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Old 12-20-2011, 12:11 PM   #76
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by almightywood View Post
Actually no, I literally just implied that 1 in 1,000,000 is better odds than 0 in 10.
That's not what you implied before, and definitely not literally. But whatever. You're saying now that it's better to be uncertain than to be absolutely certain to be wrong. Which I would agree with, no one is advocating the elimination of viable conclusions after all. But if you're saying we're always eliminating the correct answer or the truth then that would kind of contradict your whole "If you say someone is wrong then you're an unwise fool" thing. So what is it? Are we statistically more likely to be right than you, or are you saying we always eliminate the correct answer and are certain to be wrong?

Either way, we either operate more intelligently than you do or you're guilty of what you're claiming we do and are unwise by your own irrational reasoning. Good job.

Quote:
Ah, but if I identify my stance as my opinion, and they challenge it, then that is indeed exactly what they are doing. If I make an uncertain statement the only way someone could ever proclaim it wrong is with a proclamation of absolute truth. People are just having a hard time grasping what they are arguing against. The only way an opinion can possibly be wrong is if it goes against absolute truth, otherwise the simple fact that is an opinion makes it impossible to be wrong. If someone tells you they like the color blue, how can you possibly tell them they are wrong?

Good thing I've already Identified MYSELF as an idiot, can't say that applies to everyone in this thread.
See, that's stupid. You assume stupid shit about us. Even after I told you that we aren't stating anything as absolute unyielding truth. We're challenging your stupid opinion on the basis that it is illogical in the context of what is currently known. You misunderstand and then whine like a retard using your mediocre grasp of something taught in introductory philosophy classes.

And of course you can't say that applies to everyone in this thread. With the exception of HR, no one else is being an idiot in here.

Edit: And honestly, not sure why I'm even bothering to explain this shit to you. Since you've already demonstrated yourself as the ultimate hypocrite in the fact that you're challenging our opinions which is the same as proclaiming absolute truth according to you. Surely you're not going to admit to being wrong when you're standing on the pillar of unyielding absolute truth. You have eliminated all of our opinions and are left with 1 option out of 1. The truth.

If you were as truly wise as you proclaim to be, you would acknowledge that I am equally as likely to being right about this as you are, since our opinions each represent but one of the infinite possibilities available.

I'm sure this wisdom will go right over your head though, and you'll continue challenging my opinion like a fool.
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:30 PM   #77
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by almightywood View Post
{to ACt}If you hate the "I don't really know anything" statement, it's because you are young enough that you just haven't lived long enough to have the majority of things that you not only deduced, but have been taught get changed.

...

I'm 34 years old man...
I lol'd.
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:39 PM   #78
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
That's not what you implied before, and definitely not literally. But whatever. You're saying now that it's better to be uncertain than to be absolutely certain to be wrong. Which I would agree with, no one is advocating the elimination of viable conclusions after all. But if you're saying we're always eliminating the correct answer or the truth then that would kind of contradict your whole "If you say someone is wrong then you're an unwise fool" thing. So what is it? Are we statistically more likely to be right than you, or are you saying we always eliminate the correct answer and are certain to be wrong?
I'm saying that I have seen the correct answer eliminated often enough that I no longer eliminate. Sometimes it's been on my part, sometimes it's been on others. EVERYONE's deductions are suspect. Logic isn't universal or everyone would always arrive at the same conclusion when presented with the same scenario Either way I'd rather be certain of a shot at the truth, than maybe not have one at all.

Quote:
Either way, we either operate more intelligently than you do or you're guilty of what you're claiming we do and are unwise by your own irrational reasoning. Good job.
It's more like we have different goals, and because of this pursue things differently.
You're pursuing understanding.
I am pursuing knowledge. I don't particularly care if I never come to fully understand something as long as I am learning something about it.



