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Old 12-19-2011, 06:11 AM   #46
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

I'm still wondering how ZIP Codes are "unconstitutional" and a sign of the government scamming you, HR and AW.

I thought ZIP Codes were for mailing and statistics, not government stuff, which congressional districts are for.

Now if you are to talk about the gerrymandering that happens in a lot of districts, now that would be an actually interesting topic.

For example, the infamous 4th district of Illinois, with 75% Hispanic voters, separating two districts (3rd and 5th) with 78% White voters each while strangling the 7th district with 62% Black voters. Not to talk about entire states having only 1 district.

As I said in another thread, if you are to keep the electoral college and the districts, at least do a proper gerrymandering with districts with the same amount of population and that is bound to geography, not ethnicity, color of the collar, voting preferences, among other weasels.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:02 PM   #47
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by Mal View Post
HOLY. FUCKING. SHIT.

The pursuit of knowledge can be simplified to this: That which can be proven false, cannot be true.

If you want to have a "real discussion," you must understand that discussion in the pursuit of knowledge is the only real discussion possible. Beliefs and opinions have no place in such discussion, only facts. Striving to disprove something, as Numinous has, results in exactly what you say you wanted: a real discussion.

You have your discussion, now discuss. No excuses, no whining, no opinions, just facts.
I don't like to disprove anything because once it has been done, then I am at the point where I know nothing of the subject, whereas before I knew of a possibility on the matter. My knowledge has decreased as opposed to the reverse.

The more possibilities I am acknowledging, the greater the likelihood that the truth is among them. After all, even something that has been "disproven" can end up being the truth once more information has been revealed.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:34 PM   #48
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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I don't like to disprove anything because once it has been done, then I am at the point where I know nothing of the subject, whereas before I knew of a possibility on the matter. My knowledge has decreased as opposed to the reverse.

The more possibilities I am acknowledging, the greater the likelihood that the truth is among them. After all, even something that has been "disproven" can end up being the truth once more information has been revealed.
This must the be stupidest post of someone pretending to be smart I ever seen.

Wow. Just wow.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:19 PM   #49
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by almightywood View Post
I don't like to disprove anything because once it has been done, then I am at the point where I know nothing of the subject, whereas before I knew of a possibility on the matter. My knowledge has decreased as opposed to the reverse.

The more possibilities I am acknowledging, the greater the likelihood that the truth is among them. After all, even something that has been "disproven" can end up being the truth once more information has been revealed.
Oh, I totally get this. It happens all the time in math. When I was like four, I was sitting around and came across this on a page:

1 + 1 =

I was like, "holy poop, what does that equal?!" and a door of endless possibility was open to me. I literally spent days going "1 + 1 = banana" and "1 + 1 = the square root of the hypotenuse" or "1 + 1 = why women can't drive". It was awesome. A plaything in my hands which made me feel godlike.

Then, my loser father came along and taught me "1 + 1 = 2" and from there on in, my knowledge was completely limited what with only one option for the answer to "1 + 1 =". I was SO much stupider after that day.

I mean, who cares about knowing truth and reality when you could KNOW. SO. MUCH. MORE.





















who is this douche?

Oh, and I'm just going to post this again, because I don't think those it was directed at got it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACt View Post
But gaiz - I totally heard the Us government plants a computer chip in every baby born. The nurses totally do it when they take the baby from the mother to bath when everyone's back is turned. It's so small you can't pick it up with x-rays!! They use it to track our every movement and see what we buy and read and learn and shit.

That's why it is the Us government - they are watching us!!!

I know this because A) computer chips exist. B) governments exist. C) nurses exist. D) babies exist. E) x-rays exist.

Totally plausible theory that we all believe.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:19 PM   #50
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by ACt View Post
Oh, I totally get this. It happens all the time in math. When I was like four, I was sitting around and came across this on a page:

1 + 1 =

I was like, "holy poop, what does that equal?!" and a door of endless possibility was open to me. I literally spent days going "1 + 1 = banana" and "1 + 1 = the square root of the hypotenuse" or "1 + 1 = why women can't drive". It was awesome. A plaything in my hands which made me feel godlike.

Then, my loser father came along and taught me "1 + 1 = 2" and from there on in, my knowledge was completely limited what with only one option for the answer to "1 + 1 =". I was SO much stupider after that day.

I mean, who cares about knowing truth and reality when you could KNOW. SO. MUCH. MORE.
There's a difference between the revelation of the truth and the elimination of a possibility. One is conducive to level of knowledge, the other is detrimental to it. In other words this example doesn't illustrate my point in the slightest.
Quote:
who is this douche?

