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Old 12-08-2012, 07:28 AM   #61
jericho Uzimaki
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

Unless Kishi wants them too.

But I can see how the med ninjas will heal and aide the "attacking" ninjas in prolonging their onslaught to last 5 minutes. I mean they do not all have to attack at the same time.

I mean actually Kishi could have had Naruto shadow clone in the beginning and just swarm Obito for five minutes. with synchronized attacks. THAT could be what is about to happen here with the Ninjutsu users/med ninja attack.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:20 AM   #62
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

I haven't seen the Hyuuga that could match wits with Madara, Obito, Itachi, Sasuke, at all. Whomever he or she is, they haven't been born in this manga yet. Hyuugas are bottom of the food chain in the land of 'Magic Eyeballs', and maybe I tend to overhype Uchihas, but thats what I've seen so far in the manga. It isn't to say that Hyuuga's don't have skill, but they wouldn't have any 'additional' luck in striking an Uchiha they're overall eye jutsu would pwn whatever the Hyuugas could actually see. Additionally with Madara & Obito, I could think that even if they're chakra systems were hindered at all, at this point in the manga, Hara's DNA would heal whatever ills they had. Beyond that Madara's supposedly immortal, currently according to him, he can't die, run out of chakra, or be mortally wounded.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:32 AM   #63
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

you can't heal an on/off switch.

maybe Madara and Obito being hooked to the juubi could over power it though.

i do dislike where Kishi went with the doujutsus though. I like where it SEEMED to be going in Part I. SG came from BG legend. to me RG didn't need to come into play or the whole Sage of 6 Paths plot either.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:15 PM   #64
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

Actually, I can see obito getting fucked up by the alliance, just nt madara yet. I think/hope madara is left for sasuke. Either sasuke oro and gang will beat him, or TnJ him. Like madaras whole plan is kinda pathetic. U got beat up and now u wanna run from reality and recreat your own where your the "winner" and there's no "losers". That's a disgrace to the uchiha. If he get the TnJ that will keep madaras power and legacy intact. You'll always kno how beast he is, instead of saying "we'll sasuke beat him. Or so and so beat him so he's nt that strong".

As far as obito goes...pshh IMO we've seen how he's gonna go out. Either switch sides after seeing naruto. OR, and this is my fave: getting his ass whooped. Kakashi gets healed and some chakra back, warps to the other dimension. While the alliance continuously attacks obito, he'll be forced to phase...and kakashi will be there waiting for him lol. Every time obito phases hell get attacked either way and eventually be forced to either not phase or just fight kakashi in the dimension...kakashis year! Without the warping ability obito can stand up to kakashi IMO.

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Old 12-08-2012, 02:31 PM   #65
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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Originally Posted by ckraizitee View Post
i just started reading 'one peace'. the plots storyline are very good.
My issue is luffy doesnt train but keeps defeating every opponent, are they saying from the beggining he had the strenght to fight arlong but yet he didnt defeat his fisrt opponent(when saving zoro) with one hit.
Zoro trains so thats cool. Im at where crocodile locked them up in a cage.
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Originally Posted by jericho Uzimaki View Post
you can't heal an on/off switch.

maybe Madara and Obito being hooked to the juubi could over power it though.

i do dislike where Kishi went with the doujutsus though. I like where it SEEMED to be going in Part I. SG came from BG legend. to me RG didn't need to come into play or the whole Sage of 6 Paths plot either.
I don't agree, the Hyuuga's jutsu actually hits the enemy in an area blocking chakra, therefore preventing him/her from the use of jutsu. This comes from the blow, which honestly at these power levels they'res not been a Hyuuga born ever IMHO that could actually have enough power to hit Madara in said spot to even make him 'refresh' his Harashirma DNA Boost. The only damage he has truly taken is when he dropped meteors on himself and everybody, playing with his Edo. No one has come close to hitting him with anything that made him raise his eyebrows as if to say 'this may be a challenge' I find it funny they're acutually going all out on Jyuubi, all of the 'heros' initially didn't have any answer for Madara & Obito, I'd go smaller first.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:07 PM   #66
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
Wtf are you talking about ? Luffy has no list of cheats.
he doesn't ? guess having top brass of the marines looking out for you growing up with the pirate kings son your father being the the leader of the rebels or having one of four great pirate emperors of the new world as your mentor doesn't count as cheats now a days. The list goes on and on Luffy has a ton of things going for him do u really think someone that is not Luffy has any chance of being pirate king ?

