US Ambassador in Libya Killed - Page 3

emachina · 09-14-2012, 05:09 PM

Murder to politics to religion to gay marriage to swapping nudez.

I love this place.

**Miburo** · 09-14-2012, 05:10 PM

@Van- I still need to send you a box of shit first. I meant to do it earlier, but I was way too poor. Should be good now though. What size t-shirt you cool with? They're dude shirts, and mostly M and L, but I might be able to get a S. Gotta look around. And you okay with prepackaged pastries? Can get coffee kakes, candy kakes, pies, whatever. I'm really bad at thinking of awesome things to mail, haha.

Vanity · 09-14-2012, 05:13 PM

I'm cool with anything, honestly. I PM'd you for e-mail, so geev eet to me.

And it's cute that you think I can squeeze my tits into a small <3 I like large pr extra larges, because then I don't stretch the fabric -_-

Also, there's some serious shit going on in the Egyptian capital like...right now.

xxMESTxx · 09-14-2012, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanity

Also, there's some serious shit going on in the Egyptian capital like...right now.

Like...what?

Edit: The arrival of the Marines in Yemen?

Vanity · 09-14-2012, 05:27 PM

I just turned on CCN. There's either a riot, or a protest that's going sour really fast.

Edit: just came back on. It was a protest, and the government is currently tear gassing them, and shooting rubber bullets.

I'm not sure what's causing it, actually. I caught the end of it, and they keep moving on to Libya.

jekyl_hyde · 09-14-2012, 05:58 PM

Fridays are a "rallying" day for Muslims for some reason. ABC News, CBS News, Fox News, and NBC all ran news reports on the protests that were known of last night. Pretty much everything that is going on today was expected.

@Mest
The Marines were supposed to have arrived early this morning U.S. time with the destroyers that are off the coast in Libya. At least that was what was reported by the aforementioned news providers.

xxMESTxx · 09-14-2012, 06:00 PM

Been searching around google, this was all I could find so far though. Can't find the reason either. Maybe it's just a reaction to our Marines touching ground?

Tzu Men · 09-14-2012, 06:24 PM

Got to be honest, I only read the first eight posts or so - it's 11pm and I've been reading endless walls of texts all day sorry. From scanning over the others it seems that I mostly agree with you guys anyway though.

I think that the second-most disgusting thing, other than the idiotic mob killing those people, is how Romney jumped on Obama immediately after it happened. It's just ruthless political gain. It is entirely out of Obama's control and any step he took would be wrong in Republican eyes.

I agree with Nero that there should be some control over freedom of speech in America. Everyone should have freedom of speech - but when something you're saying is clearly inflammatory and is going to put peoples' lives at risk it's stupid. The person who made that film endangered national security (actually all Western embassies now) and nothing positive has been accomplished by his actions. The film is a rehash of a film released over the summer, and the most ridiculous thing is that it hardly exists - Roger Ebert was right saying that it's a political statement rather than a film. It existed entirely to provoke a backlash from equally radical Muslims. Religious fanatics abound. Muslims in general do need to develop a thicker skin (and a better sense of humour in this country), no religion can expect pardon from ridicule, but this film was just insulting.

Freedom is 'Merican and all that but it's legally straightforward to make hateful morons like that shut the fuck up. Britain can be a bit Orwellian but nobody felt as if we were in a police state when Captain Hook got detained.

The Muslims who attacked the embassy are the ones who committed the crime, they are the savages. I am not criticising that. But rather than listening to Romney I do fucking wish that Americans would realise that people like those film makers are baiting tragedies. They don't care who they offend because it's not their blood that has to pay the price. They're parasites just as much as the thugs in Benghazi are monsters.

Edit: I do appreciate the American legal system is a mess for conducting anything practical, but I'd still stick to my point. Restricting freedom of speech won't happen in America for all the obvious reasons, but it still should.

