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Old 02-07-2013, 12:21 PM   #121
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Re: Naruto_619

I am not getting the Tobirama Hype? The guy is literally nothing special at all...

He has water jutsu that even kakashi is capable of without an affinity to water, unmastered edo tensai so he cannot use that and unknown Time space jutsu that are so fodder they are not even worth mentioning.

In fact, you guys only argument for tobirama being able to likely beat sasuke is because he is immortal and indestructible. But, sasuke has already seen how to stop edo tensai with kabuto just days before... and has many different jutsu that can immobilize tobirama so he can genjutsu rape Oro and get it over with...

Amaterasu can burn tobirama continuously for seven days without him being able to stop it without shinrei tensai as shown by nagato... And in that time, sasuke can likely find a way to put tobirama away in his own t/s dimension he used to transport to when he escaped deidara's blast...

Tsukuyomi can paralyze tobirama in an instant and leave him that way for quite a while until he regains control of his nervous system...

Edo tensai being an earth jutsu is weak to Raiton, thus sasuke uses raiton to immobilize tobirama and his ability to regenerate...

All of which leaves sasuke plenty of time to figure out what to do with them in order to stop them for good.

And if sasuke has the sword of totsuka from having itachi's eyes... Then I doubt any of the kages other then minato would be able to beat sasuke... but that has yet to be confirmed, only expected...
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:35 PM   #122
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Edo tensai being an earth jutsu is weak to Raiton,
I'm sorry, but what the fuck are you smoking? Edo Tensei is a summoning jutsu, meaning S/T. It's not an earth jutsu. The only thing "earthy" about it is the fact that it uses dust and dirt to create a new body for the soul. Raiton was only effective against Deidara because his explosive clay was an earth technique.

I said it once before, but I know how slow you are when things don't agree with you so I'll say it again. The only reason that Nagato couldn't move when he was hit with Amaterasu was because HE DIDN'T HAVE THE USE OF HIS LEGS. He had to be carried everywhere he went until he absorbed the Hachibi chakra and restored his body.

Also, saying that Shinra tensei is the only way to remove Amaterasu is an argument from ignorance. It was never stated to be the only way. Amaterasu burns slow, so Tobirama has the potential to do something about it (like use a S/T jutsu to remove it, as Obito did when Sasuke blasted him with it).

Sasuke, currently, has no known means of dealing with Edo Tensei, his skills with genjutsu are lack-luster (he focused primarily on ninjutsu), so I doubt he has the skills to trap Orochimaru in a genjutsu to force him to release Edo Tensei. He's shown Susano'o several times since getting Itachi's eyes, no sword of Totsuka. He's still mortal, so he will grow tired and run out of chakra while Tobirama will not.

Logically speaking, it doesn't matter if Tobirama has "no feats" behind him. Edo Tensei gives him the edge over Sasuke if it were a straight up fight.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:49 PM   #123
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Re: Naruto_619

I just don't get how Itachi went on a worldwide search for tools, then they're connected to his eyes, he even uses the tools as an Edo, but the actual eyes of Itachi no longer contain the tools, cause why? Do they make a decision with whom they attach, and when they'll work? Thats nonsensical, if Edo Itachi has them, Sasuke has the actual eyes. Just because he's not had an opportunity to use them, or even know how to access them, I'll buy, he dosen't have them anymore because Itachi's soul wills it is gay sounding, seriously. Why does the EMS form at all then with the 2 brothers eyes, why isn't that a choice or random?

I'm done with Tobirama, though I don't like him, he has some stats, and it would take a lot of work for Sasuke to off him, cannon would assist past some of Sasuke's Techs, but I'm not one to believe that all of these 'enemies' from the past were so 'bad ass', I mean were talking about people that fought against Tobirama, that was far less than the Edo-Kages that Gaara, and Ooniki and company faced. I don't overhype that competition compared to Orochimaru, Deidara, Itachi, or Danzou, I'd guess most of they're enemies back then were not in this league.

Lastly, from memory, I've only seen Sasuke survive a battle in a 1 on 1 vs. an Uchiha using Susanno, and he was throwing the fight. Danzou lasted as long as his fake assed hax could. And when looking at was Tobirama was 'built' with, as per jutsu, I see nothing that could penetrate Sasukes own Susannow without the tools, and save him from Enton.

