jekyl_hyde

Piggybacking on what Num said, I'm hoping and praying that we finally get a decent flashback of the Madara/Hashi battle from edo-Hashi.

NeoKakarott023

I'm partial to Uchiha's, from they're inception, they never got a decent shot IMHO. Thats not saying they were the only ones, Kimmamaro's crew, and even Kushina's and others got wiped out, but between Madara, Harashirma, Tobirama, and the make up of the Uchiha brain, they were fucked at birth, all of them. To Tobirama, anything that wasn't Senju, or bowing to them was a problem seemingly.

__________________
Hit me tha right way, I gots no problem reppin' ya, and look for nothing in return. Just letting Ya know

You have dishonored my Family, and a Shaolin Temple...

許 Yurusenai 許
Unforgivable

Dagoro

The Uchiha's didn't need to be massacred. Just passing some celexa around and a few counseling sessions would have done wonders.

Oh, and amateratsu is overrated as hell. That shit fluctuates as the plot demands, at times failing to burn leaves off a tree. I don't see it being effective against a big wall of water from Tobimara.

Yeah, I started it bros.

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Numinous

I agree, but it's funny that, as of late, the manga only gets above decent in (most) flashbacks.

Yeah, that's why I find boring the versus debates on current characters. The two villains left and the second most important character have the Sharingan and it's so broken with all its I WIN jutsu that it becomes dull to even argue any fight involving an Uchiha, may the Uchiha win or not.

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NeoKakarott023

Understood with respect, I'm just the opposite of Tobirama, the only Senju that was nearly worth a half a damn in my book was Tsunade, and the Broad could barely fight. She was the main brain in the family, outside of battle tactics IMHO, the other 2 had leadership up the ying yang, but seemingly didn't give much of a damn about.... THE PEOPLE underneath their rule. At least one of them, whom pushed his hateful opinion toward others. It grew like a tall tree.

Dag, luv you like a brother but if you think I'm gonna let that Tobirama Waterfall Tech shit fly, you're crazy.
Yes, Amaretsu has been up and down, but like KYF states, Tobirama has absolutely zero defense against it, water means shit. The only thing that has actually extinguished it before has been Gaara's Sand... yes supreme bullshit to keep him in he clouds of power with heavyweights where he shouldn't be anymore.

Now heres Tobirama's stats:


Nature Type
Water Release

Jutsu
Bringer-of-Darkness Technique
Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation
Water Release: Gunshot
Water Release: Water Colliding Wave (Anime only)
Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique
Water Release: Water Encampment Wall
Water Release: Water Trumpet

Tobirama was undoubtedly an immensely powerful shinobi and was hailed as one of the most powerful shinobi of his era. During his lifetime, Tobirama created the Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation technique; however, never mastered it himself, though he did use it enough to be recognised by others for it. By simply touching the ground with his index finger, he could detect the presence and number of enemy shinobi, and according to Minato Namikaze, Tobirama was highly skilled in Space–Time Ninjutsu. Tobirama was also shown to have great physical prowess and a considerable amount of skill in the area of taijutsu, as well as good teamwork with his elder brother, Hashirama Senju. It was said that he wielded the Sword of the Thunder God, a blade with electrical abilities, and was said to have mastered its use despite the blade's lethal nature.

Tobirama was primarily known for his mastery of Water Release. He could perform powerful water-style techniques in areas that lacked bodies of water by creating his own water out of thin air or producing it from his mouth, and perform some of the most complex water-style techniques, such as the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, with a single hand seal. This amongst other reasons is why he is revered as the greatest known Water Release manipulator in the series.

In the anime, it is also shown that he can use the Water Release: Water Colliding Wave to attack and cover a large area with water. In areas with water, he can move underwater and stay for a considerable amount of time. Underwater, he can use jets of water to bring his target to him and after restrain them for trying to drown them or launch powerful missiles of water which can even pierce rocks. Also, it was shown that he was also a powerful genjutsu user, able to shroud the area in darkness that even the Third Hokage couldn't dispel.

