Bleach 519 - Page 3

Vengeance · 12-05-2012, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apacolypz

Obviously so, so the bigger loop hole for Kubo regarding Aizen is why did he spend so much time defeating SS; focusing on the Hogyoku, trying to ascend himself to a higher entity? But his goal was to steal the key enter SK, defeat the King of Souls and become God? When the true key in SS was Yama himself. He could of easily hypnotized Yama into letting him enter/exit at his whim..

Maybe Aizen didn't know the key was in Yamamoto's bones? Like really now how could he possibly know that? Also why would Yama willingly grant Aizen passage to the soul king? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The only real option for Aizen was to recreate the key which is what he was trying to do in the first place. No real plot hole here.

Edit: About Urahara it was confirmed a long time ago that he at the very least saw the spirit king based on his conversation with Aizen. This implies that he did in fact at some point go to the Soul Palace. Thought everyone already knew that.

apacolypz · 12-05-2012, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vengeance

Maybe Aizen didn't know the key was in Yamamoto's bones? Like really now how could he possibly know that? Also why would Yama willingly grant Aizen passage to the soul king? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The only real option for Aizen was to recreate the key which is what he was trying to do in the first place. No real plot hole here.

Edit: About Urahara it was confirmed a long time ago that he at the very least saw the spirit king based on his conversation with Aizen. This implies that he did in fact at some point go to the Soul Palace. Thought everyone already knew that.

UM what does Aizen's bankai or even the glance at his shikai grant him? Perfect hypnosis..like I said..Aizen could of learned anything from Yama and also gain access to the Soul Kingdom. Again read what I said..otherwise yes it would not make since...

Dagoro · 12-05-2012, 02:43 PM

http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/99869168/12

Who is that dude with Orihime ?

apacolypz · 12-05-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro

http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/99869168/12

Who is that dude with Orihime ?

i thought it was flat chested Rukia lol

ask me anything · 12-05-2012, 03:37 PM

Isn't that Ichigo's sister?

Dagoro · 12-05-2012, 03:48 PM

If only Ichigo had a pulse...

ckraizitee · 12-06-2012, 06:13 AM

Aizens hypnosis can't control you like itachi's, it only creates illusions. Tsukishimas power on the other hnd can be used to deceive d ccommnder into opening the soul king's section.

apacolypz · 12-06-2012, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckraizitee

Aizens hypnosis can't control you like itachi's, it only creates illusions. Tsukishimas power on the other hnd can be used to deceive d ccommnder into opening the soul king's section.

It could not come close to what Aizen's Kyoka is capable of...pretty cool but as we saw...Byakuya took down Tsukishimas power alone...it took the whole SS to defeat Aizen (really one guy...Ichigo lol)

Aizen's zanpakutō is Kyōka Suigetsu (鏡花水月?, literally "Mirror Flower Water Moon"), which is also a Chinese proverb that teaches people about temptations. It is activated with the command "shatter" (砕けろ kudakero?). Kyōka Suigetsu's Shikai ability is Kanzen Saimin (完全催眠?, literally "Complete Hypnosis"). It controls the five senses to the point that it can make the target misinterpret form, shape, mass, feel and smell. The initiation condition for the hypnosis is to show the enemy the release of Kyōka Suigetsu. After seeing it just once, that person will completely succumb to the hypnosis. After that, every time it is released, that person will fall under the thrall of the hypnosis. The hypnosis is apparently long-lasting, seeing as the Visoreds are still affected by Kyōka Suigetsu even though they were hypnotized at least 110 years ago. Since the spell only works upon seeing the ritual, those who cannot see are consequently immune to the hypnosis. When Aizen turns off the hypnosis by force of will, the image shown melts away/shatters. Kyōka Suigetsu's Kanzen Saimin technique is absolutely flawless;

While the illusions Kyōka Suigetsu creates are quite powerful, those with considerable power and skill themselves may be able to note slight differences in the illusions compared to the real thing, even if they are not able to determine what, precisely, is different.

the only flaw in his ability....and even so as we saw with Unoharu (forgot how to spell her name) Medic Captain) she was under the influence but noticed small changes (only ..finally she started to put the pieces together....

You should not underestimate his powers..he was able to trick Juha Bach into thinking he had more time left....Aizen was restrained and did all that without his sword....

ask me anything · 12-06-2012, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vengeance

Maybe Aizen didn't know the key was in Yamamoto's bones? Like really now how could he possibly know that? Also why would Yama willingly grant Aizen passage to the soul king? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The only real option for Aizen was to recreate the key which is what he was trying to do in the first place. No real plot hole here.

Edit: About Urahara it was confirmed a long time ago that he at the very least saw the spirit king based on his conversation with Aizen. This implies that he did in fact at some point go to the Soul Palace. Thought everyone already knew that.

