Konnaha_yellow_flash

Bloodline limits are the closest and only thing though... and even they are screwed up since a person with the RG (only uchiha/uzumaki/senju) can use any one of them even though they have none of the other bloodlines within them...

and the SG cannot copy KKGs because it is more like camera that is able to use slow motion speeds, take pics, ect ect... it cannot copy bloodline limits at the lowest level... but since the RG is the highest level of the SG and it can use any KKG, thus copy... that point is null IMO...

[/QUOTE]

I mixed up the wind thing I admit...
But friction between a fist and the air around him is a no...
And gold is plain not magnetic... only metals like nickle, iron, cobalt, ect...

So friction is not the same, magnetism... even bloodline limits are screwed up by the RG... and how did red headed, white haired people of the uzumaki and black haired and grey haired people from the senju all come from the sage's younger son only about 1000 years ago??? such things are not possible in actual genetics within about 1000 years...

So using real science in an argument when every other science of screwed up is just not a good idea when trying to argue a point about this manga, IMO...

IMO, he only think kishi almost got right that can be based on something actual is the idea of ninja abilities of clans like the senju, uzumaki and uchiha coming from the juubi... just as real ninja were supposed to be descended from tengu which is how they could perform super natural feats... That is about it... besides the SG jutsu being loosely based on shinto gods, but that us of a religion...

__________________
People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA

kael03

A couple things:
1) when did nagato or Madara show a bloodline limit such as lava, boil, or ice elements? And Madara using mokuton doesn't count since he had Hashirama DNA incorporated into his body. The rinnegan has been said to use all of the base elements, not elemental combinations.
2) Gai's punches count because the enhancements to the body created by opening the Gates falls under suspension of disbelief.
3) Gold has magnetic properties. It is a diamagnetic element. Which means that when it encounters a magnetic field, it creates a magnetic field that is opposite of the field encountered.
4) white haired Uzumaki are simply old Uzumaki. The different colors of haircut for the Senju can be attributed to different genes being activated from parents outside of the clan, or just recessive genes being paired over dominant genes.
5) your timeline is an unknown variable. We have no idea when the sage lived, only that it was far enough in the past to have him fall to legend. The emergence of 2 distinct clans from a common ancestor shows a timeline greater than just 1000 years.

stubborn_d0nkey

Naruto women dont have periods

__________________
I am THE stubborn_d0nkey, thou shalt not have other stubborn donkeys before me.

LIVE LONG AND PROSPER

Quotes for noobs (learn how to break up a quote)

Konnaha_yellow_flash

Nagato himself used a technique just like the yamanaka's KKG... and it was even stated that the RG user, the sage, could use ANY technique...



So yes, the whole KKG thing is messed up by the RG which is just the highest form of the SG which was not supposed to be able to copy Bloodline limits, KKGs...

The suspension of disbelief is the fact Gai's hands are not torn apart by the force of his punches that are fast enough to supposedly create enough friction in plain air to create fire balls...

However, it is that friction itself cannot create fire no matter how fast gai's punches are because friction itself is not creating the heat from the speed of his fist, but rather the compression of air molecules that cannot move out of the path of the punch fast enough, thus creating heat, to fire and then a fire ball when then air is compressed enough...
SO no, friction is not capable of causing Gai's fire ball's with morning peacock...

OK, but that is not the argument here... You are trying to divert the argument ... Stop that *smacks hand and points finger at you*

It's the fact that in this manga Gold is magnetic which is why the use of magnetism with the magnetic element used by Gaara's father was able to control gold dust by attracting it... thus kishi screwed up magnetism obviously...

The Uzumaki's red hair turns white when their chakra is over used too...


The akamichi's alone have had 16 generation's which is only about 600-700 years... It's just that if the descendants could change so greatly in such a short time then kishi must not be using actual genetics....

Why are we debating this??? Kishi does not use science correctly in this manga very much...

__________________
People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA

kael03

1) the rinnegan allows the user to use ONLY the base elements plus yin and Yang, according to jiraiya. Since he trained nagato he is a better source of information than Ibiki, who is running off rumors and legends. Also, you have yet to provide actual proof of Nagato or Madara using a bloodline limit beyond Madara's use of mokuton, since that was granted by his incorporating Hashirama's DNA into his body.

