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Old 10-11-2012, 12:55 PM   #46
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamabunta View Post
Clearly it says here that Izanagi can only be used by those who possess Uchiha and Senju.



And here it says it was derived from this but not a different version of Izanagi.


Then it shows how Danzo sucks. Not that its different version of what Tobi used. He just practically sucks at controlling Senju power.


And then the ultimate retcon which makes practically everything above being said by Tobi as a lie.


Now i have to admit that i am confused. How can the guy who tears for arguments without being mock or insulted, sit back and laugh at the piece of fact from the manga that clearly states the Izanagi can only be used by those who possess Uchiha and Senju? And the best part of it all they refused to believe kishi makes series of plotholes. LOL
What tobi spoke of is how he knows to use it... but there are two different versions the manga has shown...

First... Izanagi, the uchiha's Kinjutsu... With only the power of the uchiha's YIN element... can make reality an illusion for the brifest of moments...
However, by adding senju hashirama's power... the time that reality can be an illusion is increased.... but is not required for the use of the uchiha's Izanagi though...
The jutsu Izanami was created to punish the users of this Izanagi because allows the user to cheat death and escape the consequences of ones actions......

Second.... the sage's Izanagi... the Original Izanagi which is the practical application of something called "creation of all things"... that by using the power of the Uchiha's Yin element... create shape and form with the imagination and spiritual energy... then use the senju's YANG element to add physical and life energy to bring the form and shape of the imagination to life...

A jutsu that just like the the thing it came from, can create anything...

The power to bring Imagination to life, making it real... that is the sage's Izanagi...

The difference between the two is that the uchiha's Izanagi only requires the YIN element of the SG and turns reality into an illusion, even for just a moment...
WHile the sage's Izanagi requires Uchiha's YIN element SG and the senju's YANG element powerful body to use... It brings Imagination to life... making anything one imagines real...

Big difference between the uchiha's and the sage's Izanagi's...
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:55 PM   #47
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

1st

Danzou sucks at controlling hashi cell doesn't mean its not the same jutsu as tobi used.

2nd

No, its not Izanagi the sage used but something way better. Calling it Izanagi shows you don't get it till now cause i have seen you post spamming replies just because you don't understand what derive actually means.
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:48 PM   #48
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamabunta View Post
1.2.3

Open-minded simply to accept an opinion sucks but i do respect your opinion. And no, i suggested its probably a retcon cause i think putting everything that tobi states as a lie is being overly biased. Furthermore, we don't really know know how advance those uchiha were back then and where itachi get those info from cause if we were to trace... Most of the stuff Itachi learned or were lead to the road of discovery is from........... (why don't you answer this too)
True but what you're doing is speculating to the extreme, although I do respect your point of view.

The SO6P had the rinnegan when he performed Izanagi(according to Obito) which clearly differs from the Izanagi Danzou and Obito used. Furthermore, Itachi used Izanami so why should you question his knowledge and what he said about Izanagi?

Itachi hardly learned a thing from Tobi, we KNOW this. It was just a ploy to provoke Sasuke and make him not trust Tobi. We saw in the flashback that Shisui was much more of an influence on Itachi than Tobi ever was. All he did was meet Itachi the night before the massacre.

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Old 10-13-2012, 03:51 PM   #49
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

Oh for fucks sake, the sage didn't use izanagi. Izanagi is based on his "Creation of All Things" jutsu, banbotsu sozu. How many times does that have to be stated?
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Old 10-13-2012, 04:30 PM   #50
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

Grow up man. What we are saying is CANON unless proven otherwise. This is just like when you argued ignorantly about Tobi not being the harbinger of disaster. You were wrong then and your wrong now.
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:26 PM   #51
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

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Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Grow up man. What we are saying is CANON unless proven otherwise. This is just like when you argued ignorantly about Tobi not being the harbinger of disaster. You were wrong then and your wrong now.
What you're saying is NOT canon. Canon says that izanagi is derived from Creation of All Things, which the sage used to create the 9 bijuu.

Also, you're still wrong about the Obito thing, since the prophecy stated that the child of destiny would be the harbinger of chang. Obito being declared the harbinger of anything is Binktopia doing what they are known for, embellishing translations to side the dialogue into something more catchy. Minato never once said Obito was the harbinger of disaster, only that he was one of the catastrophes Naruto would have to overcome to make the changes he was destined for.
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:23 AM   #52
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
What you're saying is NOT canon. Canon says that izanagi is derived from Creation of All Things, which the sage used to create the 9 bijuu.

Also, you're still wrong about the Obito thing, since the prophecy stated that the child of destiny would be the harbinger of chang. Obito being declared the harbinger of anything is Binktopia doing what they are known for, embellishing translations to side the dialogue into something more catchy. Minato never once said Obito was the harbinger of disaster, only that he was one of the catastrophes Naruto would have to overcome to make the changes he was destined for.
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/544/6

Here, Naruto tells Raikage Tobi is the harbinger and I already showed you Minato saying the same thing, or have you forgotten?

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-57473-1...apter-510.html

This is Tobi saying Izanagi's original use by the Sage.

