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Old 12-03-2012, 05:11 PM   #136
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Re: Naruto_611

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Like I said, fire attacks, tiajutsu, sword jutsu, SG genjutsu and even EMS tsukuyomi...

The 3rd raikages raiton armour tanked the FRS.... And the 4th can take his a step further so that is why... Wind may counter lightning, but obviously the cloak is too strong as the manga has shown... Going by rules is not going to help when kishi contradicts the shit out of them...

Anyways, the point is that madara didn't need his one RG ability or senju DNA to get as far as he has gone.... His EMS is strong enough to take him there...
I stand corrected, he did use his Uchiha heritage based techniques. BUT the fact he has unlimited chakra AS AN EDO is why he is still standing, no? an entire Army would not be defeated by a living Madara, if that was the case I am pretty sure he would have at least got a rematch with Hashirama. I mean he lost, wen t into hiding. NEVER came back, doesn't sound like someone with the power to level an ARMY to me.

ALSO being an EDO allows Madara the leisure to "play around" with opponents to test his powers. Correct? He wouldn't have to chakra and immortality to do so otherwise.

Anyway...

The Rasenshuriken didn't work on the 3rd Raikage due to his unnatural DURABILITY not his raiton armor.

Right now Naruto has the most powerful wind jutsu it is destructive on a cellular level, too fast for the SG to even follow.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:55 AM   #137
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Re: Naruto_611

I'm impressed. I was expecting a small shipping argument to break out on here. Is it because evryone here is way to mature for shipping wars or no one cares anymore?
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:19 AM   #138
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Re: Naruto_611

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Originally Posted by emachina View Post
I'm impressed. I was expecting a small shipping argument to break out on here. Is it because evryone here is way to mature for shipping wars or no one cares anymore?
no one cares....too many arguments based around opinion anyway....but hey Shipping Wars..can you believe that is actually a tv show....only in America lol
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:34 AM   #139
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Re: Naruto_611

No matter who Nardo ends up with it won't change the fact that he wants some Uchiha dong.

That is why we don't debate that stuff around here.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:43 PM   #140
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Re: Naruto_611

Quote:
Originally Posted by jericho Uzimaki View Post
I stand corrected, he did use his Uchiha heritage based techniques. BUT the fact he has unlimited chakra AS AN EDO is why he is still standing, no? an entire Army would not be defeated by a living Madara, if that was the case I am pretty sure he would have at least got a rematch with Hashirama. I mean he lost, wen t into hiding. NEVER came back, doesn't sound like someone with the power to level an ARMY to me
.

Did you forget that once madara gained the EMS, he gained the power to take on the known world... He became known as the strongest in the world for a reason... SO clearly taking on an army himself is something he has done before... and could do again, just with different tactics without immortality and unlimited chakra...
and madara never fought hashirama again because there was no reason... Madara was not there to kill hashirama, merely gain his DNA and he did... SO he won his fight as far as he is concerned... after the fight, madara was infused in his chest wound with hashirama cells and was more powerful then ever yet never fought again, only prepared for the tsuki no mai because it was his true goal, not beating hashirama in a fight...

Madara could still drop meteors, but dawn himself in sasanoo to be protected... Could still use amaterasu which has yet to even be used by madara despite it's ability to turn an entire battle field to ash in moments... just depends on where madara fixes his gaze...

and madara's own chakra has to be legendary to create a perfect, full sized sasanoo... so that is not a problem obviously...

Quote:
ALSO being an EDO allows Madara the leisure to "play around" with opponents to test his powers. Correct? He wouldn't have to chakra and immortality to do so otherwise.
madara can play around to a certain extent, but would have to use more powerful jutsu to end the fight quicker because he does not have unlimited chakra... Madara uchiha is still madara uchiha... the guy who supposedly lost to hashirama, the shinobi with fairy tale abilities like the sage himself...

Yet, come to find out, hashirama and his wife fought madara, not just hashirama... Madara was trying to gain DNA for experimentation and madara still only got a chest wound... SO how is madara not the most powerful as he is supposed to be????

Quote:
Anyway...

The Rasenshuriken didn't work on the 3rd Raikage due to his unnatural DURABILITY not his raiton armor.
This durability??? The same durability that allowed him to be cut to pieces by a Wind Net attack... If he is so durable then why cannot he tank a regular win attack, but the raiton armour tanks the FRS...??? Clearly it is the raiton armour that is giving the defense not durability of skin...