Not ment to break rules or offend, but be fair to Tobirama Fans, to show true abilities created for the characters.

Okay, no walk in the park, but improved Sasuke...


Nature Type:
Blaze Release
Fire Release
Lightning Release

Jutsu
Amaterasu
Binding Snake Glare Spell
Blaze Release Magatama (Manga only)
Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi
Body Flame Technique
Body Shedding
Chidori
Chidori Current
Chidori Senbon
Chidori Sharp Spear
Cursed Seal of Heaven
Demonic Illusion: Shackling Stakes Technique
Evil Releasing Method (Manga only)
Fire Release: Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Genjutsu: Sharingan
Hidden Shadow Snake Hands
Iaidō
Kirin
Lion Combo
Manipulated Shuriken Technique
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades
Naka Shrine Pass Technique (Manga only)
Pachinko Technique (Anime only)
Peregrine Falcon Drop (Anime only)
Sexy Technique
Shadow Shuriken Technique
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Shield of Black Flames
Strong Fist
Summoning Technique (Hawks, Snakes)
Summoning: Lightning Flash Blade Creation
Susanoo
Sword of Kusanagi: Chidori Katana
Tsukuyomi

Sasuke's already impressive speed saw a huge leap, able to evade attacks from the extremely fast Killer B and A, though he credited the evasion to his Sharingan reading the linear moves. He also greatly increased his hand speed, able to do many hand seals in a blur and launch an enormous amount of weapons just as quickly, as seen during his fight with Itachi. His speed and proficiency with the Body Flicker Technique have also grown considerably, able to easily cut his opponents down without them noticing. When first facing Team Kakashi in Part II, he showed himself able to cover wide gaps in the blink of an eye, giving his former allies no time to react.

Sasuke has shown a high level of stamina and endurance; at the Five Kage Summit, he was able to endure a consistent string of battles against the samurai, two Kage and their bodyguards before finally collapsing from exhaustion. In a near-blind, battered, and visibly exhausted state from his latter fight with Danzō and overusing the Mangekyō Sharingan, he still had enough stamina to fight against Kakashi, restrain and disarm Sakura and later match Naruto's Rasengan with his Chidori. His raw strength has also become noticeably greater, being able to lift Sakura by her throat into the air with a single hand even while exhausted. His overall improvements were so great that Sakura even suspected that he had been given drugs to improve his physical capabilities.

No walk in the park, but Sasuke would get em in my book, its up to interpretation though.

__________________
Hit me tha right way, I gots no problem reppin' ya, and look for nothing in return. Just letting Ya know

You have dishonored my Family, and a Shaolin Temple...

許 Yurusenai 許
Unforgivable

Myth

Lol @ the sasuke dik riders easy kids ur fav butt buddy has been insignificant since after he was given a victory by itachi in their fight. Morons will be morons though so please go on.

I wonder what sasuke will ask minato.

-SassyLady-

Naruto's hand in marriage.

__________________

“Never forget who you are, for surely the world won’t. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.”
-George R.R. Martin (A Game of Thrones)

NeoKakarott023

You make a point, but at what point has Tobirama done ANYTHING to make someone want to ride his? Name the feat. And not the water out of the mouth shit, that was also done by Kisame, not impressed here. How about Edo Tensei.... thats right he never finished it himself, and its been upgraded twice since he tinkered with it. This isn't to hate on the Dude, but beyond going to die, and passing the village on to kids, sorry not moved. He lost to 20 shinobi, really???? Must've been superbadass Cloud Shinobi right, can't fix that wacked assed death. A big mouth that was overall.... soft. Is Sasuke the hardest thing out, nah, but he's had more feats at this point to my knowledge, you know, the Child?

__________________
Hit me tha right way, I gots no problem reppin' ya, and look for nothing in return. Just letting Ya know

You have dishonored my Family, and a Shaolin Temple...

許 Yurusenai 許
Unforgivable

jericho Uzimaki

I'm sorry to get in this.