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See, that's stupid. You assume stupid shit about us. Even after I told you that we aren't stating anything as absolute unyielding truth. We're challenging your stupid opinion on the basis that it is illogical in the context of what is currently known. You misunderstand and then whine like a retard using your mediocre grasp of something taught in introductory philosophy classes.
It's not a mediocre grasp, it's something that has been hammered home in me after years of constantly changing my venues and experiences. I assume nothing about people. I merely stand my ground on the few things I do know. An opinion is an uncertain statement. It entails the phrase I think or the like.
Because an opinion by the very virtue of it's nature is uncertain, it is the one thing that can be proclaimed with certainty.
In order to prove an uncertain statement wrong, you MUST produce absolute truth. The only way you can eliminate all other possibilities is with overwhelming evidence that what you are stating is the complete one and only true answer to whatever the issue is.

So again it's not a matter of me assuming stupid shit about you, it's about not realizing what you are arguing against.

Quote:
And of course you can't say that applies to everyone in this thread. With the exception of HR, no one else is being an idiot in here.
As I stated earlier, everyone's an idiot.
If the worst kind of moron is the one who doesn't know he's one, then anyone that hasn't called themselves stupid at some point in this thread falls under that statement.

Last edited by almightywood; 12-20-2011 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:46 PM   #79
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

Quote:
Originally Posted by almightywood View Post
I'm saying that I have seen the correct answer eliminated often enough that I no longer eliminate. Sometimes it's been on my part, sometimes it's been on others. EVERYONE's deductions are suspect. Logic isn't universal or everyone would always arrive at the same conclusion when presented with the same scenario Either way I'd rather be certain of a shot at the truth, than maybe not have one at all.
Logic is universal. People's understanding of it isn't.




Quote:
As I stated earlier, everyone's an idiot.
Is this a statement of absolute unyielding truth? If not, how can you say that? In my opinion, everyone isn't an idiot. Your statement here seems to be challenging my opinion. Seems like your stance lacks quite a bit of wisdom and you're being very hypocritical.
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:53 PM   #80
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Logic is universal. People's understanding of it isn't.
Which means the same thing for all intents and purposes.





Quote:
Is this a statement of absolute unyielding truth? If not, how can you say that? In my opinion, everyone isn't an idiot. Your statement here seems to be challenging my opinion. Seems like your stance lacks quite a bit of wisdom and you're being very hypocritical.
Considering it's one of the main points of my whole philosophy, I would have to say hypocritical doesn't fit.

True wisdom begins with acknowledging that we know little.
We are all idiots.
The worst kind of moron is one who doesn't realize they are one.
If you haven't said you're an idiot, then this statement applies.

If you don't call yourself an idiot, how can true wisdom begin?
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:01 PM   #81
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by almightywood View Post
Which means the same thing for all intents and purposes.
Not in the least.

Quote:
Considering it's one of the main points of my whole philosophy, I would have to say hypocritical doesn't fit.

True wisdom begins with acknowledging that we know little.
We are all idiots.
The worst kind of moron is one who doesn't realize they are one.
If you haven't said you're an idiot, then this statement applies.

If you don't call yourself an idiot, how can true wisdom begin?
That only works if we assume your premises are true (for simplicity's sake, anyway. It's actually a faulty proof, but I don't feel like going into it since it'd be futile and it doesn't really matter...). Are you saying that they are the absolute truth? If my opinion is that they aren't, wouldn't your stance be challenging mine since they are mutually exclusive?

edit: Also, fucking bravo at your mental gymnastics. For someone who pretends to be so open-minded you sure will jump through a shit-ton of hoops to stubbornly justify your ridiculous philosophy.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:15 PM   #82
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
That only works if we assume your premises are true (for simplicity's sake, anyway. It's actually a faulty proof, but I don't feel like going into it since it'd be futile and it doesn't really matter...). Are you saying that they are the absolute truth? If my opinion is that they aren't, wouldn't your stance be challenging mine since they are mutually exclusive?

edit: Also, fucking bravo at your mental gymnastics. For someone who pretends to be so open-minded you sure will jump through a shit-ton of hoops to stubbornly justify your ridiculous philosophy.
This is the exception that proves the rule. The reason that the only thing we can say with absolute certainty is our opinion is because we are idiots. It's the starting point of the path of wisdom. If you deny it, you just haven't reached that point yet, and maybe never will.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:20 PM   #83
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

