Miburo

That's retarded. Like seriously, fucking retarded.

If four people see an accident differently, that doesn't change anything about how the accident actually happened. You don't need to see an atom for it to exist. A person's perspective doesn't change reality.

If you look around and think some magical invisible friend exists, then you're just an idiot. Because nothing in reality actually constitutes as evidence for such a claim. You're just being stupid. It really is that simple.

Demi-God

Nu-uh Mibs. I was totally thinking about Narnia while I was cleaning my wardrobe, long story short, Aslan stole my shoes.

kael03

What is "that you are capable of breathing on your own"?

You're still an idiot, I see. And your viewpoint is that of an idiot. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to drop my intelligence just so you can claim to be right about something in your life.

Human Rasengan

still missing the idea.. nah I don't think so.. you know exactly what I mean and understand the level that I'm talking about... you just choose to overlook it for sake of shits n giggles.

What's real for one person may not "may " being the key word be the same for another individual. If all 4 persons were to give an account as to what happened their accounts as to what happened "may" vary to some extent. each is right of their account of reality.

Also you missed the point of trying to measure something.. an atom can't be located until it's focused upon .. or that is at least what I gathered.


I would like to pose a question tho.. What was before the big bang.. whatever caused the universe to be had to have a thought or focus of concentration.. some intent set those bodies in motion.. some may see it as just an expression of quantum physics others may see it as an act of God.

But long story short no-one can prove or disprove God ( higher being or consciousness)

You're entitled to your opinion .. however maybe it's not dropping to my level so much as just coming to grips with reality... pun intended!

__________________
for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

The power of despair is great in you.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlzx4...&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3qkz4WfOto

LOL I'M DYING BACK HERE

Demi-God

Just because something isn't "real" for one person as it may be for another, doesn't make the delusions of that person valid in any way shape or form.

As for disproving God, there is nothing to disprove, the burden of proof is with the believers and the claim that "you can't disprove it, thus it's an option" isn't a very good one. As for the Big Bang question, just because some may see it as an act of God, it does not make it so, please understand this. I could choose to see it as the results of a farting unicorn but that does not make it a form of reality unless I have evidence to back it up.

Your 4 witness accident thing is flawed. It depends on how much they vary, if for example one witness saw one side of the car while another saw the other side, then yes, they will be both talking about the same accident albeit different accounts of it. But it's still the same accident and if anybody was standing in the same position as either of those guys then they would be able to witness that same thing... because it's there.

Now, if one of those guys says that they saw a fart propelled unicorn fly out of the windshield and nobody else could see it, sure it may be reality for that person because they might have deluded themselves into believing it (shock, psychological problems and various other things could have taken place), but if there's no evidence suggesting it's real nor is it observable in any sense by others, then nein.

Miburo

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Because of that understanding, I can say it's stupid. Or, at the very least, completely useless from a functional perspective.
No, they're not each right. They might not by lying, they might earnestly believe what they saw, but they can still be completely wrong when it comes to what actually happened. (Edit: Arty addressed this better than me. I was operating as if 'different' implied contradicting claims. AND he drew a fucking farting unicorn. Awesome.)

If you and I are watching a magic trick and you come to the conclusion that it's actually magic and not a slight of hand we just witnessed, while I think it is not magic and just a slight of hand, one of us is wrong. It's either actually magic or just a trick. Since every magic trick ever isn't really magic, and we're aware that there are ways to trick people with slight of hands and whatnot, the logical conclusion is that it's not actual wizard type magic shit.
That doesn't mean it doesn't exist until we focus on it. At all, in any way. "Focusing" on something won't make it exist. You cannot will things into existence. Hell, you can barely form coherent thoughts. Start with the small stuff first...

I dunno. Not really awesome at that type of physics, or any type of physics that doesn't involve off-balancing and then slamming the fuck outta someone. I think, according to the big bang scientific theory, that it's suppose to be some sort of singularity, and it wouldn't actually be 'before' in the sense that there was no actual time until the big bang. But, like I said, not my area of expertise.

What I am pretty decent at is logic. And assuming supernatural omnipotent beings exist because you're too much of a tool to simply admit you don't know without bullshitting some explanation that boils down to "goddiditlololol" isn't fucking logical in any way.

And like ACt already pointed out, we're talking about god as some sort of supernatural being. If you want to call something else god to suggest god exists, then go right ahead. That's either stupid or dishonest, and you deserve to be made fun of if that's what you're going to do.

