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Old 10-27-2011, 06:01 PM   #16
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

^ It's sad how right you are. Thank you num for this post, just finished reading through. I'll probably read it a few more times so I understand it better.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:44 PM   #17
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

Awesome job Num! My recent thread was supposed to be something like this (it wouldn't have been as good as this, not even remotely) but I just couldn't be bothered to do it, so I switched the thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
Yoiu did good Numinous but you know change is slow so be patient ..even I will try to catch myself on a few of these as I go along

you just gotta give me a break on the Naruto is senju thing cuz without it I'm powerless..lol
This fits, right? Helping ya learn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
viii. Appeal to consequences
Occurs when someone appeals to the consequences of a certain action in an attempt to derail the argument.

Example: “Naruto is a Senju, because if he isn’t then any upcoming fight between Sasuke and Naruto won’t be as symbolic.”
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Quotes for noobs (learn how to break up a quote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future
So you can post the second bit and i shouldnt be allowed to if i dont tell you? Why be so rude?

Anyways, here is a quotes for noobs guide


1. A basic quote

[*QUOTE][*/QUOTE]

(the * need to be removed for it to work, I put them in so you can see the text) is a basic quote that just wraps something in a quote without saying who quoted it who quoted so

[*QUOTE]this is a quote[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
this is a quote

Edit: there is a button for this, it looks like a speech bubble. If you select text and then press the button the selected text will automatically be wrapped with the quote tag


2. A quote that says who said it

[*QUOTE=who said it][*/QUOTE] this adds who said the post, manually putting that there can be useful when quoting something external. Example:

[*QUOTE=Mangastream]Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangastream
Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us
3. A quote that says who said it and links to the post where it was said

[*QUOTE=who said it;X][*/QUOTE]

Where X is the post number.

For the post that i originally quoted it would look like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]

That is what you get when you press the quote button.

4. Breaking up a quote

Now that you know how quotes work it all boils down to preference, how you want it to look like and how you want to do it.

One way of doing it is copying the latter part of the original quote [*/QUOTE] and then pasting it after each section you break up, write your reply, choose the text you want then paste it after that portion, repeat till you finish the go back and copy then paste the first part of the text at the beginning of each portion of text. Of course you can immediately copy and paste both parts of a poste so that you dont forget one in the end.

The end result would be something like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4



Which without any * would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4


Another way of doing it would be to cut and paste the second part of the quote tag after the first section of text you want to seperate then write your reply select the second part and hit he quote button (it looks like a text bubble),if you do that without anything else the end result would be

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4

Which would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4

To make it like the previous example (which wpuld be preferred, though not necessary ) copy the part that says who posted with the link to the post and paste it accordingly to the proper part in each first half of each quote tag. In my I would copy =minato uchiha;2118164 and paste it where the # is
[*QUOTE#] to get [*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] (of course with the * removed)


Of course you can use any other method you like to get to the end result, but now that you know what the end rwsult looks like I think there shouldnt be any problems

Last edited by stubborn_d0nkey; 10-27-2011 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:21 AM   #18
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

This thread is missing one major logical fallacy.

No idea what you'd prefer to call it, but the idea that Tobi has to be___________ because he looks like that person or has the same hairstyle. This is a story where every ninja that graduates from Konoha knows how to do the Transformation Jutsu.

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Old 10-28-2011, 12:07 PM   #19
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

Learned all of this in grade school, even though I forgot as soon as I went to middle school. Still a refreshing bit of information, thanks Num, eye feelz smarturds alreadie
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:15 PM   #20
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emissary of Justice View Post
This thread is missing one major logical fallacy.

No idea what you'd prefer to call it, but the idea that Tobi has to be___________ because he looks like that person or has the same hairstyle. This is a story where every ninja that graduates from Konoha knows how to do the Transformation Jutsu.

But it's there.

Quote:
xix. Incomplete/inconsistent comparison
Occurs when someone makes a comparison but it’s incomplete to be valid, either by lack of information or when the method of comparison is inconsistent.