But...every Kage standing there is a LEGEND. They all but one is known to have fought Uchiha before. Noone is scared if one Ichiha kid with MS. These guys are of a high calibre.
True they are not up on current events BUT every powerful ninja of "today" is compared to these guys in some way.

Hashi= most powerful ninja ever! Madara is using some of his jutsu to destry hundreds of ninja in the war.
Tobirama=unmatched Time/Space jutsu, huge water jutsu with NO water around.
Hurizen=taught by BOTH brothers, teacher of the Sanin.
Minato= genius who defeated "Tobi" by figuring out his jutsu after moments if meeting. Only reason he died, is to protect Naruto and seal the fox. Otherwise he would still be the current Hokage!

Besides Sasuke has not trained with anything extensivly, far as MS. Except black flames he can summon and un summon them. He has that lack flame Susanoo though. But...Time Space jutsu trumphs Sasuke. He couldnt vn keep up with Raikage.

Tobirama would not have executed the Uchiha. Then harvested some of their eyes. At most he would have taken out the leaders of the coup, to aet an example. Thats what i think.

__________________




Gamble

Joshua the Rogue

Transformers:Generations
For NaruHina fans

First Orange knuckle head ninja

The Question

Dagoro

Really ?

Can you post a scan showing Sasuke vaporizing a large amount of water with Amateratsu ?

Do I really need to post a scan to remind how slowly that shit burns ?

__________________

kael03

A couple things. First, when did I ever put Oro in the equation? I was talking straight up Sasuke vs Edo Tobirama. I don't care if you don't think he has nothing to go with, Tobirama is immortal with an unending supply of chakra (that is my second point). Sasuke is mortal, with mortal limitations. He wouldn't stand a chance based on endurance, which is what the match would turn into.

This is wrong for a couple reasons. First is the assumption that it was because of Amaterasu that Nagato wasn't moving. Do remember that, even as an Edo, he had to be carried by either Kakuzu or Itachi. It wasn't until Kabuto completely shut down his personality that he was able to fight back. Even then he required his animal summons to move. Second, where did you read that he tried to use HG realm to seal/absorb it? Post a link because I just looked at it and didn't see anything like that. He was on "friend or foe" mode for attacks, and Itachi still registered as a "friend" since Kabuto hadn't fully realized what happened until after Amaterasu was used.

NeoKakarott023

Nah, but i've seen Amaretsu produced a lot quicker than Kisame/Tobirama can make a lake to 'help' them. Additionally, though Tobirama has Lighteneing abilities dosen't make him oblibvious to the multiple Lightening Jutsu, that Sasuke has, in addition with Fire Jutsu's and Nature Manipulations as well. Sharingan up to EMS isn't the walk in the park people believes, especially knowing that he has Itachi's Yata Mirror, and Sealing Sword also.

And I won't say Dude wasn't badass, he had his walk in the sun, but the last I saw, this unbeatable force with all of these Godly Water Jutsus, and experience vs. the baddest Uchihas in the land, got merc'd by 20 fucking bounty hunters, so lets not make the Dude unbeatable. Hara's death was unknown why, Hiruzen gave his life away for the Leaf taking Oros arms, as was Minato, dying to the Kyuubi and Obito. Can't skirt around that shit. Fakt.

For Kael, though Edo Nagato didn't catch on that Itachi had 'turned' once the flames hit the only thing that got them off was Shinrai Tensei, aTech that Tobirama dosen't have.

This just aint about Sasuke for me, he or Naruto could defeat many of the Kages 1 on 1 IMHO. Not every one, but many for both at this point in the manga.