2) you forget that one of the gates heals damage to the body. So, again, Gai using Morning Peacock is within the realm of suspension of disbelief.

3) that is the argument. You claimed that gold doesn't have magnetic properties when it does, just not the properties Kishi was showing. Also, what you said about the "manga explaining how the magnet element works on gold dust" was never said. You pulled that out of your ass. Though it could be argued that Gaara's dad was surrounding the gold from all directions but the one he was trying to move it in, thus negating the opposite field's impact on the dust movement.

4) show another Uzumaki whose hair turned white from overusing chakra. Note that the elder and elderly Mito do not count as they were of an old age. Until then, Nagato's hair turning white was a unique occurrence and does not help your case.

5) when was it ever stated that the Akamichi descended from the Sage? The only known clans descending from the sage are the Uchiha, Senju, and Uzumaki. And for the last fucking time, their body expansion techniques are NOT a bloodline limit, they are hidden techniques taught solely inside the clan.

The only part of your post I can agree with is Kishi not using science properly for certain aspects of the manga.

Gamabunta

Puny attempt to ridicule instead of a counter argument will soon come...

Konnaha_yellow_flash

Everyone has basic info on the sage of sx paths... Jman has his own and Ibiki has his own... exactly how is jman's info more credible then ibiki's considering both get their info from legend, not he uchiha tablet...

and I already showed you that nagato used a technique just like the yamanaka's mind transfer that allows them to control someone else by projecting their chakra into the enemy...
Granted the yamanaka use their technique head on while nagato uses chakra rods so he can use it from a great distance without worry about missing... it is still the same technique... which only belongs to the yamanaka's...

The 3rd gate release heals injuries made before releasing it... but in 7th gate... gai is thrusting his fists at such high speed that if it was creating fire balls from the compression of air molecules (not friction as kishi put it) then Gai's hands would be burned and torn apart from the force which the 3rd gate that has already been used cannot heal... so no realm of anything other then Kishi's improper use of science in his manga which numious is in denial about...

The explanation was that gaara's dad was using his magnetism ability to attract gold from within the ground and mix it with sand in order to create a giant wall of gold dust/sand comparable to gaara's sand tsunami...

Here gaara's dad is shown activating magnetism element to attract gold dust from within the ground then mixing within his own sand wall to strengthen it...


SO yes, gara's papa is attracting gold dust from within the ground which is impossible... Gold is not magnetic making it unable to be attracted at all...

Tobito stated himself the red hair was trademark of Uzumaki and over use of chakra made it white... Explain why any other uzumaki with red hair can not have their hair turn white from over use of chakra??? Granted Nagato was special with a rare power like mito and kushina, but it not that rare considering how many people will likely turn out to be uzumaki in origin...

What?? How is the expansion jutsu not a KKG??? It is apart of their butterfly BS fat to skinny jutsu... If expansion jutsu is not KKG then anyone can do it which is obviously not the case...

That is basically my point, but kishi seems to not be using allot of science improperly...

__________________
People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA

kael03

Ibiki is running off of pure rumor and mythos. Jiraiya trained a RINNEGAN USER. He has first hand experience with testing the "legends" of the Rinnegan from training Nagato. That is how his information is more credible than Ibiki's.

Small (read: large) difference between the Yamanaka's mind transfer technique and Nagato's chakra rods. The Yamanaka technique transfers their entire consciousness into their target to gain control of them. Their actual bodies collapse and are vulnerable to attack while they use their technique. Nagato's technique isn't transferring his entire consciousness, as he's seen on several occasions talking with Konan while the Paths were causing havoc. His technique is simply him using his own chakra plus the combined sight granted by the Rinnegan to control puppets from a vast distance.

For starters, it's the 2nd gate that heals. Secondly, we were both wrong in the gate's effects. It doesn't heal, it simply raises stamina to give a "second wind" of sorts. As for Gai's fists not being obliterated by the speed of his punches, his body's limits are increased by the gates. So, again, it falls under Suspension of Disbelief because of the Gates.

First of all, if you're going to link a gigantic image like that either put it in a spoiler tag or hyperlink it (to hyperlink, copy the URL, highlight the text your are going to link from and click on the icon that looks like a ball with a chain link at the bottom of it).

