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Old 02-11-2013, 09:24 AM   #166
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by NeoKakarott023 View Post
Actually if I were Uchiha, why show up in the first place? Anything Kyuubi can be controlled by an Uber Sharingan user, but history has shown that only Madara, Izuna, Obito, Itachi, Shisui, and Sasuke has ever had power enough to 'control' Kyuubs. Honestly, no other Uchiha came near these power levels within the manga, so for people considering that they're were lots of Uber Uchiha's, I call bullshit. They were generally shinobi with special eyes to a point, and was controlled to not allowed MS, or EMS from the set up. If not why was Itachi practicing his own MS secretly, let no one know but Sasuke as he left the Leaf. He had MS, he could've crushed everyone at will loudly and proudly.
i may be wrong about this but the uchiha's were any elite clan . sasuke had some control over the 9 tails when he saw naruto with just a basic 3 tomoe Sharingan i dont see any thing to uber about that but your missing the point here the uchiha's would never had been suspected of causing the 9 tails attack had they helped stop it the only reason the upper tire of the leaf suspected them was because of there absents during the darkest day of the leaf

if u and your best friend walk to school everyday TOGETHER and one random day your best friend is NOT there and u get jumped r u not going to question were that friend was especially if u know that your friend could have stopped them
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:19 AM   #167
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Re: Naruto_619

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i may be wrong about this but the uchiha's were any elite clan . sasuke had some control over the 9 tails when he saw naruto with just a basic 3 tomoe Sharingan i dont see any thing to uber about that but your missing the point here the uchiha's would never had been suspected of causing the 9 tails attack had they helped stop it the only reason the upper tire of the leaf suspected them was because of there absents during the darkest day of the leaf

if u and your best friend walk to school everyday TOGETHER and one random day your best friend is NOT there and u get jumped r u not going to question were that friend was especially if u know that your friend could have stopped them
Yes they were elite... vs other shinobi. If they were so elite as to be able to genjutsu control any bijuu, the Leaf could've, and would've take all of they're enemies Bijuu's at will throughout time. Naruto wouldn't have been special, they would've had multiple Jinks. Now even Chiyo stated its crazy to attempt to fight an Uchiha one on one, but remember were talking ninja.

Kyuubs has been controlled by Madara, Obito, and that is all. Sasuke never 'controlled', or attempted to. He only 'invaded' that special realm between Jink, and Bijuu, and seemingly evicted Kyuubs from the realm. He wasn't seeking a battle, control, and Kyuubs commented on his power how much greater than a normal shinobi, to the point of putting him in Madara's neighborhood.

For real, no other Uchiha achieved these feats, Shisui was way too young, as were Itachi, and Sasuke. No other Uchiha have ever been named to achieve MS, or the ability to control the Kyuubs. Not in the manga anywhere, therefore they were about as effective against the Kyuubs that night as the Hyuuga. They could've prolly seen its chakra well before it killed them.

Lastly, look at what Oro stated, they weren't looked upon by everyone as 'comrades' and were seperated as if they had AIDS or some shit. Why would I the AIDS Bringer, run to anyones aid that basically used me as a servant on a chain, that needs to be controlled and monitored. It would've prolly been equal to aliens invading the Master big white house at 2:00 a.m..... 'Damn, hope Masters whip work against that shit, if I do go see what happened, it'll be after somebodies wiped out first to see whom I work for.'

Think it this way, how many other Uber Senju have we heard of besides, Harashirma, Tobirama, and Tsunade, and notice the extra long break between generations after the 2nd. Uchihas/Senju were simply clans that because of they're abilities were destined to die out, maybe like the Uzimaki's.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:24 PM   #168
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by NeoKakarott023 View Post
Yes they were elite... vs other shinobi. If they were so elite as to be able to genjutsu control any bijuu, the Leaf could've, and would've take all of they're enemies Bijuu's at will throughout time. Naruto wouldn't have been special, they would've had multiple Jinks. Now even Chiyo stated its crazy to attempt to fight an Uchiha one on one, but remember were talking ninja.

Kyuubs has been controlled by Madara, Obito, and that is all. Sasuke never 'controlled', or attempted to. He only 'invaded' that special realm between Jink, and Bijuu, and seemingly evicted Kyuubs from the realm. He wasn't seeking a battle, control, and Kyuubs commented on his power how much greater than a normal shinobi, to the point of putting him in Madara's neighborhood.

For real, no other Uchiha achieved these feats, Shisui was way too young, as were Itachi, and Sasuke. No other Uchiha have ever been named to achieve MS, or the ability to control the Kyuubs. Not in the manga anywhere, therefore they were about as effective against the Kyuubs that night as the Hyuuga. They could've prolly seen its chakra well before it killed them.