Every character gets plot devices to achieve the goals of the writer that just the way it is. When u get right down to it they are in a way cheats that allow any given character to have a plot path to the goals the writer have for their story.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:15 PM   #67
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

^first of all , those are not cheats
Secondly , give that guy a break. He said no spoilers here. so delete your post and Go discuss it in OP forum

Last edited by Pritha; 12-08-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:09 AM   #68
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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he doesn't ? guess having top brass of the marines looking out for you growing up
Here we go.

Where was Garp when Luffy was being beaten to death by spiked gloves at age 10 ? Where was Garp when he was nearly executed by Blue Jam ? Where was Garp when Luffy was nearly torn apart by a bear ? Where was Garp when Kizaru was kicking the living shit out of Luffy and his crew ? Was Garp engaging Akainu to give Luffy a chance to escape Marineford ?

The only time Garp helped Luffy was by getting out of his way when Luffy charged the scaffold to free Ace, he didn't lift a finger to help Luffy in any other occasion nor has Luffy ever used his family ties to get leverage in a situation.

Quote:
growing up with the pirate kings son
How is that a cheat ?

Ace didn't even like Luffy at first, he almost let him die twice, and he never watched over Luffy they had their own paths to carve. They ended up together as a result of Garp's decision to look after Ace as requested by Roger, and since he wanted them to be powerful Marines he left them in an environment where they would have to fend for themselves.

Quote:
your father being the the leader of the rebels
A father he doesn't know and never relied upon. Dragon saved him once, way back in Loguetown. Aside from that Luffy has never gotten any help from his father or the revolutionaries, they don't even operated in the same circles.

Quote:
having one of four great pirate emperors of the new world as your mentor doesn't count as cheats now a days.
If you are referring to Rayleigh: He is not an emperor, He didn't provide Luffy with anything but training during the TS the rest was up to Luffy and his crew. Being trained by someone famous can only get you so far, just look at how strong Law has become by surviving in the NW.

If you are talking about Shanks, HA. Shanks is a role model not a mentor, he saved Luffy as a child and that is it. In fact the purpose of him passing on the hat to Luffy was so Luffy would come to him once he became a great pirate, meaning he couldn't help him which he didn't.

Quote:
The list goes on and on Luffy has a ton of things going for him do u really think someone that is not Luffy has any chance of being pirate king ?
You're talking out of your ass now. Are we going to condemn all of fiction due to the protagonist always achieving the goal he/she set out to achieve in some way shape or form ?

What matters is how they get there.

Quote:
Every character gets plot devices to achieve the goals of the writer that just the way it is. When u get right down to it they are in a way cheats that allow any given character to have a plot path to the goals the writer have for their story.
How is that cheating ?

Are you new to story telling ? Of course there will always be a path to the end in any story.

Cheating is when some contrived Deus ex machina/plot device is introduced to bail people out of situations they shouldn't have been able to deal with. Nardo's Kyubi, Natsu's nakama power and Ichigo's hollow powers say hi.

When has Luffy ever gotten a sudden power up in a fight ?
When has Luffy ever used his family ties to get out trouble ?

If you're going to criticize at least form a decent argument, not based on your own BS perception.

