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Old 02-12-2013, 05:59 AM   #181
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by NeoKakarott023 View Post
Yes they were elite... vs other shinobi. If they were so elite as to be able to genjutsu control any bijuu, the Leaf could've, and would've take all of they're enemies Bijuu's at will throughout time.
All the tailed beasts did belong to Konoha. They were distributed as a gesture of good will to promote peace and balance amongst the villages.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:45 AM   #182
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by Emissary of Justice View Post
All the tailed beasts did belong to Konoha. They were distributed as a gesture of good will to promote peace and balance amongst the villages.
You're almost correct....

By the time of the formation of the shinobi villages, Hashirama Senju, the First Hokage, used his Wood Release techniques to capture and give several tailed beasts to the other shinobi villages as peace treaties, in order to stabilise the balance of power between them. However, after Hashirama's death, the villages had trouble containing the beasts themselves and they began to run wild, so the villages instead moved to seal the tailed beasts within humans.

So I'm gathering he got what he could to gift, but not all. And they didn't 'own' them, they went out a hunting for the purpose of having something to gift.

So no Uchiha assisted in the gathering, and since they were being monitored, I'm guessing the many attempts at killing for MS was prior to them coming into the alliance with the Senju.

Btw KYF, no diss but the fastest Sasuke can move is within his Body Flicker, or Blitz, he has no T/S at all manga faktz. T/S users.... Tobirama, Obito, Hanzo, no one else in the manga has used it beyond what Kakashi can do. Not even Madara has been seen as able to do it.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:35 PM   #183
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
No. Try using a translation that doesn't suck ass KYF.
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/Narut...to-363/page-14

Sasuke summoned Manda, used genjutsu to control him, jumped inside of his mouth, and then ordered him to unsummon himself. All Summon creatures have the ability to naturally send themselves back home any time they want. How many times has Gama Bunta been shown to simply disappear in a puff or smoke. Or when Ma' and Pa' toad took Naruto off to train in their mountain hideout. One poof of smoke and they arrive at the destination. NOT AN ALTERNATE DIMENSION!!!

The scroll Suigetsu had was just a summoning scroll.
Protip1: It actually had a picture of a snake on the scroll. I wonder what it was designed to summon, DERP.
Protip2: Summoning an animal requires the blood of the person who signed the contract.
Protip3: The blood in the bottle was sasukes.
Protip4: Suigetsu didn't look the least bit surprised when a giant ass fucking snaked appeared before him. Almost like he was expecting it, eh.
Protip5: Refer to Protip1.


Bonus Protip: Never talk to KYF...ever. Shame on me.
You have no proof what so ever that sasuke used reverse summoning through manda for his time space jutsu.... You merely THINK that is what happened because no where was it said that is what sasuke did...

And your translation is no better then mine... It says basically the exact same thing... Juugo recognizes sasuke used a transportation jutsu... hen suigetsu does as well to confirm it... it did not specify a reverse summoning using manda...

And why would the snake seal go missing if manda is at home where he came from? It is more likely that the snake seal represented sasuke and disappeared when he was no longer in the dimension by reverse summoning himself to another...
What is worse, how can using the blood of sasuke summon manda LMAO??? Clearly that was to summon sasuke, not manda... Your explanations are as bad as your arguments...

Sasuke obviously used a time space jutsu to remove himself an manda from the battle field and manda was used for nothing other then a shield to take the hit from deidara's blast... Your ability to interpret this manga is worse then it was before...


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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
So...
  • you fail to acknowledge it's the fucking Dragon handseal, not the Snake handseal.
It was a snake hand seal... Look at it again..... palms together and fingers interlocked... snake hand seal... A dragon seal is just like the snake, but with two finger pointed down... where are the two fingers pointed down in the panel??? There are none, therefore, it was a snake hand seal and clearly used for earth since earth is what came next.. you know, the bodies of the edo's...

LAMO, you are so dense sometimes... I never once said only the hand seal is what makes it seem like a form of earth elemental jutsu...

