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Old 12-09-2012, 10:23 PM   #91
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
You question what the underlying aspects of that scene are yet you focus on the superficial. And you have the gall to call me a moron lol, hilarity galore.
Underlying aspects of that scene... should I already start laughing? Or that part comes later?

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Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
If you actually read the dialog instead of flipping through the pictures you might noticed the elements at play during that chapter.
Should this insult my reading comprehension? Because I sure as fuck didn't find something life changing in a kid's manga. Maybe I am just not intelligent enough for this genius piece of writing?

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Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
Zoro gave a superb display of loyalty to Luffy, he was willing to sacrifice a dream he carried for himself and his childhood friend, a dream he swore he would complete, that shows the level of respect he carries for Luffy. He didn't get off light from those injuries either, he was feeling the damage during the events of SA which took place days later. That was carried over to him kneeling before Mihawk and begging for training, Mihawk even comments on how Zoro is not the type to put his pride aside so easily, and he must have found something greater than his own ambitions to kiss the ground like that.
Yeah, he wanted to sacrifice himself. That was awesome. He didn't die. Uh, what sacrifice? WHAT A THEME!!

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Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
His actions also had an impact on Kuma who agreed to Zoro's conditions out of respect, and just in case you missed it Honor is a big thing in OP, lots of characters take it seriously, and it added to the mystery that is Kuma. He obviously spared the SHs for a reason which has yet to be revealed.
Yeah, random Shicibukai who needs to kill them all decides to kill one of them (and he survives). It would have been better if Kuma was like : hey bros, you are great guys, I'll let you all live. Not that sacrifice which isn't really a sacrifice shit.

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Now, to address the thing you are fixating on like a dumbass. Did you forget the time Zoro took a slash from Mihawk and went on without proper medical care for days ? How about the time he took a chainsaw like attack across his abdomen and lived ?
...are you trying to defend it like that? Because all those scenes were MORONIC AS FUCK. It's the reason people say no one dies in OP.

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He was established as an endurance beast at his very first appearance in the manga by going days without eating anything, so the fact that you find him surviving taking Luffy's pain odd/stupid is pretty retarded since canon backs it up.
Do you even realize what you are writing? It's a fucking parody and a kid's manga. How can you take such idiotic things like some life lessons?

It's fucking simple, let me draw it for you : a guy needs to die. Another guy steps in and is like : hey, let me die instead! He survives the death penalty (LOL). From all that, you get all emotional how he is actually an awesome friend and how he is a beast for surviving it! What the fuck, now comes the part where I really laugh.

Do you realize that he survived because the plot was very weak? Do you know what could have been a better friendship theme? IF HE ACTUALLY DIED. That brings impact to the reader, dunno if you realize what that means though because you are obviously a man-child.

Jesus Christ what a nerd.

Last edited by Shrike; 12-09-2012 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:43 PM   #92
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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Underlying aspects of that scene... should I already start laughing? Or that part comes later?
Masking your stupidity with a fail attempt at wit, classic "Shit, I don't have an argument" move.

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Should this insult my reading comprehension? Because I sure as fuck didn't find something life changing in a kid's manga. Maybe I am just not intelligent enough for this genius piece of writing?
Or you are just an obtuse bitch, one or the other.

Quote:
Yeah, he wanted to sacrifice himself. That was awesome. He didn't die. Uh, what sacrifice? WHAT A THEME!!
He survived due to sheer endurance and willpower, he was ready to die should it come to pass. But hey, continue with your one track BS, that will get you somewhere.

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Yeah, random Shicibukai
Yeah, the guy that arrived at Marijoa several chapters ago and was chilling there ended up being the one to go. What randomness indeed.

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who needs to kill them all decides to kill one of them (and he survives).
Again, blatant dismissal of all the elements of that scene. Kuma decided to torture Zoro and leaving the overwhelming stacked damage to finish him off. But Zoro, being the stubborn person that he is refused to go down, simple as that.

Quote:
It would have been better if Kuma was like : hey bros, you are great guys, I'll let you all live. Not that sacrifice which isn't really a sacrifice shit.
How imaginative.

Quote:
...are you trying to defend it? Because all those scenes were MORONIC AS FUCK. It's the reason people say no one dies in OP.
That is not the issue. You framed this as some BS occurrence, which it isn't since it's backed by canon.

Quote:
Do you even realize what you are writing? It's a fucking parody and a kid's manga. How can you take such idiotic things like some life lessons?
Do you realize that he survived because the plot was very weak? Do you know what could have been a better friendship theme? IF HE ACTUALLY DIED. That brings impact to the reader, dunno if you realize what that means though because you are obviously a man-child.