Vanity · 09-14-2012, 07:02 PM

One of the issues with a greater restriction on freedom of speech is how to word such a restriction: What is the baselines limitations [such as inciting a riot, or being the direct cause of harming others]? What is the line between offense and national security? When is it going against our constitution, or when is it too loose, making it nearly impossible to enforce? Is there going to be a screening for everything of this nature? Who's job will it be to filter speech? How is this going to affect taxes?

This would need to be an amendment and those are excruciatingly difficult to attain.

stubborn_d0nkey · 09-14-2012, 07:23 PM

I didn't watch the movie, don't know that much about all this and I didn't read all the posts here, but this whole restricting freedom of speech thing, really?

I don't know about you guys, but I took this as being a case of an irrational person doing something irrational which irrational people took irrationally and responded to irrationally.

**Miburo** · 09-14-2012, 07:25 PM

I dunno guys. Edit: I agree with this guy^

Should we really make laws against pissing off fucking savages because they conduct themselves like they are rabid chimpanzees or some shit and can't handle a guy making a youtube video that upsets them without going out and murdering innocent people? It's not like the goddamn movie was US government funded or anything. Fuck off, you goddamn savages.

Yeah, the loss of innocent lives is horrible and tragic. It's really, really goddamn upsetting. And it certainly isn't necessary for people to be trying to piss these guys off. But come on. Fuck those guys, seriously. What the fuck are these countries doing about all the goddamn psychopath murderers they have as citizens? If our country is going to do something about it, we should do something that doesn't involve trying to appease monsters at the expense of our own citizens' freedoms. Like get on these guys to clean up their shithole countries to the point where foreign diplomats aren't being murdered and having their corpses dragged through the streets because of some low budget, shitty movie. Which really shouldn't be a lot to ask.

Besides, if the US made pissing off crazy sand savages illegal it would seriously do nothing. Because then someone in holland or some shit would draw a cartoon that displeases these barbarians and they'd go behead some americans anyway if they could get their hands on them. Or brits, or canadians, or sweds, or whoever they can find. Because they don't fucking care. They're seriously goddamn cave men. Cave man mad. Cave man allah ackbar people. That's what they do. It doesn't matter who does it, probably wouldn't matter if anyone even did anything. Get some chinese dude to stroll around over there all by himself and they're probably saw his head off with a jagged rock if they get the chance and say they did it because he was a filthy infidel or some shit. It doesn't matter. They're monsters.

Tzu Men · 09-14-2012, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanity

One of the issues with a greater restriction on freedom of speech is how to word such a restriction: What is the baselines limitations [such as inciting a riot, or being the direct cause of harming others]? What is the line between offense and national security? When is it going against our constitution, or when is it too loose, making it nearly impossible to enforce? Is there going to be a screening for everything of this nature? Who's job will it be to filter speech? How is this going to affect taxes?

This would need to be an amendment and those are excruciatingly difficult to attain.

Yeah, having a constitution makes that difficult.

Our system in the UK certainly has definite flaws, but because law is decided largely by precedent we circumvent shit like that...

stubborn_d0nkey · 09-14-2012, 07:36 PM

AFAIK US law is also precedent based (perhaps not the best word)

Tzu Men · 09-14-2012, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miburo

I dunno guys. Edit: I agree with this guy^

Should we really make laws against pissing off fucking savages because they conduct themselves like they are rabid chimpanzees or some shit and can't handle a guy making a youtube video that upsets them without going out and murdering innocent people? It's not like the goddamn movie was US government funded or anything. Fuck off, you goddamn savages.

Yeah, the loss of innocent lives is horrible and tragic. It's really, really goddamn upsetting. And it certainly isn't necessary for people to be trying to piss these guys off. But come on. Fuck those guys, seriously. What the fuck are these countries doing about all the goddamn psychopath murderers they have as citizens? If our country is going to do something about it, we should do something that doesn't involve trying to appease monsters at the expense of our own citizens' freedoms. Like get on these guys to clean up their shithole countries to the point where foreign diplomats aren't being murdered and having their corpses dragged through the streets because of some low budget, shitty movie. Which really shouldn't be a lot to ask.