Quote:
  • you fail to acknowledge yet again that a trademark handseal ISN'T universal to all its constituents, therefore fallacy of composition. In a matter of fact, here are two examples of Doton that don't use the Snake seal: Doton: Earth-Style Wall (used by Hiruzen and Kakashi, handseals are Tiger-->Hare-->Boar-->Dog) and Doton: Earth-Style Rampart (used by Yamato, it used the Tiger handseal). Oh looksy, we even have the panel with the Tiger handseal for the latter! And since we have the hands on the dough, let's call the Fuuton, Katon and Suiton that use the Snake seal: Fuuton: Great Breakthrough (Tiger-->Ox-->Dog-->Rabbit-->Snake, used by Orochimaru), Katon: Ash Pile Burning (used by Asuma, Snake-->Rat-->Snake-->Tiger) Suiton: Water Dragon Bullet Technique (used by Kakashi and Zabuza, seen here. Just look up the signs that look like a weird P, those are the Snake seals). So, after this behemoth of a point, what do we conclude? A Snake seal (which is really a Dragon seal but I digress) a Doton does not make, it's only common to see a Snake seal on a Doton, nothing less, nothing more
You fail at reading comprehension because I know all this, but right after an earth seal was used... Earth came into play with the jutsu... Not even you can try and rationalize that into something else...

Quote:
  • You fail to acknowledge that Edo Tensei already is a S/T jutsu, thus impossible to be a basic elemental jutsu by definition. You're pretty much arguing the equivalent of saying the platypus is a mammalian bird because it has a beak and lays eggs, despite the fact that by being a mammal it can't be a bird by definition.
ANd you fail to realize that amaterasu is a Katon and time space jutsu... So why couldn't A jutsu as complicated as edo tensai be both??

If elements can be put together then why can't other jutsu... and You do realize that obito's only fire jutsu as an adult was a Time space Katon jutsu... right...

Quote:
  • You fail to acknowledge that it was fucking Manda and his summoning contract who allowed Sasuke to pull the most contrived of escapes and the fucking manga actually bothers to explain it nicely so even a braindead fuck can understand it without pulling arbitrary dimensions out of his ass. So it seems that you are below braindead.
LAMO, I am so braindead yet it I can clearly read good enough to tell it never said that sauske used manda's reverse summoning to transport himself... Only that sasuke used a time space jutsu and it required sasuke's blood and a contract to get him back... Manda was nothing more then a shield, not the vehicle for his transportation... The only reason manda came with sasuke when he was summoned by suigetsu is because sasuke was in him, making contact so both were summoned...

Learn to read...

Quote:
  • You fail to acknowledge that Amaterasu is not a fucking S/T justu, so don't even try to bring back that corpse of an horse back. Want to suck on Uchiha cock by making their jutsu ultra-hyper-mega awesome by pretty much fucking logic sideways, go back to NF and stop staining this forum with that particular shenanigan.
LAMO, speaking of fucking logic sideways... You damn hypocrite... thus lacking any credibility with anyone who actually understands logic...

Explain to me how a time space jutsu works... It's a jutsu that manipulates space time... ANd last I checked, amaterasu was ignited onto the target directly meaning it is a fire attack that does not travel between the space of the user and the target... it literally is just ignited onto the point of focus as if it were summoned by the eye itself...

And if amaterasu is a fire attack that can manipulate space time enough to ignite on a point of focus as opposed to having to travel from the eye to the target... It's a form of time space jutsu... You just fail to understand how amaterau works obviously... SO go on about how much I do wrong because, project your little ass off, because it just makes you even less credible then you already were...

Quote:
  • ... so a non-sage (as far as we know) created a senjutsu... uh. Am I the only one who sees the absolute stupidity of this statement? Also, dumbass, Tobirama DID finish ET, the thing is both Orochimaru and Kabuto improved on it. So yeah, down the drain goes your abortion of a thought.
Pardon? You again clearly do not read the manga... How could Oro use sennin chakra A.K.A. Sage chakra... if he were not a sage??? He is a snake sage... And kabuto a dragon sage... Thus only two sage's have been able to use edo tensai thus could likely be a senjutsu technique...
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And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


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Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:37 PM   #184
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Sorry, chief. But, like so many other things you have tried to claim, you are wrong. The seals to end Edo Tensei are Rat > Ox > Monkey > Tiger > Dragon > Boar
Then why did kabuto only perform only an earth seal, then his edo tensai was born??? You are saying he used multiple seals when the manga shows something completely different...