Lastly, look at what Oro stated, they weren't looked upon by everyone as 'comrades' and were seperated as if they had AIDS or some shit. Why would I the AIDS Bringer, run to anyones aid that basically used me as a servant on a chain, that needs to be controlled and monitored. It would've prolly been equal to aliens invading the Master big white house at 2:00 a.m..... 'Damn, hope Masters whip work against that shit, if I do go see what happened, it'll be after somebodies wiped out first to see whom I work for.'

Think it this way, how many other Uber Senju have we heard of besides, Harashirma, Tobirama, and Tsunade, and notice the extra long break between generations after the 2nd. Uchihas/Senju were simply clans that because of they're abilities were destined to die out, maybe like the Uzimaki's.
i get where your coming from that there haven't been any know uchiha's with that kind of power in the village but still the lack of trying is what im getting at the uchiha's were all but gone except itachi and sasuke. plus you mean to tell me that sasuke at 15 was stronger then any uchiha that lived in the village at the time so his father leader of the clan was weaker then sasuke at 15 no one other then obito n madara could have taken control or suppressed the 9 tails

again im not saying that they had anything to do with the attack all i am saying is that it looks kinda weird that not a single uchiha stepped up also there was more then just sasuke's dad in that meeting place where the table is who had strong eyes but again no one even tried to defended there home

P.S the uzimki's are different they didnt die out they where wiped because of the fear of there sealing justu the uchiha's were wiped out because of there ideas that they are better then the other and was willing to risk a civil war and world war for there own goals the uchiha clan is just as much to blame as the leaf im mean your really going to start a war because u were moved to a new location be real that's a pretty dumb reason to kill people who had nothing to do with it sasuke had the best solution kill the one who had something to do with the order the 3rd is already dead he killed danzo so the only ones left are the 2 elders no one really cares about
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:49 PM   #169
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Re: Naruto_619

Sasuke at ~17 is stronger than Fugaku was when he was the leader of the Uchiha. This is a fact shown by Sasuke not only having the Mangekyo, but Eternal Mangekyo. As for where the Uchiha were when the Kyuubi attacked, who the fuck knows. But it was stated that the attac was such that the Uchiha were going to be blamed, since only the Uchiha and Hashirama were known to have the power to control the Kyuubi.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:55 PM   #170
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
I'm impressed that a debate of an invincible zombie vs the patron of all fantards is still raging on, as if any side could win.

But it's amusing to see the two most prominent dumbasses on opposite sides and pretty much at failing at making any point. And more amusing is to see one of them still having huge problems with the fallacy of composition. Just an hint: not all Doton use the Snake handseal and not all jutsu that use said handseal are Doton (there are in fact Fuuton, Katon and Suiton that use it), so labeling Edo Tensei a Doton just because it uses the Snake handseal is completely erroneous and idiotic to begin with.
Lol, because Edo tensai was performed with an Earth seal doesn't mean it's earth element related... Really, for someone who speaks of using Logic. You sure do not seem to be abiding by your own words.

And last I checked, I did not say simply because an earth seal is used, that Edo Tensai is likely earth element related... Learn to read! I said that plus the fact that Edo's actually use earth for their bodies...

How does...

: The Use Of an Earth seal...

: then a body of earth being used...

Not imply that ET could very well be a form of earth jutsu??? And I do not recall someone using an earth seal to use a different element... Please prove...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
I couldn't care less about this debate or getting into any kind of conversation with KYF for that matter, but I just got to point out one thing I know to be absolutely false.



^This. I don't know how many times I've seen Kyf and others make this claim that Sasuke has some sort of alternate dimension he can go to. No...that's Tobito. Sasuke has never had (and hopefully will never have) that ability.

Sasuke escaped Deidara's blast by jumping in Manda's mouth and unsummoning him back where he came from, which is NOT an alternate dimension. It has already been shown that summoning animals exist on the same exact world as the rest of the cast. This was made evident by Pa Toads' own words that it would normally take 1 month on foot to reach their mountain hideout. Just recently it was shown that by researching Juugos' chakra Orochimaru was able to find the source of it, went on a journey to Ryuchidou for the same reason.



I'll take the chocolate flavor.. ...with vanilla wafers on top.
Sasuke "flew" as in Transported himself and manda into a different space. It even says so...
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-368-14/...apter-363.html

Clearly sasuke has a Time space jutsu where he can transport himself into another dimension, but requires either a clone of himself or someone with his blood to summon him back from that dimension...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
You missed a lot apparently. As Num pointed out, the Snake seal is used in conjunction with other elements besides Doton. Also, that's not even the snake seal. The order of seals for Edo Tensei goes: Tiger > Snake > Dog > Dragon > clap hands (which is what we see Kabuto doing from the translator's note "sfx: clap").

