Haven't seen this here: Neutrinos faster than light

manta · 09-25-2011, 01:54 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44629271...1#.Tn7A2-z66Rc

Quote:

GENEVA — A pillar of physics — that nothing can go faster than the speed of light — appears to be smashed by an oddball subatomic particle that has apparently made a giant end run around Albert Einstein's theories.

Scientists at the world's largest physics lab said Thursday they have clocked neutrinos traveling faster than light. That's something that according to Einstein's 1905 special theory of relativity — the famous E (equals) mc2 equation — just doesn't happen.

"The feeling that most people have is this can't be right, this can't be real," said James Gillies, a spokesman for the European Organization for Nuclear Research. The organization, known as CERN, hosted part of the experiment, which is unrelated to the massive $10 billion Large Hadron Collider also located at the site.

Gillies told The Associated Press that the readings have so astounded researchers that they are asking others to independently verify the measurements before claiming an actual discovery.
albert einstein
AP
This undated file photo shows famed physicist Albert Einstein, whose special theory of relativity —the famous E (equals) mc2 equation —could be at risk.

"They are inviting the broader physics community to look at what they've done and really scrutinize it in great detail, and ideally for someone elsewhere in the world to repeat the measurements," he said Thursday.

Scientists at the competing Fermilab in Chicago have promised to start such work immediately.

"It's a shock," said Fermilab head theoretician Stephen Parke, who was not part of the research in Geneva. "It's going to cause us problems, no doubt about that — if it's true."

The Chicago team had similar faster-than-light results in 2007, but those came with a giant margin of error that undercut its scientific significance.

Other outside scientists expressed skepticism at CERN's claim that the neutrinos — one of the strangest well-known particles in physics — were observed smashing past the cosmic speed barrier of 186,282 miles per second (299,792 kilometers per second).

University of Maryland physics department Chairman Drew Baden called it "a flying carpet," something that was too fantastic to be believable.

CERN says a neutrino beam fired from a particle accelerator near Geneva to a lab 454 miles (730 kilometers) away in Italy traveled 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light. Scientists calculated the margin of error at just 10 nanoseconds, making the difference statistically significant. But given the enormous implications of the find, they still spent months checking and rechecking their results to make sure there were no flaws in the experiment.

"We have not found any instrumental effect that could explain the result of the measurement," said Antonio Ereditato, a physicist at the University of Bern, Switzerland, who was involved in the experiment known as OPERA.

The researchers are now looking to the United States and Japan to confirm the results.

A similar neutrino experiment at Fermilab near Chicago would be capable of running the tests, said Stavros Katsanevas, the deputy director of France's National Institute for Nuclear and Particle Physics Research. The institute collaborated with Italy's Gran Sasso National Laboratory for the experiment at CERN.

Katsanevas said help could also come from the T2K experiment in Japan, though that is currently on hold after the country's devastating March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

Scientists agree if the results are confirmed, that it would force a fundamental rethink of the laws of nature.

Einstein's special relativity theory that says energy equals mass times the speed of light squared underlies "pretty much everything in modern physics," said John Ellis, a theoretical physicist at CERN who was not involved in the experiment. "It has worked perfectly up until now."

He cautioned that the neutrino researchers would have to explain why similar results weren't detected before.

"This would be such a sensational discovery if it were true that one has to treat it extremely carefully," said Ellis.

I'm lost on this.

stubborn_d0nkey · 09-25-2011, 08:29 AM

I'm speechless (so its a good thing I could type this out).

**Mal** · 09-25-2011, 04:12 PM

ACt · 09-25-2011, 04:46 PM

Hehe.

Anyway, so far as I've heard, neutrinos are kinda crazy anyway (even in terms of quantum mechanics) so there is a lot of speculation that this may be refuted. Hell, a neutrino can pass through the earth without hitting anything. I'm not certain, but I don't know that any other particle can do that. With all that uncertainty, there are legitimate questions if anyone will be able to repeat this result.

And hey, even if it does, it is such a small difference that reorganizing physics can't be that hard. Sure, Einstein may be wrong, but then, he did everything as thought experiments without machinery. And his work lasted over 100 years already. Still impressive.

Still, exciting times for physics if it pans out.

09-25-2011, 04:12 PM	#3
Mal Scotch Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,098 Thanks: 12,844 Thanked 10,811 Times in 3,836 Posts	Re: Haven't seen this here: Neutrinos faster than light

09-25-2011, 04:46 PM	#4
ACt Heart Wizard Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Halls of Irreverence Posts: 3,249 Thanks: 5,321 Thanked 18,674 Times in 4,842 Posts	Re: Haven't seen this here: Neutrinos faster than light Hehe. Anyway, so far as I've heard, neutrinos are kinda crazy anyway (even in terms of quantum mechanics) so there is a lot of speculation that this may be refuted. Hell, a neutrino can pass through the earth without hitting anything. I'm not certain, but I don't know that any other particle can do that. With all that uncertainty, there are legitimate questions if anyone will be able to repeat this result. And hey, even if it does, it is such a small difference that reorganizing physics can't be that hard. Sure, Einstein may be wrong, but then, he did everything as thought experiments without machinery. And his work lasted over 100 years already. Still impressive. Still, exciting times for physics if it pans out. __________________ It's amazing to me that, unlike in the real world, people on the internet will wear "everyone thinks I'm a moron" as a badge of honour.

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