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Old 09-27-2012, 08:14 PM   #1786
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

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Originally Posted by Vishnu View Post
Ok so here it's something strange about Yagura being controled with the Sharingan.

If i recall well, a jincuuriki that is synced with the biju cannot be placed under a genjutsu due to the beast disrupting the flow of chakra and thus releasing the jincuuriki. And Yagura is one of the few that managed to fully control his tailed beast. So then, how could Tobi/Obito/Madara who the fuck you want, control him with a Sharingan? The beast would have simply disrupted the flow of chakra and the genjutsu would have vanished. I hate to say this, i really hate to say this, and if you don't belive me i will say it again: i fucking hate to say this...but the only jutsu that could be able to control Yagura ( from what we know so far) is the Kotoamatsukami. What do you think?
I would think you would need to be able to control both of them for it to work. Tobi has shown he is able to control a tailed beast so it doesnt seem to much of a stretch to me that he can control Yagura
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:56 AM   #1787
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

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I would think you would need to be able to control both of them for it to work. Tobi has shown he is able to control a tailed beast so it doesnt seem to much of a stretch to me that he can control Yagura
Maybe Sasuke's lack of experience didn't allowed him to place KB under a genjutsu. Nevertheless, Kishi is fucking stupid.
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:54 AM   #1788
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

It could be that Yagura had control over his tailed beast without befriending him when he got taken over with the Genjutsu. His beast let him be controlled. Otherwise, it could have prevented it by adding his own chakra.

Just a hypothesis though...
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:14 AM   #1789
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Well the considering all we know about Yagura's control of the three tails is from 1 panel saying he was one of the four I believe capable of controlling a tailed beast. I was under the assumption for a Jinchuuriki to have complete control over the beast they had to be friendly to prevent the chakra trade crap. The real problem is we don't know for sure what they consider in control. If control would be Naruto's chakra mode first seen then it's not hard to believe that he could be controlled with any genjutsu especially if the three tails thought he was a huge faggot or whatever.

Now if they meant control as in Bee's control of the 8 tails then Yagura would need to have a similar relationship with the 3 tails. Which brings us back to whether kotoamatsumaki or Tobi's ability to control a tailed beast is what let Yagura be controlled.

But we honestly won't know unless Kishi decides to explain that. Which I would think with the flashback we would see more about Obitos journey to this point other than OMG KAKASHI NO SAVE RIN

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Old 09-28-2012, 04:01 PM   #1790
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Seriously guys... come on...!

How is it that a jink with full control can be put under a genjutsu when it is not supposed to be possible due to the bijuu snapping the host out of the genjutsu?

Easy, the bijuu had no idea yagura was put under a genjutsu because that is the trademark of Kotoamatsumaki of shisui's... it can control a person without them or anyone else knowing... If the bijuu saw no reason to believe yagura was in an illusion then why try to break him free of one...

Kotoamatsukami is on a whole other level from any other genjutsu out there... it cannot be detected by the enemy... completely unable tofigure out they are being controlled by a genjutsu... cannot detected by anyone by reading the chakra flow of people under it's control... only by reading the user's chakra flow and use of his MS eye's can the use of Koto be detected by anyone which is why AO figured out danzou was using kotoamatsukami on mifune...

With hashirama's chakra and the use of two koto eyes... Shisui could plausibly control anyone, even a large group of people for as long as he saw fit... Simply implanting thoughts, ideas, ect, interpreted as their own... Shisui could make anyone believe anything...

Hypothetical scenario:

Danzou rescues the only other survivor of Oro's experiment where he injected DNA in children of konaha to see who would make it their own.. Yamato survived and gained hashirama's power.... but there was another survivor... Shisui... Danzou takes shisui on as his personal student, implnats SG's in his eyes and With hashirama's power, shisui develops Kotoamatsukami at a young age... Danzou then has shisui use his mind control powers to convince the uchiha he is one of them and trust worthy...

This way danzou can infiltrate and then control the uchiha through shisui... if danzou wants the uchiha to do something... He instructs shisui to make them and he does... So for years the uchiha and everything they have been doing (including the ninetails attack cooperation with madara or whoever and the coup deata) was danzou's doing using shisui...

And because of the power of Kotoamatsukami's mind control abilities... this could actually happen if shisui wanted to control the uchiha with danzou as his sensei giving orders...
And what is worse... is that Kamui has three different variations that are more like three separate techniques...

1). Physical shifting of body, parts or other's and objects into the other dimension when someone makes contact with that part of the body... or object...
2). Transferring anyone or anything completely into the other dimension by creating a wormhole to pull them in then push them back out...
3). A time space barrier created on any target the user focuses on... then the user can collapse space itself within that barrier crushing and severing anything...

SO if kamui, a technique which is the ninjutsu version of Kotoamatsukami, has three different abilities... not including the technique created from using both eye's at once (the sasanoo version of those MS eyes)...
Then Kotoamatsukami should have more abilities too, IMO...

