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Old 11-07-2012, 01:58 AM   #1
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Since nagato is...

Since nagato made the jump to senju from uzumaki does this mean the same thing for naruto. Will his familial ties to the hokage be revealed? Was tsunades picked due to some kinship with our current jinchuriki. Does the shift in Konoha history mean Naruto and Sasuke's final battle will be a literal fight between senju and uchiha and not just a battle of ideologies. After I first asked these questions I think it's time to draw a line in the sand to see if these views still seem far fetched. Granny Tsunade could be a pet name or it could hold deeper meaning. And before we get to throwing stones remember Obito fought his master nearly destroyed the village as a tween and it wouldn't be far fetched for tsunade and minato to have some familial ties or hell it could be through kushina as some practice of strengthening the senju gene pool by finding uzumaki spouses.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:24 AM   #2
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Re: Since nagato is...

no .
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:34 AM   #3
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Re: Since nagato is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
Since nagato made the jump to senju from uzumaki
How the fuck did you get that jump? Nagato was confirmed Uzumaki. Only thing that remotely tied him to the Senju was the fact that the Uzumaki and Senju share a common ancestor.

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does this mean the same thing for naruto.
Since there is no jump from Uzumaki to Senju...no.

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Will his familial ties to the hokage be revealed?
It already was revealed. His dad was the 4th Hokage. Haven't you been reading?

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Was tsunades picked due to some kinship with our current jinchuriki.
She was picked because she was the most likely candidate after Jiraiya, and she happened to be the grand daughter of the 1st Hokage. That's all.

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Does the shift in Konoha history
What shift? Nothing has been shifted in the history of Konoha. The only "shifting" is the crap that took place in the 13-ish (max) months from Obito being crushed to Naruto's birth.

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mean Naruto and Sasuke's final battle will be a literal fight between senju and uchiha and not just a battle of ideologies.
It will still be a battle of ideologies. Naruto is NOT a Senju. I don't know how many times that has been said.

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After I first asked these questions I think it's time to draw a line in the sand to see if these views still seem far fetched.
Considering these "views" have no evidence backing them up...yeah, they're still far fetched.

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Granny Tsunade could be a pet name or it could hold deeper meaning.
It's a pet name. Much like calling Lee "Fuzzy brows" and Gai "Super Eyebrows". Naruto has a very blunt personality. There's no hidden meaning to his nicknames.

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And before we get to throwing stones remember Obito fought his master nearly destroyed the village as a tween
He was a teenager. Early teens, but a teen nonetheless. He was about the same age as Kakashi, who was 14 when the attack happened. The fact that he was able to control Kurama after ~ a year of recovering and training is the biggest bullshit plothole introduced to the manga.

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and it wouldn't be far fetched for tsunade and minato to have some familial ties or hell it could be through kushina as some practice of strengthening the senju gene pool by finding uzumaki spouses.
Just stop. Tsunade is too young to be a parent to either Minato or Kushina. The only ties Naruto has to the Senju is the younger son common ancestry.

There was no practice of "strengthening the senju gene pool". The only Uzumaki to have been confirmed to marry a Senju was Mito. Trying to claim otherwise is arguing from ignorance, and pure speculation at best.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:08 AM   #4
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Re: Since nagato is...

Quote:
There was no practice of "strengthening the senju gene pool". The only Uzumaki to have been confirmed to marry a Senju was Mito. Trying to claim otherwise is arguing from ignorance, and pure speculation at best.
Shame, you seem to be a smart fello, IDEOLGIES 'ONLY' indeed. WOW, only difference is one part of the younger son's bloodline kept the senju name while the other ones kept another. What are they if no senju, this assness has to die, really.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:42 AM   #5
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Re: Since nagato is...

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Originally Posted by tien View Post
Shame, you seem to be a smart fello, IDEOLGIES 'ONLY' indeed.
"Fire" and "hatred", as Obito once said, are the ideologies of Sasuke (Hatred) and Naruto/Konoha (Will of Fire). The fight between Naruto and Sasuke will be an ideological conflict, not a clan hatred.

Quote:
WOW, only difference is one part of the younger son's bloodline kept the senju name while the other ones kept another.
A few things are wrong with this:
1. The Uzumaki were known for longevity, the Senju were not.
2. The Uzumaki lived in a different country from the Senju.
3. The Uzumaki were known for sealing techniques primarily. Senju were known for their power and knowledge of all techniques.
4. The Uzumaki clan had a trademark trait, red hair. Now, not all Uzumaki have red hair (Naruto). Senju clan had mostly brown hair (Tobirama appeared to be the exception to that rule), suggesting a different expression in genes stemming from a larger divergence than "they changed their name".

