Numinous

And? How's that of any relevance to what's being discussed? Kamui=/=MS.

You retard, the manga dedicated 3 whole arcs (Sasuke's Rescue, Penis Arc, Hunt for Itachi Arc) hammering the FACT MS is awakened due to emotional distress and you didn't figure out that Obito and Kakashi awakened their MS at the same time because that emotional distress was common to both MS? By Cthulhu, this is not a case of you being a dumbass, it's a case of you not reading 3 arcs screaming MS every other page.

Since Zetsu only telepathically communicate with each other, this whole crap of a quote is wrong.

Except you don't know. So this:

Is just butthurt.

It's called asking for a second opinion. I know it's a new concept for you, since your ego normally blocks every other second opinion because you're right all the time!




Are you high? Did you actually read the chapter? Obito simply snapped, he isn't thinking logically anymore. When people are emotionally overdriven, they'll target the cause of said state, it's a primordial method of coping with reality. Like Vengeance said previously, fucking apologists...

Still doesn't excuse the fact Obito had an antagonistic behavior towards Kakashi only in this fight. Remember, we're talking about an emotionally-driven character, how the hell didn't he interact with Kakashi before?

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Vengeance

It's funny how people are complaining about Kakashi not using MS in part 1 when he really only had one fight in part 1. MS wasn't even a concept in the manga when Kakashi had his one & only fight which was in the first arc of the manga. Like damn you kishi for not having the foresight when first creating the manga that you'd ultimitely butcher the series by introducing ritualistic powerups for the Uchiha. A ton of shit was retconed since the Naruto Bridge arc yet you want to complain about that?

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Numinous

Since Kakashi not using MS can be brushed off as him not knowing he had it or how to use it properly, I don't even bother with that retcon. The only thing bothering me is when exactly Kishi did write down this flashback. I thought he'd have the idea when he made Kakashi Gaiden, but the atrocious writing is of late Part II. I have the feeling this flashback wasn't his original idea and got scrapped as of late and got replaced by this debacle.

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Vengeance

Yeah like I said before I doubt Kishi originally planned to have Obito as the front man for so long. I suspect the whole 2-3 year delay on Kakashi's big year thing has something to do with what's going on now. A lack of foreshadowing is what is making this whole situation retarded at this point. Hell even Rin's status in the manga could have been foreshadowed through Kisame if Kishi originally intended for her to have any importance besides being a catalyst for Kakashi/Obito's MS. I mean it was pretty obvious that Kakashi's MS had something to do with Obito & Rins death. I'm not sure why so many are surprised.

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NeoKakarott023

To Narutards, I apologize, Obito isn't lik Sasuke/Naruto Pre Ship.... its Sasuke/Chouji, he cries too much over pussy that never cared for him, or he never got. The Half A Fuck is still a virgin now, wonder if Kishi will spend anytime talking about what percentage of his penis was lost in the rock slide, and how much is Harashirmas Wood.

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Hit me tha right way, I gots no problem reppin' ya, and look for nothing in return. Just letting Ya know

You have dishonored my Family, and a Shaolin Temple...

許 Yurusenai 許
Unforgivable

Vengeance

When did Sasuke or Chouji cry over pussy they never got? If anything Obito is like Sakura after finding out that Ino is having Sasuke's baby after Ino killed Sasuke in front of her.

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NeoKakarott023

His demeanor mentality are a combination of Sasuke Pre Ship, and Chouji. You know, fuck the world, I'm gonna have a hard on for 'My Thing'. For Obito it was Rin, for Sasuke it was the night of the uchihia massacre, both characters followed a path after that 'Thing' and still basically are on the same shit today. Sasuke 'The Uchiha's Blah Blah', and Obito, just plain old 'Rin, she touched me'. The crying shit, he's basically been a whiner over what he couldn't do or achieve, just like Chouji until this War, and the Sasuke Retrevial Arc is the only time his set show'd.

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Hit me tha right way, I gots no problem reppin' ya, and look for nothing in return. Just letting Ya know

You have dishonored my Family, and a Shaolin Temple...