Oh, and I'm just going to post this again, because I don't think those it was directed at got it:
If that was directed at me, I don't see why.
I never made any claims about this, though I did provide links about this theory of someone else's that I graciously introduced you to, and never once claimed to subscribe to.

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Old 12-19-2011, 07:01 PM   #51
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

Could you give an actual example that does illustrate this point of yours?

I could use a laugh.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:06 PM   #52
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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There's a difference between the revelation of the truth and the elimination of a possibility. One is conducive to level of knowledge, the other is detrimental to it. In other words this example doesn't illustrate my point in the slightest.
???

Hey guys, anyone want to tell me what we have when we eliminate all possibilities on a given subject?
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:12 PM   #53
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

Obviously not the truth, you close-minded simpleton.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:27 PM   #54
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

The best example I could come up with would be a hypothetical situation.

People trying to discover fire.

One claims it is heat that generates it.
Another claims it is friction.
(though both are obviously speaking in caveman grunts)

They make fire by rubbing two sticks together.
They decide that friction is what causes fire and eliminate the possibility that heat does.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:38 PM   #55
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

...you can't even form a hypothetical example correctly. Holy fuck, you're retarded.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:48 PM   #56
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by almightywood View Post
The best example I could come up with would be a hypothetical situation.

People trying to discover fire.

One claims it is heat that generates it.
Another claims it is friction.
(though both are obviously speaking in caveman grunts)

They make fire by rubbing two sticks together.
They decide that friction is what causes fire and eliminate the possibility that heat does.
Actually friction caused heat, which started the fire. You fail.

Also things can catch flame from just heat alone, with no need for friction to begin with. (Apparently you've never read the book Fahrenheit 451) From this you can actually eliminate friction as the cause. Fuck yeah, science and logic FTW!
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:55 PM   #57
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Actually friction caused heat, which started the fire. You fail.

Also things can catch flame from just heat alone, with no need for friction to begin with. (Apparently you've never read the book Fahrenheit 451) From this you can actually eliminate friction as the cause. Fuck yeah, science and logic FTW!
The fallacies of assumption that caused the improper elimination (though all their logical skills had pointed to this) is precisely the point, not evidence that it is invalid.

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Old 12-19-2011, 08:47 PM   #58
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Honestly, I rather jab sharp things in my good eye than have a one-sided discussion about inane trivialities that would involve trying to explain a complex document like the United States Constitution to people I can't confidently say possess the comprehension skills necessary to grasp Green Eggs and Ham.
Quote:
only thing going on here is the Op presented a conspiracy theory that he heard about some 10-15 years ago and presented the few things he could remember of the conspiracy. I came into the thread and realized I had heard about this CT recently as 2 months ago.. it interested me and I looked into a few things .. and realized this CT is broad and reaching.. it doesn't have just one facet. Much of this theory revolves around the Constitution and some "actions taken by the US Government that some people believe negates the USG from currently acting under the original constitution and therefor believe the current government is defunct and if it's defunct they don't have to obey laws..

Weird yea I know but the odd thing is documents and "penalties that the government has in place to combat this "movement on many fronts.
If some of you guys would spend as much time getting fucking smarter as you do posting balls out retarded shit on this forum then maybe people would actually enjoy having grown-up conversations with you and we could get some good discussions going. Just saying.
I don't post that much on here anymore and when i do it's not at al like the dumb shit I used to so if anyone wants ot see me by that first impression fine .. first impressions are lasting impressions .. but don't be so naive as to think that people can't mature.. if even slightly!

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
I'm still wondering how ZIP Codes are "unconstitutional" and a sign of the government scamming you, HR and AW.

I thought ZIP Codes were for mailing and statistics, not government stuff, which congressional districts are for.

As I said in another thread, if you are to keep the electoral college and the districts, at least do a proper gerrymandering with districts with the same amount of population and that is bound to geography, not ethnicity, color of the collar, voting preferences, among other weasels.
I'm not quite sure about the zip codes thing.. i remember seeing something about it so I knew where Op was coming form but haven't been able to find that part of the CT but if i remember it has something to do with the reformation of the US code of 1954but when i do I will post it but here are some things about this CT that really struck me and some of it has to do with the constitution.

All according to the theory that is

Some specific event in U.S. history, such as the Civil War, the Great Depression, or the passage of some national debt threshold, actually caused the United States to cease to exist under the Constitution; all actions in the name of the U.S. government since that event are part of a conspiracy by those in power to retain the appearance of constitutional authority.