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Old 12-09-2012, 05:24 AM   #69
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

My goodness, as i said one piece is interesting but come on.
you guys talk about plot no jusu in naruto? ive never seen any compared to the those in one piece;
How ca n usop take a 4 ton bat to the head by a BW member and still be alive to talk and throw smoke bomb, no matter how determined you are you should die, especially when he is meant to be a regular human.

Same goes for sanji and all of them, no matter the amount of attacks they take they never stay down, its ridiculous(case in point arlong park battle). the amount of attacks they take in battle is ridiculous and 3 or 4 good attacks to their opponent and they win.

And whats up with inanimate objects e.g a gun able to eat a devil fruit.

Whats up with the most ridiculous plot no jutsu ive ever seen or read. They were trying to get Alubarna on time suddenly a giant crab whick happens to be the fastest creature in th desert appears, they get to a river and kungfu moles conviniently appear finally the fastest group of desert ducks appear at the right time, come on son.
Luffy is stabbed and burried in sand crocodiles partner decides to help him and woopdidoo, what do we have? F-wan, fastest flying banana croc.

I dont care about naruo anymore, but your constant bashing it in comparism to it to one piece made me read one piece, and what i have to say is.

Never use one piece as benchmark, its not that great. Its fun though.
You can use manga/manhwa's like Shin Angyo Onshin, Swot, Akumetsu, beel etc as bench marks not this.

p.s A gun "eating" a fruit? SMH
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:41 AM   #70
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

Quote:
My goodness, as i said one piece is interesting but come on.
you guys talk about plot no jusu in naruto? ive never seen any compared to the those in one piece;
How ca n usop take a 4 ton bat to the head by a BW member and still be alive to talk and throw smoke bomb, no matter how determined you are you should die, especially when he is meant to be a regular human.
Oh boy, someone has gone full retard.

Are you seriously going to question durability in fiction ?
That is a staple in any battle manga.

Quote:
Same goes for sanji and all of them, no matter the amount of attacks they take they never stay down, its ridiculous(case in point arlong park battle). the amount of attacks they take in battle is ridiculous and 3 or 4 good attacks to their opponent and they win.
Full retard indeed.

Quote:
And whats up with inanimate objects e.g a gun able to eat a devil fruit.
You want me to spoil shit for you ? If not how about continuing to read the manga so you can find out how that is possible ?

Quote:
Whats up with the most ridiculous plot no jutsu ive ever seen or read. They were trying to get Alubarna on time suddenly a giant crab whick happens to be the fastest creature in th desert appears,
I'm sure the camel Chopper befriended several chapters before had nothing to do with that.

Quote:
they get to a river and kungfu moles conviniently appear finally the fastest group of desert ducks appear at the right time, come on son.
I'm sure the fact that Vivi sent Calue to the palace with a letter explaining the entire situation to the king had nothing to do with that.

Quote:
Luffy is stabbed and burried in sand crocodiles partner decides to help him and woopdidoo, what do we have? F-wan, fastest flying banana croc.
Considering the fact that she was ready to betray Croc at any moment is it surprising that she helped one of his enemies ? It was advantageous for her and it paid off later.

Quote:
I dont care about naruo anymore, but your constant bashing it in comparism to it to one piece made me read one piece, and what i have to say is.
Lol wut ?

The last time I even argued with someone about OP was with Veng, eons ago. What is this constant comparison you speak of ?

Quote:
Never use one piece as benchmark, its not that great. Its fun though.
You can use manga/manhwa's like Shin Angyo Onshin, Swot, Akumetsu, beel etc as bench marks not this.
I don't read any of those, nor do I give a shit about your taste in fiction. I'm defending OP against retarded criticism coming from Prez and now you, if you don't like it feel free to try and debate me.

Quote:
p.s A gun "eating" a fruit? SMH
I'm wondering if you actually read OP or just look at the pictures, your knowledge about it is lacking.

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Old 12-09-2012, 07:43 AM   #71
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

@dagoro. Just leave him be will u. U r just wasting ur time n energy here. And am pretty sure with that kind examples he is giving, u can be certain that ur arguments are not going to convince him. So just let it go.

