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Old 11-21-2011, 09:56 PM   #1
almightywood
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ET zombie state

I came up with a theory in the blogs on this site that imho explains the varying states that ET zombies come back in:

There are about 4 parts to edo tensai, but only 2 are part of the actual jutsu.

The 2 that are part of the actual jutsu are activation and maintenance.

In the activation stage the soul is called which then creates it's body. In other words the state of the body is determined by the soul.

In maintenance stage the body and soul are guarded so that neither are injured.



The other 2 parts of the jutsu (that aren't really part of the jutsu) are the fuuma tags which grant the control over the zombie, and kuchiyose edo tensai which is used to summon the zombies to the battlefield.


I came to this conclusion most notably by the conditions of Itachi Uchiha, and Nagato Uzumaki.

Itachi Uchiha is the example I am using to represent the one side, though many others could also fit the bill. The differences with Nagato are the key points in this theory.

Itachi had a debilitating disease that lasted for a couple years and contributed greatly to his death, yet has shown no evidence of it since resurrection.

Nagato pushed himself and used up so much chakra that it changed his hair color and killed himself, yet he revived short of chakra.

Now we have two instances of people, one revived with what was basically his death wound, and one that wasn't.

There has to be something different about the injuries in order for one to appear and the other not.

My thought is that et doesn't revive "maladies" of the soul. A disease is definitely not a malady of the soul, but a chakra shortage on the other hand....

Now obviously there are some physical maladies that aren't restored, such as Nagato's feet. So what determines the condition of the body upon return.

My thought was that it had to be the soul itself, Kabuto has never seen half of the people he summoned, so it couldn't go off what he thinks. It can't just ask the zombie how it wants to be, so I think it goes off of subconscious self-image.

Having explained my logic, I will now reiterate the parts of the (actual) jutsu:
The 2 that are part of the actual jutsu are activation and maintenance.

In the activation stage the soul is called which then creates it's body. In other words the state of the body is determined by the soul.

In maintenance stage the body and soul are guarded so that neither are injured.
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Old 11-22-2011, 05:04 AM   #2
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Re: ET zombie state

^Interesting .
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:51 PM   #3
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Re: ET zombie state

I do believe that Itachi's so called "disease" was nothing more then over use of sasanoo at this point in the manga. Tobi was BSing IMO.

The spitting up blood is a side effect of over using sasanoo which sasuke demonstrated himself against danzou. And, since itachi had a Invincible, Immortal Edo body. His MS jutsus side effects no longer phase him making the use of the MS in Edo state like a EMS. Because no matter how much Itachi uses his MS his eyes wont deteriorate any further. No matter how many time he uses amaterasu or tsukuyomi he won't be left vulnerable in pain. No matter how much itachi uses sasanoo. His body won't be effected making his "disease" null IMO.

Nagato was brought back in such a shit state as he was before he died because the syncing of Gedo Mazo must take its toll on the soul as much as the body IMO. Notice that once nagato got a portion of the hachibis chakra his body was revitalized.
But, if the state of the soul is what determines the state of the body then the spiritual energy of the hachibi must have revitalized his soul for his body to revitalize, right?
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Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
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then an illusion....


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Old 11-23-2011, 12:15 AM   #4
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Re: ET zombie state

When would have Itachi have needed to use Susanoo though? I guess against Madara/tobi , but to the point where he can't stand in the rain?

Idk, I think he had something wrong with him, of course the MS techs didn't help him though.
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:48 PM   #5
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Re: ET zombie state

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senkradlol View Post
When would have Itachi have needed to use Susanoo though? I guess against Madara/tobi , but to the point where he can't stand in the rain?

Idk, I think he had something wrong with him, of course the MS techs didn't help him though.
Itachis sasanoo is supped up with three spiritual equitments.

1. The Sword of Totsuka the seals away the enemy in a drunken genjutsu forever.

2. The Yata Mirror that can deflect ANY attack!

3. The Yashi Magnatama that allows itachi to through huge tomoe shurikan and maybe even something else.

IMO, by first having to complete his sasanoo then go around, find and add these equipments itachi over used his sasanoo which is why he was spiting up blood and acting weak just as sasuke did.
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

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And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:39 PM   #6
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Re: ET zombie state

True true, he may have needed to use it to gain 1 then have to use it again to gain the others, ok ok
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:12 PM   #7
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Re: ET zombie state

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
I do believe that Itachi's so called "disease" was nothing more then over use of sasanoo at this point in the manga. Tobi was BSing IMO.