Edo Tensei is NOT a doton. It is S/T. We have never seen the same technique from 2 different elements. And I seriously doubt we ever will.
The tiger-snake-dog-dragon clap is how to end the jutsu, not how to create it... Kabuto was shown using an earth seal, then the sacrifice was overcome with earth that created the revived shinobi's body and form...

Clearly earth element is involved in the creation of the jutsu otherwise an earth seal and use of earth would not be needed...
And just because Edo tensai is already a summoning variation jutsu and thus a Time space jutsu... Doesn't mean it cannot be an elemental jutsu as well...

Look at amaterasu... It is clearly a Katon jutsu, but the flames are ignited onto the target with mere focus of the eye... which is basically summoning flames onto the point of focus, not moving the attack through space to hit the enemy like a standard katon jutsu... which would technically make amaterasu a form of time space jutsu..
So if amaterasu can be a Time space katon jutsu then why couldn't Edo Tensai be a Doton time space jutsu???

And not to mention that ET is likely a senjutsu technique as well... I came to this conclusion due to the fact that Tobirama created the ET jutsu, but could not finish it making it practical and applicable as a ninjutsu... But, Orochimaru was able to finish the jutsu... then Kabuto was able to take it to whole other level...
ANd Oro is a snake Sage and kabuto is a dragon sage, even beyond Oro as a sage... Thus ET must be a senjutsu technique since only sage's have been able to actually use the jutsu...
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:25 PM   #171
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Sasuke at ~17 is stronger than Fugaku was when he was the leader of the Uchiha. This is a fact shown by Sasuke not only having the Mangekyo, but Eternal Mangekyo. As for where the Uchiha were when the Kyuubi attacked, who the fuck knows. But it was stated that the attac was such that the Uchiha were going to be blamed, since only the Uchiha and Hashirama were known to have the power to control the Kyuubi.
True, so in the manga they're are no other Uchiha's like Madara, Izuna, Shisui, Itachi, or Sasuke, none before. Not one anyone ever even named for anything special or spectacular.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:01 PM   #172
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Sasuke "flew" as in Transported himself and manda into a different space. It even says so...
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-368-14/...apter-363.html

Clearly sasuke has a Time space jutsu where he can transport himself into another dimension, but requires either a clone of himself or someone with his blood to summon him back from that dimension...
No. Try using a translation that doesn't suck ass KYF.
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/Narut...to-363/page-14

Sasuke summoned Manda, used genjutsu to control him, jumped inside of his mouth, and then ordered him to unsummon himself. All Summon creatures have the ability to naturally send themselves back home any time they want. How many times has Gama Bunta been shown to simply disappear in a puff or smoke. Or when Ma' and Pa' toad took Naruto off to train in their mountain hideout. One poof of smoke and they arrive at the destination. NOT AN ALTERNATE DIMENSION!!!

The scroll Suigetsu had was just a summoning scroll.
Protip1: It actually had a picture of a snake on the scroll. I wonder what it was designed to summon, DERP.
Protip2: Summoning an animal requires the blood of the person who signed the contract.
Protip3: The blood in the bottle was sasukes.
Protip4: Suigetsu didn't look the least bit surprised when a giant ass fucking snaked appeared before him. Almost like he was expecting it, eh.
Protip5: Refer to Protip1.


Bonus Protip: Never talk to KYF...ever. Shame on me.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:07 PM   #173
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Re: Naruto_619