Quote:
Right now Naruto has the most powerful wind jutsu it is destructive on a cellular level, too fast for the SG to even follow.
It is the most powerful, but how can you say not even the SG can follow??? Only the raikage in supermode is that fast... The FRS was dodged by the 3'rd raikage twice before being flanked by another one... And sasuke is capable of seeing speed of that level because it saw and countered the 4th raikage's attack...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


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People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

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Old 12-04-2012, 02:10 PM   #141
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Re: Naruto_611

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
It is the most powerful, but how can you say not even the SG can follow???
Because the manga says so.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:20 PM   #142
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Re: Naruto_611

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
.

Did you forget that once madara gained the EMS, he gained the power to take on the known world... He became known as the strongest in the world for a reason... SO clearly taking on an army himself is something he has done before... and could do again, just with different tactics without immortality and unlimited chakra...
and madara never fought hashirama again because there was no reason... Madara was not there to kill hashirama, merely gain his DNA and he did... SO he won his fight as far as he is concerned... after the fight, madara was infused in his chest wound with hashirama cells and was more powerful then ever yet never fought again, only prepared for the tsuki no mai because it was his true goal, not beating hashirama in a fight...

Madara could still drop meteors, but dawn himself in sasanoo to be protected... Could still use amaterasu which has yet to even be used by madara despite it's ability to turn an entire battle field to ash in moments... just depends on where madara fixes his gaze...

and madara's own chakra has to be legendary to create a perfect, full sized sasanoo... so that is not a problem obviously...



madara can play around to a certain extent, but would have to use more powerful jutsu to end the fight quicker because he does not have unlimited chakra... Madara uchiha is still madara uchiha... the guy who supposedly lost to hashirama, the shinobi with fairy tale abilities like the sage himself...

Yet, come to find out, hashirama and his wife fought madara, not just hashirama... Madara was trying to gain DNA for experimentation and madara still only got a chest wound... SO how is madara not the most powerful as he is supposed to be????
I don't think Madara set out to "gain DNA", I think he LOST and in a flare of brilliance he acquired some in the fight. I mean he went into hiding for goodness sake, sounds like he was either hurt so bad that the DNA is the only thing that saved him, or he got punk'd.I think he wanted to use infinite jutsu to put himself on top where he wanted to be.

The meteor dropping thing was an RG move. Madara was NOT more powerful than before when he used the DNA. it healed him and allowed him to live a very long time, not too long before he died is when he gained RG.

Look at how he is acting, if he had those abilities after he implanted "Hashigel instajutsu" he would have went BACK to KONOHA and killed Hashi and started taking over the ninja world while he was still young. That being said, he wouldn't NEED Juubi or the infinite daydream jutsu.

You do realize that EMS was what he had when he was 2nd banana to Hashi when creating Konoha right? He was not unbeatable, he was just extraordinary when fighting one on one. Hashirama fought him one on one, his wife just sealed the fox within herself.

why take away from Hashirama because of it? You might as well take away from Madara since he used Kurama in the first place.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:23 PM   #143
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Re: Naruto_611

Man I hope they show that fight in a flashback. At least that flashback i'd like to read. Better than Kabuto's mother flashback.

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:10 PM   #144
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Re: Naruto_611

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
.


Yet, come to find out, hashirama and his wife fought madara, not just hashirama... Madara was trying to gain DNA for experimentation and madara still only got a chest wound... SO how is madara not the most powerful as he is supposed to be????
Just because the manga says mito helped hashirama seal the nine tails into her doesnt actually mean she was right in the middle of battle. And again madara was using nine tails, i think that compensates for mito's involvement.
just FYI, the battle doesnt end after the nine tail is sealed, it continues. So which means mito would have been incapacitated by the nine tails' massive chakra and would not even be able to stand up let alone help hashirama.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:38 PM   #145
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Re: Naruto_611

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
LMAO!!! I was referring to the speed of the technique, not the ability to read all of the needle like wind attacks when it explodes on contact.... which not even the SG reading is not something amazing... That is thousands upon thousands of wind needle attacks... How does the manga claim the FRS is faster then the SG can read because it couldn't track all of it's pieces of attacks... not the FRS itself...

That is just stupid....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jericho Uzimaki View Post
I don't think Madara set out to "gain DNA", I think he LOST and in a flare of brilliance he acquired some in the fight. I mean he went into hiding for goodness sake, sounds like he was either hurt so bad that the DNA is the only thing that saved him, or he got punk'd.I think he wanted to use infinite jutsu to put himself on top where he wanted to be.
Everything obito said about himself as madara is what actually happened... and he said that madara fought hashirama to gain his DNA... not for a match of strength...


See... The only reason madara hid was to experiment...the reason madara was in hiding and never made a move beyond giving nagato his eyes and creating the zetsu and bringing back the juubi's body... was because he had a plan and step one was the awakening of the Sage's doujutsu, the RG...
However, that first step took him almost until his natural death, thus unable to carry out the rest of the plan on his own...

