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Old 01-21-2013, 06:47 AM   #91
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Re: Naruto 616

I really don't need to jump any further into this discussion, as I am not debating just throwing in my two cents.. As you say in some regard yes Oda does not betray the power level parameters...but then again yes he does....So are you saying that Kizaru who is on level with Minato in terms of speed..but in terms of raw power he could and would destroy the SH's single handily. Is this to say the power levels are balanced or within reach? Luffy who's match with CC lasted what about three minutes? Then he blasted dude half way across the island? Or Law when he cut the mountain tops? We are at best now getting out of hand battles within Naruto. Wood Dragon, Juubi, Kurama, Hachibi blasts, Ultimate Susanoo..and freaking Particle Blasts....Madara's boast that if he and Hashi was there they would have remap the terrain....these are the outrageous moments within Naruto...Even Kakuza after getting impaled with Naruto's RS got slapped into a crater...(pretty understandable) but with OP it goes just a bit beyond comprehensible. Yeah Madara is flawed who would disagree? He is hella flawed...though not as flawed as Aizen who showed very little worry....Madara has already almost been defeated or at least sealed numerous times. Fact is when it comes to battle results...Naruto's fights are believable...yeah they can be predicted but that is because of real and true possibilities. With OP you can never really predict it because its so off the wall. Not that, that is a bad thing...its just their difference....Naruto to me has more of a realistic nature..

EDIT: yea I am not debating you as I said...I am giving my personal assessment of both mangas..
and yeah terrible argument if I was trying to debate. Couldn't focus on responding to your post as I was at work. So now I will touch on your reply.

My question is can Luffy win vs Kizaru in a one on one battle?.. You say that there isn't a huge power difference.....so is this why an entire generation damn near (rookies) are joining forces to take down the top brass..If it could be done solo Law would never had to team up with Luffy.. THus yeah there is a huge power difference. OP is a manga that decides the winner based on who has the greater DF/Haki. Not real skill but power.

The weakest were Moria, Jimbei and Boa Hancock, Kuma amongst the Shichibukai ...other than that I don't see any lowly pirate stepping to the others one on one.. OP is a manga that revolves around teamwork. Yes individual progress takes place but foes are usually against someone who has contrasting abilities. So I will ask you again, are the power levels within OP balanced? Can Luffy really handle Akainu or KiZaru? Will his his current power level allow him that stretch? Yeah Naruto fought Pain..seven individuals but sense was made of it. Not only that. Naruto really thinks and solves his problems. He has grown smarter and the fight against Pain was not a measure of power but more of tactic and strategy.

What I was referring to in regard to CC and Luffy's fight...one would expect a climatic fight...but it was grossly one sided and ended in a shocking smack all the way across the island damn near... What I am saying is its an area of disbelief. The expectations in OP are high due to the writing and outrageous action. As I said though its something non realistic. Come on now you're trolling if you yourself don't see OP as being over the top. Yeah OP is set to be an overwhelming manga in comparison to most. The action is just so fast paced and glorified.

Well you really said it all for me...In Naruto part one the most he did was transform into Chief Toad. After time skip biggest thing to date has been his transformation into the Kyuubi. The fights you mentioned within Naruto I mostly have zero issues with. Sasuke vs Deidara? Lightning vs Earth style? In which Lightning wins? Naruto vs Oro had to be the best and one of the most intense fights to date. Though in regard to the character I still didn't have an issue with it. As it something I woud expect. Idk as I said before....Naruto just has more of a realistic feel to me...

Last edited by apacolypz; 01-21-2013 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:00 AM   #92
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Re: Naruto 616

Quote:
So are you saying that Kizaru who is on level with Minato in terms of speed..but in terms of raw power he could and would destroy the SH's single handily.
What exactly is wrong with that ?

Aokiji took them all on and beat them effortlessly, and the Admirals are all on the same level more or less.

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Is this to say the power levels are balanced or within reach?
...huh ?

Make sense please.

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Luffy who's match with CC lasted what about three minutes? Then he blasted dude half way across the island? Or Law when he cut the mountain tops?
What exactly are you insinuating here ? That the power jump after 2 years of training doesn't make sense ?

Luffy was pushing apart buildings, lifting hills and other crazy shit before the TS. His progress after training with freaking Rayleigh makes perfect sense, unlike Nardo's results after training with Jiraya.