Luckily, I understand how basic logic works. Meaning I know that the burden of proof falls on anyone saying God exists, not those justifiably skeptical of groundless claims. No need to disprove something that hasn't even been proven.

Human Rasengan

I can't prove with physical evidence that there is a God but what I can do is list things that I consider intervention in ones life where the outcome is highly unlikely such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU6Nx5wFzpM

Now there is a scientific and mathematical equation that would give the same outcome.. but for everything to line up in the manner it does .. it's highly unlikly.. but there you have it.. something seemingly impossible.. being possible.

Belief and faith require on some level things that can't be explained in normal terms or is at an un-attainable level of human knowledge that it borders the supernatural.

I believe in a force that has a design to things and science to me bridges that gap by there being an order to the universe.. gravity, potential an kinetic energy and so forth all have laws or rules.. who or what set these boundaries.. and if something set a boundary.. then surely it can counter that boundary since it put it in place
God as a supernatural being.. if you want to take that God is a man floating on a cloud then no that's not ever gonna be proven .. unless we actually witness it. the overall view of God in this manner is no more accurate than the earth being flat vs round people believed that the earth was flat until it was proven otherwise . Describing God on your terms to fit a definition that's shown to be false .. well that will forever be wrong .. but as knowledge increases why can't the definition of god progress in the same manner of the truth of the earth being flat got redefined as round.

At one point in time atoms , particles electrons and neutrons were the smallest building blocks of matter .. but since then we learned that there's quarks so now the definition of the smallest building block has changed

Time is just something we came up with to make life for us easier.. there's no such thing as the past or the future.. there's on the present.. but somehow we can look out across the stars and see something that happened years ago.. if it works in one direction why isn't it possible to see the future if everything exists in the here and now.

Would a being on the event horizon of the big bang exist at the same time as something in the wake of the bang..

There's just somethings we simply don't have the answers to.. but from science one can learn that a belief or hypothesis can one day be considered a reality.

Not here to preach or convert anyone .. All i can do is state what straws I grasped at that leads me to believe in a God somewhere

__________________
for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

The power of despair is great in you.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlzx4...&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3qkz4WfOto

LOL I'M DYING BACK HERE

Miburo

You are incredibly stupid. It's actually pretty amazing how you can cram so much stupid into every post you make. Really, every single thing you say is illogical and silly.

I'm using the same definition as the majority of people on the planet use to describe god. Yes, intelligent people adjust their stances on things as new information becomes available. There is a past and a future, it's not "made up." Your belief in some "God" isn't scientific, you dolt. And a dude surviving a car crash isn't impossible, which is clearly demonstrated by it happening. Arguments from ignorance aren't logical, they're stupid.

kael03

Then you have no logical stance to argue with, and therefore are wrong.

So your proof is a youtube video? Way to be stupid.

Bullshit. You're trying to give opinions as facts to convert people into believing in a God.

Those straws are logical fallacies created to justify the existence of unexplained phenomena by citing an all powerful deity is pulling the strings of the universe, when science and reason have proven to the contrary.


<< Living proof of this, right here. Especially with the circumstances behind my crash.

ACt

Wow. 4 people see a car crash at different angles, each come up with a slightly different account of the incident and therefore, god exists. Allow me to rebut:

Did you know some people don't like the taste of chocolate? Therefore, god does not exist.

Anyway, let's break down your example easily. Let's say that this car crash is indeed the supposed evidence of God. Four people few it, two see god and two do not. Now, what is the most logical move, to turn away, walk down the street and think "wow, god exists", or to go to the accident, take in other views of the wreck, talk to the other people and try and piece together from as much information as possible and decipher what happened and why people came out with different interpretations.

Guess which method you use and which method ends up coming away with no evidence of god. By your very example, four views out of what could be infinite is not enough. Therefore, as crystal as the witnesses perceptions are, they are not complete or the whole story and cannot be used fully to form anything that is the truth. That's why cops usually interview all witnesses.

Whoa... the note is not real? Are you god?

__________________
It's amazing to me that, unlike in the real world, people on the internet will wear "everyone thinks I'm a moron" as a badge of honour.

Human Rasengan

Faith and Belief are not based on fact .. such is there nature

but back on track to the topic at hand.. there does seem to be a repetitive savior theme .. repeated in different cultures.. and most creation myths involve a "great flood and certain patterns Cristian trinity, Hindu, or Buddhist godhead.. ect.