So...
  • you fail to acknowledge it's the fucking Dragon handseal, not the Snake handseal.
  • you fail to acknowledge yet again that a trademark handseal ISN'T universal to all its constituents, therefore fallacy of composition. In a matter of fact, here are two examples of Doton that don't use the Snake seal: Doton: Earth-Style Wall (used by Hiruzen and Kakashi, handseals are Tiger-->Hare-->Boar-->Dog) and Doton: Earth-Style Rampart (used by Yamato, it used the Tiger handseal). Oh looksy, we even have the panel with the Tiger handseal for the latter! And since we have the hands on the dough, let's call the Fuuton, Katon and Suiton that use the Snake seal: Fuuton: Great Breakthrough (Tiger-->Ox-->Dog-->Rabbit-->Snake, used by Orochimaru), Katon: Ash Pile Burning (used by Asuma, Snake-->Rat-->Snake-->Tiger) Suiton: Water Dragon Bullet Technique (used by Kakashi and Zabuza, seen here. Just look up the signs that look like a weird P, those are the Snake seals). So, after this behemoth of a point, what do we conclude? A Snake seal (which is really a Dragon seal but I digress) a Doton does not make, it's only common to see a Snake seal on a Doton, nothing less, nothing more
  • You fail to acknowledge that Edo Tensei already is a S/T jutsu, thus impossible to be a basic elemental jutsu by definition. You're pretty much arguing the equivalent of saying the platypus is a mammalian bird because it has a beak and lays eggs, despite the fact that by being a mammal it can't be a bird by definition.
  • You fail to acknowledge that it was fucking Manda and his summoning contract who allowed Sasuke to pull the most contrived of escapes and the fucking manga actually bothers to explain it nicely so even a braindead fuck can understand it without pulling arbitrary dimensions out of his ass. So it seems that you are below braindead.
  • You fail to acknowledge that Amaterasu is not a fucking S/T justu, so don't even try to bring back that corpse of an horse back. Want to suck on Uchiha cock by making their jutsu ultra-hyper-mega awesome by pretty much fucking logic sideways, go back to NF and stop staining this forum with that particular shenanigan.
  • ... so a non-sage (as far as we know) created a senjutsu... uh. Am I the only one who sees the absolute stupidity of this statement? Also, dumbass, Tobirama DID finish ET, the thing is both Orochimaru and Kabuto improved on it. So yeah, down the drain goes your abortion of a thought.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:22 PM   #174
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Re: Naruto_619

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Sasuke "flew" as in Transported himself and manda into a different space. It even says so...
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-368-14/...apter-363.html

Clearly sasuke has a Time space jutsu where he can transport himself into another dimension, but requires either a clone of himself or someone with his blood to summon him back from that dimension...
Purple prosing, you clearly do not understand it. Sasuke summoned Manda, hid in his mouth, and reverse summoned him before they were completely enveloped in the explosion. The "flying" bit is just embellishing to make it seem cooler.

Quote:
The tiger-snake-dog-dragon clap is how to end the jutsu, not how to create it...
Sorry, chief. But, like so many other things you have tried to claim, you are wrong. The seals to end Edo Tensei are Rat > Ox > Monkey > Tiger > Dragon > Boar

Quote:
Kabuto was shown using an earth seal,
He was clapping his hands to finish the seals. Shown by the "sfx: clap" under that very panel.

Also, as Num has pointed out, the Snake seal isn't just associated with Doton.

Quote:
Clearly earth element is involved in the creation of the jutsu otherwise an earth seal and use of earth would not be needed...
Except the only "earth" involved is the reforming of the sacrifice's body via dust and clay to recreate the golem.


Quote:
And just because Edo tensai is already a summoning variation jutsu and thus a Time space jutsu... Doesn't mean it cannot be an elemental jutsu as well...
Name one actual jutsu, stated in the manga, that can fall under space/time and elemental. I'll wait...

Quote:
Look at amaterasu... It is clearly a Katon jutsu, but the flames are ignited onto the target with mere focus of the eye... which is basically summoning flames onto the point of focus, not moving the attack through space to hit the enemy like a standard katon jutsu... which would technically make amaterasu a form of time space jutsu..
So if amaterasu can be a Time space katon jutsu then why couldn't Edo Tensai be a Doton time space jutsu???
We've been over this before. Amaterasu is not even close to being a space/time jutsu. Both panels from the manga showing Jiraiya using a seal specialized for fire and the fucking databook stating it is a katon of the highest order have been shown to kill this stupid idea of yours.

Quote:
And not to mention that ET is likely a senjutsu technique as well... I came to this conclusion due to the fact that Tobirama created the ET jutsu,
What the fuck? How does a technique that defies the natural order fall under "Senjutsu"? Tobirama has never shown senjutsu capabilities, neither had Hashirama or Tsunade.

Quote:
But, Orochimaru was able to finish the jutsu...
Quote:
ANd Oro is a snake Sage
Stop right there. Orochimaru never was a Sage. Kabuto even pointed out that Orochimaru didn't have a body that could handle Sage mode.

Quote:
Thus ET must be a senjutsu technique since only sage's have been able to actually use the jutsu...
Except, of all the people you listed, only one has been confirmed to have Sage mode. Tobirama was a Suiton specialist, Orochimaru didn't have the body for Sage mode.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:16 PM   #175
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Re: Naruto_619

Wrong on one thing Orochimaru did have sage power as he absorbed his senjutsu chakra from kabuto http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c593/21.html it clearly stated that it was Orochimaru's chakra so him being in possession of senjutsu chakra made him a sage.. just not a complete one.. it's the same as how Naruto became a perfect sage while Jiraiya only could do Hermit mode.

