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Old 11-07-2012, 03:46 PM   #15751
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

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Originally Posted by Vanity View Post
Everyone sniveling about the electoral college needs to calm their tits. It works along with popular vote well enough, and it's not even the large states with higher amount of electoral votes that are what matters, it's the small swing states.

I think it needs to be changed just as much as anyone, but it doesn't function as shitty as some people are saying, and they're being unfair about it.
thats the problem, small states can swing votes.

fuck middle america.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:07 PM   #15752
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

I do love the Electoral College, it's adorable.

"Many different proposals to alter the Presidential election process have been offered over the years, such as direct nation-wide election by the People, but none have been passed by Congress..."

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Reference sources indicate that over the past 200 years, over 700 proposals have been introduced in Congress to reform or eliminate the Electoral College. There have been more proposals for Constitutional amendments on changing the Electoral College than on any other subject. The American Bar Association has criticized the Electoral College as “archaic” and “ambiguous” and its polling showed 69 percent of lawyers favored abolishing it in 1987. But surveys of political scientists have supported continuation of the Electoral College. Public opinion polls have shown Americans favored abolishing it by majorities of 58 percent in 1967; 81 percent in 1968; and 75 percent in 1981.

Opinions on the viability of the Electoral College system may be affected by attitudes toward third parties. Third parties have not fared well in the Electoral College system. Candidates with regional appeal such as Governor Thurmond in 1948 and Governor Wallace in 1968, won blocs of electoral votes in the South. Neither come close to seriously challenging the major party winner, but they may have affected the overall outcome of the election.
Quote:
In a multi-candidate race where candidates have strong regional appeal, as in 1824, it is quite possible that a candidate who collects the most votes on a nation-wide basis will not win the electoral vote. In a two-candidate race, that is less likely to occur. But, it did occur in the Hayes/Tilden election of 1876 and the Harrison/Cleveland election of 1888 due to the statistical disparity between vote totals in individual state elections and the national vote totals. This also occurred in the 2000 presidential election, where George W. Bush received fewer popular votes than Albert Gore Jr., but received a majority of electoral votes.
We know how well that last one turned out for 'Merica.

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There is no Constitutional provision or Federal law that requires Electors to vote according to the results of the popular vote in their States
Lol.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:16 PM   #15753
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

Some of our smaller states are trying to enact laws that allow them to switch their electoral slate to match popular vote, though last I checked, I think only one actually does it...maybe two.

Edit: I lied, apparently eight states made the change in April.

I think the biggest reason it hasn't been changed is because it presents the opposite problem if they move to popular vote. Small states will lose their "voice" because campaigns will focus on areas with dense population [L.A, N.Y, Chicago, etc].
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Last edited by Vanity; 11-07-2012 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:02 PM   #15754
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

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I think the biggest reason it hasn't been changed is because it presents the opposite problem if they move to popular vote. Small states will lose their "voice" because campaigns will focus on areas with dense population [L.A, N.Y, Chicago, etc].
Yes and no. Yes, campaigns will start to visit more populated areas if the electoral college is gone but, unless they candidates are morons, they'll need to pay visits to much more states because about 80% of Americans reside in locales with less than 200 000 habitants, so winning with only the metropolis' votes won't make any candidate president. Also, with the electoral college gone, the winner-take-all system in each state will probably be gone too, so candidates can't rely on "blue and red states" and have to make every vote count for them.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:07 PM   #15755
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Yes and no. Yes, campaigns will start to visit more populated areas if the electoral college is gone but, unless they candidates are morons, they'll need to pay visits to much more states because about 80% of Americans reside in locales with less than 200 000 habitants, so winning with only the metropolis' votes won't make any candidate president. Also, with the electoral college gone, the winner-take-all system in each state will probably be gone too, so candidates can't rely on "blue and red states" and have to make every vote count for them.
I gave the same reasoning when I had to write a paper on it. I'm merely suggesting why it's still being clung to.




My bigger concern with it is the way they draw districts, and how it completely cuts out third parties.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:11 PM   #15756
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

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^ No way in hell those two co-exist.
Doom only picked Magneto as a running mate for the mutant vote.

We all know where the power lies.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:23 PM   #15757
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

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Originally Posted by Vanity View Post
I gave the same reasoning when I had to write a paper on it. I'm merely suggesting why it's still being clung to.
Ah, got it.

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My bigger concern with it is the way they draw districts, and how it completely cuts out third parties.
Gerrymandering in the US is an issue that borders the absurd, being its prime child the 4th district of Illinois aka the Hispanic headphones. I think implementing an obligatory algorithm of shape compactness when defining districts in every state would solve half of the problem. The other would be make it mandatory to have optimal balance of race, collar color and partisan inclination among all districts of a specific state.

