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Old 10-11-2012, 02:34 PM   #121
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Re: Naruto_605

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Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
Because Kamui is not MS so it isn't relevant.
Kamui is the MS in that it come from the MS... when you awaken the MS, you awaken kamui as well obviously... So how is the MS and kamui two completely different things for kakashi???

Quote:
Stop. The databook does not state that Kakashi gained MS through training.
How he awakend Kamui, which can only be used by the MS, thus kakashi had to awaken the MS to use kamui... It's not hard, why try to complicate it???

Quote:
What we saw was Kakashi killing Rin. Obito gained MS by witnessing her death while Kakashi gained it by actually killing her.
Yes kakashi killed RIN, but what we saw was obito's eye's both go MS while kakashi was passing out... ANd as a nonuchiha, awakening the MS on his own is supposed to be impossible which itachi even commented about...

Due to the obvious telepathic connected foreshadowed by obito seeing rin's death through his eye in kakashi once he got close enough... the same telepathic link is likely the reason his eye in kakashi became MS as well as his...
If obito has a connection that allows him to see through his eye as if it is still in his eye socket... then why can't his eye react to his emotional stress becoming MS like his other eye, as if it is still connected as well...???

Quote:
That would imply that Kakashi is senju so no. Kamui is a technique used with MS & has nothing to do with Senju. It's a sharingan exclusive.
no it wouldn't... Obito is uchiha/senju because of his zetsu/hashirama half body... while kakashi is hattake/uchiha...
Kamui can still be a senju/uchiha technique... thus obito can use kamui properly while kakashi as a hattake needed 16 years of training to gain the chakra to invoke the MS that was awakened years earlier... and use it's technique kamui, but only half assed, as a nonsenju should without the power of the senju to properly power the MS eye...

Quote:
Which is meaningless.
: Obito has half senju body and half uchiha body...

: Zetsu said that by using both powers of the senju and uchiha together... a new eye power never before seen can be awakened...

: Obito awakened an eye power never seen before or since... Kamui...

: and shisui, someone else who had use of senju and uchiha powers together also awakened an eye power never seen before or since..... Kotoamatsukami...

Yea, it's meaningless... LAMO!


Quote:
No
.

YES!!!

The power of the UCHIHA/YIN element and the SENJU/YANG element... can produce more powerful doujutsu...
It did for shisui with Kotoamatsukami...
It did for obito with Kamui...
and it did with edo madara creating the RG from the EMS...

YES!!!


Quote:
Actually they are the same jutsu as stated by Kakashi.
I just stated they are the same technique... but they are more like two separate jutsu though..
1. time space body/parts and object shifting into another dimension leaving an illusion of the body/part of object that was shifted.... seems to be instinctive... automatic almost by activating the MS when attacked...
2. Time space transfer and return which completely transfers anything into another dimension leaving nothing behind... and then bringing it back too...

and that is not including kakashi's technique which is a distance time space transfer... or what activating both eye's at once would do...

Both are so different... they are as different as shirei tensai and banshou tenin...

Quote:
Actually Kakashi awakened his own by killing Rin as shown in the manga.
No, I think obito awakened the MS in his own eye in kakashi due to the telepathic link he has with it... Kakashi is not an uchiha thus unable to awaken the MS from the SG... However, after obito already awakened the MS in the eye... kakashi gained enough chakra to invoke the MS in it to use a half assed kamui...

Quote:
Overreaching much?
No it fits perfectly...


Quote:
You need to remember that Kakashi isn't an Uchiha & thus can not fully utilize the potential of his sharingan as stated by Itachi back in part 1.
He is not uchiha, but has the power in his left eye, obito's eye... Using his chakra through the uchiha chakra that is already in the eye is the same thing obito does by using hashirama senju chakra and his uchiha though the eye at once... thus kamui is invoked...

and I know what itachi said... and what he said in part 2 implied it is impossible for kakahsi to awaken the MS from the transplanted SG because he lacks the chakra of the uchiha to push it...

Quote:
KYF you're clearly over complicating the situation here. None of what you're saying here is ever going to be addressed in the manga since it isn't important. The question is simply how did Kakashi gain MS. The answer is also simple; by killing Rin. End of discussion.
: Except not uchiha cannot awaken the MS due to their inability to use the SG's true potential... as you recognized yourself...

: Obito has a telepathic link with his eye...

: kakashi didn't invoke the MS in the eye until 16 years later... How can kakashi awaken something he did not have the power to use unlike obito who did?
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:37 PM   #122
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Re: Naruto_605

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Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
No, my complaint isn't that he didn't use his MS. It's simply that he HAD it for a LONG TIME before part 1 even started but no evidence of vision loss was ever mentioned. If kakashi gained his MS about a years after kakashi Gaiden that makes him 14. When part 1 started he was 26. So in 12 years time it was either that his eyesight didn't deteriorate (when it clearly should have), he didn't noticed that his eyesight was getting worse or he did and never wondered to question why. Take your pick, but all options suck.