Jesus Christ what a nerd.
Pointless ad hominem, I think were done here.

Last edited by Dagoro; 12-09-2012 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:51 PM   #93
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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Do you realize that he survived because the plot was very weak? Do you know what could have been a better friendship theme? IF HE ACTUALLY DIED.
This .
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:57 PM   #94
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
Again, blatant dismissal of all the elements of that scene. Kuma decided to torture Zoro and leaving the overwhelming stacked damage finish him off. But Zoro, being the stubborn person that he is refused to go down, simple as that.
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How imaginative.
Check those two quotes now as see what you wrote. If everybody, and I do mean everybody, don't laugh at that shit, then I dunno. A hint: it's fucking hilarious dude.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:59 PM   #95
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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Check those two quotes now as see what you wrote. If everybody, and I do mean everybody, don't laugh at that shit, then I dunno. A hint: it's fucking hilarious dude.
Appealing to popularity ? That is a new low.

Also, lol at your transparent ass omitting my entire argument and trying to pass a snippet as everything I said.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:06 PM   #96
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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I pretty much agree with you Shrike. Togashi can write a pretty damn good story. My only real problem with him, is when he explains every little aspect of the story, instead of trying to let the reader figure it out for himself. If you've read the chapters where Gon and Killua are learning how to use Nen from Wing (and later from Biscuit), then you know what I'm talking about. Goddamn paragraphs of text per page.

I can forgive the artwork though. Dude has chronic back pains to the point he can't sit down for more then 30 minutes without it becoming unbearable, and he sometimes has muscles spasms. If he could just hire an artist and just be responsible for writing the story, and coming up with the character designs, I think it would make things much smoother for everyone.

Togashi can create (likeable) characters like a boss, and his storyline hooks many fans despite the artwork. I've been waiting at least 8 months for him to come back. Dude left the story hanging at one of the best parts, like someone else I know....ahem.
Yeah, I even forgot about his back pains. What a waste, the dude is a beast. His characters are really awesome.

And I know dude, I left it hanging where I should have just continued, but more serious work waited for me. Sucks dicks, I know. Too bad too, because there was supposed to be some huge war later on which should have been the peak of epic.

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So Thriller Bark gets mentioned as a bad arc (which it is, goddamn Moria and all the clunky scenes around the zombies) and no mention of the Foxy Pirates arc? That was pretty much the "the fuck am I reading?" moment of One Piece.

But I concur that One Piece is very overrated. Sure it's a good read for a Shounen manga, but fantards like to pretend its flawless when it has several flaws that even Oda acknowledges and handwaves them in the SBS bits. The art is really an acquired taste thing that can break or make the manga for people (reminds me of FF IX which many people refused to play due to the cartoonish style), but, like Shrike said, it's genius in its own merit, since it allows for very interesting designs a more realistic art would probably not allow.
Yeah man, Silver Foxy was the worst arc in any manga I have ever read. I dunno how I even got through that bullshit. Seriously, if I was reading chapter a week, I would have stopped reading for sure.

And definitely agree with OP tards. I mean it's a funny manga and has awesome and epic moments, but come the fuck on.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:07 PM   #97
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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Appealing to popularity ? That is a new low.

Also, lol at your transparent ass omitting my entire argument and trying to pass a snippet as everything I said.
What argument? The thing I quoted was basically the core of the argument. Can't you comprehend it? I called bullshit of Zoro surviving. You said he was tough. End of the argument.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:16 PM   #98
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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What argument? The thing I quoted was basically the core of the argument. Can't you comprehend it? I called bullshit of Zoro surviving. You said he was tough. End of the argument.
Stooping to ad nauseum now huh ?

I addressed all the aspects of that scene, but hey stick with your tunnel vision on the matter.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:21 PM   #99
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

Those aspects are retarded, as I said. There is no aspect for bullshit other than bullshit. See what Vengeance quoted. It all comes down to that. Don't need to repeat myself.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention one more thing I hate in OP - it has THE most annoying fodder ever. No manga has their fodder being such mongoloids as OP does. I hate panels with them saying anything, but it sadly isn't quite rare.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:23 PM   #100
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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Those aspects are retarded, as I said. There is no aspect for bullshit other than bullshit. See what Vengeance quoted. It all comes down to that. Don't need to repeat myself.
Obtuse bitch it is.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:08 AM   #101
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

Oh for fuck's sake, Dagoro, are you really not getting what Shrike is saying?!

I talked about how One Piece as few PnJ as probably less than one per saga, Zoro surviving Kuma's transference of pain was one of them. Don't get me wrong, the scene by itself is good and Zoro going to Mihawk is also a good move, the result of the scene is what severely downgrades its value. Fake sacrifices are cheap in my book (unless they're part of a gag) and Zoro shouldn't have survived that transference.