Oh, I see. So we shouldn't eliminate possibilities or declare anything as absolute truth...except when you eliminate the possibility of being wrong about your personal philosophy, which is absolute truth. Nothing hypocritical about that, no sir. I am truly enlightened thanks to you, oh wise sage.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:25 PM   #84
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Oh, I see. So we shouldn't eliminate possibilities or declare anything as absolute truth...except when you eliminate the possibility of being wrong about your personal philosophy, which is absolute truth. Nothing hypocritical about that, no sir. I am truly enlightened thanks to you, oh wise sage.
Oh, whatever, as if there aren't countless adages that one could do very well to live by that don't have a "hypocrisy" at their core.
That is a common fact of life, not evidence of a failure.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:44 PM   #85
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

When you criticize everyone here by doing exactly what you criticizing everyone else for doing then that's pretty bad. In my opinion, of course. Which you won't challenge because that would go against your self-contradicting personal philosophy.

Last edited by Miburo; 12-20-2011 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Rephrased a bit to avoid crybaby nitpicking replies
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:48 PM   #86
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
When you criticize everyone here by doing exactly what you criticizing everyone else for doing then that's pretty bad. In my opinion, of course. Which you won't challenge because that would go against your self-contradicting personal philosophy.
The difference between what I am doing, and what everyone else is doing, is I am voicing my opinion, they are contesting mine.
You can't disprove an opinion with an opinion, only with an absolute truth.
There's a reason that hypocrisy was in quotes.
It's not really one, it's the exception that makes the rule.
Every rule has an exception built into it, it's the only way to make them specific.
Without one it's just a statement, and not a rule.
You're just pulling up some tired useless argument in an attempt to prove me wrong which we already established was impossible since I am merely stating my opinion.

If you can link me one instance of me saying that someone's opinion is wrong (and not I disagree since that respects the other person's opinion) where the issue at stake WASN'T my opinion, then I will gladly admit to this hypocrisy you are fallaciously claiming.

Last edited by almightywood; 12-20-2011 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:53 PM   #87
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by almightywood View Post
If you can link me one instance of me saying that someone's opinion is wrong (and not I disagree since that respects the other person's opinion) where the issue at stake WASN'T my opinion, then I will gladly admit to this hypocrisy you are fallaciously claiming.
Gladly.

Quote:
You can't disprove an opinion with an opinion, only with an absolute truth. (...)

If you can link me one instance of me saying that someone's opinion is wrong (...), then I will gladly admit to this hypocrisy you are fallaciously claiming.
And the dictionary says:

Quote:
fallacious [fəˈleɪʃəs]adj
1.
(Philosophy / Logic) containing or involving a fallacy; illogical; erroneous
2. tending to mislead
3. delusive or disappointing: a fallacious hope
fallaciously
adv
fallaciousness n
There you go, you're a fucking hypocrite. Now get down of that crappy pedestal and act like a man.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:00 PM   #88
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

^I think he wanted you to...uhh, quote where he disrespected...something, I dunno. It had nothing to do with him being a hypocrite though, that's just not possible. It must be some game they play at wherever they keep 34 year old retards at.

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Originally Posted by almightywood View Post
The difference between what I am doing, and what everyone else is doing, is I am voicing my opinion, they are contesting mine.
You can't disprove an opinion with an opinion, only with an absolute truth.
There's a reason that hypocrisy was in quotes.
It's not really one, it's the exception that makes the rule.
Every rule has an exception built into it, it's the only way to make them specific.
Without one it's just a statement, and not a rule.
You're just pulling up some tired useless argument in an attempt to prove me wrong which we already established was impossible since I am merely stating my opinion.

If you can link me one instance of me saying that someone's opinion is wrong (and not I disagree since that respects the other person's opinion) where the issue at stake WASN'T my opinion, then I will gladly admit to this hypocrisy you are fallaciously claiming.
So this little self-contradicting rule of yours that you're using to say we're unwise and whatnot, is that your opinion or an absolute truth?

If it's just your opinion then fuck off. By your own warped logic, you can't use your opinions to contest anything we say.

If it's an absolute truth then how come you can state absolute truths and thereby eliminate all other possibilities and whatnot, but when we do it you call us unwise and shit? Also, if it's an absolute truth then you're obviously not just stating your opinion like you're claiming to do now.