So madara implanted his eyes in nagato, created akatsuki, recruited obito and used the zetsu to gather the beast in his absence, but was supposed to be revived by nagato when the time was right...

Madara was not hiding because he was defeated and afraid... It was strategic for the world to believe he was dead so he could work and pursue his plan without any trouble... However, when the time was right... madara's reputation was used perfectly by obito to force himself to be taken seriously enough to create a new war so he could gain the last two bijuu....

Quote:
The meteor dropping thing was an RG move. Madara was NOT more powerful than before when he used the DNA. it healed him and allowed him to live a very long time, not too long before he died is when he gained RG.
Proof the meteor summoning was a RG move??? Yea... all madara did was summon a mountain... That could be done by anyone with enough chakra and a blood contract with a mountain...
ANd yes, even the little DNA he gained from hashirama and put into his wound would power him up some... Just only enough though that it took many years for th epower to charge up enough to awaken the RG from his EMS...

Quote:
Look at how he is acting, if he had those abilities after he implanted "Hashigel instajutsu" he would have went BACK to KONOHA and killed Hashi and started taking over the ninja world while he was still young. That being said, he wouldn't NEED Juubi or the infinite daydream jutsu.
I think you are forgetting madara's GOAL... It is to gather the bijuu and revive the juubi and become it's jink to gain the power to create infinite tsukuyomi... Nothing else...
Even if madara had gained the RG instantly by implanting the small amount of hashirama cells... He would not of wanted a rematch or invaded konaha... He would gathered the tailed beast himself... as apart of his actual plan...

Quote:
You do realize that EMS was what he had when he was 2nd banana to Hashi when creating Konoha right? He was not unbeatable, he was just extraordinary when fighting one on one. Hashirama fought him one on one, his wife just sealed the fox within herself.
Hashirama did not fight madara one on one if his wife thought she had to interfere, sealing away madara's mobile nuke to help her husband... That is outside interference... making it two on one....
Think about it... if hashirama is so strong and was doing so well to beat madara then why did his wife have to step in to seal away madara's kyuui to assist hashirama???
And yes, it was to assist him, even kushina knew so...


In no way was madara the second banana... Madara proved he was stronger by fighting hashirama merely to gain his DNA, not even to annihilate him and he still needed his wives help to stop him... and could still only wound madara which was patched up quickly with his own DNA...

SO, madara fought hashirama to gain his DNA, he got it... while hashirama fought madara to kill him for good and even had his wife step in to help and still could only wound madara...

Nope, Madara WON... He achieved his goal, getting the DNA while all hashirama could do was wound madara when he was clearly trying to kill him...

Quote:
why take away from Hashirama because of it? You might as well take away from Madara since he used Kurama in the first place.
Madara defeated and tamed the kyuubi and thus was his own ninja weapon... The same way nagato tamed and gained control of all his summons making them his own weapons...

However, Mito Uzumaki is merely his wife and ally who stepped in to assist her husband which would not be necessary if hashirama was so strong that he could actually defend himself on his own, but clearly madara was too mcuh for him so madara is clearly the stronger shinobi getting what he wanted... hashi DNA...
and hashirama failed to kill madara even with his wife's help only wounding him... That is the reality of what happened...
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:44 PM   #146
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Re: Naruto_611

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Originally Posted by Pritha View Post
Just because the manga says mito helped hashirama seal the nine tails into her doesnt actually mean she was right in the middle of battle. And again madara was using nine tails, i think that compensates for mito's involvement.
just FYI, the battle doesnt end after the nine tail is sealed, it continues. So which means mito would have been incapacitated by the nine tails' massive chakra and would not even be able to stand up let alone help hashirama.
Mito stepped in to Aid her husband that is supposed to be so strong that he can beat madara on his own, yet evidence shows otherwise and nobody wants to accept it...

And the kyuubi became madara's ninja weapon the moment he tamed it, then captured it... and then could summon it... Thus is nothing but a summon... You are trying to act like madara had some unfair advantage so his wife's interference was OK, which is not correct...

Madara was too much for hashirama, just admit it... Madara uchiha fought hashirama to gain his DNA while hashirama fought madara to put an end to him once and for all yet could only wound him even with his wife's help...

CONCLUSION: Madara won the fight achieving his goal while hashirama failed, unable to kill madara only wound him... then end!
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:47 PM   #147
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Re: Naruto_611

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
LMAO!!! I was referring to the speed of the technique, not the ability to read all of the needle like wind attacks when it explodes on contact.... which not even the SG reading is not something amazing... That is thousands upon thousands of wind needle attacks... How does the manga claim the FRS is faster then the SG can read because it couldn't track all of it's pieces of attacks... not the FRS itself...