Quote:
He was clapping his hands to finish the seals. Shown by the "sfx: clap" under that very panel.
Wrong, multiple hand seals are shown either in multiple panels or like this in one panel and uses the suffix "CLAPS"... Or "clap Clap" to show more then one hand seal... Not clap as in one hand seal...
This is a multiple hand seal in one panel as shown with minato...
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/Naruto/Naruto-502/page-6

You were wrong...

Quote:
Except the only "earth" involved is the reforming of the sacrifice's body via dust and clay to recreate the golem.
That is the basis of the entire jutsu... Why doesn't the fact it requires the use of earth mean anything to you or Failious? WIhtout it, the body of the revived shinobi could not be used... I mean, if water was use din the creation of, or wind or fire... you would damn sure see how that jutsu could be a form of that elemental jutsu... But somehow, because earth is used, along with an earth before that... It cannot be earth related...

I am having difficulty following these messed up trains of logic...

Quote:
Name one actual jutsu, stated in the manga, that can fall under space/time and elemental. I'll wait...
AMATERASU... The eye manipulates space enough to hit the enemy with fire, without having to travel the distance form the eye to the target... Like summoning the flames directly onto the point of focus...

Obito's Time space Katon jutsu he used here... KAMUI Katon...http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/Narut...to-600/page-16

If you read and understood the manga, you would already know this.

Quote:
We've been over this before. Amaterasu is not even close to being a space/time jutsu. Both panels from the manga showing Jiraiya using a seal specialized for fire and the fucking databook stating it is a katon of the highest order have been shown to kill this stupid idea of yours.
No, all you and everyone else did was just "no, it isn't, so there" as if that was going to trump the FACT that amaterasu does manipulate space enough to hit the target with it's flames without traveling from the eye to the target by igniting on the point of focus, as if summoning the flames...

That is more then enough to label any jutsu, time space...

Quote:
What the fuck? How does a technique that defies the natural order fall under "Senjutsu"? Tobirama has never shown senjutsu capabilities, neither had Hashirama or Tsunade.
Tobirama never was able to actually use the jutsu though... he only created the idea and formula... It was however two sage's who were able to use it and more... Coincidence... Maybe, maybe not...


Wrong, Oro uses Sage chakra... thus has to be a sage... WHat he was pointing out, is that he could not find a body to use this ability of juugo's clan... Not that he himself could not... Oro was a snake Sage and kabuto was a dragon sage... it is confirmed...




Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoKakarott023 View Post
Btw KYF, no diss but the fastest Sasuke can move is within his Body Flicker, or Blitz, he has no T/S at all manga faktz. T/S users.... Tobirama, Obito, Hanzo, no one else in the manga has used it beyond what Kakashi can do. Not even Madara has been seen as able to do it.
But you are wrong... Sasuke has already used many time space jutsu...

1). Amaterasu...
2). SNake summoning...
3). Hawk summoning...
4). Weapons summoning...

Sasuke has used many time space jutsu... and apparently has one where he can transfer himself to another dimension, but needs someone else with his blood to summon him back... It makes no sense for sasuke to use manda to reverse summon himself... which would take him to Ryuuchudou of all places...

Then, for some reason... a snake on a scroll disappears... when sasuke is still in the narutoverse... and it takes sasuke's blood to bring him back... Makes no sense...

And madara has used time space jutsu as well... His Meteor summoning...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

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Old 02-12-2013, 02:02 PM   #185
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Re: Naruto_619

Now I get why KYF doesn't seem to read the manga right, he sees less than Mr Magoo at a new moon night.

Quote:
It was a snake hand seal... Look at it again..... palms together and fingers interlocked... snake hand seal... A dragon seal is just like the snake, but with two finger pointed down... where are the two fingers pointed down in the panel???
How exactly did you miss the goddamn pinkies sticking down? If they were largely omitted from the panel, I'd give you a pass, but anyone that isn't blind or on the way to be so can see the pinkies sticking out of the finger locks. Gee, no wonder you are stupid beyond belief, you don't even look at what is right in front of your face. I'll only bother with the other loltastic arguments when you have the decency of seeing the fucking obvious.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:37 PM   #186
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Re: Naruto_619

I love how KYF linked a collaborative jutsu to say "Look! elemental and space time!"

Hey, genius. That attack was him spewing fire and using Kamui to enhance it. He used 2 attacks at once.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:48 PM   #187
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
I love how KYF linked a collaborative jutsu to say "Look! elemental and space time!"