Oh, and I couldn't care less is you admit to your hypocrisy or not. I've already clearly demonstrated it. If you're too much of a pussy to admit it then no skin off my back.

All this is my opinion, like everything I posted in this thread. Which you cannot challenge, because that would mean you're making a statement of absolute unyielding truth. Which makes someone a fool according to your rule with the exception of it being absolute unyielding truth.

Stupid, I know. But I sure as hell didn't make these rules.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:23 PM   #89
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

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Originally Posted by almightywood View Post
If you hate the "I don't really know anything" statement, it's because you are young enough that you just haven't lived long enough to have the majority of things that you not only deduced, but have been taught get changed.
I think everyone here can attest to the fact that I really age a bit more. I'm such a whipper-snapper.

That issue aside, the "I'm older than you so your opinion is less than mine because you don't understand how the world works"? Really? You are trying to have an "enlightening conversation" and you pull that? For fuck sake, though I generally hold the "youth is stupid" argument, I surely do not dismiss it. You give bad name to the aged here. I'm glad I'm not as stupid as you.

Quote:
To think that there is any sort of permanence to the knowledge you currently possess is simply a failing of the youth, believe it or not. As you will get older you will find yourself over and over saying. 'Man I can't believe how stupid I was that I used to believe that.' And that isn't just me, that happens to everyone, get ready for it. People are much smarter when they acknowledge their own stupidity from the get-go. If you don't realize you're an idiot, fine. Don't try and convince me of it. I'll continue to believe that we all are. I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who doesn't preface their statements with "I am an idiot" or something of the like, since I know that person is usually trying to impart knowledge instead of taking it.
So you admit you are stupid? Wow, that's stupid. I admit to lapses in judgment, being wrong and having gaps in my knowledge, but I surely don't admit to being stupid. Because I apply brain regularly. It is a good practice. You're psuedo-humble bullshit about believing you are an idiot but also smart is the height of arrogance. You're the politicians who go around pretending to be just like everybody else. It demeans anyone who is actually intelligent to have intelligent people acting like morons. If you are smart, own up - but your best efforts at intellectual conversation have been circular metaphysical crap, it has been a shit shifting expedition to even come up with rebuttals.

But here is the real kicker mr. "I am stupid." Why did you even write this?

Quote:
I'm 34 years old man, I have scored in the top percentile of almost every test I have ever taken. When I take an IQ test today I still score around 150. My knowledge is based on experience. In other words it is wisdom. To put it in layman's terms, I'm no dummy. I am an idiot. You are an idiot. We are all idiots. Don't try and talk to me with authority about anything that you've read. I don't care if you can provide me a link on the internet that says something or not. It could still be bullshit while being on the net, it could still be 100% true while not being on the net. Give me your deductions, not what someone else says. Give me something you came up with, not something you destroyed. Tell me what happened to you, not what's on the news.
Wow, so much to unpack here, but I think the first question is: but how big is your penis? Because mine is huge.

What you happen to be in your life means nothing in the internet. You could be queen elizabeth and we aren't convinced. Glad you scored so well on so many tests - your arguments don't back up any intelligent claim of being close to the 150 IQ (which is also bullshit because it is a measure of mental capacity that is best correlated to young children rather than adults).

I also like how you come out at me for providing links - I've provided none. And if I were, I'd pick pretty reliable resources or at least qualify why I used something like wikipedia. Ask around, I'm a pretty intelligent dude who doesn't go about offering shit advice/opinions or information. Everything in this thread has been from my own brain, pure and simple. I don't know how you could reach a different argument.

Quote:
Way to aptly put exactly what I stated was my point. If you want to throw attitude because you don't like to do that that's fine.
I would say that the idea that either you or the other guy's belief must be proven instead of just you agreeing to disagree would make you a douchebag, but to each their own.
That's what I do; clarify something stupid people say with an example that demonstrates the idiocy behind it. That was why I said, "basically this boils down to..." indicating that I was about to put your convoluted words into a simple one-to-one related situation. Just happens, the situation was a joke in a movie about stupid people. Didn't have to work out like that, but it did.

What does that say about you?
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:25 PM   #90
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

I still can't get over that he's 34...
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