Besides, if the US made pissing off crazy sand savages illegal it would seriously do nothing. Because then someone in holland or some shit would draw a cartoon that displeases these barbarians and they'd go behead some americans anyway if they could get their hands on them. Or brits, or canadians, or sweds, or whoever they can find. Because they don't fucking care. They're seriously goddamn cave men. Cave man mad. Cave man allah ackbar people. That's what they do. It doesn't matter who does it, probably wouldn't matter if anyone even did anything. Get some chinese dude to stroll around over there all by himself and they're probably saw his head off with a jagged rock if they get the chance and say they did it because he was a filthy infidel or some shit. It doesn't matter. They're monsters.

I do understand where you are coming from, but I still think that having a system in place to try and stop idiotic shit like this from happening is better than not.

So yeah, the Muslims who can't tolerate anything against their religion are ridiculous and there shouldn't be a law limiting others' freedom to protect scrubs like them. But you're right - they are savages, they aren't going to change. In that same way though, there are always going to be people like that. Even if the Middle East magically got its shit together tomorrow it'll only be a matter of time before a similar ethnic or religious group gets wound up over nothing. Putting some limitations on your own people is the crappier thing to do, but it's the only thing that will work. It's the pragmatic solution rather than the ideal.

I'd like for any barbarians like these people not to exist, but that will not ever happen. The very least you can do is stop handing them such easy reasons to go ape shit and kill people. Batshit religious people are a resigned fact of the era we live in. It is sacrificing some freedom to those who don't deserve it, but there's a living cost to extending it to such extremes.

That said, I am implying that there is a line of distinction.

Things like drawing Muhammed are fine - that's so inconsequential as an action, that it causing people to be killed is more or less inevitable. I wouldn't limit that. The savages who go crazy over things like that would have done so anyway. But I think that this film is different because there's nothing to it other than deliberate provocation. There's no humour or insight, or public interest in it. That's kind of behaviour provokes the dumbshits who are near-savages into being savages and it happens meaninglessly. At least making fun of a religion has meaning to it. The embassy workers died for nothing other than the right to outright insult - I'd die for the right to laugh at or mock, or to tell the truth, but not for what is a borderline hate crime.

I do agree with you, but eradicating stupidity is realistically impossible and some limits on freedom of speech are worthy, if regrettable, forms of damage limitation.

Vanity · 09-14-2012, 08:00 PM

Freedom of speech is a difficult beast to deal with even without this incident. As an example: There was a case of a young girl that posted a youtube video that slandered another chick, and she got suspended from her school for it. However, and attorney stepped in and said that she was using her right to free speech and the school had no right to punish her for it, and they ruled in her favour, forcing the school to reverse their suspension. It's understandable that the ruling was reversed, but some people ask "well what about the victim?" Since it was slanderous in nature, and that's not a protected speech.

Freedom of speech exists to protect the people from the force of the government, but the government exists to protect it's people. So when is it time for the government to step in to protect? Where does it begin and where does it end? Any more restrictions on it would be nearly impossible to define in a clear way.

Edit: oh shit. Way to type faster than me while I'm distracted.

09-14-2012, 05:09 PM	#31
emachina Jounin Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 809 Thanks: 427 Thanked 596 Times in 197 Posts	Re: US Ambassador in Libya Killed Murder to politics to religion to gay marriage to swapping nudez. I love this place.

09-14-2012, 05:10 PM	#32
Miburo Deos Fortioribus Adesse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Valhalla Posts: 3,543 Thanks: 34,417 Thanked 17,643 Times in 5,442 Posts	Re: US Ambassador in Libya Killed @Van- I still need to send you a box of shit first. I meant to do it earlier, but I was way too poor. Should be good now though. What size t-shirt you cool with? They're dude shirts, and mostly M and L, but I might be able to get a S. Gotta look around. And you okay with prepackaged pastries? Can get coffee kakes, candy kakes, pies, whatever. I'm really bad at thinking of awesome things to mail, haha.

09-14-2012, 05:13 PM	#33
Vanity Succumb Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 976 Thanks: 3,432 Thanked 5,983 Times in 2,238 Posts	Re: US Ambassador in Libya Killed I'm cool with anything, honestly. I PM'd you for e-mail, so geev eet to me. And it's cute that you think I can squeeze my tits into a small <3 I like large pr extra larges, because then I don't stretch the fabric -_- Also, there's some serious shit going on in the Egyptian capital like...right now. __________________ My nerves are bad to-night. Yes, bad. Stay with me. Speak to me. Why do you never speak? Speak. What are you thinking of? What thinking? What? I never know what you are thinking. Think.

09-14-2012, 05:27 PM	#35
Vanity Succumb Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 976 Thanks: 3,432 Thanked 5,983 Times in 2,238 Posts	Re: US Ambassador in Libya Killed I just turned on CCN. There's either a riot, or a protest that's going sour really fast. Edit: just came back on. It was a protest, and the government is currently tear gassing them, and shooting rubber bullets. I'm not sure what's causing it, actually. I caught the end of it, and they keep moving on to Libya. __________________ My nerves are bad to-night. Yes, bad. Stay with me. Speak to me. Why do you never speak? Speak. What are you thinking of? What thinking? What? I never know what you are thinking. Think. Last edited by Vanity; 09-14-2012 at 05:39 PM.

09-14-2012, 05:58 PM	#36
jekyl_hyde Hunter-Nin Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,022 Thanks: 612 Thanked 1,047 Times in 399 Posts	Re: US Ambassador in Libya Killed Fridays are a "rallying" day for Muslims for some reason. ABC News, CBS News, Fox News, and NBC all ran news reports on the protests that were known of last night. Pretty much everything that is going on today was expected. @Mest The Marines were supposed to have arrived early this morning U.S. time with the destroyers that are off the coast in Libya. At least that was what was reported by the aforementioned news providers. Last edited by jekyl_hyde; 09-14-2012 at 06:00 PM.

09-14-2012, 06:00 PM	#37
xxMESTxx EffYouSeeKay Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: The Mountains Age: 21 Posts: 908 Thanks: 1,343 Thanked 606 Times in 300 Posts	Re: US Ambassador in Libya Killed Been searching around google, this was all I could find so far though. Can't find the reason either. Maybe it's just a reaction to our Marines touching ground? __________________ "Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." -M. K. Gandhi

09-14-2012, 06:24 PM	#38
Tzu Men hostis humani generis Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 714 Thanks: 4,010 Thanked 2,695 Times in 859 Posts	Re: US Ambassador in Libya Killed Got to be honest, I only read the first eight posts or so - it's 11pm and I've been reading endless walls of texts all day sorry. From scanning over the others it seems that I mostly agree with you guys anyway though. I think that the second-most disgusting thing, other than the idiotic mob killing those people, is how Romney jumped on Obama immediately after it happened. It's just ruthless political gain. It is entirely out of Obama's control and any step he took would be wrong in Republican eyes. I agree with Nero that there should be some control over freedom of speech in America. Everyone should have freedom of speech - but when something you're saying is clearly inflammatory and is going to put peoples' lives at risk it's stupid. The person who made that film endangered national security (actually all Western embassies now) and nothing positive has been accomplished by his actions. The film is a rehash of a film released over the summer, and the most ridiculous thing is that it hardly exists - Roger Ebert was right saying that it's a political statement rather than a film. It existed entirely to provoke a backlash from equally radical Muslims. Religious fanatics abound. Muslims in general do need to develop a thicker skin (and a better sense of humour in this country), no religion can expect pardon from ridicule, but this film was just insulting. Freedom is 'Merican and all that but it's legally straightforward to make hateful morons like that shut the fuck up. Britain can be a bit Orwellian but nobody felt as if we were in a police state when Captain Hook got detained. The Muslims who attacked the embassy are the ones who committed the crime, they are the savages. I am not criticising that. But rather than listening to Romney I do fucking wish that Americans would realise that people like those film makers are baiting tragedies. They don't care who they offend because it's not their blood that has to pay the price. They're parasites just as much as the thugs in Benghazi are monsters. Edit: I do appreciate the American legal system is a mess for conducting anything practical, but I'd still stick to my point. Restricting freedom of speech won't happen in America for all the obvious reasons, but it still should. Last edited by Tzu Men; 09-14-2012 at 06:43 PM.

09-14-2012, 07:02 PM	#39
Vanity Succumb Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 976 Thanks: 3,432 Thanked 5,983 Times in 2,238 Posts	Re: US Ambassador in Libya Killed One of the issues with a greater restriction on freedom of speech is how to word such a restriction: What is the baselines limitations [such as inciting a riot, or being the direct cause of harming others]? What is the line between offense and national security? When is it going against our constitution, or when is it too loose, making it nearly impossible to enforce? Is there going to be a screening for everything of this nature? Who's job will it be to filter speech? How is this going to affect taxes? This would need to be an amendment and those are excruciatingly difficult to attain. __________________ My nerves are bad to-night. Yes, bad. Stay with me. Speak to me. Why do you never speak? Speak. What are you thinking of? What thinking? What? I never know what you are thinking. Think.

09-14-2012, 07:25 PM	#41
Miburo Deos Fortioribus Adesse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Valhalla Posts: 3,543 Thanks: 34,417 Thanked 17,643 Times in 5,442 Posts	Re: US Ambassador in Libya Killed I dunno guys. Edit: I agree with this guy^ Should we really make laws against pissing off fucking savages because they conduct themselves like they are rabid chimpanzees or some shit and can't handle a guy making a youtube video that upsets them without going out and murdering innocent people? It's not like the goddamn movie was US government funded or anything. Fuck off, you goddamn savages. Yeah, the loss of innocent lives is horrible and tragic. It's really, really goddamn upsetting. And it certainly isn't necessary for people to be trying to piss these guys off. But come on. Fuck those guys, seriously. What the fuck are these countries doing about all the goddamn psychopath murderers they have as citizens? If our country is going to do something about it, we should do something that doesn't involve trying to appease monsters at the expense of our own citizens' freedoms. Like get on these guys to clean up their shithole countries to the point where foreign diplomats aren't being murdered and having their corpses dragged through the streets because of some low budget, shitty movie. Which really shouldn't be a lot to ask. Besides, if the US made pissing off crazy sand savages illegal it would seriously do nothing. Because then someone in holland or some shit would draw a cartoon that displeases these barbarians and they'd go behead some americans anyway if they could get their hands on them. Or brits, or canadians, or sweds, or whoever they can find. Because they don't fucking care. They're seriously goddamn cave men. Cave man mad. Cave man allah ackbar people. That's what they do. It doesn't matter who does it, probably wouldn't matter if anyone even did anything. Get some chinese dude to stroll around over there all by himself and they're probably saw his head off with a jagged rock if they get the chance and say they did it because he was a filthy infidel or some shit. It doesn't matter. They're monsters.

09-14-2012, 08:00 PM	#45
Vanity Succumb Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 976 Thanks: 3,432 Thanked 5,983 Times in 2,238 Posts	Re: US Ambassador in Libya Killed Freedom of speech is a difficult beast to deal with even without this incident. As an example: There was a case of a young girl that posted a youtube video that slandered another chick, and she got suspended from her school for it. However, and attorney stepped in and said that she was using her right to free speech and the school had no right to punish her for it, and they ruled in her favour, forcing the school to reverse their suspension. It's understandable that the ruling was reversed, but some people ask "well what about the victim?" Since it was slanderous in nature, and that's not a protected speech. Freedom of speech exists to protect the people from the force of the government, but the government exists to protect it's people. So when is it time for the government to step in to protect? Where does it begin and where does it end? Any more restrictions on it would be nearly impossible to define in a clear way. Edit: oh shit. Way to type faster than me while I'm distracted. __________________ My nerves are bad to-night. Yes, bad. Stay with me. Speak to me. Why do you never speak? Speak. What are you thinking of? What thinking? What? I never know what you are thinking. Think. Last edited by Vanity; 09-14-2012 at 08:05 PM.

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