Quote:
What are they if no senju,
They are Uzumaki, descendants of the younger son and heirs to a portion of the Sage's legacy (which makes it redundant for Naruto to be Senju, since he has ties to the sage through his Uzumaki heritage).

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this assness has to die, really.
Agreed. Senjutards need to give it up. Nothing they say can logically point to Naruto being Senju. The redundancy of it alone debunks the idea.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:03 PM   #6
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Re: Since nagato is...

I must disagree about a jump HM... Nagato is of the senju lineage as expected because the Uzumaki are basically senju as a brother clan with the senju to the younger son of the sage...

Nagato uzumaki was senju, thus could use the RG eye's properly unlike obito who is using the RG on his uchiha side of the body which uses only uchiha chakra, not senju... meaning obito can only use the most basic abilities of the RG which is the six paths jutsu to control bodies by transmigrating his chakra then having a telepathic link with the other eyes of the bodies... thus share vision and see from all angles... That is it...

Only by transplanting the RG eye into his Senju side could obito use the 7 unique doujutsu that nagato could use, but that would mean he could not use his MS properly and it would start going blind being used by the uchiha side...

ANyways, nagato as an uzumaki is basically senju, thus naruto has the same lineage as well... But nagato is clearly far more uzumaki by having red hair then naruto who has taken after his father and the namikaze clan... naruto with the name uzumaki is only as a name, uzumaki pretty much... that is it... naruto has taken very little from his mother's clan so he is very little uzumaki and thus even less senju....
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:16 PM   #7
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Re: Since nagato is...

Madara himself called Nagato a Senju

We have instances of uzumaki in the whirlpool country the leaf and amegakure and proof that uzumaki left the land of eddies from long ago as with mito and as recently as Kushina and Karin

It's common practice for kage and jinchuriki to share family relationships and we even see examples of jinchuriki who were Kage ie Gaara and Yagura. When Mito was about to pass Kushina was brought to the leaf and Minato was wed to her. This is how control of the leaf went to Hiruzen. Hashirama wasn't going to kill his wife she was to outlive him so he left the village in his brothers hands so he could protect the jinchuriki. Hiruzen was close to the first an second and entrusted with protecting Mito. She is about to die and it's proven uzumaki can house a biju so Kushina is brought tithe village. Minato and the Nikaze is a offshoot of senju and maries Kushina.

Obito steps in an naruto is the jinchuriki. Off to find Tsunade to keep it in the family !

There was no redundancy in Obito's contrast between Naruto and Sasuke not only did he contrast the philosophy of fire and hatred he contrasted the clans senju and uchiha and their representatives naruto and Sasuke. He could have said uzumaki the senju offshoot and uchiha but he didn't

We know Naruto is an uzumaki and we knew Nagato was one as well. Madara stated Nagato was able to handle the rinnegan due to his senju lineage. Madara and Obito both have Senju DNA allowing them to operate the rinnegan

Naruto uzumaki

Nagato uzumaki

Nagato ... Senju

Naruto....

Tsunade...

Minato.....

Nagato... Senju


Naruto...........Senju!!!!!
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:19 AM   #8
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Re: Since nagato is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
Madara himself called Nagato a Senju
Zetsu was the one that stated that. An asspull that has no explanation since Obito has already declared him an Uzumaki. The only reason it was even stated was for an explanation as to why Nagato could control the Gedou Mazou. It was also mentioned that, aside from Madara, Nagato was the ONLY PERSON that could control the Gedou and awaken the Rinnegan.

Quote:
We have instances of uzumaki in the whirlpool country the leaf and amegakure
That was after the Whirlpool village was wiped out, and the clan scattered across the continent.

Quote:
and proof that uzumaki left the land of eddies from long ago as with mito
We don't have a definitive timeline for the founding of Konoha, so "long ago" is an arbitrary construct that has no relevance to the argument.

Quote:
and as recently as Kushina and Karin
Again, that was AFTER the village was wiped out and the clan remnants scattered.

Quote:
It's common practice for kage and jinchuriki to share family relationships
To ensure the jink doesn't go rogue and betray the village. A weapon that can change the landscape like the bijuu needs to be tightly controlled.

Quote:
and we even see examples of jinchuriki who were Kage ie Gaara and Yagura.
Relevance? Neither are Senju or Uzumaki.

Quote:
When Mito was about to pass Kushina was brought to the leaf and Minato was wed to her.
"Minato was wed to her"? You make it sound like an arranged marriage. Minato was a nobody when they met

Quote:
This is how control of the leaf went to Hiruzen.
...wut?

