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Old 05-10-2012, 11:32 PM   #46
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Re: Parenting 101

the people who already posted shows how theres a large array of different people with different beliefs even if they claim to fall under this religion or that. even if they fall under the same religion, their beliefs may not be the same.

so hyde is ok with gays as long as they dont talk about anything relating to being so. thats not really accepting gays, its more of, u want to be ignorant of them being gay. (unless you and ur friends are the type to neverrrrr talk about ur own relationships/love/sex/etc with each other) if it was acceptable, it would be like any other thing guys talk about, like if their gf been bitching at them, a gay guy should be able to say how his bf has been bitching at him. if the guy was talking about hot steamy anal he had last night then yea thats going overboard, but not because its gay, but because its too much detail about his sex life. wouldnt want to hear my friends talking about their sexual experiences for daily chat or anything lol XD

as for the child thing, when your child have the ability to understand, they will when you explain things. its usually the time when they start asking a lot of questions. but before that they wont get it. the age range that a kid is "suppose" to start understanding cognitively is guessed, it is not the case for all children. it should be based on individual children.

for the hot object talk in general, you should only have to tell the kid not to touch it, but kids are kids, depending on their personality, some will touch it anyways. that is where u let them make their own choices. u can only try to prevent bad things from happening to them, u do not control their will. (unless u chain ur kid up in ur closet and forcefully prevent them from everything or something)

//i have no kids but ive studied the bookz about it and have taken care of many kids for about 6 years now(thats minus kids of family ive watched over before), ive seen how many different kids grow and change over the years. and for those that go by "the book," its completely different for different kids. as far as child development goes, saying a child has this disorder or that is just fucking bullshit. people are just making things up to make up for their kid who isnt developing or acting the way they want them to. if they were real, 90% of small kids have ODD. if you dont know what that is, look it up, its insane.
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:47 PM   #47
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Re: Parenting 101

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Originally Posted by OG View Post
so hyde is ok with gays as long as they dont talk about anything relating to being so. thats not really accepting gays, its more of, u want to be ignorant of them being gay. (unless you and ur friends are the type to neverrrrr talk about ur own relationships/love/sex/etc with each other) if it was acceptable, it would be like any other thing guys talk about, like if their gf been bitching at them, a gay guy should be able to say how his bf has been bitching at him. if the guy was talking about hot steamy anal he had last night then yea thats going overboard, but not because its gay, but because its too much detail about his sex life. wouldnt want to hear my friends talking about their sexual experiences for daily chat or anything lol XD
We really don't talk much about our family life, because work... at times is an escape from home. Sure, both he and she have stated how their partners are nagging at them at times. We don't carry on an hour's worth of conversation about that. We don't do it when my straight workers are talking about their spouses or boy/girlfriends. Bad conversation that can get even worse pretty quick.

When I say obnoxious gay person, I'm referring to a person who is the "we're queer and we are here" type of person. When the only thing you want to talk about is being gay, that's over the top. I want to talk to a person interested in sports, cars, and manga/anime. Can we talk about sex, sometimes, until it reaches the point in which you talked about.

I literally worked with a guy, and his first statement to you if he didn't know you was "I'm gay, does that bother you?" Maybe I'm old-fashioned in wanting to know a person's name first. But once you got to know the guy (he was an asshole by the way, he proudly admits to it), he was one of the guys. But he was also the type to have the "sex" talks in which most guys left the conversation group as well. Only women wanted to hear it (I made this assumption, because they were the ones who stayed and listened to him).
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:57 PM   #48
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Re: Parenting 101

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Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
We really don't talk much about our family life, because work... at times is an escape from home. Sure, both he and she have stated how their partners are nagging at them at times. We don't carry on an hour's worth of conversation about that. We don't do it when my straight workers are talking about their spouses or boy/girlfriends. Bad conversation that can get even worse pretty quick.

When I say obnoxious gay person, I'm referring to a person who is the "we're queer and we are here" type of person. When the only thing you want to talk about is being gay, that's over the top. I want to talk to a person interested in sports, cars, and manga/anime. Can we talk about sex, sometimes, until it reaches the point in which you talked about.