The spitting up blood is a side effect of over using sasanoo which sasuke demonstrated himself against danzou. And, since itachi had a Invincible, Immortal Edo body. His MS jutsus side effects no longer phase him making the use of the MS in Edo state like a EMS. Because no matter how much Itachi uses his MS his eyes wont deteriorate any further. No matter how many time he uses amaterasu or tsukuyomi he won't be left vulnerable in pain. No matter how much itachi uses sasanoo. His body won't be effected making his "disease" null IMO.

Nagato was brought back in such a shit state as he was before he died because the syncing of Gedo Mazo must take its toll on the soul as much as the body IMO. Notice that once nagato got a portion of the hachibis chakra his body was revitalized.
But, if the state of the soul is what determines the state of the body then the spiritual energy of the hachibi must have revitalized his soul for his body to revitalize, right?
Pretty much that, yes.

Chakra is part spiritual energy, and part physical energy. Dojutsu seem to do better with spiritual energy, after all, that's what the Uchiha clan is supposed to have a lot of. This seems to indicate that that's what Nagato was drained of.

Last edited by almightywood; 11-23-2011 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:31 PM   #8
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Re: ET zombie state

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
I do believe that Itachi's so called "disease" was nothing more then over use of sasanoo at this point in the manga. Tobi was BSing IMO.

The spitting up blood is a side effect of over using sasanoo which sasuke demonstrated himself against danzou. And, since itachi had a Invincible, Immortal Edo body. His MS jutsus side effects no longer phase him making the use of the MS in Edo state like a EMS. Because no matter how much Itachi uses his MS his eyes wont deteriorate any further. No matter how many time he uses amaterasu or tsukuyomi he won't be left vulnerable in pain. No matter how much itachi uses sasanoo. His body won't be effected making his "disease" null IMO.

Nagato was brought back in such a shit state as he was before he died because the syncing of Gedo Mazo must take its toll on the soul as much as the body IMO. Notice that once nagato got a portion of the hachibis chakra his body was revitalized.
But, if the state of the soul is what determines the state of the body then the spiritual energy of the hachibi must have revitalized his soul for his body to revitalize, right?

As far as as I remember at one stage Black Zetsu said, "He Poisoned Itachi".
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:45 AM   #9
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Re: ET zombie state

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Originally Posted by lionwajih View Post
As far as as I remember at one stage Black Zetsu said, "He Poisoned Itachi".
Nothing was ever said that Itachi was poisoned. Itachi was suffering from an unknown, and fatal, disease. Zetsu pointed out that Itachi seemed out of it (that could be due to Itachi holding back, too) and he was coughing up blood. Besides, who would poison him? Sasuke seems too proud (or insane) to use such tactics.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:03 PM   #10
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Re: ET zombie state

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Itachis sasanoo is supped up with three spiritual equitments.

1. The Sword of Totsuka the seals away the enemy in a drunken genjutsu forever.

2. The Yata Mirror that can deflect ANY attack!

3. The Yashi Magnatama that allows itachi to through huge tomoe shurikan and maybe even something else.

IMO, by first having to complete his sasanoo then go around, find and add these equipments itachi over used his sasanoo which is why he was spiting up blood and acting weak just as sasuke did.

I remember reading somewhere that these were the names of some buddhist religious treasures, along with susanoo, and that because of this supposedly every susanoo uses these legendary weapons. Though I can't recall where at the moment.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:58 AM   #11
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Re: ET zombie state

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Originally Posted by almightywood View Post
I remember reading somewhere that these were the names of some buddhist religious treasures, along with susanoo
The treasures that Itachi's Susano'o uses (Yata Mirror, Sword of Totsuka and the Yasaka Magatama (that Madara can also use)) are based off the three Imperial Regalia of Japan. Susano'o is also based off the Japanese deity Susano'o, who was created by the god Izanagi along with Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. None of the things are based off Buddhism, which was created in India.


Quote:
and that because of this supposedly every susanoo uses these legendary weapons. Though I can't recall where at the moment.
You would recall wrong. Itachi is the sole possessor of all three treasures. They aren't attached to all Susano'o variants. Sasuke and Madara's versions of Susano'o have not shown the Yata Mirror or the Sword of Totsuka (the sword that Sasuke used to kill Zetsu was Amaterasu manipulated into a sword form).
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Old 12-05-2011, 02:41 AM   #12
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Re: ET zombie state

We haven't seen what each of the arms of either of those susano'o do either, so since each arm has a different weapon, you can't say for sure that they aren't.

