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Old 07-29-2012, 12:56 AM   #121
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

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Originally Posted by ACt View Post
How long have you been reading manga?
Ok you made me laugh right there.
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:24 AM   #122
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Its confirmed top use Kotoamatsukami regularly... as an original user should, considering th eguy had the power to awaken such a powerful genjutsu itself...

And DANZOU DID NOT HAVE SHISUI'S ARM, IT NEVER HAPPENED!!! SHow me where shisui's arm is used because multiple times only the stealing and tranplantation of shisui's eye is mention by Ao, itachi and even shisui himself in the flash back... explain to me why not only why danzou has shisui's arm without any mention what so ever...
But explain why shisui's arm is even necessary when danzou has hashirama's chakra from cell implantation which is the best chakra any shinobi can use... its 10x greater then any uchiha's power... which is why its hashirama's cells that are implanted to increase the power of the SG and not more uchiha's cells to produce more power... this is just a nonsensical argument considering how the manga has portrayed hashirama's power compared to even the uchiha's power...



But it makes no sense... think about it... if Uchiha shisui was just a basic uchiha with basic uchiha chakra like that of sasuke, itachi, Izuna and madara then why could they not use the Kotoamatsukami eye as easily as shisui could??? If it was as simple as that then Itachi would of had the power, as a very powerful uchiha, to use shisui's eye regularly too... However, itachi knew that only the power of hashirama was capable of using the eye more then once a decade... which had to be from knowing its what shisui used since everything else itachi had to of learned about Koto was from shisui as well... plus itachi had no way to know danzou had hashirama's chakra...

Think about it, if hashirama's chakra is what it takes to use the genjutsu regularly then its the very power it should take to awaken the jutsu as well... otherwise any other uchiha should be capable of doing the same yet no other has... not even uchiha madara with his EMS or RG...



Nonsensical... really.. how??? So the fact only shisui could create and use Kotoamatsukami regularly which requires hashirama's chakra to do so means nothing to anyone, other then a nonsensical conclusion for it to be used by shisui despite everything...

Tell me everyone... if shisui was a regular uchiha, with regular uchiha chakra like all the other MS users then why was it only shisui awakened a genjutsu beyond tsukuyomi... the most powerful one known in the manga...??? WHy is it shisui's chakra was mitsaken for hashirama's... why was it itachi explained hashirama's chakra was needed to actually use Kotoamatsukami regularly like shisui... instead of once a decade... and why its been shown hashirama's chakra can take the SG to a whole other level when combined with the SG/MS/EMS as it did with edo madara...

WHy is it with three serious implications of shisui not only having, but needing hashirama's chakra to even have Kotoamatsukami... is it people still believe he has just basic uchiha abilities as well as power???



Explain how this is a logical conclusion exactly??? SHisui can awaken and use Koto easily, but no other uchiha with the same power can... the only logical conclusion is that shisui had such a powerful chakra that it takes hashirama's chakra to equal its power to actually use shisui's Kotoamatsukami... don't you think.....

If hashirama's chakra is required for the use of Kotoamatsukami then shisui himself must of had an amazingly powerful chakra... which is why it had a special color... also why AO could not tell it from the hashirama chakra in danzou's arm and shoulder...

Also, you know why shisui's chakra was seen in danzou's right arm, shoulder and EYE... not because it was shisui's arm or that the power of his eye was flowing into the shoulder and arm... its because the hashirama chakra is what danzou was using to power the eye as its needed due to the power required to use the eye properly... The power being used in the eye was simply due to the fact hashirama's chakra was required to use the jutsu properly... as opposed to any other chakra of any uchiha....

If anything, just explain to me how shisui could create such a powerful genjutsu and use it so easily as its original user... but anyone else besides someone using hashirama's chakra, which is the strongest out there, is required to use shisui's genjutsu as he did too...

I know I keep having to repeat myself, allot, but its no sinking in for some reason...
I actually get what u're saying, the question is how danzo knew of hashi's chakra being needed to pwer shisui's eye in the first place. Did he experiment several times b4 he found out or shisui himself told him?
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:25 AM   #123
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

Quote:
I know I keep having to repeat myself, allot, but its no sinking in for some reason...
You know what, Eric Hovind must be saying the same thing. He's pretty much regurgitating his father's arguments, but somehow people still don't buy the Earth is 6000 years old, all the species fit in a tiny arc for 40 days and that "kinds" can be defined by comparing similar mammals to a banana. Gee, I wonder why...
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:27 AM   #124
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

Here is a hint to who tobi is:

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Quotes for noobs (learn how to break up a quote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future
So you can post the second bit and i shouldnt be allowed to if i dont tell you? Why be so rude?