But MS is a fully explained concept NOW, and this flashback is happening NOW. How do you fail to understand something so simple. Kishi has long since laid down the rules about how MS works and the side effects (blindness) you get after awakening it. Is there even a single person that denies that after awakening MS blindness starts to happen. That's been 100% confirmed. Yet this chapter completely ignores it in kakashi's case. I'll tell you point blank, kakashi should have been blind before the series even started going by this chapter.
There is confusion, these rules apply to 'regular' Uchiha, Sasuke, Itachi, Madara, and Izuna. Obito is an Uchiha combined with Harashirma DNA since he left the cave. That being the case I could understand why Obito/Tobi dosen't have the blindness issue, can change sharingans like nothing thats why he has 100+, and because the eye is from Obito, and Kakashi isn't an Uchiha, the old rules don't apply to them obviously. I don't know why, but as Mibs would say...Those Fucking Magic Eyeballs.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:56 PM   #123
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Re: Naruto_605

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Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
The blindness of MS is caused by overuse which was clearly depicted by Sasuke. Sasuke had his MS for like a month tops before becoming legally blind. Clearly Kakashi wasn't spamming MS for 12 years so obviously he wouldn't be blind. You're complaining about nothing.


Again the manga clearly depicts the blindness happening by overuse & not by simply having the ability to use MS. It's clearly shown in the manga how the blindness effect actually works. Now if Kakashi ran around with MS active for 12 years you'd have an argument however clearly he didn't since we didn't see it once in part one.


Actually it doesn't ignore anything. If Kakashi's MS is rarely (if at all) activated then the over-straining of the eye would never happen.





You were saying...

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Old 10-11-2012, 03:08 PM   #124
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Re: Naruto_605

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Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post





You were saying...

I was saying that you're a complete retard. He even states "the more you use them, the quicker the process moves". That basically validates my point dumbass.
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

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Old 10-11-2012, 03:18 PM   #125
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Re: Naruto_605

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Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
I was saying that you're a complete retard. He even states "the more you use them, the quicker the process moves". That basically validates my point dumbass.
Nobody is even arguing against that dumbass. Learn2read.

What's being argued is that even having a MS means blindness starts to occur. And kakashi has had his MS for over a decade with no hint of blindness at all being mentioned until after Part 2 even started.


It is YOU who are saying MS doesn't lead to blindness, which is why I posted that manga panel showing otherwise.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:23 PM   #126
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Re: Naruto_605

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Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
Nobody is even arguing against that dumbass. Learn2read.

What's being argued is that even having a MS means blindness starts to occur. And kakashi has had his MS for over a decade with no hint of blindness at all being mentioned until after Part 2 even started.


It is YOU who are saying MS doesn't lead to blindness, which is why I posted that manga panel showing otherwise.
MS does lead to blindness. However you actually have to use it in order for the deterioration to occur. As shown with Sasuke every time he used it his eyesight got worse. How is that hard to understood? Shits not rocket science dumbass MS leads to blindness, don't use it & you won't go blind.
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

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Last edited by Vengeance; 10-11-2012 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:35 PM   #127
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Re: Naruto_605

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Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
MS does lead to blindness. However you actually have to use it in order for the deterioration to occur. As shown with Sasuke every time he used it his eyesight got worse. How is that hard to understood? Shits not rocket science dumbass MS leads to blindness, don't use it & you won't go blind.
You have to be trolling. Did you even read what you wrote. Jesus fuck dude. Let's simplify this for you.

AWAKENING MS CAUSES THE EYE(S) TO BEGIN TO SLOWLY GO BLIND, EVEN IF YOU NEVER FUCKING USE IT!


ACTUALLY USING THE MS MAKES THE PROCESS GO FASTER!!!

YOU GO BLIND EITHER WAY.

EVEN IF KAKASHI "SLOWLY" WENT BLIND, IT WAS FOR OVER A FUCKING DECADE, SO THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SOME EFFECT BY THE BEGINNING OF PART 1.




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Old 10-11-2012, 03:43 PM   #128
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Re: Naruto_605

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Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
You have to be trolling. Did you even read what you wrote. Jesus fuck dude. Let's simplify this for you.

AWAKENING MS CAUSES THE EYE(S) TO BEGIN TO SLOWLY GO BLIND, EVEN IF YOU NEVER FUCKING USE IT!
Never states even if you never use it. You're simply assuming that someone who has the ability to use MS but never does will still go blind. Sorry but that's just illogical thinking to say the least. The actual deterioration of the eyesight is shown to be caused by actually using the MS.

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Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
ACTUALLY USING THE MS MAKES THE PROCESS GO FASTER!!!
Of course the more you use it the faster you'll go blind. Common fucking sense reject.

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Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
YOU GO BLIND EITHER WAY.
Based on what since the manga never states that. You're making an assumption & an illogical one at that. Itachi was talking in a cryptic manner to make what he's saying sound cooler. However the message was fairly obvious. Using MS causes blindless. The more you use it the faster you'll go blind.