Tobiramas only chance, from the word go, T/S Jutsu, then his Thunder Sword or whatever, other than that, all he's doing is running into black flames attempting to touch Sasuke, or am I in left field they're from whats been given? Not guessed or assumed, mind you all.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:00 PM   #124
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Re: Naruto_619

I think people are also forgetting that each generation UNTIL the 5th Hokage was revered as the more powerful than other Kages as in cloud, Rock and such Each generation of Kage was deemed or seen as more powerful than the other villges Kages.
Raikage was only beaten by Minato in Speed. Notice how no kage defeated a Hokage.
When he gave his life to the bounty hunters he could have did something to off himself and the hunters. Just saying we dont know the details.
Sasuke vs Tobirama no Orochimaru genjutsu release, woul be like the Allaince fighting Edo-madara, endless until sealed or the human being(s) he is fighting runs out of steam.
Without a seal team fighting an Edo is a losing fight. No matter if your Naruto, Sasuke or Hashirama.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:08 PM   #125
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by jericho Uzimaki View Post
I think people are also forgetting that each generation UNTIL the 5th Hokage was revered as the more powerful than other Kages as in cloud, Rock and such Each generation of Kage was deemed or seen as more powerful than the other villges Kages.
Raikage was only beaten by Minato in Speed. Notice how no kage defeated a Hokage.
When he gave his life to the bounty hunters he could have did something to off himself and the hunters. Just saying we dont know the details.
Sasuke vs Tobirama no Orochimaru genjutsu release, woul be like the Allaince fighting Edo-madara, endless until sealed or the human being(s) he is fighting runs out of steam.
Without a seal team fighting an Edo is a losing fight. No matter if your Naruto, Sasuke or Hashirama.
I just don't think shutting down Edo is such a feat for an Uchiha, look how quick Obito picked up on the tech in a mere 4 to 5 panels. Additionally whilst Sasukes genjutsu isn't on Itachi's level, it is effective, ask Danzou, what limit exactly is needed to Tobirama? To say cause he's a Kage he has automatic defense against uchihas, sharingans, and all techs just don't work for me.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:13 PM   #126
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
I am not getting the Tobirama Hype? The guy is literally nothing special at all...

He has water jutsu that even kakashi is capable of without an affinity to water, unmastered edo tensai so he cannot use that and unknown Time space jutsu that are so fodder they are not even worth mentioning.

In fact, you guys only argument for tobirama being able to likely beat sasuke is because he is immortal and indestructible. But, sasuke has already seen how to stop edo tensai with kabuto just days before... and has many different jutsu that can immobilize tobirama so he can genjutsu rape Oro and get it over with...

Amaterasu can burn tobirama continuously for seven days without him being able to stop it without shinrei tensai as shown by nagato... And in that time, sasuke can likely find a way to put tobirama away in his own t/s dimension he used to transport to when he escaped deidara's blast...

Tsukuyomi can paralyze tobirama in an instant and leave him that way for quite a while until he regains control of his nervous system...

Edo tensai being an earth jutsu is weak to Raiton, thus sasuke uses raiton to immobilize tobirama and his ability to regenerate...

All of which leaves sasuke plenty of time to figure out what to do with them in order to stop them for good.

And if sasuke has the sword of totsuka from having itachi's eyes... Then I doubt any of the kages other then minato would be able to beat sasuke... but that has yet to be confirmed, only expected...
you obviously missed my reply to your last post on this matter but Tobirama has T/s Jutsu , bringer of darkness, edo tensei, his lightning sword, water techs on a greater level than kissame, plus intimate knowledge of all uchiha and leaf techniques due to his tenure as hokage.

Tobirama can set Sasuke on the run with water dragon jutsu make shit go all black rendering his sharingan weakened, (he can confuse Sasukes chakra sensing ability by using shadow clones, while in the dark open a portal behind him and drom him into a location surrounded by edo tensei zombies encased in a water prison that will rip sasuke to shreds.

there isn't anythign Sasuke can do but inact soosanoo but that wont stop him from suffocating in a water prison
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:15 PM   #127
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
his lightning sword
Anime only, not canon. Never use this again.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:39 PM   #128
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
you obviously missed my reply to your last post on this matter but Tobirama has T/s Jutsu , bringer of darkness, edo tensei, his lightning sword, water techs on a greater level than kissame, plus intimate knowledge of all uchiha and leaf techniques due to his tenure as hokage.