I literally worked with a guy, and his first statement to you if he didn't know you was "I'm gay, does that bother you?" Maybe I'm old-fashioned in wanting to know a person's name first. But once you got to know the guy (he was an asshole by the way, he proudly admits to it), he was one of the guys. But he was also the type to have the "sex" talks in which most guys left the conversation group as well. Only women wanted to hear it (I made this assumption, because they were the ones who stayed and listened to him).
gay people who do those types of things are rareeee though, i live in the bay area, ive seen and met my fair share of gays lol

i find that the ones that do say they are gay the moment they see/meet someone, are usually just insecure or just attention whoring, because ohhhhh they gayyyy. so its not because of the being gay part, but more of their personality part. its the same thing if they are also overly expressing their love of the same sex. You should link it to their personality rather than their sexual preferences.
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:01 AM   #49
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Re: Parenting 101

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Originally Posted by OG View Post
i find that the ones that do say they are gay the moment they see/meet someone, are usually just insecure or just attention whoring, because ohhhhh they gayyyy. so its not because of the being gay part, but more of their personality part. You should link it to their personality rather than their sexual preferences.
that's what i'm saying. if how you identify yourself is based solely on your sexual orientation... you're pathetic.

and maybe it's because of the areas i've lived in, south and midwest, but there are more "out there" gay people than one would think.

just because i don't agree about one aspect of a person doesn't mean i'm not going to socialize with that person. if that were the case, i'd lose my brother, older cousin, and an aunt. i love all three of them, just don't agree with that aspect of their life. but i'm not going to go out of my way to socialize with a gay person either. if we have things in common, we'll socialize. if we don't, i'm not going to waste your time or mine.

i seriously do my best to follow the teaching: love the sinner, not the sin.

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Old 05-11-2012, 12:07 AM   #50
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Re: Parenting 101

A gay friend of mine at work just lives as though everyone already knows he's gay and never brings it up until someone questions him or it is brought up in conversation. I think it's partly because he likes to spring it on people and embarrass them when they say something homophobic, but it's still how I think it should be done. None of this "Hi, I'm gay, how are you?" bullshit, we get enough of that from the vegans.
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:13 AM   #51
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Re: Parenting 101

i picked a crappy title for this thread. is there a way i can change it?
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:53 AM   #52
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Re: Parenting 101

tell a mod what u want it changed to lol
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:08 AM   #53
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Re: jekyl_hyde's Thread of Bullshit

well, my point was proven that those who seek tolerance aren't willing to show it themselves.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:28 AM   #54
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Re: jekyl_hyde's Thread of Bullshit

Never thought a joke of mine would lead to a full-fledged thread. Oh why I wasn't here yesterday...

First of all, I have to say something to mest, neokakkarot and apocalypz, our resident residents of NC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous
Well, that's what NC gets by making an unconstitutional amendment and most people being dumb enough to vote favorably. Maybe it's for the best, to see if the taste of their own medicine via Christian Sharia makes some people grow a brain.
The "some people" in this post is directed only to the right-wing nutjobs, not reasonable people as you three.

I just find it sad that one of the most powerful countries in the world that was founded with freedom and equality as a motto has theocratic measures in this age, specially considering that mid-20th century theocracies were shitty times to be alive, with people being arrested or even exiled for not being "true Christians" (like my father, who was exiled to Spain for being an atheist before Portugal became a democracy).

Hell, modern theocracies in Africa and Middle East are even worse, with barbaric executions in the name of their personal gods (being the most ridiculous case a person in Malaysia making 3 tweets with incredibly mild comments on Islam and one of the Islamic leaders begging for Malaysia to deport that person to be killed on theocratic ground).

It's inhumane and hypocritical for these Christian extremists condemning Islam for being barbaric and then assimilate their totalitarian habits. That being said...