Second, read what you post. Raikage doesn't say "attract" anywhere in that image. He says "you were the shinobi who would control gold dust using the magnet element." No magnetic attraction was even hinted at by the 3rd Raikage. I've already given a, somewhat, plausible explanation that would allow magnetism to give some control over gold's diamagnetic properties: he could be surrounding the gold on all sides by a magnetic field except for the direction he wants it to go, since gold is repelled by magnetic fields instead of attracted to it.

You keep prattling on about gold not having magnetic properties, when that is false. It has magnetic properties in that it reacts to magnetism when placed in a magnetic field. However, unlike ferromagnetic materials like Iron, Nickle, Cobalt, etc., it does not create an attracting magnetic field itself. It creates a field that is opposite of the one it is exposed to, and will repel either the field or itself.

Did I ever say there wasn't or that they can't? I told you to give an example of an Uzumaki that has had their hair turn white from overuse of chakra, then cited that the Uzumaki elder and Mito were exemptions because their hair was grey from age.

I know that Kushina had the chains, but what was Mito's special ability? The ability to sense negative emotions? That was due to Kurama as shown by Naruto having the same ability when he started using Kurama's chakra.

Because the databook says it isn't, numbnuts. It is clearly listed as a "Hiden" jutsu, not a Kekkei Genkai like the Byakugan/Sharingan or Mokuton/Hyoton elements.

All that is is an aura granted by them consuming their fat cells to increase their calorie intake.

It's not the case because they never taught it outside of their clan. Hiden jutsu aren't written down for outsiders to steal/copy. They are taught orally. It is a Hiden jutsu just like the Nara's shadow binding techniques and the Yamanaka

The only thing he's completely crapped all over was thermodynamics. Genetics and physics are in the "iffy" territory due to improper explanations.

Konnaha_yellow_flash

I can see why you would think that... but remember that Jman was only around to learn that nagto could use any chakra element... nothing else... nagato did not develop his true RG abilities until after Jman was gone so he had knew nothing more then ibiki except the elements considering Jman never got to see nagato use his real RG abilities until they were used to kill him... even then he did not even see deva realms, human realms or hell reams either...
So Jman is no more credible then Ibiki...

The only difference is that nagato can split his consciousness and powers into six part unlike a standard yamanaka...(except Ino who transferred into two separate zetsu's when fighting asuma)... You never saw nagato communicate with konan when all the paths were up and running... the guy is the sage of six paths so it makes sense why he can transfer into six separate people at a time...
And nagato's chakra is how he controlled the bodies which is why they had chakra rods receiving his chakra... all the RG did was link the vision of each of them together....

You know how the mind transfer works? The user pours all their chakra into their opponent to take control of their body... thus mind... nagato does the same thing except he uses chakra rods to guide his chakra instead of relying of accuracy that could miss and leave his screwed...

except the internal muscles are torn apart and such by the amount of force they are using remember which is too extreme for their bodies... so how come the external parts of their hands are not torn apart by the super force of their punches as well???


Attracted/drawn up from within the ground which is what he is shown doing Kal!!! What is said only explains some of what is going on... the physical action of how garra's dad uses the jutsu explains everything else...

he puts his hands on the ground and uses magnetism then gold dust come UP from under ground floating in the air and is mixed into a wall of sand... and by using common sense... how could garra's dad make gold dust come up from under ground by placing his hands on the ground???

:Gaara's dad can use magnetism...

:Gaara's dad places his hands on the ground and gold dust is brought up from within the ground...

Obviously gaara's dad uses his magnetism to attract/draw the gold from under ground to the surface to mix with is sand as it is shown...

When I refer to being "magnetic" I am referring to the ability to be attracted by a magnetic field not opposed like another magnetic field... I should have clarified...

Anyways... then you are admitting gold should be repelled by basic magnetism??? Right...
Then how do you suppose gaara's dad is repelling the gold from the top of the ground to come up above??? Gaara's dad by your statement should be pushing the gold further into the ground, not drawing it up above the ground should he...
He is clearly attracting gold with his magnetism which is not right by your own statement... so why are we arguing about this???

.

But the turning white from over use of chakra seems to be a natural thing for the uzumaki if nagato could do it... You try to place nagato in some s[ecial class of Uzumaki, but he is no different then mito, kushina, karin or perhaps gaara... Except he was given madara's eye's which increased his power beyond their normal limits because the eye's themselves whether EMS's of RG eye's already have a ton of power in them...