Tobirama can set Sasuke on the run with water dragon jutsu make shit go all black rendering his sharingan weakened, (he can confuse Sasukes chakra sensing ability by using shadow clones, while in the dark open a portal behind him and drom him into a location surrounded by edo tensei zombies encased in a water prison that will rip sasuke to shreds.
there isn't anythign Sasuke can do but inact soosanoo but that wont stop him from suffocating in a water prison
Wow no diss, but I've never seen THAT Sasuke before, ever. A Water Dragon Jutsu faster than Sasuke's Body Flicker.... doubt it. A dark room weakens any Uber Uchiha (Madara, Itachi, Sasuke) to where they're sharingan is weakened???? Never. Confuse Sasuke with shadow clones, but the character that has used them better than anyone ever before in the manga to date was Naruto, and say what you want about who won, but only one shinobi walked away, and the other was a Beast, that didn't. I don't rate Tobiramas experience there better than Naruto. Water Prison... really, a Zabuza Arc 1 trick, Wow. Lets move on past Tobirama, I see where were at, lets start talking about how Ten Ten could destroy Sasuke, they're some validity there, lets go.

Fact is only one other shinobi in the history of the world ever had the same eyes and power as Sasuke, and thats Madara. Experience or not, the power would be the same, example, take away Harashirma's DNA, and Edo, from Madara, and what do you have.... Sasuke with experience.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:59 PM   #129
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Re: Naruto_619

All I got to say is... thank you whomever decided to make Tobirama a hardass. Had that not happened, we all would have had a bleh reaction, and by now, the topic would have switched to one piece like it has the last couple of chapter threads.

The Tobirama characterization has breathed some life into this manga, although it is still pretty shitty.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:05 PM   #130
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Re: Naruto_619

I forgot one other thing, Tobirama used the Bringer of Darkness genjutsu in the anime but it was Hashirama that used it in the manga.

The point of this entire argument is thus: Tobirama, while not knowing his full capabilities, is an Edo Tensei. He has unlimited chakra and constantly regenerates any and all damage done to him. Sasuke is still mortal. He may have a vast amount of chakra, but it has an upper limit, and he is susceptible to injury/death while Tobirama has the luxury of immortality. Sasuke has shown Susano'o on multiple occasions after getting EMS and doesn't have the sword. He hasn't shown any knowledge of actual sealing techniques that can hold Edo Tensei in place. Not saying he doesn't have it, just saying he hasn't shown it.

Tobirama has the advantage in a fight because of his current body state.

HR's post is just nonsense that anyone with a brain cell should ignore.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:22 PM   #131
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
I forgot one other thing, Tobirama used the Bringer of Darkness genjutsu in the anime but it was Hashirama that used it in the manga.

The point of this entire argument is thus: Tobirama, while not knowing his full capabilities, is an Edo Tensei. He has unlimited chakra and constantly regenerates any and all damage done to him. Sasuke is still mortal. He may have a vast amount of chakra, but it has an upper limit, and he is susceptible to injury/death while Tobirama has the luxury of immortality. Sasuke has shown Susano'o on multiple occasions after getting EMS and doesn't have the sword. He hasn't shown any knowledge of actual sealing techniques that can hold Edo Tensei in place. Not saying he doesn't have it, just saying he hasn't shown it.

Tobirama has the advantage in a fight because of his current body state.

HR's post is just nonsense that anyone with a brain cell should ignore.
I resent that .... I had some good points. The sword thing I forgot about being an anime only thing but my other points stand. A dark playing field woudl hinder the sharigan than needs light in order to be effective. Sasuke coudl negate his loss of sight by the sharingans ability to see chakra but this cna be used against him with simple shadow clones.

Long range jutsu would be used to lead sasuke in a direction where a T/S portal either on the floor or behind him woudl suffuice in transportign Sasuke into a large water prison that is filled with edo tense , Sasuke looses mobility fire techs, and on a tiem scedule facing regenerating enemies I dont see how he could stand up.

Gaara already has shown that Soosanoo can be attacked form underneath leadign to the assumption that there is a hole in it somewhere . Water would seep in drowning sasuke as he's fighting ioff undead shinobi.

In this instance alon it'd be a wrap.. no more Emo boy and one victorious Second Hokage to claim victory over a cursed Uchiha!!

this might not be how it would go down btu I've laid out a good palusable scenario in which Tobirama wins and thats not even mentioning the fact that in this state dude is an immortal!
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:39 PM   #132
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
I resent that .... I had some good points. The sword thing I forgot about being an anime only thing but my other points stand. A dark playing field woudl hinder the sharigan than needs light in order to be effective. Sasuke coudl negate his loss of sight by the sharingans ability to see chakra but this cna be used against him with simple shadow clones.

Long range jutsu would be used to lead sasuke in a direction where a T/S portal either on the floor or behind him woudl suffuice in transportign Sasuke into a large water prison that is filled with edo tense , Sasuke looses mobility fire techs, and on a tiem scedule facing regenerating enemies I dont see how he could stand up.

Gaara already has shown that Soosanoo can be attacked form underneath leadign to the assumption that there is a hole in it somewhere . Water would seep in drowning sasuke as he's fighting ioff undead shinobi.

In this instance alon it'd be a wrap.. no more Emo boy and one victorious Second Hokage to claim victory over a cursed Uchiha!!

this might not be how it would go down btu I've laid out a good palusable scenario in which Tobirama wins and thats not even mentioning the fact that in this state dude is an immortal!
Stop it with the darkness, really? The sharingan reads chakra, it dosen't need light, just like with Hyuugas. Remember when Sai walked into the room at Oro's hideout when Sasuke was in the dark, the inside of the Uchiha Shrine where he fought Itachi wasn't the brightest. C'mon Son, light can possibly blind a sharingan momentarily, but they can even see within Zabuza's Mist. Check sharingan stats again.

Secondly, NO SINGLE SHINOBI EVER DID SHIT TO A SUSANNO BY THEMSELVES IN THIS MANGA, NOT ONE. Sasuke survived Itachi's because he kinda died, Oro didn't survive Itachi's, Danzou didn't survive Sasukes.

IN OTHER battles with Susanno and MULTIPLE HIGH LEVEL SHINOBI, they were able to restrict and contain it to a certain degree, i.e. Sasuke vs. Gaara, Temari, Kankuro w/ Sasori, Raichu, and Darui; 5 Kages vs. Madara.

Lastly, you do the math, Tobirama's afinity, is water, on an epic scale.... Sasuke's is lighening, on near the same scale (he's produced the largest Nature Manupulated Jutsu in the manga, Kirin), which is faster. Yeah Tobi has T/S, I give that.... to stay on the run. The distance and precision Sasuke can attack with lightening, is retarded. You can come up with a scenario, I don't say its impossible, but with what you've offered so far, it dosen't fit well into the story, and ain't believeable... were to the end of the manga, everythings going to be done on a uber scale, like Snake Sage, nobody saw that coming.... water prison...? that is beneath anyone from THAT Chuunin Exam now, even Ten Ten.

Btw, Sasuke dosen't have to seal him, only restrict him if he can catch him outside of his T/S, whom can't be better than Obito who's an Uchiha IMHO. Sasuke managed to 'catch' Oro with Sharingan controlled shurikens, and usually uses that within his battles once a battle. At this point, is it possible to walk up to Oro, (whom stands little chance vs. Sasuke's genjutsu's, he's used Oro's own shit against him in the past when he wasn't even at the point where he is now) and turn off Edo Tensei.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:34 PM   #133
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Re: Naruto_619

When comparing 2 characters in strength you need to bring feats to the table. I see a lot of you using subjective shit.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:22 PM   #134
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Re: Naruto_619

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoKakarott023 View Post
Stop it with the darkness, really? The sharingan reads chakra, it dosen't need light, just like with Hyuugas. Remember when Sai walked into the room at Oro's hideout when Sasuke was in the dark, the inside of the Uchiha Shrine where he fought Itachi wasn't the brightest. C'mon Son, light can possibly blind a sharingan momentarily, but they can even see within Zabuza's Mist. Check sharingan stats again.