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Old 12-09-2012, 08:51 AM   #72
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

Please move the discussion to the One Piece section, since it belongs there. However, I'll throw my two cents on the matter. (WARNING, SPOILERS AHEAD, under spoiler tag).

@prez: you're an idiot. Either you don't know what a cheat means or you think good ancestry automatically equals cheat. If it the latter, sorry to say but you need to distinguish the instances in order to say if ancestry is a cheat or not.

Let's take Naruto for example, since we're in its section. After the Child of Prophecy crap, you have Naruto with:
  • A lineage that granted him a wide pool of chakra so he could spam all the jutsu he wants
  • And the lineage also granted him a connection to RS
  • A failsafe set by Minato just in case he'd lose control to Kurama
  • A failsafe set by Kushina to help defeat Kurama
  • Kurama itself is a power up intentionally placed by Minato
  • And even if Kurama is taken away from him, Naruto won't die due to his lineage
  • You could argue that all his abilities are derived or only possible due to his ancestry (Fuuton can be argued, since it's an unknown)
And Luffy has from his ancestry:
  • The Will of D
  • Dragon saving him in Loguetown
Whoop-di-doo, am I right? Luffy could say he doesn't owe shit to his ancestors and he wouldn't be off the truth by much. His main powers, from the Gomu Gomu DF, are born from an accident.
Haki can be used by virtually anyone and combining Haki with DF is his doing. Garp not arresting him at the end of the CP9 saga isn't even a cheat, considering Aokiji could own the Straw Hats when he first met them and he didn't, even thought he had no relation with them whatsoever, meaning that Marines as a whole can let shit pass their radars if it doesn't fancy them.



Also, about that Yonkou bit, either you're talking about Shanks or Rayleigh and failing at it. Shanks only helped him when Luffy was a kid, after that he helped him with squat. Heck, in Marineford the only "good guy" Shanks helped was Coby that was about to be roflstomped by Akainu. And Rayleigh, who hasn't any ranking in the pirate world for that matter, indeed trained Luffy. As Jiraiya trained Naruto. As Urahara trained Ichigo, and so on, so on. A big name helping the main character isn't a cheat, it's a trope that falls under the main character's prerogative.


So please, do tell where the cheats are.

@ckraizitee: Only one of your objection has any merit considering you're still in the Baroque Works saga, and that's Lassou being a gun with DF powers. As you'll see later in the manga, two other inanimate objects also gain DF powers and it's revealed it's possible to acquire DF powers without eating the fruit (and there are people actively working on the case), so in truth Lassou, the gun, did not eat the Inu Inu Fruit, it simply acquired its powers by another unknown route.

First, you have to understand that Suspension of Disbelief is not the same for every piece of fiction. Comparing One Piece to Naruto again: Naruto is pretty much the real world plus chakra and Kishimoto tends to shorten the gap between (although he fails miserably in some cases); on the opposite hand, One Piece has major differences in how physics, chemistry and biology work and Oda tends to widen the gap between. The very Grand Line is impossible in a spherical world with our physics, being only theoretically possible in a toroid (donut-shaped) world, which we know the One Piece world isn't, Luffy being the same in his standard stance after stretching himself also is impossible in our biology. Trust me, I'm incredibly picky when it comes to what makes sense or not, but I can understand people getting beaten the shit out of them and still stand because One Piece already placed the high resistance under the umbrella of Suspension of Disbelief, something that Naruto hasn't.

Second, you're confusing plot convenience with Plot no Jutsu. Plot no Jutsu only applies when we know something should not happen and/or is missing a goddamn explanation, while plot convenience (where Plot no Jutsu is a subsection of it) applies when the plot needs to be carried on and an element is added to do so. One Piece does have its PnJ's, but I'll be damned if they even reach the count of 1 per saga, while Naruto has them by the metric ton. Yes, Oda could do with a lot less plot convenience, but at least he wraps it with an healthy dose of humor, while other writers play them straight like its a given.