Quote:
Hashirama wasn't going to kill his wife she was to outlive him so he left the village in his brothers hands so he could protect the jinchuriki. Hiruzen was close to the first an second and entrusted with protecting Mito.
Or, and this is just a wild speculation (see also: shown in the manga), Hashirama and Tobirama were grooming Hiruzen, a genius of no small skill, to follow in their footsteps. And, by the way, Hashirama wasn't even around when Hiruzen became Hokage. Tobirama had already taken the mantle.

Quote:
She is about to die and it's proven uzumaki can house a biju
No, it isn't. Kushina stated she had strong chakra, even for an Uzumaki, that made her perfect for becoming a host. Clan ties had nothing to do with it.

Quote:
Minato and the Nikaze is a offshoot of senju
Why? Why make him related to the Senju? It makes it even more redundant than Naruto being Senju. Naruto is already descended from the Sage via his Uzumaki lineage, he doesn't need any more threads. It makes everything that much more convoluted for a manga targeted to early to late teens.

Quote:
Obito steps in an naruto is the jinchuriki.
Naruto is a jink of convenience. He was exposed to Kurama's chakra during Kushina's pregnancy, and had a large chakra pool (which is a requirement of a host).

Quote:
Off to find Tsunade to keep it in the family !
Except Tsunade wouldn't have been tracked down if Jiraiya felt he could have taken the title of Hokage. He was the one that suggested her because she is one of the "legendary Sannin" and grand daughter of the First Hokage. She has no familial ties to Naruto.

Quote:
We know Naruto is an uzumaki and we knew Nagato was one as well. Madara stated Nagato was able to handle the rinnegan due to his senju lineage. Madara and Obito both have Senju DNA allowing them to operate the rinnegan
Madara and Zetsu both stated that Nagato was the only other person besides Madara to be able to awaken the Rinnegan and summon the Gedou Mazou. Senju DNA is only required for an Uchiha to control the Gedou, doesn't necessarily mean they get a Rinnegan.

Quote:
Naruto uzumaki

Nagato uzumaki

Nagato ... Senju

Naruto....

Tsunade...

Minato.....

Nagato... Senju


Naruto...........Senju!!!!!
You're an idiot.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:45 PM   #9
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Re: Since nagato is...

Its always been a battle of Will of Fire vs Curse of Hatred. Never about Senju and Uchiha.

Madara (Hates Konoha and his clan) vs Hashirama (WoF)
Obito (Hates the world) vs Kakashi (WoF)
Sasuke (Hates Konoha) vs Naruto (WoF)

The only uchiha (that we know of) that were able to break the curse were Itachi and Shisui. Senju has nothing to do with it,its always been idealogies.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:07 PM   #10
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Re: Since nagato is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Zetsu was the one that stated that. An asspull that has no explanation since Obito has already declared him an Uzumaki. The only reason it was even stated was for an explanation as to why Nagato could control the Gedou Mazou. It was also mentioned that, aside from Madara, Nagato was the ONLY PERSON that could control the Gedou and awaken the Rinnegan.



That was after the Whirlpool village was wiped out, and the clan scattered across the continent.



We don't have a definitive timeline for the founding of Konoha, so "long ago" is an arbitrary construct that has no relevance to the argument.



Again, that was AFTER the village was wiped out and the clan remnants scattered.



To ensure the jink doesn't go rogue and betray the village. A weapon that can change the landscape like the bijuu needs to be tightly controlled.



Relevance? Neither are Senju or Uzumaki.



"Minato was wed to her"? You make it sound like an arranged marriage. Minato was a nobody when they met



...wut?



Or, and this is just a wild speculation (see also: shown in the manga), Hashirama and Tobirama were grooming Hiruzen, a genius of no small skill, to follow in their footsteps. And, by the way, Hashirama wasn't even around when Hiruzen became Hokage. Tobirama had already taken the mantle.



No, it isn't. Kushina stated she had strong chakra, even for an Uzumaki, that made her perfect for becoming a host. Clan ties had nothing to do with it.



Why? Why make him related to the Senju? It makes it even more redundant than Naruto being Senju. Naruto is already descended from the Sage via his Uzumaki lineage, he doesn't need any more threads. It makes everything that much more convoluted for a manga targeted to early to late teens.



Naruto is a jink of convenience. He was exposed to Kurama's chakra during Kushina's pregnancy, and had a large chakra pool (which is a requirement of a host).



Except Tsunade wouldn't have been tracked down if Jiraiya felt he could have taken the title of Hokage. He was the one that suggested her because she is one of the "legendary Sannin" and grand daughter of the First Hokage. She has no familial ties to Naruto.



Madara and Zetsu both stated that Nagato was the only other person besides Madara to be able to awaken the Rinnegan and summon the Gedou Mazou. Senju DNA is only required for an Uchiha to control the Gedou, doesn't necessarily mean they get a Rinnegan.



You're an idiot.
You cna't understand a simple formula yet I'm the Idiot here lol

Sage - both clans in one body - had the rinnegan

Madara- Obtained Hashirama cells- both clans one body- takes a minute to bake but he gets the Rinnegan

Obito- transplanted Hashirama clone - Madara says (even if you dont awaken the rinnegan) the fact that he has both clans in one body allows him to summon the Mazou and use the Rinnegan

Nagato- by formula sake has to be both clans in one body *** remember he didn't awaken the Rinnegan it was transplanted into him*** he was able to use the Rinnegan and summon the Mazou the eyes were Uchiha eyes so him being of Senju lineage made him able to use the Rinnegan and the paths and what not.

As for the rest of your post. where is your proof that Uzumaki only left the land of eddies "after the massacre" I showed MIto being out of the village for Hahsirama so thats at least 80 years before the massacre. Remember the Uzushiokage and Hokage were around at the same time and yet Mito is in Konoha.http://www.mangapanda.com/93-54942-3...apter-500.html The

Kushina was brough tfrom there so the massacre happened some time after she was brought from there since the country existed http://www.mangapanda.com/93-54942-2...apter-500.html so again thats proof of at least 60 years of some Uzumaki outside of their village

and recently Nagato in Amegakure which is all the way on the western side of the land of fire Karin in one of Oro's northern hideouts. So I've met the burden of proof that there are instances of Uzumaki(Senju) being in other lands for a number of years and have given a conservative ballpark estimate for that time.

THe practice of Jinchuriki and Kage being close familly members Hahsirama -wife jink
Minato - wife jink son jink
3rd raikage -nephew jink 4th raikage blood brother jink kazekage - son jinc mizukage =jink gaara= jink

True it was to keep the power in check but what better way than to keep it in the familly.. the familly in power! The Relavance is to show a pattern .. you not understanding that beffuddles me.

Minato was wed to Kushina. She was chozen as the Jinchuriki long before Minato was made hokage. and MInato even stated that it was because of her that he was made Hokage. His selection and being and Member of the Senju clan makes since in terms of the kage jink relationship .. Hiruzen was Kage at the time if he was to keep a familly member close to the jinchuriki then why wasn't Asuma of Konohameru's dad wed to the jink???

Anyway Hiruzen put the biju back in Senju hands with Minato and with all going on and ot preserve the ablance in the village Minato put the fox into his son. Naruto being to young Hiruzen was put back in charge and when he dies village elders wanted jiraiya to take the mantle but he said no .. because he4 had another mission.. to teach the child of prophesy.. this was his life mission .. being Hokage he couldn't do it .. so he found Tsunade who was also a Sanin but also of Senju liniage who had a familial tie to the Jinchuriki.

Not only is it feasable it's a logical explanation using fuedal era passing of power
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:55 PM   #11
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Re: Since nagato is...

It's not logical, and you're an idiot.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:16 PM   #12
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Re: Since nagato is...

You sound like Mitt Romney not being able to come up with details about his tax plan.. Not only does it make you look silly but a looser like him as well.

# 2 terms #

Furthermore you had no comeback for the Tobi speech to Naruto with nothing more than what I've already said. Of course it will be a fight between ideologies.. Fire and hatred.. That much is obvious but he also said it would be a contest between 2 individuals Naruto and Sasuke. Then he said it will be a battle between clans Senju and Uchiha not Uchiha and Senju offshoot clan Uzumaki. He said Senju and Uchiha Sasuke meets the uchiha quotient and if Naruto is his opponent then he would have to fulfill the Senju quotient of the equation.

Its simple math or like fellow losers Romney and Ryan you can't do the math?
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for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

The power of despair is great in you.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlzx4...&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3qkz4WfOto

LOL I'M DYING BACK HERE
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:43 PM   #13
kael03
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Re: Since nagato is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
You sound like Mitt Romney not being able to come up with details about his tax plan.. Not only does it make you look silly but a looser like him as well.

# 2 terms #
For starters, I'm a Democrat. Second, I'm an atheist. This is extremely common knowledge here. So trying to compare me to captain magic underpants failed on at least 2 levels.