That is just stupid....
...you do realize that Jericho was referring to the strikes made by the Rasenshuriken when he was talking about it being faster than the sharingan can register, right? I don't give a shit what you were referring to, I was explaining what Jericho meant.

By the way, the meteor attack is a Rinnegan ability. Nagato used it when he was brought back and fighting Naruto. So, Madara wouldn't have been able to use it until just before he died, since that was when he woke the Rinnegan.

Inb4various ad hominen attacks about being "biased" and a "hater" or some other stupid bullshit.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:47 PM   #148
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Re: Naruto_611

Bottom line. Madara was no scrub. He was/is strong as fuck....think about this. Yamato can suppress the 9 tails chakra. The wood dragon that hashi had that madara used drained the kyubii s chakra. So I assume (could be wrong) as soon as madara summoned the kyubii hashi had something for it. The prob was like ppl said, the fight continued. At the end of the day hashi is stronger than madara, by how much we don't know. That wasnt there first fight they met before on the battle field like obito said. Nobody was killed so they were pretty much even if not someone would have been killed OR madara wouldn't have been seen as the strongest shit like tobi said. Madara had a plan...to get DNA. I'm pretty sure he went there with the Intent to kill but he couldn't kill hashi. At the end of the day tho, he got what he wanted. He's second strongest only to hashi and that's not that bad because hashi is strong as the fuck just based off of the techs we've seen madara do. Kabuto said when people heard of his powers they thought it was a fairy tale lmao. If you had no knowledge of what he could do almost everyone would get fucked up. Madara as a edo with hashi cells is damn near unbeatable tho. That's the point. He was in a sense more knowledgeable than hashi IMO because he straight up said if he knew the Kage would be thaT weak he would have TAUGHT HASHI HOW TO COME BACK FROM THE DEAD. I think thats in 577 im nt 100% tho. He was on some other sht. Hashi wasn't even thinking about attaining the sages power or coming back. Madara as a edo is the shit. If he was mortal and didnt have hashi cells then idk if he could wipe out the alliance. Probably, just not in one sitting but thats speculation. He'd wipe out divisions tho and come back after he recharged his chakra, rinse and repeat. The prob is we don't kno all of his techs, but he has more than a fan, Katon, and kyubii because he wouldn't be able to push hashi to his limits with just that. Hashi can tame bijuu, or the in tails at least I get that cause Yamato can suppress kyubii chakra and he's a fraction of hashi. His wife had to come seal the kyubii because for some reason he with couldn't do it or madara wouldn't let him... You wouldn't let ur girl get into your fight like that and seal a demon fox in her that possibly incapacitated her unless u needed it. Period. So that's what it is...he needed that help to get 9 tails out the way so he could fight madara..N a sense madara lost the fight and won the war. Where's hashi now?

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Old 12-04-2012, 10:01 PM   #149
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Re: Naruto_611

@KYF

Only Mrs. Uzumaki-Senju and Naruto "tamed" Kurama.

Madara "controlled " him with his SG. They way I see the fight it was similar to Minato vs Obito.

Hashi takes Kurama out of the fight by subduing it with wood dragon(lol), Mito then sees it as an opportunity to take it off the playing field for ANY future attacks. If you remember it was Hashirama that passed the Bijuu to the other villages initially. THAT IS POWER, by the way.

Mito Uzumaki-Senju, was more than likely present when Madara attacked, maybe thinking Hashirama would be focused on protecting her. I mean they were out away from the village, probably just spending quality time together. The fight created Valley of the End, so before that it was just an area of forest.

I'm with Amuro on this....

Madara wanted to kill Hashirama, just couldn't for whatever reason.

I think that the story he told Obito is a little embellished though. he lost and has too much pride to say, "yeah I have EMS and the 9 tails but I got severely injured. I noticed I had some of his flesh in my weapons form an attack. SO I experimented and it healed me but I was still very weak, I couldn't face him again."

then...

"So as time passed I unlocked the RG in my old age, I read the Uchiha tablet completely and found I could prolong my life by summoning the Gedo Mazo. After that I came up with the Infinite-by product of the Sage of Six Paths technique-Genjutsu."

then...

"So I meet this emotionally fragile kid and manipulated him into thinking we had the same goals. Get this, wait for it....he even agreed to bring me back from the dead,lol"


just saying if he could have killed Hashi he would have a long time ago. Considering how the Senju push kindness and forgiveness, Hashirama probably only fought to kill Madara at VotE.(pure speculation, I admit)
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:17 AM   #150
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Re: Naruto_611

And to add to that , how do u know Hashi was fighting to kill?
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