These Dudes are all Dinosaurs, they're are Bloodline Limits, and techs they couldn't imagine, I've seen that from Madara himself, figuring out Mei's abilities, for example, shit he prolly never heard of prior to that battle. Keep in mind none of them were like Oro. See, even when he was supposedly 'dead' he was still living, and watching others though CS. All of the Kages when they died, everything stopped, they're learned nothing else until resurrection. Just cause they're older by age dosen't mean you just automatically top off they're plate with this 'experience' from death time foreward. Besides isn't this manga about surpassing? So yes the 2 lead characters should be equal, past, or near they're levels at some point in the manga or whats the point? And also Sasuke's like 17 - 18, and he's a threat to a Hokage Leader Grown Ass Man, while its easy to speak of Sasuke's shortcomings, its odd that no ones astonished that the kid is in the realm he's in fighting the opponents they are. No one in his class besides Naruto, or Gaara has been regularly fighting at this level to the known history of the manga.

Lastly for the Edo, Sasuke saw Itachi Jedi mind trick Kabuto into the unlock seal for the technique, why he couldn't do the same to Oro, or even Tobirama whom should have no idea, this tech is at least +1 compared to what he created and thats if Oro's using his version. I'd say he's prolly using Kabuto's.

__________________
Hit me tha right way, I gots no problem reppin' ya, and look for nothing in return. Just letting Ya know

You have dishonored my Family, and a Shaolin Temple...

許 Yurusenai 許
Unforgivable

Human Rasengan

Just from the way Tobirama looked and the fact that he created Edo tensei I knew dude was a hard ass him telling Hashi to put a sock in it was priceless and the fact that he actually put him in his place speaks volumes.. I don't care much for the current revival of the hokage but if it means more history on Tobirama I'm all for it. hopefully him and Madara will get a go at it and Tobirama can step out of his brother's shadow

False Tobirama did complete edo tensei.. it was just improved upon by Oro and then later Kabuto

Tobirama had T/S jutsu so powerful in fact that Minato's jutsu in that field gets mentioned as it's closets comparrison

Finally Tobirama's water jutsu was soo immense that only Kisame's ability to create water jutsu from having no water source gets a close comparrison to Tobirama. So basically dude could use a shit ton of water dragon jutsu to put you on the run then open a T/s portal that lands you in an area surrounded by edo tense soldiers all encased in a water prison jutsu .. plus form his resolve we've seen he'd do so without a moments hesitation or a feeling of remorse!!!

__________________
for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

The power of despair is great in you.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlzx4...&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3qkz4WfOto

LOL I'M DYING BACK HERE

Amuro

Nah I'm sorry but unless sasuke has a new Jutsu frm the ems, he cnt deal with tobirama at all. Just because of the time period they grew up in and how many uchihas he's fought in his day. He'd b like Madara kinda....every Jutsu that sasuke pulls out he'll look at it and know exactly what it is how to counter it and its weaknesses ect. Plus he's a Edo and I never saw sasuke seal anyone or anything... Now pro and sasuke would prolly take him out if they jumped him but sasuke vs the 2nd rite now...nah sasuke cnt do it...

NeoKakarott023

You must've missed my prior post, let me help...

Nature Type:
Blaze Release
Fire Release
Lightning Release

Jutsu
Amaterasu
Binding Snake Glare Spell
Blaze Release Magatama (Manga only)
Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi
Body Flame Technique
Body Shedding
Chidori
Chidori Current
Chidori Senbon
Chidori Sharp Spear
Cursed Seal of Heaven
Demonic Illusion: Shackling Stakes Technique
Evil Releasing Method (Manga only)
Fire Release: Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Genjutsu: Sharingan
Hidden Shadow Snake Hands
Iaidō
Kirin
Lion Combo
Manipulated Shuriken Technique
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades
Naka Shrine Pass Technique (Manga only)
Pachinko Technique (Anime only)
Peregrine Falcon Drop (Anime only)
Sexy Technique
Shadow Shuriken Technique
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Shield of Black Flames
Strong Fist
Summoning Technique (Hawks, Snakes)
Summoning: Lightning Flash Blade Creation
Susanoo
Sword of Kusanagi: Chidori Katana
Tsukuyomi

Sasuke's already impressive speed saw a huge leap, able to evade attacks from the extremely fast Killer B and A, though he credited the evasion to his Sharingan reading the linear moves. He also greatly increased his hand speed, able to do many hand seals in a blur and launch an enormous amount of weapons just as quickly, as seen during his fight with Itachi. His speed and proficiency with the Body Flicker Technique have also grown considerably, able to easily cut his opponents down without them noticing. When first facing Team Kakashi in Part II, he showed himself able to cover wide gaps in the blink of an eye, giving his former allies no time to react.