About third parties, that's why I advocate for alternative vote. While it may not solve the bipartisan nature of the US politics, at least it'll give a chance for minor parties' supporters to vote on them without wasting said vote.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:32 PM   #15758
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

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About third parties, that's why I advocate for alternative vote. While it may not solve the bipartisan nature of the US politics, at least it'll give a chance for minor parties' supporters to vote on them without wasting said vote.
I've written an obscene amount about changing the party system all together and moving to a PR system, though I doubt we'd ever see such a change. Sometimes I like to sit in on my favourite professors 101 class, just to listen to him yell at them, and that so many of them cling to our bipartisan system is testament to my grief. People like our party system just because "that's how it's been, and it works, right?" And I hear this constantly when I try to urge others into thinking of the system differently.


Edit: My fucking phone is still ringing with election stuff. This is the third I've had just this hour.
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Last edited by Vanity; 11-07-2012 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:51 PM   #15759
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

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Originally Posted by Vanity View Post
I've written an obscene amount about changing the party system all together and moving to a PR system, though I doubt we'd ever see such a change. Sometimes I like to sit in on my favourite professors 101 class, just to listen to him yell at them, and that so many of them cling to our bipartisan system is testament to my grief. People like our party system just because "that's how it's been, and it works, right?" And I hear this constantly when I try to urge others into thinking of the system differently.
Coming from a country which has PR for almost 40 years (would be 100 if dictatorship didn't happen inbetween), I find it appalling people not wanting that system, specially considering how many people complain about the two parties not catering to their ideologies.

And, honestly, Republican moderates should be begging for PR, considering it would give the chance to restructure the party by making the extremists wanting other parties that better cater their ideologies and would get a shot at representation, thus the Republican party having the chance of being a serious and respected party instead of the punchline of every joke. (Needless to say, Democrats could also use the same renewal.)
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:57 PM   #15760
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

I like this version of Romney's concession speech. LOL, I love these guys.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:14 PM   #15761
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

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Doom only picked Magneto as a running mate for the mutant vote.

We all know where the power lies.
Galactus ?
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:36 PM   #15762
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

Cat, could you present an actual rational argument that is backed by credible, factual sources that supports your stance?


Also, I voted straight democrat primarily because republican social positions are all pretty horrible and anti-freedom. I don't understand economics beyond super basic shit (Not that any logical arguments I've read have suggested republican economic positions are in any way superior anyway). Glorious freedom are my highest priorities.

Also, PA sucks. I had a choice between Fuck Yeah, SOPA guy or a member of the Pro-Rape Brigade for senate. FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUU

And fuck all your shit. Voting is a stupid way of deciding anything. I wouldn't let some dumbasses that don't know shit about medicine vote on what medical procedures I should have done if I were sick/injured as fuck. Because that's stupid. Just like it's stupid that we have a bunch of derps who don't know shit about economics or logic or anything vote for people based on their economic policies and shit. I'm not that smart, so I dunno a better system. I am, however, a huge man-child who really likes science fiction and videogames, so I'd suggest and support AI overlords.


Also, that sandy storm raped faces here. That babe knocked down shit-tons of trees, and I went out and finished them off and chopped them to shit since I had nothing better to do since my power was out for over a week and I need wood for my wood stove thing anyway (They were pretty baby sized trees that fell in my property though...none of the big ones, because my trees aren't pussies I guess.). Everyone was crying like vaginas because they can't shower and they're cold and waahh while I just insta-make fires, feasted on stews and soups, and boil water to wash myself daily like a super beastly clean lumberjacking boss. And I got a lot of reading done too. At least for me. Entire Clash of Kings book in a week. By candlelight. With one eye. Manly, haha!
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:40 PM   #15763
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

Oh man. I almost forgot a reason why you were my favorite person ever.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:44 PM   #15764
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

Another four years of Obama? Fuck.

Four years of Romney? Fuck.

Simply sums up my thoughts.

2013 estate tax rising to 55% for net worth up to and over a million? Fuck. May sound selfish as hell but I do not want the revert of 2000/2001 to happen next year. My mawmaw is sick and her stocks, bonds and land just barely makes it past the million mark... Dad just got laid off, our awesome insurance is gone, and frankly my family will need the 340k we'd inherit with the current estate tax rate. Unless I'm missing something, I don't know, I'm pretty ignorant.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:30 AM   #15765
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Re: The Longest Thread Ever v28

Seems like there are estate planners that can really help with that kind of thing. Something with gifting before the end of the year or something like that maybe. I'm sure there is something that could be done, especially if it's that close to the exemption limit and whatnot.

That said, = (
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