It would be interesting to look at all the similarities that occur in the worlds most predominant religions.

oh and a quick Ps to the god talk.. some people see god as a blob in the sky, or a ball of light, a man on the cloud , a man of flesh and bone , or a man with knowledge of science in another religion... how a person defines God would also affect any discussion on the matter so kinda take into account that everyone might not define God as you do and therefore some can claim his/her/it's existence when others cannot based upon how they Define God

__________________
for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

The power of despair is great in you.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlzx4...&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3qkz4WfOto

LOL I'M DYING BACK HERE

Miburo

I don't actually define God, because I'm not making a claim with my lack of belief. I'm responding to other claims with logically justified skepticism, and talking in general terms for the sake of simplicity. Since the vast majority of people hold religious beliefs where god is defined as a supernatural omnipotent being of some kind, I use the term that is most likely to imply when speaking non-specifically.

You're not making an intelligent point here. If you want to talk about a different definition of god, then define it and I'll evaluate the claim of it's existence. The fact that you admit that faith isn't based on reason should make you shut the fuck up though. I'm saying that shit isn't logical. You agree and cannot prove your stance logically. There isn't anything left to discuss regarding the matter.

ACt

I disagree - faith and belief are completely based on facts. Some are misguided, some are unexplained, some are wrong, but they are facts. Example: The Bible. Foundation for the Christian belief system. It is a fact that it exists, was written by people who believe in god, holds may tales and legends borrowed, fabricated, altered, etc and is the basis for many people's faith.

Some people see jesus in the clouds and thus believe in god. That's another fact - there can indeed be clouds that look like jesus.

Some people believe god exists because of the goodness in mankind. Another fact.

Belief is indeed routed in facts, or perhaps just in the interpretation of them. Otherwise, people would never feel so strongly about it. Your own example about different perceptions of one incident actually a good parable for religious belief - take one view and never go further with it - but it is still based on a fact. I can't see any reason someone would choose to defend or uphold something that has literally no basis in the real world.

As for similarities in religion, go back and read about the switch from polytheism to (briefly) monotheism in ancient Egypt. You may notice at the time that the people who would become the jews were slaves and knowing that Christianity and Islam have very similar geographical and cultural developments, you'll realize that one pharaoh's brief stint in one god has its roots there.

__________________
It's amazing to me that, unlike in the real world, people on the internet will wear "everyone thinks I'm a moron" as a badge of honour.

kael03

And thus is the reason behind their nature being stupid and illogical.

Christ, Mohammed, etc. were all living people. There is documented evidence to their existence. Christ was a Jewish extremist, that's his claim to fame. Mohammed, born over 500 years after Christ was martyred, was a military leader that conquered several Arabic cities like Mecca and Medina.

If you want a royal mindfuck about religions, the Muslims have an empty tomb next to Mohammed's designated specifically for Christ.

There is evidence of "great floods" happening in the past 10 millennia due to the end of the most recent ice age, volcanic eruptions, comets/meteor strikes, etc. Nothing to say "an all powerful god" had a hand in it. All the "great flood" myth shows is that natural disasters, that couldn't be explained at the time, was given a "divine instigator". This leads me back to my point about "unexplainable coincidences given divine origins to appease the urge to understand the unexplained."

Other than they're the same fucking things? Seriously, go read the Quran and the Bible. They say the same thing. The Torah is actually the first five books of the Old Testament (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy).

Due to the "liquid" nature of "God", it is highly illogical that there is one. If there was a "God", his form wouldn't be ever-changing from person to person.

Miburo

I would use the 'or perhaps just the interpretation of them' definition over saying they're completely based on facts. It's a combination of shitty reasoning plus facts, not just facts. Though I agree with what you are saying, most people likely believe their beliefs are rational.

Which is the only thing I really have a problem with when it comes to this shit. I don't care if people believe some stupid shit, so long as they'll just admit it doesn't make logical sense. And I don't think that's too much to ask either. I have beliefs that don't make perfect logical sense. Like I won't break a chick's face for things I'd break a dude's face for without hesitation. Even if he is the skinniest, unmanliest, weakest dude ever. So it's got nothing to do with chick's being physically inferior to men or anything, I don't give a shit if it pisses other people off, I think chicks should be treated equally, etc. I'll admit that it really doesn't make too much sense. But I still wouldn't break a chick's face even if she does something I'd break a dude's face for.

I just man up, say it doesn't make sense, completely understand people saying it doesn't make sense, don't try to argue it as something that can be applied to anyone other than myself, etc. Because I don't suck. If people would just be more like me and also not suck then I'd be happy. But no, they have to be stupid and think their shit actually makes sense. I hate that. Fucking retards.