許 Yurusenai 許
Unforgivable

The Special One

I'm not surprised how Kakashi got his Mangekyou, though it would have felt better if Rin had died between the end of Part One and the beginning of Part Two. Therefore, Kakashi's conversation about developing a new power over the timeskip would have flowed. Like we didn't have to know right away, only that it was shown sometime during the story. Though, I suppose since Kishi had to draw Obito into all of this, connecting Obito's Mangekyou awakening with Kakashi's, this abdominal flashback had to be crafted. There's like no upside to Obito's story. The more stuff Kishi pumps into Obito's background the more questions marks that appear, everything about Obito becoming who he is now goes against the grain of the manga. Obito just needs to be finished...

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The Specialist, forever



^My first thread.lol

Vengeance

MS & Kamui are not the same thing. MS itself is the evolved eye while Kamui is a technique that is preformed using MS. We already had a good idea that Rin died a long time ago based on Kakashi's conversations with Sasuke & his origan's in Kakashi Gaiden. Also the only person Kakashi really fought in part 1 was Zabuza who from what we saw Kakashi didn't need MS to defeat.

I don't see Tobi being Obito as the problem. The main problem to me was prolonging the reveal while advertising Tobi as the front man of Akatsuki. Personally speaking if it were up to me I would have shown more direct interaction between Tobi & Kakashi while showing that Tobi had a clear disgust for Kakashi. Like have him become angry whenever they're in the same room or whenever Kakashi's name is mentioned. Like say during an Akatsuki meeting where Kisame & Itachi mention how they bumped into the copy-cat ninja. O & the mask would have been removed allot sooner while Obito wouldn't be hyping himself up as Madara. Obito also would have died before Pain but umm yeah I'm not the author so it doesn't matter.

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Konnaha_yellow_flash

Your kidding right... How is the DB's info about how kakashi attained his kamui MS jutsu not relevant... this is only because it shits on your argument... you are so predictable...

I am well aware how UCHIHA awaken the MS, but kakashi, a nonuchiha has already been stated to of invoked kamui through chakra training... You are ignoring this as if it doesn't matter....

Translation... B-O-O-H-O-O......

It's not hard even for you...

: Zetsu tells obito that zetsu have telepathic powers...

: Obito has half a zetsu body thus it's powers as well...

: Obito sees through his eye in kakashi, through the socket his eye wa sin as if it is still there...

: Then obito's SG became MS in kakashi as well even though he is not uchiha... but at the exact same time obito did as if still linked....

: Kakashi did not gain the MS kamui until 16 years later from chakra training...

It's easy... the same link that allowed obito to see through his eye in kakashi also allowed obito to awaken the MS in the eye in kakashi's as well... kakashi was able to half ass use the kamui obito already awakened by gaining enough chakra to invoke the MS after becoming powerful enough to use a technique that only an uchiha/senju can anyways...


That is horseshat!!! The guy asked for someone to support his opinion with their opinion so he could use that as the evidence he needed to draw a conclusion about the manga as opposed to reading the manga, analyzing it and coming up with his own conclusion from his analysis...

You are acting like all he did was ask for a second opinion as a means to help him decide between the two when all he did was want someone to support the conclusion he already made as if another opinion as anything other then, just another opinion...


ANYWAYS... Pretty much all I see is allot of denial... It is common knowledge that kakashi gained use of the MS/kamui over the time skip... it is cannonz!!!

The author set up how the eye kakashi has awakened the MS despite being a nonuchiha... through a telepathic link obito has when he is close enough to his eye...

: Zetsu said they can communicate telepathically as long as they are close enough...

: Then obito gets close enough to his eye and starts to see an image his eye sees until he gets close enough for it to become clear... as if his eye is telepathically linked still...

: Then obito's vision through his eye is shown as what was actually seen by his eye validating a telepthic link even further...

: Then obito sees RIN die and his MS as well as his MS in kakashi becomes MS at the exact same time even though kakashi was passing out at the moment... validating even further a telepthic link between him and his eye in kakashi...

: 16 years later, kakashi gains use of the MS obito awakened in his eye by gaining enough chakra to invoke the MS in the eye... but only has enough chakra to transfer anything into another dimension, but not bring it back out...