I do not know mito's uzumaki ability... just that she could sense hostile intentions or something in RSM like naruto can...

A hidden jutsu you say... then I wonder why it uses a chakra element of Yang or Yin then as purposed by kakashi, yamato and naruto when briefly discussing the matter???
Increasing one's size and shape is not just something anyone can do I wouldn't think... the only other known person who can change their size and shape is Nagato with demon realm's power... and that is obviously a KKG technique...
And converting calories into chakra sounds about right, but it doesn't explain how chouji could become so damn strong going from pitiful low class chunin to almost kage level shinobi in a moment....

[/QUOTE]
IDK, allot of things have been shit on by this manga including Logical outcomes...

__________________
People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA

kael03

Wow, you're stupid. You can't see that you are wrong here and bury your head in the sand when confronted with that fact. I'm done telling you how you're wrong here. Back to ignore you go. Have fun.

Numinous

You know someone never took chemistry/physics on high school or wasn't paying any attention when they think magnetism is just ferromagnetism and when they don't know how diamagnetism works (if you want a diamagnetic substance to go in X direction, you create a magnetic field that encompasses all directions but X).

Seriously, KYF, you're scientifically illiterate. Stop talking about science when you know jack shit about it.

__________________

Konnaha_yellow_flash

Translation... "I project my ass off because I cannot counter your argument... B-O-O-H-O-O!"

Confronted with facts... yea... you got me there which is why you had to resort to poisoning the well right... back to make believe land with you....

I see allot of bitching about Actual magnetism then not proof how gaara's dad was using it to get gold out of the ground... This is just like you genetics argument... it is not something you fall back on to argue about when the manga will make genetic or magnetism do w/e the author please...
WHich is why magnetism was used to pull gold out of the ground despite the obvious lack of attraction from magnetism for gold, just repelling...

what I find funny is that you and Kal complained about the chapter when it came out because obviously you did not believe magnetism was being used properly by kishi as seen here
Numious:http://www.fandom.com/forums/showpos...7&postcount=16

Kal03:http://www.fandom.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=18

Yet when I argue the same you change your position and argue that kishi's use of magnetism is not that bad... when you originally found it used inaccurately...

even here you admit kishi was portraying the gold being ATTRACTED by gaara's dad's magnetism, not repelled... which I do as well... thus his magnetism does not not act as it should...

http://www.fandom.com/forums/showpos...1&postcount=37

SO which is it???

__________________
People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA

Senkradlol

Numinous

Gee, I don't know, maybe if you didn't cherry-pick the fuck out of quotes to pretend we're somehow turning coats when it comes to Kishi's science, you'd find this post and the following one. Yes, it's kind of confusing what the fuck Kishi was doing in that chapter, but at least an alternate explanation that would keep gold's diamagnetic properties was given that week. By me.

And, if you want to read further into the thread, you'll see yourself looking like a fool trying to say gravity can't push. Funny you didn't quote that.

__________________

Konnaha_yellow_flash

"Except diamagnetic substances don't act like the exact opposite of ferromagnetic substances: the gold particles would scatter to every direction but the direction of the magnetic field (instead of the same direction like one could think), so it'd require 2 distinct magnetic fields to pull the stunt, one to push the gold towards Gaara's sand and another to prevent it from scattering. So why would use gold when ferromagnetic substances are much more abundant and would only require one magnetic field?"

Seriously... in your fist link... you explain what it would take for gaara's father to actually use magnetism to control the gold dust as he did which was obviously not what happened... he simply put his hands on the ground and attracted the dust out of the ground, mixed it with sand then counter gara's sand wall with it... So that link just proves my point further...

Also, the only way the gold dust could have been compacted into a wave with sand is by attracting all the sand together... not with a simple magnetic field which would have repelled all the dust everything... not into a wave together...

and the last link also hurts you argument...
"Of course it isn't impossible, I never said it was, it's just unnecessarily complicated to the point of being ridiculous and it isn't hinted the correct method is being applied, but rather the incorrect one."

You admit what I have been saying and what you already claimed yourself... Kishi used magnetism incorrectly...

ANd WTF about gravity...

quit trying to change the subject because you choose to flip flop your opinion once I am involved...

It was also arguing about red heads being uzumaki's too which you were proven wrong about so not something you should try to use to help your argument.

__________________
People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA