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Old 10-04-2012, 10:13 AM   #76
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Re: /Naruto 604\

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emissary of Justice View Post
You're thinking small, simply looking at the motivation for being bad instead of the the actual end game.

Pain's plan: Drop Juubi-level Tailed Beast Bombs on any country that steps out of line.
Sasuke's plan: Wipe out all of Konoha.
Obito: Force the universe into peace through genjutsu.

With what Obito wants, he's hardly an emotional sap. Did Rin dying drive him back to Madara? Yes, because like Nagato, it made him realize his idealistic view doesn't work in this world. Outside of his bitch fit the day Naruto was born, he only employed methods that harmed non-Jinks when the Kages wouldn't peacefully accept his proposal. That's hardly the "everyone needs to suffer because I'm unhappy" approach from the other two.
The confusing part of this is he obviously is. You pose an Obito in a story like this. After Madara helped Obito's crushed body into his cave, hooked him up with life, Harashirma DNA, Zetsu suits, he would simply sleep, Madara. During that time Obito was growing up on his own like he was in college, and from time to time he'd go to places like the Uchihia hideouts, and then he discovered ON HIS OWN this great plan for Tsukiyomi and either Madara's cool with it, or its his own secret plan that Madara dosen't know. Either that or PRIOR to getting crushed, JUST after awakinging ONE Tomoe (not even up to the full 3), he had such knowledge back then during his academy days.

Tsukyomi for the world is Madara's plan, he wants zero opposition, and is an emotional mess because his arch enemy Harashirma's gone and he has no more goals. Anything else drawn from they're 'relationship', or Obito's wants, is a reach, a stretch, a hope, a dream, fanfiction. Thinkit, BOTH Madara, and Obito from Harashirma's DNA, don't eat, don't drink, don't need sex, to shit, piss, or take a shower, no wonder Madara's bored. Obito simply seems like when he's in his own character that he never grew up, like I stated a hybrid Naruto/Sasuke when they were much, much, younger, before Shippuuden.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:01 AM   #77
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Re: /Naruto 604\

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emissary of Justice View Post
Pain's plan: Drop Juubi-level Tailed Beast Bombs on any country that steps out of line.
Sasuke's plan: Wipe out all of Konoha.
Obito: Force the universe into peace through genjutsu.
Nagato actually has a reasoning behind his persona. Nagato was an Orphan who grew up alone. Nagato witnessed his partents death; had a dog as his companion & it died; Gained a father figure(Jiraiya) which eventually abandoned him; Made two friends one of which he indirectly killed. Nagato's life is full of Pain which plays into his personality.

Sasuke also has valid reasoning behind his persona. At an age younger than Obito he witnessed his brother who was his idol kill his parents. Throughout the years to come Itachi would continuously mind fuck him pushing Sasuke to the edge. Sasuke then kills his brother only to find out that Itachi's simply a pawn within a much larger conspiracy. Sasuke to this day is still seeking answers so he can decide for himself what he wants to do.

Now let's look at Obito. Obito grew up within a privileged family surrounded by lots of friends & family. Obito was an arrogant child who would crumble under pressure the majority of the time he's faced with a problem. This holds true not only during his privileged childhood but should also hold true with his physiological brake down that's about to take place.

Now let's look at Kakashi who by comparison has had a much harder time when compared to Obito. Kakashi basically became an orphan after his father committed suicide. Instead of crumbling under pressure he persevered. Kakashi has to live with the guilt of Obito dieing in his place & killing Rin. Yet Kakashi was able to persevere & live on.

Obito's breakdown boils down to being unable to coop with reality. Instead of focusing on the person directly involved in Rins death what does Obito do? Obito kills his mentor because he apparently can't be everywhere at once & kills his entire family for no logical reason what so ever. Obito's so called justification for his actions is that he'll just hit the reset button so none of his actions matter. It's fucking retarded.

Really now how can you honestly sit here & defend this bullshit? Fucking apologist.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:56 AM   #78
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Re: /Naruto 604\

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
Nagato actually has a reasoning behind his persona. Nagato was an Orphan who grew up alone. Nagato witnessed his partents death; had a dog as his companion & it died; Gained a father figure(Jiraiya) which eventually abandoned him; Made two friends one of which he indirectly killed. Nagato's life is full of Pain which plays into his personality.

Sasuke also has valid reasoning behind his persona. At an age younger than Obito he witnessed his brother who was his idol kill his parents. Throughout the years to come Itachi would continuously mind fuck him pushing Sasuke to the edge. Sasuke then kills his brother only to find out that Itachi's simply a pawn within a much larger conspiracy. Sasuke to this day is still seeking answers so he can decide for himself what he wants to do.

Now let's look at Obito. Obito grew up within a privileged family surrounded by lots of friends & family. Obito was an arrogant child who would crumble under pressure the majority of the time he's faced with a problem. This holds true not only during his privileged childhood but should also hold true with his physiological brake down that's about to take place.

Now let's look at Kakashi who by comparison has had a much harder time when compared to Obito. Kakashi basically became an orphan after his father committed suicide. Instead of crumbling under pressure he persevered. Kakashi has to live with the guilt of Obito dieing in his place & killing Rin. Yet Kakashi was able to persevere & live on.

Obito's breakdown boils down to being unable to coop with reality. Instead of focusing on the person directly involved in Rins death what does Obito do? Obito kills his mentor because he apparently can't be everywhere at once & kills his entire family for no logical reason what so ever. Obito's so called justification for his actions is that he'll just hit the reset button so none of his actions matter. It's fucking retarded.

Really now how can you honestly sit here & defend this bullshit? Fucking apologist.
Obito's character has a half a hearbeat more depth than Kimmimaro (Kimmi's generally known but not the specifics, and not one person from his clan/family did he ever interact with, the closest thing to a 'Comrade' was Juugo whoms DNA was keeping him alive basically), who got 7% of the screen time. That should tell you something.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:49 PM   #79
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Re: /Naruto 604\

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
Nagato actually has a reasoning behind his persona. Nagato was an Orphan who grew up alone. Nagato witnessed his partents death; had a dog as his companion & it died; Gained a father figure(Jiraiya) which eventually abandoned him; Made two friends one of which he indirectly killed. Nagato's life is full of Pain which plays into his personality.

Sasuke also has valid reasoning behind his persona. At an age younger than Obito he witnessed his brother who was his idol kill his parents. Throughout the years to come Itachi would continuously mind fuck him pushing Sasuke to the edge. Sasuke then kills his brother only to find out that Itachi's simply a pawn within a much larger conspiracy. Sasuke to this day is still seeking answers so he can decide for himself what he wants to do.

Now let's look at Obito. Obito grew up within a privileged family surrounded by lots of friends & family. Obito was an arrogant child who would crumble under pressure the majority of the time he's faced with a problem. This holds true not only during his privileged childhood but should also hold true with his physiological brake down that's about to take place.

Now let's look at Kakashi who by comparison has had a much harder time when compared to Obito. Kakashi basically became an orphan after his father committed suicide. Instead of crumbling under pressure he persevered. Kakashi has to live with the guilt of Obito dieing in his place & killing Rin. Yet Kakashi was able to persevere & live on.

Obito's breakdown boils down to being unable to coop with reality. Instead of focusing on the person directly involved in Rins death what does Obito do? Obito kills his mentor because he apparently can't be everywhere at once & kills his entire family for no logical reason what so ever. Obito's so called justification for his actions is that he'll just hit the reset button so none of his actions matter. It's fucking retarded.

Really now how can you honestly sit here & defend this bullshit? Fucking apologist.
I agree with you on Nagato, Sasuke and Kakashi. But we still dont know if obito went to konoha to kill minato. For now it is stated that he went there with the express purpose of unleashing the kyuubi on konoha and to start a war for peace. He left, the minute kyuubi's genjutsu was released. All tobi did in konoha was to get kyuubi to attack the village. Minato's death was caused by (mostly minato's poor choice in the circumstances while) trying to control the kyuubi.

That being said from whatever has been shown so far, I see no reason for tobi to do whatever he did on that day. Why destroy konoha? How would destroying konoha start a war? And how would his moon's eye plan be achieved with a war?

i'll wait on judging obito till his story has unfolded completely. Its sure to be dumb though..
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:58 PM   #80
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Re: /Naruto 604\

You'd think that a culture that trains covert operatives from a young age would prep them mentally for the type of shit they might run into in the world.

Obito is a weak little bitch.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:25 PM   #81
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Re: /Naruto 604\

Obito's SG is acting like the RG with the eye sight sharing... It must be an ability of the younger son of the sage with a doujutsu which is why nagato could share vision and now obito can too...

Hashirama's chakra/power of the younger son of the sage is offering obito a MS without side effects/blindness... telepathic link... and control of time and space as opposed to life and death...

This explains how obito knew about kakashi making his excuse at Rin's grave because he saw it through kakashi's SG, his eye... But how kakashi got kamui is still unknown because obito has no way to telepathically send kakashi his hashirama chakra to awaken kamui in his other eye...

Kakashi will have to have senju chakra in order to use kamui if it truly is a senju/uchiha doujutsu... which IMO could only come from...

:Being descended from the younger son as a brother clan to the senju just as the uzumaki are too... The hatake having powerful chakra, but low stamina...

:Being a guinea pig like yamato... having hashirama's DNA implanted to give him use of some of hashirama's power...




EDIT:
IMO, madara could have taken obito, saving him because of what he learned about the SG when hashirama's power is used with it due to danzou and Oro's creation of shisui with it...
SHisui being a guinea pig, gaining hashirama's power which awakened kotoamatsukami... a power beyond the standard MS... likely without side effects, telepathic links, ect...
Since Oro/danzou and madara/akatsuki have been competing with each other for so long over the use of hashirama's DNA/cells and power... I think obito's gaining of kamui is completely set up...
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:27 PM   #82
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Re: /Naruto 604\

Sighs, so that's how Rin died? By Kakashi.....I feel like I just watched a soap opera in a mini series of flashbacks. Oh well, shit happens.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:53 PM   #83
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Re: /Naruto 604\

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
Obito's breakdown boils down to being unable to coop with reality. Instead of focusing on the person directly involved in Rins death what does Obito do? Obito kills his mentor because he apparently can't be everywhere at once & kills his entire family for no logical reason what so ever. Obito's so called justification for his actions is that he'll just hit the reset button so none of his actions matter. It's fucking retarded.
I don't think Obito's motivation is that bad. He sacrificed himself for the girl he loved, was left with half a body, helpless and trapped by Madara, only to witness Rin killed by his best friend. All it takes is one thing to make someone snap.

And the flashback isn't over, the reason Kakashi had to kill Rin may be big enough to turn Obito against Konoha and the ninja world as a whole.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:06 PM   #84
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Re: /Naruto 604\

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I don't think Obito's motivation is that bad. He sacrificed himself for the girl he loved, was left with half a body, helpless and trapped by Madara, only to witness Rin killed by his best friend. All it takes is one thing to make someone snap.

And the flashback isn't over, the reason Kakashi had to kill Rin may be big enough to turn Obito against Konoha and the ninja world as a whole.
Still stupid, they're 'love story' is far less than Hinata who's actually proclaimed her love, AND everybody knew for a while since they were younglings. His secret obsession with Rin is actually weird and tragic. The kind of guy that goes postal in the High School Cafeteria with a 50 Cal., and the Broad just thought they were friends till this day.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:28 PM   #85
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Re: /Naruto 604\

^This. Rin only thought of him as a friend. Obito stayed in the friend zone and was getting nowhere so he just told himself that that was the love of his life over and over until he got obsessed to the point of snapping even though he is a ninja. Rin would be Sasuke and Obito will be Naruto in this situation is what I'm getting at.
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Old 10-07-2012, 02:11 AM   #86
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Re: /Naruto 604\

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^This. Rin only thought of him as a friend. Obito stayed in the friend zone and was getting nowhere so he just told himself that that was the love of his life over and over until he got obsessed to the point of snapping even though he is a ninja. Rin would be Sasuke and Obito will be Naruto in this situation is what I'm getting at.
I think Rin is happy deep down... When all seemed lost, her dream of being penetrated by Kakashi has come true... I bet she just deludes herself about what is really going on like an average teen in love...

(:Naruto 605 "I knew you loved me kakashi...)

RIN: "Oh kakashi... I knew you loved me... You just missed my love socket by feet, hehe... and with a chidori hand because you were trying to jump start your kakashi mokuton for me... You weren't trying to kill me... I know it..."

Kakashi: "The chidori hit it's mark, die bitch..."

RIN: "Oh kakashi, hehe... Your Love-ori hit it's mark... right in my heart where my love lives for you... I will die... Die right in your arms from a love-ori..."

Kakashi: "Do what... I pierced your heart to kill y..."

RIN: "Oh kakashi.... You pierced my heart to feel my love... you would never hurt me, your love..."

Kakashi: "You are missing my point... Probably because my point litterly went through your heart... You should still realize I..."

*RIN Dies*

RIN: "Gurlllglspaaaahffffuuuffffuuuftitties.. ."

Kakashi: "Do.. what.... titties.......?? Oh well, you finally died, back to the mist controlled by the leaf"..

*obito hiding, having listened to RIN from the bushes, he is reacting to her last words and death*

Obito: "Rin!!! No...... how can I possibly cope with this trivial event so that I do not end up doing something foolish... Oh, I understand...
You believed in an irrational reality where death strikes are taken as failed sexual advances... where reason is more unwelcome then a KKK member at a black panthers rally...I understand... with the power of the uchiha and hashirama... it's ultimate power... I will recreate your reality you lived in to the deluded end... it will be my ultimate goal...
Even if I have to kill my sensei himself... or have to mind control an emo kid with powerful eyes into being the leader of a gang of ruffians to do my bidding... even if I have to destroy my own village in the process and bring war to this entire world that leaves endless dead and sad...
It will be OK because it never happened because in a RIN reality, no one has to take responsibility for their actions and only the most illogical things make sense..."

*obito runs back to the hideout to talk to madara*

Obito: "Thank you madara!!! You were right... darkness, pain, something about not being able to poop... I get it now..."

Madara: "Not being able to who... I do not think I said th..."

Obito: "Yea yea, pattato, not able to poopto... it's all the same... I will create a RIN reality so everyone can be at peace where there is no logic, reason and pooping... this will be a RIN world... but I need the power to do so..."

Madara: "Well... close enough... I will explain everything I have prepared for all these years... and in the end... You will use the juubi's power to create a new world... and control it with you imagination itself..."

END:
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:15 AM   #87
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Re: /Naruto 604\

Interesting so now we know how Kakashi got his Mangekyo but I think I have a picture of the whole thing behind. Madara who by that time (through Zetsu) already controlled the 4th Mizukage it was I believe used this mist experimental body thing with Zetsu's ability to become an exact clone of anyone to set up something, this includes Obito. After, he turned against against the world, especially Konoha. In some of the following Chapters I think will Obito learn the true story and somehow believes it and that will be when Madara is stopped.
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As I wander in the Darkness, I fuse with it
As I wandered in the Darkness, I became it
And all what is left is only deeper Darkness.


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Old 10-07-2012, 04:56 PM   #88
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Re: /Naruto 604\

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Actually, Madara said Obito just appeared on his lair and said nothing about the Zetsu getting Obito. Reread the first chapter of the flashback.


Madaras hideout is not where Obito got crushed by rocks. As shown here, Zetsu said " After ordering us to bring you here,he closed the passage with a huge rock".

But Madara also said" idk how you werent crushed by the rocks,you slip thru somehow"

So i think that Obito escaped death by the tons of boulders falling on him by activating Kamui, Zetsu which is always in the earth found Obito, told Madara it was an Uchiha and Madara told Zetsu to bring him there.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:25 AM   #89
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Re: /Naruto 604\

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encon Uchiha View Post


Madaras hideout is not where Obito got crushed by rocks. As shown here, Zetsu said " After ordering us to bring you here,he closed the passage with a huge rock".

But Madara also said" idk how you werent crushed by the rocks,you slip thru somehow"

So i think that Obito escaped death by the tons of boulders falling on him by activating Kamui, Zetsu which is always in the earth found Obito, told Madara it was an Uchiha and Madara told Zetsu to bring him there.
Then we're in a pickle, aren't we? Because 602 contradicts that:



So we have 4 possibilities here:
  • Madara's hideout has a passageway that goes out for miles
  • Madara is lying for no good reason, since the information isn't pertinent at all
  • Bad translation on one of the/both instances (I'll check it later)*
  • Kishimoto opened a plot hole within a plot hole

Take your pick!

*Edit: The translations are accurate, so there's still the other 3 possibilities.
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Last edited by Numinous; 10-08-2012 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:00 AM   #90
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Re: /Naruto 604\

Madara keeping a tunnel network for his HQ isn't actually terribly stupid. If that's the case, it just should have been mentioned.
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