Kishi has presented kakashi's MS awakening as due to a telepathic link between obito and his eye in kakashi... ANd since obito has senju/uchiha powers... he can use his kamui as it is supposed to... meanwhile it took kakashi 16 years to gain enough chakra to invoke the MS of the eye obito already awakened in it years earlier... because he is not a senju/uchiha... but a hattake/uchiha with obito's eye...

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People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA

Vengeance

Databooks in general are no longer relevant unless a new one recently came out. So much shit has been retconed since the original databooks that most of the information is no longer viable. Try to go based souly on the manga when making your arguments please. Also Kamui is not MS it's a jutsu that can be used with MS. There is a difference.

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Konnaha_yellow_flash

how is the info about kakashi's attaining kamui of the MS not relevant???

It said he was able to gain MS in obito's eye through training his chakra till it was powerful enough to invoke the MS we saw obito already awakened 16 years earlier through a telepathic link between him and his eye in kakashi...

This was in all liklihood because kamui of obito's MS is a senju/uchiha technique... which is why obito could use the technique and kakashi could not..

Obito has half a zetsu/hashirama senju body and half an uchiha body... thus he can produce the power of YIN and YANG elements for a more powerful doujutsu... which is why obito can use two different variations with his kamui which are more like two separate jutsu though...

While kakashi... at age 30 gained enough chakra as a hattake/uchiha to invoke the MS that had already been awaken in the SG by obito... but could not muster enough chakra as a nonsenju to use kamui properly thus his half ass use of his kamui... able to transfer anything into another dimension, but incapable of bringing it back out like obito can, plus another variation/jutsu...

__________________
People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA

Vengeance

Because Kamui is not MS so it isn't relevant.

Stop. The databook does not state that Kakashi gained MS through training.

What we saw was Kakashi killing Rin. Obito gained MS by witnessing her death while Kakashi gained it by actually killing her.

That would imply that Kakashi is senju so no. Kamui is a technique used with MS & has nothing to do with Senju. It's a sharingan exclusive.

Which is meaningless.

No.

Actually they are the same jutsu as stated by Kakashi.

Actually Kakashi awakened his own by killing Rin as shown in the manga.

Overreaching much?

You need to remember that Kakashi isn't an Uchiha & thus can not fully utilize the potential of his sharingan as stated by Itachi back in part 1.

KYF you're clearly over complicating the situation here. None of what you're saying here is ever going to be addressed in the manga since it isn't important. The question is simply how did Kakashi gain MS. The answer is also simple; by killing Rin. End of discussion.

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ask me anything

No, my complaint isn't that he didn't use his MS. It's simply that he HAD it for a LONG TIME before part 1 even started but no evidence of vision loss was ever mentioned. If kakashi gained his MS about a years after kakashi Gaiden that makes him 14. When part 1 started he was 26. So in 12 years time it was either that his eyesight didn't deteriorate (when it clearly should have), he didn't noticed that his eyesight was getting worse or he did and never wondered to question why. Take your pick, but all options suck.


But MS is a fully explained concept NOW, and this flashback is happening NOW. How do you fail to understand something so simple. Kishi has long since laid down the rules about how MS works and the side effects (blindness) you get after awakening it. Is there even a single person that denies that after awakening MS blindness starts to happen. That's been 100% confirmed. Yet this chapter completely ignores it in kakashi's case. I'll tell you point blank, kakashi should have been blind before the series even started going by this chapter.

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Vengeance

The blindness of MS is caused by overuse which was clearly depicted by Sasuke. Sasuke had his MS for like a month tops before becoming legally blind. Clearly Kakashi wasn't spamming MS for 12 years so obviously he wouldn't be blind. You're complaining about nothing.

Again the manga clearly depicts the blindness happening by overuse & not by simply having the ability to use MS. It's clearly shown in the manga how the blindness effect actually works. Now if Kakashi ran around with MS active for 12 years you'd have an argument however clearly he didn't since we didn't see it once in part one.

Actually it doesn't ignore anything. If Kakashi's MS is rarely (if at all) activated then the over-straining of the eye would never happen.

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