Quote:
the Bible (and Jesus) has referred to the church as his bride, with Jesus being the groom. these two terms alone signify the sex/gender relationship in a marriage.
Look up Saint Sergius and Saint Bacchus. They were in a same-sex marriage back in the III century A.C, a clear indication that in early Christianity gender was a non-issue.

Quote:
it is also stated that Jesus was meant to fulfill the law (the OT for those of you who are ignorant to the biblical teachings). the only sexual act mentioned in the ten commandments is coveting (loosely) and adultery. but there are references given to two communites/city-states (Sodom and Gomorrah) where homosexuality was practiced rampantly.
The bible also has many examples that do not fit the non-incestuous, monogamous heterosexual marriage conservatives advocate. You have marriage:
  • based on incest, because others were considered "too wicked" to marry the people blessed by God
  • based on wacky conventions, being Tamar the best example. She was obliged to marry her brother-in-law when her husband died and then when the brother-in-law died for seed spilling, she snatched her father-in-law by tricking him. Truly your average marriage.
  • of multiple wives, being the first example Jacob who had two wives (and cousins of him to top it all) and the Book of Chronicles described all the wives King David had.
  • with concubines included, being King David again an example of that.
And before you reuse Mal's quote:
Quote:
There is a significant difference between "promotes" and "contains stories about."
As much as I respect you, Mal, and your vast knowledge on Christian affairs, you flunked here.

For example, Lot, who tried to shove his virgin daughters to the Sodomites to save the angels' rectums just to have sex with them while drunk on whine, is elevated to the status of righteous man who fought the ungodly deeds of others day after day and an example of God's intervention when helping his chosen ones in the Second Epistle of Peter. In other words, incest and drunken sex included as examples to follow by the righteous.

I'm not saying Christianity elevates all its stories as righteous and examples to follow, but there are enough cases of early (and even modern) Christian Theology doing said elevation while containing pure what-the-fuckery by contemporary standards.

Quote:
personally, I think gay marriage is wrong. I also think that our country should leave marriage where it was intended to be, in the context of religion.
Do you want Easter and Christmas back to its intended context, the religion one? Have fun fasting on Easter and receiving incense and myrrh on January 6th, along with praying. A lot.

On a more serious tone, since the separation of church and state and the secularization on once religious ceremonies, marriage is just a legal binding between two people with tax-filling privileges, it means nothing legally in the context of religion. Gay people just want to get married to get those privileges, do you think they'd give a fuck if there was nothing to marriage but the ceremony itself?

I think religious people should either give up the fiscal bonus and stick to the ceremony alone or allow gay marriage. What is happening now is a clear case of bigoted double-standards.

Quote:
look throughout history. marriage is a concept of most religions, not of government, excluding arranged marriages between royalty and noble families.
First, marriage predates religion if you're to believe many anthropologists, so that's like advocating the QWERTY keyboard should be handed to Microsoft and Microsoft alone.

Second, it defeats your point including exceptions to the totalitarian rule you're advocating.

Third, religions have different concepts of marriage, so which one should be upheld. For anyone reasonable, none, marriage should still be a secular binding.

Quote:
(also, for those who think there is a difference under filing married jointly rather that individuals under a household with a head of household, there is no difference now).
It depends on the state (and country) you live in. In many states, there is a big difference and North Carolina OUTLAWED civil unions along with gay marriage, so filling individuals under head of household is plain impossible there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde
5. You just do not get the correlation between parenthood and free will do you?
I'm still figuring out how is this relevant to eternal damnation and social mistreatment of people based solely on their nature.

Quote:
me personally, i didn't vote for obama. and i honestly believe that if voters were required to take a civics test, there's a strong possibility that obama wouldn't have won.
I'm sorry, but what civics test would make people not vote for Obama and instead vote for McCain? If they had the chance, the overwhelming majority of Europeans would vote for Obama based solely on his convictions over McCain, so I don't think at all Obama's victory is due to a fault of civic awareness from the American citizens.

Quote:
This topic came up when 60% of nc voted against gay marriage. Does that mean that 60% of nc is white republican christians? no
Hummm, 68% white people, republican majority from 1968 to 2008 and 79% Christians. You don't need a Venn Diagram to figure out that a very good chunk of those 60% fit the description.

I don't say the totality of it, since there are reports of people voting against their own belief towards the amendment due to misinformation and poorly-constructed text present when voting.

Quote:
i've had a couple of gay friends, we'd go to a bar (not a gay bar, but a hole in the wall type of joint),
I'm with Axiom, why did you feel the need to post it's a glory hole bar? You could say a bar that isn't a gay one and people would get it.

Quote:
4. God is not a rageaholic.
The Old Testament God begs to differ. Have you read it properly?! God himself says many times that people should fear him to avoid his wrath, and it wasn't just talk. While I read the OT I've lost the count of how many people died by God's smite, along with global deluges and holy genocides to the more ridiculous stances of turning Lot's wife into salt just for looking at his smiting and the ever popular example of a guy being stoned to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

The concept of a loving God is only true in the New Testament, before that calling God "rageaholic" isn't very far from the truth.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:13 AM   #55
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Re: jekyl_hyde's Thread of Bullshit

I see here JH is formign his view based on personal experience. the kind of gay person he's describing is loud in your face and obnoxious and they are not in minority of that sub-group either. But for him to paint the whole group with this brush is the problemb. People often forget that steryotypes do have a little basis in truth. Thats the problemb with steryotyping the group as a whole.. it wont apply to everyone.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:14 AM   #56
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Re: jekyl_hyde's Thread of Bullshit

Oh, this thread is going to be fun. Nothing like a bunch of people arguing over whether or not they have the right to decide whether or not people who are different than them should have rights or be able to live the way they want, so long as they aren't infracting on anyone else's rights and freedoms. (Guess what the correct answer to this is... not much of a debate if you're honest.)

Anyway, might come back and knock some heads around, but since it's happened a few times, I want to make two points:

A) Anecdotal evidence is the weakest argument. (Hey, I've heard so and so hugged a black guy - he's totally not racist.) Argue from documentation and true evidence. Don't give me crap that someone is OK with something because they've brushed up against it in a minor way. If you have a problem with homosexuals having the same rights and freedoms as every other human being, then you have a problem with homosexuals. You are NOT okay with them. Pure and simple. You think they are not as good as your heterosexual life to be included on even terms. Dress it up however you want, that's the truth.

2) Another poor argument: "you've never been a parent so you can't understand." Get the fuck out of Dodge with that bullshit. Are we to believe anyone here hasn't been exposed to parenting in some shape of form? Particularly because pretty well all of us have parents and definitely had parents or a caregiver at some point. I'd expect a boy raised by wolves has a tenuous grasp on parenting. I get continually hit with the "oh, you'll understand one day." Fuck you - my brain works perfectly well and I had two wonderful parents who raised me. I think I can suss out what it is like to be a parent even without fully experiencing it.

Furthermore, just because you are a parent doesn't make any of your statements more valid. Hell, a person who is an absolutely terrible parent would actually have less worth to their words than someone who's never fucked up at it before. So drop the bullshit. Vengeance's opinions and thoughts on child-rearing and homosexuality are not belittled by the fact that he's never procreated.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:05 AM   #57
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Re: jekyl_hyde's Thread of Bullshit

i've tried to not go too deep into the religious side of this argument, because some would just bash and troll. i truly believe that you num, are open for debate. you've provided some keen examples to counter my arguments. my rebuttal is that we are humans, and we're not perfect. also, you have to look at the context of the events.

Foe example, Lot. Before he headed to and settled in Sodom, Lot was a man stature in many ways. He was rich, had a beautiful wife (by the standards in that time), had numerous children (he was a rockefeller in that day in age). After Sodom, what little time he did live, his live was changed drastically.

@hr
just because i don't agree with same sex marriage, how does that make me a hater of a gay person? if that were the case, i would ostracize two of my workers, and i would have no doings with several of my own family members.

I know not all gay people are the "in your face" type about it. but there are more than one would think in the areas where i have lived. maybe because it's not the accepted norm. i don't know. what a person does behind closed doors is their business.

liberals scream seperation of church and state. yet they don't want it. marriage was a religious concept. and num, who's to say that the earliest couples didn't believe in religion? pagan gods came from somewhere. the bible teaches the first man and woman were adam and eve, a common assumption accepted by the scientific community until the last... 20-25 years.

i personally know of an atheist who thinks that neanderthals didn't have some form of religion. i call it b.s. the human brain has always sought answers. religion, throughout all of history answered those questions (some accurately, others not so much). modern day science (physics), was from people who believed in pagan gods and people who feared Allah. yet there are still questions that scientists can't answer i.e. how can a cube of ice with a coefficient of friction of .01 come to a complete stop on a smooth surface in under ten feet? why is the human body, which is designed to live forever (mitosis), die?

some people believe in a higher being/power, which explains many unexplainables in this world. why did my spouse die in a car crash and i didn't? why are some babies still-born?

all gruesome questions and unfortunate events, that can't be explained scientifically. religion can explain, just not in the manner that most want to have it explained.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:36 AM   #58
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Re: jekyl_hyde's Thread of Bullshit

Which religion is marriage a concept of? All of them? Then which one has the right to tell us who can be married and why? I mean, Christianity has this long tradition about marriage... but it certainly didn't invent the idea. Shouldn't we consult the ancient Greeks, Egyptians and Chinese about the rules surrounding marriage? They had it worked out long before. So did the celtic pagans, actually.

Ooo, and don't forget the Hindus. They actually have three sexes... we should probably see what they say.

After all, The United States Of America preaches freedom of religion, correct? Better get all them on board so you can get this whole church and state thing accurate.

EDIT: derp - science can't explain car crashes and still-born babies. Derp.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:36 AM   #59
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Re: jekyl_hyde's Thread of Bullshit

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As much as I respect you, Mal, and your vast knowledge on Christian affairs, you flunked here.

For example, Lot, who tried to shove his virgin daughters to the Sodomites to save the angels' rectums just to have sex with them while drunk on whine, is elevated to the status of righteous man who fought the ungodly deeds of others day after day and an example of God's intervention when helping his chosen ones in the Second Epistle of Peter. In other words, incest and drunken sex included as examples to follow by the righteous.

I'm not saying Christianity elevates all its stories as righteous and examples to follow, but there are enough cases of early (and even modern) Christian Theology doing said elevation while containing pure what-the-fuckery by contemporary standards.
There's a bit of controversy surrounding how this passage was translated. Some argue that the equivalent of "to know" in the original Hebrew should be translated as "to become acquainted with" rather than "to have relations with." I don't think there's really any way to know for sure which was intended by reading the English translations, there are just too many ways to read what you want and find evidence for either theory in the verses.

Reading the full passage in the original Hebrew would be about the only way to know for sure, but for some reason no one seems to have ever bothered. However, for reasons of consistency and what I understand of Old Testament culture, I am inclined to believe the non-rapey translation:

In short, Lot was an outsider in the city of Sodom, and the citizenry became suspicious of him inviting two strangers into his house. They wanted to "know" them in the sense that they wanted to question them, trying to discover if they were spies. Lot wasn't cool with that because it wasn't his idea of hospitality, so he offered up his daughters for one of two indeterminable reasons: 1) as collateral, sort of like voluntary hostages, or 2) as wives for whoever wanted, because he didn't consider himself an outsider and was willing to give away his daughters as a sign of good faith, as was the style at the time.

The idea that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of rampant homosexuality has no basis other than the likely misinterpretation of this story. In reality, it's much more likely that the sin the cities were guilty of was pagan sex rituals, where citizens would have sex with priests who acted as proxies for various pagan fertility gods.


As for the drunken incest, "[Lot] did not know when she lay down or when she arose." This was entirely planned by the daughters; Lot wasn't even aware of it at the time, let alone intent on doing it.
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:36 PM   #60
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Re: jekyl_hyde's Thread of Bullshit

Lot is a hilarious section. Anyway any thoughts on justified gang bangs?
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