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Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
EVEN IF KAKASHI "SLOWLY" WENT BLIND, IT WAS FOR OVER A FUCKING DECADE, SO THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SOME EFFECT BY THE BEGINNING OF PART 1.
Based on what? Also what makes you think his eyesight hasn't gotten worse over time? Have you seen a single panel showing Kakashi's eyesight through sharingan? No you haven't so simply put you don't fucking know the condition of Kakashi's eyesight to even be bitching in the first place. SO STFU already you're crying over nothing.
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

Wanna join me come and play, but I mite shoot you in your face. Bombs and bullets will do the trick. What we need here is a little bit of panic! ~ Get Jinxed

Last edited by Vengeance; 10-11-2012 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:55 PM   #129
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Re: Naruto_605

^You're a complete dumbass! Itachi wasn't being cryptic at all. He said it very clearly:

"From the day you AWAKEN it, your eyes begin a slow decent into darkness". He clearly identifies that merely awakening the MS is what starts the process of eventually going blind. You are a complete moron for arguing otherwise. Have a nice day, tool. :P
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:13 PM   #130
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Re: Naruto_605

Slow is relative. If kakashi never used it for a decade, there could be no affect. We have no data to make any comparisons. For all we know, the "slow decent into darkness" could be 30-40 years if the MS is never used. The fact is, there have been no panels of his vision to make any determinations.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:16 PM   #131
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Re: Naruto_605

this is getting ridiculous now

I have to disagree vengence

with that panel ask my anything is right

he doesnt have to use the ms to go blind

itachi states 'from the day you awaken it, the eyes begin a slow decent into darkness'

you're trying to argue that he needs to use it to start going blind but the quote states otherwise.

why are your trying to argue this quote? and saying it's 'illogical' to conclude it and that it's 'cryptic' where did you get this from? why would you think hes being cryptic, if you argue a quote in the manga like this then everyone can try to argue any fact being state by the manga and say they didn't mean it like that.

let's say there is a chance of him being cryptic, why would he do that? (btw i hate the word logical, people have used that word to the death in arguments) itachis tried to tell sasuke the truth to prepare him when he died why would he lie about that? hes doing 2 in this fight, he keeps the illusion of himself being a traitor but also hes preparing sasuke for the future, hes telling him about 'madara' and about the mangekyo, theres no reason for itachi to lie about that, hes doing it for sasukes own good, and hes trying to awaken sasukes ms why would he lie about what it entails?

Some people have said that vs deidara was the first time kakashi used ms
thats clearly not true, kakashi spoke as if he had used it before or trained with it

before that fight

kakashi asked about itachis eye sight, itachi then figures out he has ms
the fact that kakashi knows about the blindess thing suggests its happening to his eyes

but since he hasnt used it aggressively until pain arc and this war, he hasn't been going blind as fast.

but he is definitely going blind in that eye the moment he awakened it from what itachi says.


Why isn't obito using eyesight in that eye?
well we don't know that he isn't but the process of eye sight loss may have been reduced or even completely stopped due to hashiramas cells

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Old 10-11-2012, 04:39 PM   #132
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Re: Naruto_605

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Originally Posted by royalmage View Post
Slow is relative. If kakashi never used it for a decade, there could be no affect. We have no data to make any comparisons. For all we know, the "slow decent into darkness" could be 30-40 years if the MS is never used. The fact is, there have been no panels of his vision to make any determinations.
^Exactly.

The rest of you are fucking retards. I'm basing my thoughts on real time examples within the manga while you're basing yours are on a cryptic message that even Sasuke didn't quite understand right away(In that same panel; Sasuke: What's that supposed to mean?).

Smoking causes cancer. If you smoke one cigarette then don't smoke at all for 12 years does that mean you'll get cancer as a direct result of smoking that one cigerette 12 years ago? See what I did there?
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

Wanna join me come and play, but I mite shoot you in your face. Bombs and bullets will do the trick. What we need here is a little bit of panic! ~ Get Jinxed

Last edited by Vengeance; 10-11-2012 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:59 PM   #133
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Re: Naruto_605

even if once its awakened the user starts to go blind, didnt itachi have his MS for like 9 years before he went( or was going) blind and he used it more times on panel than kakashi did ( b4 he died). So even if it does cause eventual blindness, its probably so super slow if it isnt used.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:19 PM   #134
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Re: Naruto_605

Your comparison of MS to cigarettes was pretty dumb. If you would have compared using MS to smoking and not using it to the effects of 2nd hand smoke then it would have made more sense.

A better comparison would be to compare the effects of MS on the eyes to that of a poison. Higher doses causes damage faster, but even low doses still damage over time, but whatever.



Also sasuke is a moron. That should be clear by now.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:41 PM   #135
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Re: Naruto_605

^You are just plain dumb aren't you. Unlocking ms does make you blind but at a pace it is barely noticeable. Unlike Sasuke who kept spamming every MS jutsu he needed that probably fastened up the pace
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