Possible abilities... if Koto can implant thoughts then...

: the implantation of memories...

: reading of the mind (accessing memories, current thoughts, fear, phobias, ect)

: erasing the mind... Possibly Turing the enemy into a vegetable...

Just a thought...
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:13 PM   #1791
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Seriously guys... come on...!
Ok Darth KYF, in this particular case, would you rather that you be correct, and this manga take an even shittier turn... or be wrong, and pray that the manga doesn't take a shittier turn.

Because I will admit, your theory about Yagura and Kotoamatsukami fits. It really doesn't have any loose strings.

But Kishi isn't using logic parse, even logic that fits within the parameters that he has set up himself.
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:06 PM   #1792
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

I have a theory.

What we know:
1. The 3 tails had no host when they captured it.
2. Yagura was the previous host.
3. When u are in sync with your tailed beast genjutsu DOESNT work on you.
4. Yagura didnt mention being controlled while speaking with Naruto. You think being controlled a second time would piss him off enough to mention the first time that he was.


Theory:

It was actually a Zetsu that had very little self awareness.
Tobito could have just been giving it orders from behind the scenes. Like a true puppeteer.
Yagura was dead at some point THAT isn't specified in the manga.
I think Madara possibly killed Yagura, which releases the beast to appear at a different time and location.

Meaning Tobito controlled the Mist which create Kisame, a valued asset. Capturing the beast when not inside a host is much easier. So i am saying they killed Yagura and replaced him with a Zetsu and left Obito to "control" the Mizu(zetsu)kage.


What do u think?

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Old 09-28-2012, 08:16 PM   #1793
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Had another thought.

If it is possible to "wear" a Zetsu is it possibke to wear a "Copied"

Example: Zetsu copies Madara and Obito "wears" it to appear as him. Which inturn would disguise his own chakra while appearing to be Madara.
Such as when he spoke with Itachi and Kisame.

If this is the case i think once Kabuto showed him the casket he gave up looking like Madara.

Also when Orochimaru was in Akataski is when Kabuto met Obito. Ember he said, " your calling yourself Madara these days."
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:19 PM   #1794
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

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Originally Posted by jericho Uzimaki View Post
Had another thought.

If it is possible to "wear" a Zetsu is it possibke to wear a "Copied"

Example: Zetsu copies Madara and Obito "wears" it to appear as him. Which inturn would disguise his own chakra while appearing to be Madara.
Such as when he spoke with Itachi and Kisame.

If this is the case i think once Kabuto showed him the casket he gave up looking like Madara.

Also when Orochimaru was in Akataski is when Kabuto met Obito. Ember he said, " your calling yourself Madara these days."
Well IMO if Zetsu did copy Madara it would be the old Madara. The one we saw seemed more youthful. Though still could be, I believe Zetsu would copy the body as is. Though being the second time with Kisame, I am starting to believe he didnt trick or fool. Simply Kisame always recognized Obito as Madara.

It wasn't that he gave up being Madara because of that. He stopped pretending because of the information Orochimaru had gathered. Also when Kabuto revealed his ace being the actual dead Madara. Tobi couldn't even continue his farse. Not only that now we know what he meant. "Fighting you would only be weakening my own goals" Which in turn means they are both trying to enact the Moons Eye Plan. Also Madara would trump Obito in a fight.
Kabuto knew who he was and also revived the biggest bad ass Uchiha but also his mentor and "Master". Tobi had no choice but to comply.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:14 AM   #1795
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

If Yagura was supposed to be in full control of the 3 tails and under kotoamatsukami the minute Tobito revealed to Kisame that he was controlling Yagura shouldn't the three tails been like wait wtf you're being controlled?
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:40 AM   #1796
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

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If Yagura was supposed to be in full control of the 3 tails and under kotoamatsukami the minute Tobito revealed to Kisame that he was controlling Yagura shouldn't the three tails been like wait wtf you're being controlled?
Or, if it's a simmilar Sharingan power with Kotoamatsukami or is indeed the Kotoamatsukami that was used on Yagura, maybe the control is a subtle one and the beast cannot break it. This would be the only reasonable explanation.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:59 AM   #1797
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

If it is koto my bets on that it's not easy to break. Otherwise why wouldn't Kabuto just be like Hey Itachi and release the genjutsu since he knew what it was. It also adds to the three tails running around free. They couldn't break the genjutsu and they were forced to kill him
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Old 09-29-2012, 11:44 AM   #1798
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

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If it is koto my bets on that it's not easy to break. Otherwise why wouldn't Kabuto just be like Hey Itachi and release the genjutsu since he knew what it was. It also adds to the three tails running around free. They couldn't break the genjutsu and they were forced to kill him
I think that we just nailed Kishi's upcoming explanation.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:55 PM   #1799
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Yea I like jerichos clone theory too so hopefully we see something soon on this
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:52 AM   #1800
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Re: Just a Thought THREAD

Probably they did an Inception on Yagura.
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