Anyways, here is a quotes for noobs guide


1. A basic quote

[*QUOTE][*/QUOTE]

(the * need to be removed for it to work, I put them in so you can see the text) is a basic quote that just wraps something in a quote without saying who quoted it who quoted so

[*QUOTE]this is a quote[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
this is a quote

Edit: there is a button for this, it looks like a speech bubble. If you select text and then press the button the selected text will automatically be wrapped with the quote tag


2. A quote that says who said it

[*QUOTE=who said it][*/QUOTE] this adds who said the post, manually putting that there can be useful when quoting something external. Example:

[*QUOTE=Mangastream]Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangastream
Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us
3. A quote that says who said it and links to the post where it was said

[*QUOTE=who said it;X][*/QUOTE]

Where X is the post number.

For the post that i originally quoted it would look like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]

That is what you get when you press the quote button.

4. Breaking up a quote

Now that you know how quotes work it all boils down to preference, how you want it to look like and how you want to do it.

One way of doing it is copying the latter part of the original quote [*/QUOTE] and then pasting it after each section you break up, write your reply, choose the text you want then paste it after that portion, repeat till you finish the go back and copy then paste the first part of the text at the beginning of each portion of text. Of course you can immediately copy and paste both parts of a poste so that you dont forget one in the end.

The end result would be something like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4



Which without any * would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4


Another way of doing it would be to cut and paste the second part of the quote tag after the first section of text you want to seperate then write your reply select the second part and hit he quote button (it looks like a text bubble),if you do that without anything else the end result would be

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4

Which would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4

To make it like the previous example (which wpuld be preferred, though not necessary ) copy the part that says who posted with the link to the post and paste it accordingly to the proper part in each first half of each quote tag. In my I would copy =minato uchiha;2118164 and paste it where the # is
[*QUOTE#] to get [*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] (of course with the * removed)


Of course you can use any other method you like to get to the end result, but now that you know what the end rwsult looks like I think there shouldnt be any problems
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Old 07-29-2012, 05:11 PM   #125
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

I'm just going out on a ledge here.

1. Scientifically(and sociably) it may be known that Hashirama had extremes amount of chakra( He created the forest around the Leaf village for goodness Sake's).
2. Danzou got his "power Ups" implanted via Orochimaru. (stated by Tobi)
3. Orochimaru knew the capabilities of Hashi DNA (ex: Yamato)
4. Uchiha's don't need extra accessories to use their OWN abilities. Obviously the guy (shusi) used his tech more than once. He more than likely had a moral code of his own that he didn't SPAM it. We don't know how much concentration it might takes.
5. Itachi was telling NARUTO that HE (as in Naruto)would NEED Hashirama Senju chakra to use the eye any sooner than 10 years. NOT everyone including Shisui. Keep in mind Naruto PROBABLY HAS the same amount as the 1st, BUT Itachi wouldn't know that.
5b. Danzo was injected with Hashi DNA strictly to maintain the Sharinghans and the jutsu he would use with them.


EDIT: More about the Mind control jutsu. You have to think it is NOT a battle primed jutsu you are literally making decisions THROUGH that person. You would have to plan it through to do it right. Except of course unless it is something simple like "I am jumping off this cliff".
BUT changing someone's mind AFTER you stop controlling them is a different story. Let's say he placed it on Danzou okay so what about The Uchiha that were planning the Coup ? He gonna do it to ALL of them? No cause then HE would be taking the free will from most of his clans leaders. He was similar to Naruto, that being said... if it was as simple as "Protect Konoha" I am sure it would have been done.
Danzou got his eye because he ordered him to give it to him. But far as him putting mind control on Itachi? No, what would the command be? "Love Konoha more than your people except Sasuke, pretend to be evil so he can be strong and oh yeah kill the clan too while your at it.PS, if you die and come back under Edo Tensei, this will still be in effect."

In other words If there was a trick pulled on Itachi then it wasn't THAT detailed just a simple facade (like he did to Sasuke) from a friend, NO MS genjutsu...lol.


I know a lot of you guys have high IQ's and degrees that mean your really smart. But sometimes, just sometimes it doesn't take so much thinking . My feeble 134 IQ is all it takes at times.

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Old 07-30-2012, 12:50 PM   #126
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
You know what, Eric Hovind must be saying the same thing. He's pretty much regurgitating his father's arguments, but somehow people still don't buy the Earth is 6000 years old, all the species fit in a tiny arc for 40 days and that "kinds" can be defined by comparing similar mammals to a banana. Gee, I wonder why...
This has no relevance to my argument. Thats an argument of belief based on nothing but the plagiarism of much earlier belief that the Egyptians already had, that was also based on nothing other then astrology and imagination itself... Nothing compared to an argument about reasoning of a genjutsu requiring something "hashirama's chakra" for proper use must also be whats required for the very awakening, creation of the genjutsu in the first place.

Its not hard...

:No Other chakra, but hashirama's can use shisui's eye but once a decade...

:SHisui's chakra has already been mistaken for hashirama's chakra.. after the use of his genjutsu because danzou was using it, with hashirama's chakra too... just as itachi said it has to be...

Conclusion: For some reason or another, shisui had hashirama's chakra...

I mean how exactly does hashirama's chakra become a requirement for proper use, because no other chakra will due, not even uchiha's chakra... but any other chakra or uchiha's could possibly awaken, create such a powerful genjutsu that requires hashirama's chakra for proper use...

Don't you think that it would be a more reasonable conclusion that if hashirama's chakra is a requirement for proper use then the power that had to of been used to actually awaken, create such a powerful genjutsu had to be the same chakra, or a chakra just as strong as the chakra that is required to power it properly...

IMO, shisui most likely got it from being an unknown survivor of Orochimaru's experiment in which he injected hashirama's blood into sixty children and one was known to survive... ANd as an uchiha, a descendant of RS himself, just as madara was to... who was able to fuse with hashirama's cells completely as seen in recent chapters. SHisui can likely do the same as well... So if he really was one of the children then he most likely would have survived...
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Old 07-30-2012, 12:58 PM   #127
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
And DANZOU DID NOT HAVE SHISUI'S ARM, IT NEVER HAPPENED!!! SHow me where shisui's arm is used because multiple times only the stealing and tranplantation of shisui's eye is mention by Ao, itachi and even shisui himself in the flash back... explain to me why not only why danzou has shisui's arm without any mention what so ever...
But explain why shisui's arm is even necessary when danzou has hashirama's chakra from cell implantation which is the best chakra any shinobi can use... its 10x greater then any uchiha's power... which is why its hashirama's cells that are implanted to increase the power of the SG and not more uchiha's cells to produce more power... this is just a nonsensical argument considering how the manga has portrayed hashirama's power compared to even the uchiha's power...
While the arm itself wasn't Shisui's arm itself, it contained his chakra network to sustain the Sharingan eyes, whose powers were complemented by the Shodai's cells in the very arm. As for the chakra power and potency, it's simply because Senju had the power of the body...
Quote:
But it makes no sense... think about it... if Uchiha shisui was just a basic uchiha with basic uchiha chakra like that of sasuke, itachi, Izuna and madara then why could they not use the Kotoamatsukami eye as easily as shisui could???
While I agree that he isn't a basic Uchiha, he managed to develop his own unique technique like Tobi has (if he really is an Uchiha). Itachi used Tsukiyomi but Sasuke has never mentioned the technique's name when using his Genjutsu. Thus, we can assume that Shisui's unique MS jutsu manifested differently compared to the other Uchiha.

Itachi's ace was Tsukiyomi, Sasuke has his Enton Release, Kakashi has his Kamui and Shisui had his Kotoamatsukami.
Quote:
If it was as simple as that then Itachi would of had the power, as a very powerful uchiha, to use shisui's eye regularly too... However, itachi knew that only the power of hashirama was capable of using the eye more then once a decade... which had to be from knowing its what shisui used since everything else itachi had to of learned about Koto was from shisui as well...
That doesn't compute. Either Shisui was just gifted in Genjutsu amongst Uchihas or his Kotoamatsukami was the only Genjutsu that afforded him that unique ability. Removing an Uchiha's eye from the body where it is fueled by Uchiha chakra makes the eye operate much less effeciently with higher requirements. Heck, Kakashi used it for a single fight and passed out after possessing the Sharingan for more than a decade, to accomodate his fighting style and chakra capacity to it. So, for anyone else, the application of a specialty Genjutsu should obviously be very taxing. However, that doesn't mean that Hashirama was needed to perform the jutsu simply because it is a Sharingan jutsu, which is independent of any sort of reliance on the Senju powers. That is like saying, Hashirama's forest jutsus would be made more effective with Uchiha DNA.
Quote:
plus itachi had no way to know danzou had hashirama's chakra...
That is debatable. After the disappearance of Shisui's body, and to mention his own admittance of Danzo taking his eye, Itachi had more than enough reason to be wary of Danzo. If Ao could identify Shisui's chakra in Danzo's arm with the Byakugan, then Itachi could well have identified the chakra source of Hashirama and Shisui in Danzo's arm. He had the Uchiha eyes and the Senju chakras - the perfect combination.

With all that Itachi knows about Konoha, uncovering the truth about Danzo's misdeeds is rather feasible for Itachi, if he hadn't know it beforehand already.
Quote:
Think about it, if hashirama's chakra is what it takes to use the genjutsu regularly then its the very power it should take to awaken the jutsu as well... otherwise any other uchiha should be capable of doing the same yet no other has... not even uchiha madara with his EMS or RG...
If Hashirama's chakra is needed to awaken special Sharingan abilities, then would the converse be applicable as well? Uchiha DNA to augment Senju abilities? No such mention of this has been made so its a bit of a moot point. I strongly believe that Hashirama's chakra was used to augment the frequency of the jutsu and maybe its potency on par with the original, however, simply due to the lack of the original Uchiha body, which is the originator of the jutsu.
Quote:
Nonsensical... really.. how??? So the fact only shisui could create and use Kotoamatsukami regularly which requires hashirama's chakra to do so means nothing to anyone, other then a nonsensical conclusion for it to be used by shisui despite everything...
Already mentioned the context of relevancy of Hashirama's chakra.
Quote:
Tell me everyone... if shisui was a regular uchiha, with regular uchiha chakra like all the other MS users then why was it only shisui awakened a genjutsu beyond tsukuyomi... the most powerful one known in the manga...??? WHy is it shisui's chakra was mitsaken for hashirama's... why was it itachi explained hashirama's chakra was needed to actually use Kotoamatsukami regularly like shisui... instead of once a decade... and why its been shown hashirama's chakra can take the SG to a whole other level when combined with the SG/MS/EMS as it did with edo madara...
Shisui is not a regular Uchiha. The regular Uchihas are the unnamed Uchihas. Also, comparing Tsukiyomi and Kotoamatsukami can't be compared on the same benchmark since they differ in application, perception and consequence.

Hashirama's chakra was used to ease the effort for others wanting to use Shisui's Kotoamatsukami. His chakra helped in evolving the Sharingan into a different Doujutsu, not augmenting the individual strength of their techniques.
Quote:
WHy is it with three serious implications of shisui not only having, but needing hashirama's chakra to even have Kotoamatsukami... is it people still believe he has just basic uchiha abilities as well as power???
He was an Uchiha famed for his prowess and techniques, so he obviously wasn't a regular/basic/generic Uchiha.
Quote:
Explain how this is a logical conclusion exactly??? SHisui can awaken and use Koto easily, but no other uchiha with the same power can... the only logical conclusion is that shisui had such a powerful chakra that it takes hashirama's chakra to equal its power to actually use shisui's Kotoamatsukami... don't you think.....

If hashirama's chakra is required for the use of Kotoamatsukami then shisui himself must of had an amazingly powerful chakra... which is why it had a special color... also why AO could not tell it from the hashirama chakra in danzou's arm and shoulder...

Also, you know why shisui's chakra was seen in danzou's right arm, shoulder and EYE... not because it was shisui's arm or that the power of his eye was flowing into the shoulder and arm... its because the hashirama chakra is what danzou was using to power the eye as its needed due to the power required to use the eye properly... The power being used in the eye was simply due to the fact hashirama's chakra was required to use the jutsu properly... as opposed to any other chakra of any uchiha....

If anything, just explain to me how shisui could create such a powerful genjutsu and use it so easily as its original user... but anyone else besides someone using hashirama's chakra, which is the strongest out there, is required to use shisui's genjutsu as he did too...

I know I keep having to repeat myself, allot, but its no sinking in for some reason...
I've already explained my reasons above. Deliberate on them a bit before responding.
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Old 07-30-2012, 01:36 PM   #128
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

I missed your post jericho...

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jericho Uzimaki View Post
I'm just going out on a ledge here.

1. Scientifically(and sociably) it may be known that Hashirama had extremes amount of chakra( He created the forest around the Leaf village for goodness Sake's).
2. Danzou got his "power Ups" implanted via Orochimaru. (stated by Tobi)
3. Orochimaru knew the capabilities of Hashi DNA (ex: Yamato)
4. Uchiha's don't need extra accessories to use their OWN abilities. Obviously the guy (shusi) used his tech more than once. He more than likely had a moral code of his own that he didn't SPAM it. We don't know how much concentration it might takes.
5. Itachi was telling NARUTO that HE (as in Naruto)would NEED Hashirama Senju chakra to use the eye any sooner than 10 years. NOT everyone including Shisui. Keep in mind Naruto PROBABLY HAS the same amount as the 1st, BUT Itachi wouldn't know that.
5b. Danzo was injected with Hashi DNA strictly to maintain the Sharinghans and the jutsu he would use with them.
I think You are under the impression that it takes quantity of chakra judging by your post when I think its quality of chakra which only hashirama himself had, that we have not seen since naruto's own Yang chakra kyuubi mode which also reacted with ashirama's power/mokuton element...

IMO, with hashirama senju having abilities of both the senju and uzumaki clan...(physical energy, powerful chakra=senju and powerful life energy and vitality=uzumaki power as stated by the manga) Its why his chakra is so special IMO... With hashirama's close relationship to the uzumaki, I think its very likely considering the uzumaki and senju are probably both directly descended from RS's younger son who inherited the Yang portion of his fathers thus the juubi's power which is based on Physical energy and life energy...

Quote:
EDIT: More about the Mind control jutsu. You have to think it is NOT a battle primed jutsu you are literally making decisions THROUGH that person. You would have to plan it through to do it right. Except of course unless it is something simple like "I am jumping off this cliff".
BUT changing someone's mind AFTER you stop controlling them is a different story. Let's say he placed it on Danzou okay so what about The Uchiha that were planning the Coup ? He gonna do it to ALL of them? No cause then HE would be taking the free will from most of his clans leaders. He was similar to Naruto, that being said... if it was as simple as "Protect Konoha" I am sure it would have been done.
Danzou got his eye because he ordered him to give it to him. But far as him putting mind control on Itachi? No, what would the command be? "Love Konoha more than your people except Sasuke, pretend to be evil so he can be strong and oh yeah kill the clan too while your at it.PS, if you die and come back under Edo Tensei, this will still be in effect."
Except clearly shisui can be seen wielding his kotoamatsukami while explaining his failure of stopping the coup while losing his eye to danzou... look...(shisui;s only eye is in MS form while shisui is explaining his vague and illogical story to itachi)http://www.mangakong.com/manga/Naruto/590/11

Then notice that when itachi got the eye from shisui, it was not in MS form, but in SG form instead which can only mean the MS was used from the time he was explaining his story to taking out his eye to give it to itachi... We know it had to be regular SG because itachi said himself that he could not use shisui's eye until ten years after that moment, thus it was not in MS form otherwise itachi could of used it to stop the Coup d'etat...

Think about it... why would shisui have his eye in MS form while trying to explain an unreasonable reason why he failed and had to die... then give it back in regular SG form...

IMO, because shisui used his Koto eye to make itachi, who knew just how strong he and his genjutsu was, believe it could actually fail so easily as well as shisui lose an eye to danzou in a fight... And the only reason shisui would possibly give his MS eye back in SG form is because he just used it and did not want itachi to have the power to stop the coup on his own...

think about it... there is a problem with shisui's logic... he wanted itachi to use his eye to protect the village which is the whole premise for his giving itachi his eye , but instead of giving it to itachi in MS form as it clearly was... in order to be used to mind control his father into stopping the coup, thus stopping a revolution that could tear the leaf village apart... instead it was given in SG form because shisui had just used it or just wanted the coup d'etat to happen...

:SHisui somehow fails to control anyone in the hierarchy of konoha or the uchiha... despite the fact Koto has the power to control and EMS user, even when being used by a crow with a simple comand implanted as well as break the control of edo tensai which not even madara's EMS+RG doujutsu could which is why he had to use a release of his summoning contract as opposed to breaking out by force with a more powerful mind control jutsu like itachi did...

:SHisui again fails to stop the coup by giving itachi his eye in basic SG form which cannot be used for mind control... despite the fact it was in MS form for use of Kotoamatsukami right before shisui gave itachi his eye, it was charged up and ready to used...

Obviously shisui did not want the coup to be stopped because he on two separate occasions had the opportunity to stop it with his genjutsu, but just didn't...

Quote:
In other words If there was a trick pulled on Itachi then it wasn't THAT detailed just a simple facade (like he did to Sasuke) from a friend, NO MS genjutsu...lol.


I know a lot of you guys have high IQ's and degrees that mean your really smart. But sometimes, just sometimes it doesn't take so much thinking . My feeble 134 IQ is all it takes at times.
You are not taking into consideration the fact shisui clearly had his SG in MS form, charged up... yet once itachi got it, it was back in regular SG form meaning it had to of been used because the eye was already charged up as seen in the panel with shisui explaining his vague story of failure to stop the coup and protect his other eye...
And since itachi needed the decade it takes for his chakra to recharge the eye... itachi clearly did not get the eye back in MS form as it was just moments before itachi got it to somehow protect the village with its uselessness for another decade while the coup was merely days away...

You see what I am trying to point out here?

EDIT: SOmething to consider... how did tobi know about Orochimaru's experiments with hashirama's blood, cells and power? He knew of his ability to use hashirama's cells in experimentation as well as danzou's use of Orochimaru for his own purposes... Not even itachi knew of that... only hiruzen, Yamato, kakashi and now team kakashi also know of this... For tobi to know this he would of had to of been involved with Orochimaru and his experiments as a fellow shinobi scientist like Oro...

Oro even knew of his own plans to revive the juubi... making tobi wonder how much Oro really knew, showing anger and surprise as a reaction.
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:33 PM   #129
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

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Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
While the arm itself wasn't Shisui's arm itself, it contained his chakra network to sustain the Sharingan eyes, whose powers were complemented by the Shodai's cells in the very arm. As for the chakra power and potency, it's simply because Senju had the power of the body...
Were did you get "chakra network " From??? What was shown was hashirama's chakra in danzou's arm, shoulder and powering shisui's eye too, as its supposed to. It was reveled that the chakra in danzou's arm, shoulder and eye was shisui's because it had the same special color... such a special color AO could never forget... But in actuality, it was not shisui's chakra being used by that arm, but hashirama's chakra from cell implantation.

So in the end, AO had mistaken hashirama's chakra for shisui's because they both apparently have the same special color... which was the first imlication of shisui having hashirama chakra or something just as strong...

And the senju's do have a powerful body from powerful physical energy, but its only hashirama himself, the only senju in history, that had a powerful body equal or close to that of RS's younger son with both the physical energy of the senju as well as the powerful life force energy of the uzumaki...


Quote:
While I agree that he isn't a basic Uchiha, he managed to develop his own unique technique like Tobi has (if he really is an Uchiha). Itachi used Tsukiyomi but Sasuke has never mentioned the technique's name when using his Genjutsu. Thus, we can assume that Shisui's unique MS jutsu manifested differently compared to the other Uchiha.

Itachi's ace was Tsukiyomi, Sasuke has his Enton Release, Kakashi has his Kamui and Shisui had his Kotoamatsukami.
But the basic genjutsu alongn with a ninjutsu awakened by an uchiha is Tsukuyomi as stated by the DB#3... And sasuke did use tsukuyomi here against danzou right after he was cursed then immobilized... Danzou confimrs sasuke is using tsukuyomi because he compares it to itachi's which can control time and space...

Then because Madara can use sasanoo... he has to have tsukuyomi and amaterasu as MS jutsu because their mastery is required for sasanoo's use as stated by the DB#3 too...

So itachi and sasuke had tsukuyomi... then if madara's eye's combined with his brother Izuna's then he as well had to of had tsukuyomi... meaning both izuna and madara had tsukuyomi and amaterasu for their MS jutsu just as itachi and sasuke did...