Now you see I've provided CANON proof of what I've said. Please do the same rather than your OWN opinion.
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:28 AM   #53
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

I told you once already, Binktopia translations aren't the most accurate. They embellish a lot of the dialogue to create more drama in order to get more readers. Every other translation has had Minato state that Tobi is one of the catastrophes Naruto would have to overcome.

Btw, you fail with that link with Naruto and Raikage. Not one mention of "harbinger". Naruto said that Obito would cause disaster, which is his part of the prophecy as one of the "catastrophes" Naruto would overcome.

As for your other link, num has posted the raw scans, with translations, of that same page on numerous occasions. Obito says that Izanagi is derived from the sage's ability to create things with his Creation of All Things jutsu. It is NOT what he used to create the bijuu.

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Old 10-14-2012, 04:30 AM   #54
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

Show me this 'authentic' translation that you speak of then, just like I showed you mine. The burden of proof is on you, not me. Mangastream, Mangapanda, LikeNaruto ALL say the same thing. You haven't provided nothing and you STILL wont accept what Minato and Naruto both said about Tobi.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-55672-1...apter-503.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/544/6

Lmao, why can't you just admit it?

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Old 10-14-2012, 05:53 AM   #55
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

@ MU: Oh for fuck's sake, I thought all the roundabouts about Banbutsu Souzou made it clear to everyone (but KYF, but he likes to be delusional) what it was all about. Time to unfortunately repeat myself:



Quote:
Top right panel: "... Izanagi to ha honrai o mae no iu Rikudou Sennin no "Banbutsu Souzou" o ouyou shita jutsu no koto da "

I even color-coded the parts to translate!

"... Izanagi is by nature a jutsu that is an application of the fabled Rikudou Sennin's "Banbutsu Souzou""

You can check the Japanese all you want, Banbutsu Souzou is canon and it was what created the Bijuu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Show me this 'authentic' translation that you speak of then, just like I showed you mine. The burden of proof is on you, not me. Mangastream, Mangapanda, LikeNaruto ALL say the same thing. You haven't provided nothing and you STILL wont accept what Minato and Naruto both said about Tobi.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-55672-1...apter-503.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/544/6

Lmao, why can't you just admit it?
It's a shame this page can't be found anywhere in the original Japanese to verify if it matched with chapters 503 and 544 since, you know, you kind of implied previously that they did. And, to be honest, the fuck are you trying to prove with those two pages alone when the one in chapter 376 is the pertinent one? That the two are connected? No fucking shit, Naruto is simply quoting is father, it's not a prophecy.

Well, if you get your hands on the original Japanese for chapter 376, I'd be glad if you linked.

Edit: Also, you still haven't proved Madara knew of the prophecy.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:55 AM   #56
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

[QUOTE=minato uchiha;2127208]Num, you should post this to Mangapanda, Mangastream and the like, since they ALL say what I just said. Its like in your haste to show what the Japanese version showed, you omit the fact that us readers, can only go with the material present. Yes or No?

In my post, I provided links which I obviously didn't make up(before you start accusing me again,lol) and pray tell, how does this Banzou w/e disprove what I said about Tobi being the harbinger? I assume you have the original Japanese of that chapter(s).

I can accept what the original Japanese said. I hope you can accept the reason why I made the 'error' in the first place.

Lol and 376 is not the sole reference we have here you know, unless you have deemed all other chapter references invalid because you say so.

A theory by definition is not a fact and in my THEORY, I said Madara may have had a prophecy about Nagato. Lol, so why are you demanding proof when I clearly said it was speculation?

Edit: thanks for the translation btw. However, am I right in thinking, it indirectly proves what my original argument was about? Namely, that Izanagi has different applications and that Tobi and Danzou versions were just that, a version of it?
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:01 AM   #57
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

Madara is referred as mentor by itachi in the manga

Shisui is like a brother also in the manga

Mentor teach or school you like a kid while a bro doesn't need to.

So it's not a speculation.... bro.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:06 AM   #58
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

Lool you know it is man. Itachi was lying to Sasuke about Madara. Forget what he called him. In Itachi's own memories, he MET Tobi the night before the massacre and that was it. Shisui had already given him his eye and Itachi NEVER trusted Tobi, hence why he tried to kill him and was shocked Tobi knew the truth about him.

Tobi was not Itachi's mentor, nor was he the one who trained him. I think on this one, your wrong bro
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:18 AM   #59
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

He has the means unlike shisui who don't and it matches with what Itachi said.
You have an issue with everything is a lie.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:28 AM   #60
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

Ok my point is this. BEFORE Itachi and Tobi met, Itachi had awakened his ms, was Anbu trained and was about to wipe out his clan. So what possibly mentoring or training could Tobi have given him?

Do you see my point? Itachi was already powerful before he made a DEAL with Tobi and what he said to Sasuke, was so Sasuke wouldn't trust or work for Tobi.Ok my point is this. BEFORE Itachi and Tobi met, Itachi had awakened his ms, was Anbu trained and was about to wipe out his clan. So what possibly mentoring or training could Tobi have given him?

Do you see my point? Itachi was already powerful before he made a DEAL with Tobi and what he said to Sasuke, was so Sasuke wouldn't trust or work for Tobi.
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