Aizen did extensive research on how to make the key. With the elaborate measures he went through to try to make it, I'm pretty sure you would agree, he would have thought to ask himself "Geez what's this key thing gonna look like when I'm done?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by apacolypz

It could not come close to what Aizen's Kyoka is capable of...pretty cool but as we saw...Byakuya took down Tsukishimas power alone...it took the whole SS to defeat Aizen (really one guy...Ichigo lol)

Aizen's zanpakutō is Kyōka Suigetsu (鏡花水月?, literally "Mirror Flower Water Moon"), which is also a Chinese proverb that teaches people about temptations. It is activated with the command "shatter" (砕けろ kudakero?). Kyōka Suigetsu's Shikai ability is Kanzen Saimin (完全催眠?, literally "Complete Hypnosis"). It controls the five senses to the point that it can make the target misinterpret form, shape, mass, feel and smell. The initiation condition for the hypnosis is to show the enemy the release of Kyōka Suigetsu. After seeing it just once, that person will completely succumb to the hypnosis. After that, every time it is released, that person will fall under the thrall of the hypnosis. The hypnosis is apparently long-lasting, seeing as the Visoreds are still affected by Kyōka Suigetsu even though they were hypnotized at least 110 years ago. Since the spell only works upon seeing the ritual, those who cannot see are consequently immune to the hypnosis. When Aizen turns off the hypnosis by force of will, the image shown melts away/shatters. Kyōka Suigetsu's Kanzen Saimin technique is absolutely flawless;

SO if it doesn't work as you say...how was he able to trick Tousen to work for him?

While the illusions Kyōka Suigetsu creates are quite powerful, those with considerable power and skill themselves may be able to note slight differences in the illusions compared to the real thing, even if they are not able to determine what, precisely, is different.

the only flaw in his ability....and even so as we saw with Unoharu (forgot how to spell her name) Medic Captain) she was under the influence but noticed small changes (only ..finally she started to put the pieces together....

You should not underestimate his powers..he was able to trick Juha Bach into thinking he had more time left....Aizen was restrained and did all that without his sword....

WTF dude? Aizen fools the 5 senses with his shikia. That is all. He can't break peoples will, and force them to do things they don't want to. Why would you even argue that after you just quoted something (databook or wikipedia?) specifically stating his powers?

P.S. Aizen didn't mind control Tousen. Go back and reread the manga. It specifically says this 2 or 3 times. Aizen just played on his insecurities and twisted his sense of justice. Tousen had a friend who was wrongly convicted of a crime and killed for it. Tousen got all butt hurt that his little buddy got killed, and from then on decided to become a shinigami so he could use his powers to promote justice. Aizen came along and twisted his mind by pointed out that his idea of promoting justice was flawed, since the guys they work for (Central 46 and by default the king also) are the ones who make the policies, many of which are themselves unjust. So the only way to promote true justice is to kill these guys and take control themselves. To this end Tousen WILLINGLY helped Aizen.

kael03 · 12-06-2012, 07:59 PM

Actually, ama, Tousen's freind was killed by her husband, who was a shinigami, and nothing was done about it. That is why he joined the 13 squads, to get close to the husband and exact justice on him.

ckraizitee · 12-07-2012, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apacolypz

It could not come close to what Aizen's Kyoka is capable of...pretty cool but as we saw...Byakuya took down Tsukishimas power alone...it took the whole SS to defeat Aizen (really one guy...Ichigo lol)

Aizen's zanpakutō is Kyōka Suigetsu (鏡花水月?, literally "Mirror Flower Water Moon"), which is also a Chinese proverb that teaches people about temptations. It is activated with the command "shatter" (砕けろ kudakero?). Kyōka Suigetsu's Shikai ability is Kanzen Saimin (完全催眠?, literally "Complete Hypnosis"). It controls the five senses to the point that it can make the target misinterpret form, shape, mass, feel and smell. The initiation condition for the hypnosis is to show the enemy the release of Kyōka Suigetsu. After seeing it just once, that person will completely succumb to the hypnosis. After that, every time it is released, that person will fall under the thrall of the hypnosis. The hypnosis is apparently long-lasting, seeing as the Visoreds are still affected by Kyōka Suigetsu even though they were hypnotized at least 110 years ago. Since the spell only works upon seeing the ritual, those who cannot see are consequently immune to the hypnosis. When Aizen turns off the hypnosis by force of will, the image shown melts away/shatters. Kyōka Suigetsu's Kanzen Saimin technique is absolutely flawless;

SO if it doesn't work as you say...how was he able to trick Tousen to work for him?

While the illusions Kyōka Suigetsu creates are quite powerful, those with considerable power and skill themselves may be able to note slight differences in the illusions compared to the real thing, even if they are not able to determine what, precisely, is different.

the only flaw in his ability....and even so as we saw with Unoharu (forgot how to spell her name) Medic Captain) she was under the influence but noticed small changes (only ..finally she started to put the pieces together....

You should not underestimate his powers..he was able to trick Juha Bach into thinking he had more time left....Aizen was restrained and did all that without his sword....