Example: “Tobi and Obito are both Uchiha and have spiky hair, so they’re one and the same”
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Old 10-30-2011, 01:27 AM   #21
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

Thanks Numinous. One problem though, how will the dumb asses interpret?
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Old 10-30-2011, 01:49 AM   #22
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowblade View Post
Thanks Numinous. One problem though, how will the dumb asses interpret?
"lolfags!!!!111one!" or "RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!11"
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:30 PM   #23
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowblade
Thanks Numinous. One problem though, how will the dumb asses interpret?
"lolfags!!!!111one!" or "RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!11"
Unfortunately, they don't even read, much less interpret.

And yes, it's a shameless bump before this goes to page 2.
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:21 AM   #24
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

I like logic and hate stupid shit. So I approve of this thread. Stuck. Fuck yeah.
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:56 PM   #25
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

Gee, ur dictating whats Logical and whats not. Im not surprised...

Problem though.. I skimmed through and found this and couldnt help but notice u wrote some good examples of correct logic. However, then u went and presented something I said as Illogical by putting examples that don't even pertain to my original Idea, only the first example.

Here...

Quote:
One would think people would be wiser to avoid such a silly fallacy, but some just seem to love it. Here’s an example:

A Rinnegan user was dubbed the 7th Path
The 7th Realm is a step to reach Buddhahood
Therefore, Rinnegan users can reach Buddhahood
firts example is canon based:
1. The manga states that the RG user (nagato, madara) is the 7th path/pain/realm with the 7th power of Gedo Rinne Tensai.http://www.mangareader.net/93-454-1/...apter-449.html
Thats canon, not some conclusion based on logic or reason.

second example is based off the natural cycle of 10 realms rebirth and is in no way incorrect.http://www.sgi-uk.org/index.php/buddhism/tenworlds
2. "The 7th realm is a step to reach Buddhahood" is true in the beliefs of some Buddhist practices. the 7th realm is on the way to 10 or the 1rst on the way as well with the 4 nobles realms. Its how the realms work. One keeps reaching higher levels until Buddhhood is attained at in the final realm/path/world.

3. RG users can reach buddhahood If, Kishi lets them because its his manga and he can have naruto reach buddahood if he wants because its a fictional story where almost anything can happen.

Whats worse is even without the consideration of kishi having a RG user reach buddahood through the final three paths because its a fictional story and he can do what he wishes.
The Idea is based on logic in the first place.

:The RG wielder is the 7th realm, the first realm of the 4 more noble realms to reaching buddahood.
:the 7th realm is based on,
Quote:
+ Learning about life and oneself from others and from existing knowledge.

- Can lead to self-centredness and separation from others. In the Lotus Sutra people of Learning and Realization were taught they could only enter the realm of Buddhahood through faith.
Reaching the next realm to buddahood through faith... the same thing nagato finally had after being self centered and trying to bring pain to the world.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-453-18...apter-448.html
"naruto, I will believe in u". Nagato put faith in naruto which is whats required.

:Kishi is clearly basing his realms off of the Buddhist practice of "10 worlds rebirth" as shown by the RG user, 7th realm nagato attaining his level of 7th realm by putting faith in naruto which then allowed him to use the 7th realms ability (Gedo Rinne Tensai).

:By simple deduction of how kishi writes. Kishi powering up his doujutsu after maxing them out like the SG that has had 3 levels now. And kishi already using the 7th realm which is one of the noble realms and part of the 10 realms of rebirth. Its highly likely that kishi could power up the RG 3 more paths to 10, from 7.

Yea, explain to me how thats illogical... Please, I gotta hear this one.
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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Old 11-04-2011, 06:41 PM   #26
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

Ugh.