Secondly, NO SINGLE SHINOBI EVER DID SHIT TO A SUSANNO BY THEMSELVES IN THIS MANGA, NOT ONE. Sasuke survived Itachi's because he kinda died, Oro didn't survive Itachi's, Danzou didn't survive Sasukes.

IN OTHER battles with Susanno and MULTIPLE HIGH LEVEL SHINOBI, they were able to restrict and contain it to a certain degree, i.e. Sasuke vs. Gaara, Temari, Kankuro w/ Sasori, Raichu, and Darui; 5 Kages vs. Madara.

Lastly, you do the math, Tobirama's afinity, is water, on an epic scale.... Sasuke's is lighening, on near the same scale (he's produced the largest Nature Manupulated Jutsu in the manga, Kirin), which is faster. Yeah Tobi has T/S, I give that.... to stay on the run. The distance and precision Sasuke can attack with lightening, is retarded. You can come up with a scenario, I don't say its impossible, but with what you've offered so far, it dosen't fit well into the story, and ain't believeable... were to the end of the manga, everythings going to be done on a uber scale, like Snake Sage, nobody saw that coming.... water prison...? that is beneath anyone from THAT Chuunin Exam now, even Ten Ten.

Btw, Sasuke dosen't have to seal him, only restrict him if he can catch him outside of his T/S, whom can't be better than Obito who's an Uchiha IMHO. Sasuke managed to 'catch' Oro with Sharingan controlled shurikens, and usually uses that within his battles once a battle. At this point, is it possible to walk up to Oro, (whom stands little chance vs. Sasuke's genjutsu's, he's used Oro's own shit against him in the past when he wasn't even at the point where he is now) and turn off Edo Tensei.
What I meant by limiting the sharingan was that with an occular jutsu you have to see your opponent to hit them , so Ameterasu isn't something to use against the darkness jutsu. Sasuke would then have to rely on the sharingan's ability to see chakra as color the way he did against Deidara, but Tobirama knowing thsi could make a handfull of shadow or water clones to split his chakra across the battlefield making Sasuke unable to detect the real one.

Secondly in the kage fight Madara was taken out of his susanoo shield by one Gaara SA General.. he used his sand to go underneath madara and grab him by the leg makig a near hit possible for the rasenshuriken that was subsequently destroyed. Tobirama could do the same thing with some shape manipulated water so YES one ninja can get through the defences of susanoo

Lasly Tobirama's T/S portals act as a great defence. any lighning varient Sasuke can produce can get warped away and redirect right back ast sasuke.

As for the water prison you assume that I speak of the one Zabuza made in part one but you neglect the GIANT ass Mobile Water prison that kisame made that woudl be great to fill with the edo tensei soldiers, this takes away sasuke's lighning ability as well as his katon and I don't see his taijutsu holdign off 10 powerful shinobi that casn regenrate before he ends up running out of air and passing out at the feet of a triumphant Tobirama. Remember Giant ball rasengan and all those ball varients are still a rasengan , so just because someoen say's water prison dont think they automatically mena the little one.. if thats the case then konohamer's rasengan can stop an odama rasengan which we know isn't the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
When comparing 2 characters in strength you need to bring feats to the table. I see a lot of you using subjective shit.
All ther eis to use is subjective shit since we have zero battle records or fighting for Tobirama to base his feats on , only the fat that he was a Hokage , Oro stole his edo tech, Obito and minato's T/s were compared to his and so forth.

Like someoen said earlier based on his status and the little info that was provided .. those 20 bounty hunters could have all been elites , a Haku, Itachi, Dairu, kakashi, filled team of killers, but the fact that they took down a kage and hold a title of elite bounty hunter lets us know these dudes were badass just in the same manner we see the power of Madara and to knwo Hashi stood on par with his shit lets us know how powerful he is... so there is a speculative way of gaging power levels and abilities that have yet to be seen.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:11 PM   #135
Encon Uchiha
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Re: Naruto_619

Just because Tobirama is Edo doesnt make him unbeatable...How many Edo's were defeated...? yeah its not that hard. And Sasuke could destroy a good amount of the Shinobi alliance
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