Sasuke has shown a high level of stamina and endurance; at the Five Kage Summit, he was able to endure a consistent string of battles against the samurai, two Kage and their bodyguards before finally collapsing from exhaustion. In a near-blind, battered, and visibly exhausted state from his latter fight with Danzō and overusing the Mangekyō Sharingan, he still had enough stamina to fight against Kakashi, restrain and disarm Sakura and later match Naruto's Rasengan with his Chidori. His raw strength has also become noticeably greater, being able to lift Sakura by her throat into the air with a single hand even while exhausted. His overall improvements were so great that Sakura even suspected that he had been given drugs to improve his physical capabilities.

Heres some more information about his chakra which you and others believe is some 'regular Uchiha shit'....

Even by the Uchiha standards, Sasuke has exceptionally strong and large amounts of chakra. At age 7, he was already able to use his clan's signature fire release technique. This later surprised even Kakashi, as such techniques usually require more developed chakra. In Part II, his reserves grew considerably greater, able to use many highly chakra-consuming techniques in a day, even recklessly using three different Mangekyō Sharingan techniques plus Chidori multiple times respectively without visible exhaustion; able to continue fighting effectively with plenty of stamina left against the Kage. Also, even when extremely weakened, he could summon Manda, a high level summon (though he may have used Orochimaru's chakra for this). After gaining Itachi's eyes, Sasuke's reserves appear to have grown even further, as during the battle against Kabuto, he was visibly unaffected from using several of his Mangekyō Sharingan techniques as well as his Chidori multiple times.

Quality-wise, Sasuke's chakra is very powerful; its strength is compared to that of Madara Uchiha's, whose chakra was particularly strong even amongst the Uchiha. When Sasuke first arrived at the Land of Sound and gave Kabuto a frightening glare, both he and Orochimaru noted Sasuke's exceptional chakra. His chakra's strength was even great enough to break free from Danzō's restraining seal by releasing it from his entire body. Likewise, his chakra control has also grown considerably. With many high-level techniques, usually lightning and fire-based, he can perform them with few to no hand seals, giving his opponents little time to react.

Gradually, as Sasuke continued to sink deeper into darkness, his chakra became noticeably darker. Even Kurama noted that Sasuke's chakra has become even darker than his own, and even similar to that of Madara's. Karin has also mentioned that Sasuke's chakra, as he approached the point of manifesting Susanoo, had become even darker, and colder than the corrupting influence of the second stage Cursed Seal of Heaven, and has since continued to grow even more potent along with the development of Susanoo.

Now I have stopped shitting on the 2nd's abilities, I just think they're a negative in a battle vs Sasuke. And people the closest thing to Sasuke that Tobirama ever seen in his life was Madara, cmon son they're were NO Uchiha's like Madara, Izuna, Itachi, or Sasuke ever spoken of before, none. They're all special, manga fakt. To say that the 2nd has a counter for everything Sasuke could throw, but Deidara, Itachi, Orochimaru, Danzou, KB, and Raichu, would like to have a word with you. Because if Sasuke is just some regular uchiha, thats been getting by on luck, and his brothers eyes, damn, did everybody he fought just allow Sasuke to injure them just cause? Just cause why? Itachi holds some weight with the brother shit, but what of the others? One could say for whatever damaged them they didn't have a choice, so until I see different for myself, fuck the Old Hyped Water Kage Dinosaur Dude, Sasuke should mindfuck him into kissing his ass, and take a photo for a shrine.

__________________
Hit me tha right way, I gots no problem reppin' ya, and look for nothing in return. Just letting Ya know

You have dishonored my Family, and a Shaolin Temple...

許 Yurusenai 許
Unforgivable