This doesn't explain your reply to veng, aizen can't hypnotise the captain commander forcing him to open the soul kingdom and he can't use it to get any information from him. or explain how this can be done.

apacolypz · 12-07-2012, 05:03 AM

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v20/c171/13.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v20/c171/14.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v20/c171/15.html

Aizen can make himself appear to be anyone..he can manipulate the very world around him..To the SS Captains he could of easily made them think they were within the Soul Kingdom. Could of pretended to be a Zero Squad member and just waited for Yama to open the gate/portal if you will. I am not trying or attempting to troll here for Aizen's sake.

I could easily be misconstrued. but from the many sites I have read this from they all seem to translate he MADE Tousen his slave/subordinate....from the start..if it didn't mean that why would he place those words following his discussion with Unohara?

kael03 · 12-07-2012, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apacolypz

I could easily be misconstrued. but from the many sites I have read this from they all seem to translate he MADE Tousen his slave/subordinate....from the start..if it didn't mean that why would he place those words following his discussion with Unohara?

Except Aizen specifically stated that one has to SEE his shikai to be influenced by it. Since Tosen is blind he can't be affected by Aizen's hypnosis, but was always loyal to Aizen. His wording was very specific in his explanation.

"Since the spell works when you SEE the ritual, those who CAN NOT SEE are consequently immune to the hypnosis." He never subjugated Tousen. Tousen joined Aizen because Aizen was going to allow him the chance to get revenge for his friend's death.

apacolypz · 12-07-2012, 05:55 AM

i did understand that but being that his abilities target the five senses, I just overlooked his sight. Anyway Tousen was something I admitted misunderstanding possibly. Thanks for your response.

kael03 · 12-07-2012, 06:26 AM

Aizen's shikai controls the 5 senses, but it doesn't target them when he first places someone under his influence. It requires visual contact with his shikai releasing to give him control over the other 4 senses.

12-05-2012, 02:43 PM	#33
Dagoro Daifunka Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Braving the New World. Posts: 8,806 Thanks: 72 Thanked 7,308 Times in 2,911 Posts	Re: Bleach 519 http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/99869168/12 Who is that dude with Orihime ? __________________

12-05-2012, 03:37 PM	#35
ask me anything Simply AMAzing Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Impel Down Posts: 3,105 Thanks: 9,008 Thanked 3,435 Times in 1,530 Posts	Re: Bleach 519 Isn't that Ichigo's sister? __________________

12-05-2012, 03:48 PM	#36
Dagoro Daifunka Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Braving the New World. Posts: 8,806 Thanks: 72 Thanked 7,308 Times in 2,911 Posts	Re: Bleach 519 If only Ichigo had a pulse... __________________

12-06-2012, 06:13 AM	#37
ckraizitee Genin Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 252 Thanks: 1,180 Thanked 63 Times in 51 Posts	Re: Bleach 519 Aizens hypnosis can't control you like itachi's, it only creates illusions. Tsukishimas power on the other hnd can be used to deceive d ccommnder into opening the soul king's section.

12-06-2012, 07:59 PM	#40
kael03 Aspiring Physicist Join Date: May 2010 Age: 27 Posts: 4,660 Thanks: 4,942 Thanked 8,590 Times in 3,811 Posts	Re: Bleach 519 Actually, ama, Tousen's freind was killed by her husband, who was a shinigami, and nothing was done about it. That is why he joined the 13 squads, to get close to the husband and exact justice on him.

12-07-2012, 05:03 AM	#42
apacolypz Jounin Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: NC Raleigh Posts: 981 Thanks: 496 Thanked 669 Times in 293 Posts	Re: Bleach 519 http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v20/c171/13.html http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v20/c171/14.html http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v20/c171/15.html Aizen can make himself appear to be anyone..he can manipulate the very world around him..To the SS Captains he could of easily made them think they were within the Soul Kingdom. Could of pretended to be a Zero Squad member and just waited for Yama to open the gate/portal if you will. I am not trying or attempting to troll here for Aizen's sake. I could easily be misconstrued. but from the many sites I have read this from they all seem to translate he MADE Tousen his slave/subordinate....from the start..if it didn't mean that why would he place those words following his discussion with Unohara? Last edited by apacolypz; 12-07-2012 at 05:07 AM.

12-07-2012, 05:55 AM	#44
apacolypz Jounin Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: NC Raleigh Posts: 981 Thanks: 496 Thanked 669 Times in 293 Posts	Re: Bleach 519 i did understand that but being that his abilities target the five senses, I just overlooked his sight. Anyway Tousen was something I admitted misunderstanding possibly. Thanks for your response.

12-07-2012, 06:26 AM	#45
kael03 Aspiring Physicist Join Date: May 2010 Age: 27 Posts: 4,660 Thanks: 4,942 Thanked 8,590 Times in 3,811 Posts	Re: Bleach 519 Aizen's shikai controls the 5 senses, but it doesn't target them when he first places someone under his influence. It requires visual contact with his shikai releasing to give him control over the other 4 senses.

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