Oda would make it better if it happened in late New World in order to get Mihawk's training and going through the time skip. That way it would have a bigger emotional impact, as he'd be so close to his/the crew's dream but dying before he could reach it. So if Kuma just let the Straw Hats go just because, of course it'd be anticlimactic, but it'd pay off much more in the future.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:19 AM   #102
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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Oh for fuck's sake, Dagoro, are you really not getting what Shrike is saying?!
Does it look like I didn't get what he was saying ?

I'm just pointing how retarded his reasoning was. A oversimplification of the scene coupled with his dismissal of it as if it was an implausibility.

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Fake sacrifices are cheap in my book (unless they're part of a gag) and Zoro shouldn't have survived that transference.
Really ? You too ?
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:54 AM   #103
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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I'm just pointing how retarded his reasoning was. A oversimplification of the scene coupled with his dismissal of it as if it was an implausibility.
It's not an oversimplification of the scene, it's rather a dissection of it from an objective point of view. If you notice, you're rationalizing a scene with arguments that aren't really that relevant (like Zoro being stubborn). It may seem cold and crude, but the truth is Oda lured the reader with a sacrifice and didn't deliver.

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Really ? You too ?
Yes, why do you ask? When it comes to character's death or literary lure to it, I'm on the side of letting them die, no matter how big the name or how it'd good to have them still alive. Of course the exception, as I said before, is when it's used for gag purposes, like Bon Kurei and his "Okamas don't die!" exclamation. How would you feel if those who died in Marineford would get the scenes they had but later they'd be like "lol, fooled ya, we're still alive!"? That's why I hope Sabo doesn't appear alive anytime soon, since it would strip his flashback of its emotional impact.

Yes, it'd be a bummer to not have Zoro around, but the scene could be used much later in the manga and just slap the reader with raw emotion instead of being a pretty scene that delivered too little.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:11 AM   #104
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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It's not an oversimplification of the scene, it's rather a dissection of it from an objective point of view.
A shitty attempt at one. He is clearly dismissing all the set up and elements at play here which I won't go into again.

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you're rationalizing a scene with arguments that aren't really that relevant (like Zoro being stubborn).
Really ? You too ?

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It may seem cold and crude, but the truth is Oda lured the reader with a sacrifice and didn't deliver.
Sigh...

Quote:
Yes, why do you ask? When it comes to character's death or literary lure to it, I'm on the side of letting them die, no matter how big the name or how it'd good to have them still alive. Of course the exception, as I said before, is when it's used for gag purposes, like Bon Kurei and his "Okamas don't die!" exclamation.
Personal opinion, skipping that.

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How would you feel if those who died in Marineford would get the scenes they had but later they'd be like "lol, fooled ya, we're still alive!"?
Apples and oranges.

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That's why I hope Sabo doesn't appear alive anytime soon, since it would strip his flashback of its emotional impact.
Already confirmed dead by Oda.

Quote:
Yes, it'd be a bummer to not have Zoro around, but the scene could be used much later in the manga and just slap the reader with raw emotion instead of being a pretty scene that delivered too little.
No offense but you are looking at it in the same manner that Shrike did.

" Zoro no die, wut ? LOL !!! "

I won't repeat what that scene was meant to accomplish again, you can go back and read if you want. It also baffles me that you'd rather have a cut and dry character than what we got with Kuma.

With that I'm done with this topic.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:33 AM   #105
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

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Does it look like I didn't get what he was saying ?

I'm just pointing how retarded his reasoning was. A oversimplification of the scene coupled with his dismissal of it as if it was an implausibility.
Oversimplification? You are glorifying an event that had little to no value from a reader's point of view (unless the reader is a huge man child who is a sucker for cheesy friendship scenes). It was a waste of panels and manga space. Why? Because it didn't deliver the point.

Let me explain it to you - if a writer has a point which he wants the reader to see, there is a right and a wrong way to do it. In this case, if the theme was friendship, it did deliver. A cheesy thing of a theme that keeps plaguing many manga. If the theme was Zoro's sacrifice, it failed miserably. If the theme was how fucking tough this Zoro guy is, it delivered, but that also makes the writing retarded.

Edit : I am clearly dismissing all the elements of play? I actually smiled irl. I mean, seriously, how can't these people realize such an awesome writing in a kid's manga, they must be really stupid!! I mean, IT'S A FUCKING SENSATION to read that part. Made me cry myself to sleep.

Go play with your lego bricks now.

Last edited by Shrike; 12-10-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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