We never saw Law fight seriously in part 1, but since he was among the top 5 supernova his growth makes sense after 2 years of NW time and Shichibukai fuckery.

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We are at best now getting out of hand battles within Naruto.
......Hahahahahahahaha!!!!

Pt1: Orochimaru vs Hiruzen, Sanin 3 way battle, Gamabunta vs Shukaku, Chouji vs that other fat guy.

Pt2: Gaara vs Deidara, Kn4 vs Oro, Deidara vs Sasuke, Jiraya vs 6poP, Nardo vs Pain, and the list goes on.

Your argument doesn't make a lick of sense. Over the top abilities are not detrimental to a series as long as they stay within the rules the author set, which Op does.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:27 PM   #93
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Re: Naruto 616

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
It was established at skypiea that the limbs she spawns are limited by her natural strength, and again at TB. So, like the fag that wondered in here complaining about shit, you don't really know what you're talking about.
Really? So she can break Moria's neck and restrain Oars, but she can't break the neck of others who are mostly vulnerable to such attacks less they are a logia, as I already said? Good thinking. It's pretty stupid how Oda is handling her.

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Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
I will concede that Oda has yet to explain Asura, but you're wrong about those being physical extra limbs. Asura so far has never been used to parry another swordsman, it is only a finishing move, meaning it could be an illusion as a result of Zoro's killer intent.
What's the point of it if it's just killer intent? It seems quite obvious that those are real limbs.

And also, most of those Naruto battles you mentioned up there didn't go out of control at all. Whereas in OP you can expect anything since Oda can do what he wants. Like make Law cut Vergo in one move and cut the mountain, but hey, it's all under control there.

Last edited by Shrike; 01-21-2013 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:50 PM   #94
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Re: Naruto 616

Quote:
Really? So she can break Moria's neck and restrain Oars, but she can't break the neck of others who are mostly vulnerable to such attacks less they are a logia, as I already said? Good thinking. It's pretty stupid how Oda is handling her.
You are one stupid motherfucker.

She made 1000 arms to restrain Oars, and quatro mano uses dozens of limbs to make bigger versions of her arms. Given the fact that was able to swing Enel's fat commander with a few arms those feats were well within range of what she should be capable of doing back then. As for why she doesn't just snap everyone's neck one should consider the strength and speed of the opponent since she is largely stationary when she fights, but you can't do that since you are such a moron.

As for her current abilities how about waiting for her to have a proper fight ?

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What's the point of it if it's just killer intent? It seems quite obvious that those are real limbs.
Cough up some scans of them acting as real limbs, such as parring an opponent, then well talk.

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And also, most of those Naruto battles you mentioned up there didn't go out of control at all.
Out of control ? Wtf are you talking about ?

We were discussing over the top abilities. All of those fights involved some land leveling tech, so bitching about it in OP is hypocritical.

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Whereas in OP you can expect anything since Oda can do what he wants.
Like every mangaka out there.

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Like make Law cut Vergo in one move and cut the mountain, but hey, it's all under control there.
Luffy comes back from his 2 years of training capable of OHKOing the kraken under 3km of water and nearly destroying a island sized shit that can crash into rock formations without taking a scratch, while injured.

Considering that Law had 2 years of NW, became powerful enough to be invited into the Shichibukai, and was hyped as one of the top 5 SN his feat at PH, which was most likely a high end feat, not a casual one, makes sense.

Funny how you fail to understand these things, this is a kid's manga after all.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:18 PM   #95
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Re: Naruto 616

Quote:
My question is can Luffy win vs Kizaru in a one on one battle?.. You say that there isn't a huge power difference....
Among the top tiers.

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.so is this why an entire generation damn near (rookies) are joining forces to take down the top brass.
You contradicted yourself, moron.

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OP is a manga that decides the winner based on who has the greater DF/Haki. Not real skill but power.
DF and Haki prowess depend on training to hone the character's skills. Seriously, can you say anything coherent, at all ?

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The weakest were Moria, Jimbei and Boa Hancock, Kuma amongst the Shichibukai
Kuma, Hancock and Boa among the weakest ?

Lol, ok kid.

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other than that I don't see any lowly pirate stepping to the others one on one.
*Le facepalm*

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OP is a manga that revolves around teamwork. Yes individual progress takes place but foes are usually against someone who has contrasting abilities.
Yes, in order to engage a crew of enemies on your general level you would need a team to get it done.