The gold fringe around the American flag, as displayed in many federal courts, designates them as Admiralty courts, which cannot hear other kinds of cases, or signal that the court is operating under martial law.[3] In United States v. Greenstreet, the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas noted: "Defendant Greenstreet's response to Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment identifies this Court as an 'Admiralty Court' without further discussing his allegation. If his reference is to be construed as a jurisdictional challenge, his motion is denied. Others have attempted to persuade the judiciary that fringe on an American flag denotes a court of admiralty. In light of the fact that this Court has such a flag in its courtroom, the issue is addressed. The concept behind the theory the proponent asserts is that if a courtroom is adorned with a flag which happens to be fringed around the edges, such decor indicates that the court is one of admiralty jurisdiction exclusively.


The PRA [the Paperwork Reduction Act] requires that all government agencies display valid OMB control numbers and certain disclosures directly on all information collection forms that the public is requested to file. [The defendant's] sole defense was he was not required to file an IRS Form 1040 because it displays an invalid OMB control number. Government officials knew that if the case went to trial, it would expose the fraudulent, counterfeit 1040. They also must have known that a trial would expose the ongoing conspiracy between OMB and IRS to publish 1040 forms each year that those agencies knew were in violation of the PRA. That would raise the issue that the Form 1040, with its invalid control number, is being used by the Government to cover up the underlying constitutional tort -- that is, the enforcement of a direct, unapportioned tax on the labor of every working man, women and child in America

The contention that paper money is illegal has been consistently rejected. … Congress has exercised this power by delegation to the federal reserve system. 12 U.S.C. section 411. Federal reserve notes are legal tender for all debts, including taxes. 31 U.S.C. section 392 [now 31 U.S.C. § 5103]; Milam v. U.S. 524 F.2d 629 (9th Cir. 1974). The United States Constitution, art. 1, section 10, 'prohibits the states from declaring legal tender anything other than gold or silver.


THe movement has roots in Occupy walstreet, the Tea party( since most of this has to do with unfair taxation) the redemption movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement Sovereign citizens Movement and many other small groups are all lumped into a domestic terrorist group monitored by the FB and persecuted by the IRS.

Once again these aren't my views but that of a sympathizer of the CT.. for the sake of discussion I will highlight parts of the CT in a "for" stance.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:09 PM   #59
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Obviously not the truth, you close-minded simpleton.
He even thanked this post. I don't even... we may need a sarcasm font.

Quote:
Originally Posted by almightywood View Post
The best example I could come up with would be a hypothetical situation.

People trying to discover fire.

One claims it is heat that generates it.
Another claims it is friction.
(though both are obviously speaking in caveman grunts)

They make fire by rubbing two sticks together.
They decide that friction is what causes fire and eliminate the possibility that heat does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by almightywood View Post
The fallacies of assumption that caused the improper elimination (though all their logical skills had pointed to this) is precisely the point, not evidence that it is invalid.
This only makes sense if your hypothetical cavemen are morons who decide to leave it at that. Of course, they wouldn't because with the creation of fire through friction they would have noticed that A) fire hot and B) friction make hot. Otherwise, why the fuck would they turn to friction to make fire in the first place?! Oh wait, because fire hot and friction make hot.

Try again.

(Oh, and you see how this works? By pointing out how you are wrong, you LEARN what went wrong with your reasoning so you can improve it. There you go - knowledge and learning from "eliminating possibilities". You're welcome.)
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:23 PM   #60
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by ACt View Post
He even thanked this post. I don't even... we may need a sarcasm font.
Eh, it was funny.





Quote:
This only makes sense if your hypothetical cavemen are morons who decide to leave it at that. Of course, they wouldn't because with the creation of fire through friction they would have noticed that A) fire hot and B) friction make hot. Otherwise, why the fuck would they turn to friction to make fire in the first place?! Oh wait, because fire hot and friction make hot.
This is applying logic that you understand to people that may not. Logic is by no means universal since anyone can come up with a logical explanation of how something has occurred that may not be the case in fact. You are saying I should take random people's deductions with the authority of stephen hawking simply because they have an apt turn of phrase. I say everyone's a caveman. I believe they are right in believing what they do based on what they know. I don't believe that they know everything there is to know on the subject, so their deductions are suspect.

Quote:
try again (Oh, and you see how this works? By pointing out how you are wrong, you LEARN what went wrong with your reasoning so you can improve it. There you go - knowledge and learning from "eliminating possibilities". You're welcome.)
There's no trying involved. It's a statement of my viewpoint so is a certainty. Elimination is subtraction. The sum total can never increase with a removal.

Last edited by almightywood; 12-20-2011 at 12:04 AM.
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