Yet, somehow shisui was able to awaken Kotoamatsukami which way surpasses tsukuyomi as a genjutsu... and just as the combining of hashirama's chakra with Edo madara's EMS... it was taken to a whole other level becoming the RG. Then tobi also having hashirama's chakra from cell implantation, just happens to have a T/S jutsu that surpasses amaterasu...
IMO, the use of hashirama's chakra must of been the reason for shisui awakening kotoamatsukami as opposed to the average tsukuyomi... this is aslo validated by the fact hashirama's chakra is required for Koto's proper use as well...

However, kakashi hatake was able to train his chakra and awaken a MS t/s barrier jutsu called kamui... and he does not have hashirama chakra... But with kamui being a mere time space barrier ninjutsu unlike tobi's time space jutsu that acts as a whirlpool in space that can draw anything in as well as spit it back out...
IMO, kakashi will end being directly related to the younger son of RS's through either the senju or uzumaki... which is why he could awaken a jutsu that surpasses amaterasu, but not quite as effective as tobi's...

Quote:
That is debatable. After the disappearance of Shisui's body, and to mention his own admittance of Danzo taking his eye, Itachi had more than enough reason to be wary of Danzo. If Ao could identify Shisui's chakra in Danzo's arm with the Byakugan, then Itachi could well have identified the chakra source of Hashirama and Shisui in Danzo's arm. He had the Uchiha eyes and the Senju chakras - the perfect combination.

With all that Itachi knows about Konoha, uncovering the truth about Danzo's misdeeds is rather feasible for Itachi, if he hadn't know it beforehand already.
The SG cannot deduce chakra to the amount of detail the BG can... itachi even using his SG or MS could not of seen shisui's special chakra in danzou's arm, or hashirama's chakra either... Itachi would not even know what hashirama's chakra looked like unless shisui had the same chakra and itachi saw his, using it as an example...
There is just no evidence to show itachi knew anything about danzou's use of hashirama's chakra, ten SG's ect... only his use of shisui's eye because shisui told him he took it...

Quote:
If Hashirama's chakra is needed to awaken special Sharingan abilities, then would the converse be applicable as well? Uchiha DNA to augment Senju abilities? No such mention of this has been made so its a bit of a moot point. I strongly believe that Hashirama's chakra was used to augment the frequency of the jutsu and maybe its potency on par with the original, however, simply due to the lack of the original Uchiha body, which is the originator of the jutsu.
No, the SG has no way to augment the body because it is a doujutsu... only a powerful body that produces a powerful chakra can augment a doujutsu because the doujutsu is used by the very same chakra produced by the body... It seems physical energy and life force energy breed spiritual and mental energy... which is why the SG's power (YIN nature chakra) becomes even more powerful...

Again, itachi said himself that ONLY hashirama's chakra could power Kotoamatsukami regularly, as opposed to any other including uchiha's chakra, that can only once a decade... WIth this in mind, how could shisui as a mere uchiha with basic uchiha chakra ever possibly awaken much less use his own genjutsu more then ocne a decade meaning he could only use his own genjutsu two times if he awakened it at age 12, supposedly dying at age 22 ten years later...

Quote:
Shisui is not a regular Uchiha. The regular Uchihas are the unnamed Uchihas. Also, comparing Tsukiyomi and Kotoamatsukami can't be compared on the same benchmark since they differ in application, perception and consequence.

Hashirama's chakra was used to ease the effort for others wanting to use Shisui's Kotoamatsukami. His chakra helped in evolving the Sharingan into a different Doujutsu, not augmenting the individual strength of their techniques.
itachi, sasuke, madara and Izuna are regular uchiha's with regular uchiha chakra as well which is why they awakened MS jutu's tsukuyomi and amaterasu... as opposed to shisui who was not regular because he had a special chakra powerful enough to rival hashirama's which is why its required to use his genjutsu properly as he did...

And yes hashirama did augment the SG... with the RG being the final level of the SG after the EMS... then hashirama's chakra has to augment the SG's power to reacha whole other level. This same concept is used for shisui... as his Kotoamatsukami is tsukuyomi on a whole other level, with a four tomoe version of itachi's MS for a design...

Quote:
He was an Uchiha famed for his prowess and techniques, so he obviously wasn't a regular/basic/generic Uchiha.
I've already explained my reasons above. Deliberate on them a bit before responding.
Obviously shisui was not a basic uchiha... However, I believe your idea of a basic uchiha is a bit off... a basic uchiha are those who have no other bloodlines of the sage... thus awaken the basic MS jutsu amaterasu, tsukuyomi and maybe even sasanoo...
think about it... If hashirama's chakra can increase the power of the EMS thus becoming the RG... then the use of hashirama's chakra must be capable of increasing the power of a basic SG to a whole other level I call a MS+... which is a MS beyond that of the basic MS... just as the RG is a MS beyond that of the EMS, as its final level...

SHisui had a four tomoe MS version of itachi's MS... the basic MS are three tomoe in design so its likely the way to measure its level... thus why a EMS is the combination of two three tomoe MSs that then become a six tomoe MS...

I understand what you are saying, but I think you missed allot of my points and should deliberate on them...
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And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


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People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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Old 07-30-2012, 03:22 PM   #130
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

Comes in to check new post. Spots giant fucking wall of text from KYF. Leaves the page.

That's the reaction that most of us should have.
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:31 PM   #131
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

Yep, every week there is a debate over some small detail and it takes up 60% of a thread discussion. I see a long post with a bunch of quotes and just leave.
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:42 PM   #132
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

lol, you know what would be hysterical.

If Tobi's S/T jutsu had nothing to do with Sharingan, and the guy was just there for show so people thought he was an Uchiha. Man, that would put a kink in everybody's theory.
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4. Kage Summit was a tad disappointing simply because we didn't see any of the charcters that SHOULD have been introduced during the chuunin exams.

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Old 07-30-2012, 10:30 PM   #133
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

Kyf I kinda agree with Jericho. I think shisui could use the kotoama jutsu more often that once every ten yrs, it probably took a toll on him but I think shisui was extra ordinary uchiha that didn't get the chance to take his sharingan to its max. He has to be strong if he was itachis mentor (iirc).

I think that the jutsu is so powerful that you have to have powerful chakra to use the tech. The only person known to have chakra that strong that all of the old heads of Konoha knew was the first hokoge. That's y oro experimented with it soo much. That's y Danzo needed it to do what he did..

We all kno that if your using someone's sharingan and ur not a uchiha it has a tremendous effect on the body. Kakashi damn near dies from exhaustion using his... If he had naruto or the firsts chakra it wouldn't be that bad... U see? I think kotoama is so strong that even itach who isn't known for being a chakra tank wasn't able to use it like that and they eyes themselves has a cool down time of ten yrs..I mean how old was shisui wen he died? When did he first discover kotoama? 10? 12? Then again at 20 something??
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:18 AM   #134
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

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Originally Posted by Amuro View Post
I think that the jutsu is so powerful that you have to have powerful chakra to use the tech. The only person known to have chakra that strong that all of the old heads of Konoha knew was the first hokoge. That's y oro experimented with it soo much. That's y Danzo needed it to do what he did..
And I think all kyf is saying is dat since his strong chakra can be compared to hashirama then there may be the possibilty that he possessed the same chakra as hashirama.
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:38 AM   #135
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Re: Naruto 595 Discussion

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This has no relevance to my argument. Thats an argument of belief based on nothing but the plagiarism of much earlier belief that the Egyptians already had, that was also based on nothing other then astrology and imagination itself... Nothing compared to an argument about reasoning of a genjutsu requiring something "hashirama's chakra" for proper use must also be whats required for the very awakening, creation of the genjutsu in the first place.
Oh the irony, it's so delicious!


But since you're condemning Hovindian creationism, what's your stance on biological diversity? I'd be pleased if you talked about it more than "I'm pro-evolution". It'd be refreshing to have a clever discussion with you on something that isn't goddamn Naruto. I'm sure that you can come up with interesting arguments...

Quote:
:No Other chakra, but hashirama's can use shisui's eye but once a decade...

:SHisui's chakra has already been mistaken for hashirama's chakra.. after the use of his genjutsu because danzou was using it, with hashirama's chakra too... just as itachi said it has to be...

Conclusion: For some reason or another, shisui had hashirama's chakra...
... and suddenly I'm not so sure anymore.
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