Oro was a sage just not a perfect one liek Naruto and Kabuto!
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:22 PM   #176
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Re: Naruto_619

@ HR: big whoop, there are jutsu that an incomplete Sage can't perform, so saying Edo Tensei is a senjutsu isn't specific enough, coupled with the point you clearly missed and was that the creator of the goddamn jutsu isn't known as a Sage to begin with.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:35 PM   #177
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
No. Try using a translation that doesn't suck ass KYF.
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/Narut...to-363/page-14

Sasuke summoned Manda, used genjutsu to control him, jumped inside of his mouth, and then ordered him to unsummon himself. All Summon creatures have the ability to naturally send themselves back home any time they want. How many times has Gama Bunta been shown to simply disappear in a puff or smoke. Or when Ma' and Pa' toad took Naruto off to train in their mountain hideout. One poof of smoke and they arrive at the destination. NOT AN ALTERNATE DIMENSION!!!

The scroll Suigetsu had was just a summoning scroll.
Protip1: It actually had a picture of a snake on the scroll. I wonder what it was designed to summon, DERP.
Protip2: Summoning an animal requires the blood of the person who signed the contract.
Protip3: The blood in the bottle was sasukes.
Protip4: Suigetsu didn't look the least bit surprised when a giant ass fucking snaked appeared before him. Almost like he was expecting it, eh.
Protip5: Refer to Protip1.


Bonus Protip: Never talk to KYF...ever. Shame on me.
Only one thing, the purpose Suigetsu had some of Sasuke's Blood was to Summon Manda in Sasuke's place, so he didn't even have Manda unsummons himself. Why Manda/Sasuke got tore apart was because Suigetsu and Hebi were kinda late doing the summons, at the time Art is a Bang was going off.

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Wrong on one thing Orochimaru did have sage power as he absorbed his senjutsu chakra from kabuto http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c593/21.html it clearly stated that it was Orochimaru's chakra so him being in possession of senjutsu chakra made him a sage.. just not a complete one.. it's the same as how Naruto became a perfect sage while Jiraiya only could do Hermit mode.

Oro was a sage just not a perfect one liek Naruto and Kabuto!
You are correct, but according to Kabuto because Oro didn't have Dragon (Juugo's Clan) within his bloodline he wasn't adequate for Sage Arts training. Which is odd because Oro used that within his CS's from Juugos Bloodline. Perhaps at the time he wished to be trained was prior to him gaining Juugo. Not sure.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:44 PM   #178
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Sasuke at ~17 is stronger than Fugaku was when he was the leader of the Uchiha. This is a fact shown by Sasuke not only having the Mangekyo, but Eternal Mangekyo. As for where the Uchiha were when the Kyuubi attacked, who the fuck knows. But it was stated that the attac was such that the Uchiha were going to be blamed, since only the Uchiha and Hashirama were known to have the power to control the Kyuubi.
that's 100% true but im talking about before gained those he still had enough power in his eyes to suppress the 9 tails so no other uchiha had strong enough eyes to at least put up a fight im not saying the whole clan but they had to have had a strong member in the clan before itachi came into power
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:27 PM   #179
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Re: Naruto_619

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that's 100% true but im talking about before gained those he still had enough power in his eyes to suppress the 9 tails so no other uchiha had strong enough eyes to at least put up a fight im not saying the whole clan but they had to have had a strong member in the clan before itachi came into power
As has been mentioned before, even before gaining the mangekyo, hell before the cursed seal, Sasuke had exceptionally strong chakra for an uchiha. He also didn't suppress the kyuubi. He just told the mental projection in naruto to go away.

Also, they had numerous powerful members. It was noted that the clan had a history of killing friends to get the mangekyo after Madara and Izuna woke theirs. So, obviously, there had to be others but were killed for their eyes.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:55 PM   #180
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
As has been mentioned before, even before gaining the mangekyo, hell before the cursed seal, Sasuke had exceptionally strong chakra for an uchiha. He also didn't suppress the kyuubi. He just told the mental projection in naruto to go away.

Also, they had numerous powerful members. It was noted that the clan had a history of killing friends to get the mangekyo after Madara and Izuna woke theirs. So, obviously, there had to be others but were killed for their eyes.
ok and with that new info it seems even more strange that none of the them tryed to help all because they got moved to a new corner of the village emotional much let many ninja and non ninja who had nothing to do with there relocation die yea there guilt free in this
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