Madara having access to one of them lends creedence to the theory.

Last edited by almightywood; 12-05-2011 at 02:43 AM.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:40 AM   #13
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Re: ET zombie state

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Originally Posted by almightywood View Post
We haven't seen what each of the arms of either of those susano'o do either, so since each arm has a different weapon, you can't say for sure that they aren't.
Humm, we indeed saw what the other arms can do in Sasuke's version (bow & arrow and Susanoo blade) and Madara's (jutsu casting and Susanoo blade). The manga made it pretty clear that the user of Susanoo has to gather the regalia in order to use it (remember Zetsu commenting Orochimaru wanted the Totsuka Sword for himself?). So far only Itachi has demonstrated using the Imperial Regalia, saying that the others have it but didn't show it yet is making an argument from ignorance.

Quote:
Madara having access to one of them lends credence to the theory.
While we're on it, what's the point of your theory? You talk about the workings, but I don't see any practical point to it that the fanbase didn't figure out already. So what's new that your theory brings to the table?
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:53 AM   #14
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Re: ET zombie state

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Humm, we indeed saw what the other arms can do in Sasuke's version (bow & arrow and Susanoo blade) and Madara's (jutsu casting and Susanoo blade). The manga made it pretty clear that the user of Susanoo has to gather the regalia in order to use it (remember Zetsu commenting Orochimaru wanted the Totsuka Sword for himself?). So far only Itachi has demonstrated using the Imperial Regalia, saying that the others have it but didn't show it yet is making an argument from ignorance.



While we're on it, what's the point of your theory? You talk about the workings, but I don't see any practical point to it that the fanbase didn't figure out already. So what's new that your theory brings to the table?
We saw what two of the arms did, but if you look susano'o has more than just the two arms.

It's not an argument from ignorance, it's an argument based on the real-life (well, close enough)versions that the narutoverse ones are based on. The original theory was very well thought out and convincing, I am just not doing it justice.

My reasoning in bringing it up was that it should be no extra strain on the wielder if it is a standard part of the jutsu, as was theorized by somebody at some point, and I have yet to see anything that disproves it.

Note that I was never claiming this as my theory,, and I don't want to delve too deep into something that didn't originate from me, I was merely bringing it up as a possibility that could negate the effect I was quoting.


If you were referring to the initial post, well I have never actually seen any theory on any of several similar sites to this one that even addresses the varying states the ET zombies come back in. If you have seen another theory that addresses the differences, please link it.

Last edited by almightywood; 12-05-2011 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:45 AM   #15
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Re: ET zombie state

Quote:
We saw what two of the arms did, but if you look susano'o has more than just the two arms.
Yes, Itachi and Sasuke had Susanoo with 3 arms and Madara's has 4 arms. But there's no correlation between the Imperial Regalia and the arms.

(First) Left Arm:
  • Itachi's: Yata Mirror
  • Sasuke's: Bow
  • Madara's: Yasaka Magatama and handseals
Second Left Arm:
  • Madara's: Yasaka Magatama and handseals
First Right Arm:
  • Itachi's: Sword of Totsuka and Yasaka Magatama
  • Sasuke's: Arrows and chakra blade
  • Madara's: Yasaka Magatama, handseals and chakra blade
Second Right Arm:
  • Itachi's: Gourd
  • Sasuke's: nothing as far as I recall
  • Madara's: Yasaka Magatama, handseals and chakra blade
As you can see, all the versions of Susanoo behave differently, so just because one of the Susanoo has certain characteristics doesn't mean all the Susanoo share them.

Quote:
It's not an argument from ignorance, it's an argument based on the real-life (well, close enough)versions that the narutoverse ones are based on. The original theory was very well thought out and convincing, I am just not doing it justice.
Quote:
i. Argument from ignorance
Occurs when someone appeals to the unknown nature of the matter being argued instead of providing propositions about it.
As you can see, I'm no accusing you of making stuff up, I'm pointing out you're appealing to the lack of info on all Susanoo's techniques to make your case.
Quote:
If you were referring to the initial post, well I have never actually seen any theory on any of several similar sites to this one that even addresses the varying states the ET zombies come back in. If you have seen another theory that addresses the differences, please link it.
I won't link because indeed there's no other theory to address this issue because this is a non-issue to begin with. Brought back by Edo Tensei in their pinnacle or demise, it does not matter in the bigger picture of things, since Kabuto already demonstrated he can tinker around with the Edo Tensei. That's what makes me so puzzled about this theory, the lack of conclusion that warrants it being made.
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