Quote:
Furthermore you had no comeback for the Tobi speech to Naruto with nothing more than what I've already said. Of course it will be a fight between ideologies.. Fire and hatred.. That much is obvious
Then why are you arguing against it?

Quote:
but he also said it would be a contest between 2 individuals Naruto and Sasuke.
Both of which represent the ideologies of Fire (Naruto - Will of Fire) and Hatred (Sasuke).

Quote:
Then he said it will be a battle between clans Senju and Uchiha not Uchiha and Senju offshoot clan Uzumaki. He said Senju and Uchiha Sasuke meets the uchiha quotient and if Naruto is his opponent then he would have to fulfill the Senju quotient of the equation.
Naruto and Sasuke are representatives of the clans respective ideologies. Naruto is a hardcore adherent of the Will of Fire, which is the ideology adopted by all of the Younger son's descendants (which includes the Uzumaki clan, numbnuts). Sasuke is a hardcore adherent of Hatred, which was adopted by the Elder son's descendants after the Elder son was not granted the Sage's power.

Quote:
Its simple math or like fellow losers Romney and Ryan you can't do the math?
Read above, retard.

By the way, your attempt to say all jinks are family to the kage is slightly off. A is not B's blood brother. B was adopted when he proved to be the only one that could do the lariat properly, when it was getting to be time for the Hachibi to switch hosts.

Also, Minato wasn't selected and matched to Kushina. He was a naturally gifted genius ninja that was only selected because Orochimaru, who was Hiruzen's first choice due to his own genius, was twisted/sadistic/murderous and defected and Jiraiya didn't want the title (and wanted to go after Orochimaru). When he said "you made me Hokage" it was due to her teaching him several Uzumaki seals and then him using his genius to expand on those seals.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:38 PM   #14
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Re: Since nagato is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
For starters, I'm a Democrat. Second, I'm an atheist. This is extremely common knowledge here. So trying to compare me to captain magic underpants failed on at least 2 levels.



Then why are you arguing against it?



Both of which represent the ideologies of Fire (Naruto - Will of Fire) and Hatred (Sasuke).



Naruto and Sasuke are representatives of the clans respective ideologies. Naruto is a hardcore adherent of the Will of Fire, which is the ideology adopted by all of the Younger son's descendants (which includes the Uzumaki clan, numbnuts). Sasuke is a hardcore adherent of Hatred, which was adopted by the Elder son's descendants after the Elder son was not granted the Sage's power.



Read above, retard.

By the way, your attempt to say all jinks are family to the kage is slightly off. A is not B's blood brother. B was adopted when he proved to be the only one that could do the lariat properly, when it was getting to be time for the Hachibi to switch hosts.

Also, Minato wasn't selected and matched to Kushina. He was a naturally gifted genius ninja that was only selected because Orochimaru, who was Hiruzen's first choice due to his own genius, was twisted/sadistic/murderous and defected and Jiraiya didn't want the title (and wanted to go after Orochimaru). When he said "you made me Hokage" it was due to her teaching him several Uzumaki seals and then him using his genius to expand on those seals.
someoen doesn't knwo what a blood brother is .. Blood brothers are brothers who are not related who usually form a bobd of brotherhood by mixing each others blood to signify that their blood is no longer seperate but one and the same. So my above aregument stands!

Hiruzen was hokage and due to the traditions shown in the wind village , cloud village , and Mist village Jinchuriki are chozen of familly members so Why wasn't any of his Sons picked to mary the jinchuriki so that the leaf could have control of it's biju???

J-man had a life mission of teaching the child of destiny, HIruzen couldn't entrust the biju to Roochimaru because he was twisted Tsunade was Chozen because she was "Princess Tsunade" and had a direct relation to the current biju host.

Minato despite having the last name Namikaze is a Senju much in the same way Naruto is Technically a Namikaze and not an Uzumaki according to you the one with the most prestige was to be used but Kushina was an Uzumaki who's clan was feared for sealing and taught the 4th hokage so she had just as much if not more prestigie. Why can't this be applied to Minato as well. there's an argument and counter argument for this and I've given one possibility.

Lastly the only way in which I compared you to captain magic underpants was in the reguards of you being a looser which you and he are and in the shared inability to follow a simple equation aka an ability to do the Math.

So Gov Romney you got any loopholes or deductions you wanna show in them there tax returns???
__________________
for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

The power of despair is great in you.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlzx4...&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3qkz4WfOto

LOL I'M DYING BACK HERE
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:01 PM   #15
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Re: Since nagato is...

Aaaaaaand fuck it. I'm done dealing with you. I'm not going to give myself an ulcer because you are so fucking brain damaged you have visual hallucinations.
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