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So I will ask you again, are the power levels within OP balanced?
You are brain dead. I suggest you read the MF war over.

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Can Luffy really handle Akainu or KiZaru? Will his his current power level allow him that stretch?
............wow. You have no idea what TOP TIER means do ya ?

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Yeah Naruto fought Pain..seven individuals but sense was made of it. Not only that. Naruto really thinks and solves his problems. He has grown smarter and the fight against Pain was not a measure of power but more of tactic and strategy.


So losing to Pain, and having to rely on the Kyubi to bail his ass out by dropping mountain popping beams of death is not about power ?

Heavens, I've seen children make more sense than you.

Quote:
Well you really said it all for me...In Naruto part one the most he did was transform into Chief Toad. After time skip biggest thing to date has been his transformation into the Kyuubi. The fights you mentioned within Naruto I mostly have zero issues with. Sasuke vs Deidara? Lightning vs Earth style? In which Lightning wins? Naruto vs Oro had to be the best and one of the most intense fights to date.
You criticized OP fights for being over the top. All the fights I mentioned in Naruto were over the top. KN4 Naruto leveled an entire forest with a bijuu bomb, Deidara's attacks were basically mini nukes and his last attack were an actual nuke. Pain ripped a few mountains off the ground with CT, and flatten Konoha like a pancake. How is that not over the top ?

Last edited by Dagoro; 01-21-2013 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:19 AM   #96
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Re: Naruto 616

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Oh noes, how dare the author provide backstory to flesh out characters and the plot concerning them when it's relevant?! Gee, he should know by now nobody has the patience for poignant information that makes the resolve of the tension that much stronger!

I'll give you that Oda does exaggerate in his flashbacks and could cut them a little shorter, but you're equivocated if you think switching from tension to backstory is bad pacing. It's not, it's simply a switch from conflict to exposition.

Truly bad pacing is when the author bounces between extremes, like spending an entire arc where the characters just spend their time talking about their dreams and eating pastry and then switch to another arc which is just drama upon conflict upon drama. And no, I'm not making that up, there are actually works of fiction with that kind of pacing, so while One Piece pacing is indeed slow, it's balanced. Now that you get whiplash from the switches is another thing, but Oda does make up for it for making the flashbacks enhance the current situation.

@ the rest of your post: of course people have different opinions. I simply can't tolerate Bleach when people here do still. But we get it, you are not into One Piece and I respect that, but to repeatedly jump into its discussion with the intentionally malformed arguments you use everytime is, as I said, getting old. I know you know better and it disappoints me you still do that.



@apocalypz: I think Kishi simply doesn't know what the fuck to do with Naruto (the character) anymore. I've already ranted about the 180ยบ turn of characterization on Naruto from the hardworking underdog to the Super Messiah figure, but now vs Obito the characterization is just mind-boggling. It's like he was a tennis ball being bounced from the altruistic messiah to the guy who depends on everyone else to get shit done. Even worse, I don't know what his stance on peace/death of peers is anymore because Kishi just dances around on the issue every chapter with awfully crammed-in phrases that it doesn't give the reader a clear perception of what Naruto stands for that isn't downright changed in the next chapter.

And to add insult to the injury, we know he can be consistent in characterization while progressing the characters in this battle, being both Obito and Hinata examples of such, so why can't he do the same to the damn protagonist?!
Well to be honest, its fair. He screwed over Sasuke to the point where Sasuke even says in the manga, 'Let me go ask others the truth', because with the flagrant personality shifts, he dosen't even know whom he is supposed to be, or what he supports, belivies in, or lives for anymore. The freaking spoonful of ink had to say it himself. A freaking shame. And I'm not a dummy, I understand that characters can evolve, or change. The art dosen't know its own goals, for a character thats been around since manga chapter 4?
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:40 AM   #97
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Re: Naruto 616

from a topic of naruto 616 to arguments to 2 very different mangas? im new and all but is this argument posted between 2 threads or is this just ppl coming to naruto JUST to argue the differences between the 2. oh and ya i didnt care to find the origin of why this came up but it makes no difference right?

were all nerds and all but really? this is taking things a lil too far....its like a damn cult or something. u insult a favorite manga of someone and they have to defend it like theyre whole existance is on the line..geesh
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