In that example it's not about stating that the premises are illogical. It's stating that the conclusion drawn from the premises doesn't logically follow. So the bulk of your post refutes jack shit, since the premises are assumed to be true in the example anyway. Look:

A = B
C = D
∴A = D

That isn't logical unless B = C, which isn't demonstrated in the premises. Making it a faulty argument. It's illogical because it's a goddamn example of a logical fallacy. Don't be such a goddamn wussbag by taking a example of a logical fallacy personally and then try to prove a logical fallacy to not be illogical like some butthurt retard. That's just stupid, even for you.


Edit: @Num and whoever else- Don't respond to the actual retarded shit in his post, just note that it was an example and he's being a pansy for taking it personally. Because, holy shit. What a dumbass.
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:00 PM   #27
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Ugh.

In that example it's not about stating that the premises are illogical. It's stating that the conclusion drawn from the premises doesn't logically follow. So the bulk of your post refutes jack shit, since the premises are assumed to be true in the example anyway. Look:

A = B
C = D
∴A = D

That isn't logical unless B = C, which isn't demonstrated in the premises. Making it a faulty argument. It's illogical because it's a goddamn example of a logical fallacy. Don't be such a goddamn wussbag by taking a example of a logical fallacy personally and then try to prove a logical fallacy to not be illogical like some butthurt retard. That's just stupid, even for you.


Edit: @Num and whoever else- Don't respond to the actual retarded shit in his post, just note that it was an example and he's being a pansy for taking it personally. Because, holy shit. What a dumbass.
If u were'nt illiterate u wouldve read enough of my post to know the premises Numi posted were not mine, but his. Thats what numi does!! He posts his idea of ur idea to make it look completely ridiculous.

And although I didn't post my premise in order in my previous post, if u at least read the manga, have an IQ of 16 and read my post then u could see what conclusion I'm drawing has no fallacy.

EDIT: Im gone post again so I can put it in order for ya....
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:23 PM   #28
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
If u were'nt illiterate u wouldve read enough of my post to know the premises Numi posted were not mine, but his. Thats what numi does!! He posts his idea of ur idea to make it look completely ridiculous.

And although I didn't post my premise in order in my previous post, if u at least read the manga, have an IQ of 16 and read my post then u could see what conclusion I'm drawing has no fallacy.

EDIT: Im gone post again so I can put it in order for ya....
Here:

Quote:
:The RG wielder (nagato) is only the 7th realm.
:Out of the ten realms, Theres still 3 more realms of rebirth kishi can draw upon to develop the RG in another character (madara).
:Kishi could have the RG reach the final 3 realms of ten with madara wielding it(conclusion)
If ya can't somewhat understand that then w/e.....
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

Last edited by Konnaha_yellow_flash; 11-05-2011 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:00 PM   #29
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

Wow, KYF, just... wow. You get so butthurt over a damn example? I was not proving or disproving anyone's point, I'm making an example of a logical fallacy, which is universal since logic is universal, so nobody can't dictate it. Not me, not you, NOBODY.

I merely posted what makes logical arguments and translated it to Naruto terms so everyone in this section can comprehend it. Nothing more, nothing less. So, instead of making such a spectacle, why don't you read it properly?
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:48 PM   #30
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Re: Technical Guide to Form Arguments Logically

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Wow, KYF, just... wow. You get so butthurt over a damn example? I was not proving or disproving anyone's point, I'm making an example of a logical fallacy, which is universal since logic is universal, so nobody can't dictate it. Not me, not you, NOBODY.

I merely posted what makes logical arguments and translated it to Naruto terms so everyone in this section can comprehend it. Nothing more, nothing less. So, instead of making such a spectacle, why don't you read it properly?
So u were'nt arguing with me a couple weeks ago about the "ten realms" theory? And u didnt use it as an example as an illogical argument?
Now if u didn't misconstrue the hell out of one of my ideas then post it as an example of fallacy, I wouldn't of said a thing. However, again, u did so don't act like u weren't trying to take a shot at me.

EDIT:Butt hurt? U made this whole thread due to the fact u couldn't disprove red heads aren't uzumaki in origin in some way or another.
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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