Third, you don't seem to pay attention to the plot to say Ms All Sunday/Robin saving Luffy is a Plot no Jutsu. She was using Mr 0/Crocodile and decided to betray him for her own profit, how the hell did you miss that?
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:14 AM   #73
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

Naruto vs One Piece argument again? How did that start? One Piece art style sucks (opinion) while it also unnecessarily drags(opinion). Naruto's main protagonist sucks (opinion), has a weak story structure & character development (fact), while also brakes the rules of logic set by its own mangika(fact).

One Piece has better story structure & character development while Naruto USED to have better fights. I say used to because lately Naruto fights have been sucking with all this Godzilla crap. Overall One Piece is a more tolerable manga(I don't like OP BTW) when compared to Naruto if you can get passed the dragging arcs & unnecessary flashbacks(this relates to dragging but needed to be noted). Both manga are pretty much overrated though.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:37 AM   #74
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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Originally Posted by jericho Uzimaki View Post
I think Naruto has a plan. when he gets down there with Madara and Obito, they will do something that counters the entrance. After wards Naruto will do something that shocks both sides.

No IDEA what that would be, lol. but it just seem like where this is going.

overall i liked it, the cloud village ninja specialty is lightning attacks by the way, it's not implausible for 7 or 8 ninja to know laser circus,lol. It's Black Lightning that only one of them knows.

The Sarutobi clan is a welcome surprise, they are probably all bad ass in their own way. Far as where were they, they were never mentioned as being lost or extinct. Why did someone assume they were?

Konohamaru's Dad and Mom are obviously NOT ninja, heck he probably has a sister or brother,lol.

be a nice touch to see all the clans INSIDE Konoha display some jutsu. I mean they have every elemental base within it.

The Hatake clan would be a nice one if Kakashi wan't the LAST one.

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Old 12-09-2012, 11:40 AM   #75
NeoKakarott023
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

All I got to say is Luffy's on the front of a building in Japan for a movie release for SOME reason; whilst Naruto & Bleach authors/productions houses have decided on they're own that its time to move on, and its incredibly obvious in the incompetent holes that are blown into the stories that can't ever be patched, or its done so horribly one wishes they left the shit alone and just proceeded past it. They both GAVE AWAY they're followings, threw away fans like trash, and looked only to mass market for the money grab on the way out.

IMHO OP follows the mold of Dragonball to Dragonball Z, the author seemingly is very interested in the story, and spends time on specifics as if its one in a series of novels, whereas lots of plots are at best like a TV series with honorable mentions of the genesis of the plot.

I can understand why some don't like OP, I didn't used to, thats the beauty of manga, they're are so many available, one can dislike what the masses do and still have a good experience. My first tour was tardy, but one of the best rides I've had in years. They're aren't enough for us fans nowadays because we swallow down anywheres from 3 to some of us 10 mangas that we keep up with, and were basically greedy. Because of the lack of anything that can satify our apetites, we can dissect what we dislike and go to war amongst each other, with whats better.... like rappers. In this argument Dagoro is like and Old School Hip Hop Artist attempting to explain something to a New School Artitst. I agree with some of all that has said, even Veng, but nobodies gonna win, its always up to the individual's eyetest, everybody can have it and be correct.

Another note, though I'm not big on following a lot a rules, please stop posting out of Story unless generalizing, and please realize some haven't read/seen OP and they're are things called spoilers. A shit load has been spewed and thats not fair to those who are even still on the journey toward THAT STUFF IN THE STORY, so please take it to the appropiate section is all I ask. Dudes in here steered me toward OP and I truly appreciate they're efforts, so I'm more protective over it than Ble... not even worth finishing the name of it, or Naruto (merely hanging for Sasuke alone).
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Last edited by NeoKakarott023; 12-09-2012 at 11:45 AM.
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