Hey, genius. That attack was him spewing fire and using Kamui to enhance it. He used 2 attacks at once.
Of course he couldn't do that fact bending without bringing up Amaterasu as T/S first. By Cthlhu, the denial of the fucking obvious is worst than an hilbilly who takes the Bible literally.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:50 PM   #188
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Re: Naruto_619

T/S Jutsu so that people are on the same page is what Obito does, and he moves himself or whatever he touches at will. A SUMMONS ISN'T CONSIDERED THAT BECAUSE ITS A CONTRACT AND A REVERSE SUMMONS, NOT A T/S JUTSU IN THE CONTEXT OF EQUIVALENT TO WHAT OBITO DOES, OR MINATO. Everything that is brought somewhere may use that concept, it dosen't mean the freaking user controls T/S, to the point where they can 'teleport' themselves. And Sasuke doesn't, Itachi didn't have T/S within their moves list. Manda was summoned by Suigetsu, Sasuke went along for the ride.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:18 PM   #189
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Re: Naruto_619

I am guessing since Orochimaru took over Zetsu's body, he now has gained half of the power he needed to be the sage of the six path.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:28 PM   #190
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Re: Naruto_619

@ both Neo and KYF: T/S jutsu is (by how every jutsu oficially branded as so operates) any jutsu that transports a certain object from point A from point B without crossing all the points inbetween. That's why Summoning and Reverse Summoning ARE T/S jutsu, since the first brings the summon from its habitat to the summoner and the opposite is true for the latter.

That said, the technique Sasuke used to grab shurikens from his bracelets ISN'T T/S jutsu, is Fuuinjutsu, since the shurikens are sealed beforehand and unsealed in battle, not summoned. Also, Amaterasu ISN'T T/S jutsu just because it is casted away from the caster (which can be explained easily by an effect akin to light enhanced by a lens), it simply lacks any reference to any point A it'd have to come from. If one says the caster, then all jutsu would be T/S. So, unless there is evidence on the manga itself of an origin exotic to the caster/battle, Amaterasu can't be T/S (along with being classified as an elemental jutsu, because there isn't any reference of any basic element being able to modify the space/time continuum as a T/S jutsu does, so it's logical to infer no elemental jutsu is a T/S jutsu).
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:34 PM   #191
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Re: Naruto_619



T/S motherfuckers!!!!!!
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:38 PM   #192
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Re: Naruto_619

@neo: go back and read when jiraiya was first training naruto in summoning. He called it a type of space/time jutsu since it transports an object from point A to point B without actually crossing that distance in real time.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:06 PM   #193
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
@neo: go back and read when jiraiya was first training naruto in summoning. He called it a type of space/time jutsu since it transports an object from point A to point B without actually crossing that distance in real time.
I understand that its doing the same process, my point is that the only characters with the ability to use T/S or something similar to move they're own body to another location are Obito, Hanzo, Tobirama, and Minato. Sasuke isn't using T/S to move his body like them. T/S was used through Sasukes blood contract, and Suigetsu's use on the summoning seal. Sasuke didn't will himself to another location T/S and has never had such ability is what me and Ask's point was.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:09 PM   #194
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Re: Naruto_619

I understand, and that is my point too. I never said that he had the ability to warp himself. But to say that summoning isn't a time/space jutsu is just wrong.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:45 PM   #195
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Re: Naruto_619

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Originally Posted by NeoKakarott023 View Post
I understand that its doing the same process, my point is that the only characters with the ability to use T/S or something similar to move they're own body to another location are Obito, Hanzo, Tobirama, and Minato. Sasuke isn't using T/S to move his body like them. T/S was used through Sasukes blood contract, and Suigetsu's use on the summoning seal. Sasuke didn't will himself to another location T/S and has never had such ability is what me and Ask's point was.
I understand what you're getting at Neo, but let me clarify something. T/S jutsu in general is simply moving something from point A to point B instantly. When a ninja signs a summoning scroll what they are doing is making themselves into point A, while making the animals they can summon the Point B. That's how summoning and reverse summoning work. Naruto and the toads are essentially the opposite ends of the same T/S jutsu, and either one can summon the other to their location.

The same exact process applies to Minato and his use of FTG. Minato is point A and his Daggers are Point B. And just as Naruto can summon any different number of toads he chooses (they are all considered Point be for illustration purposes), Minato can appear at any dagger he desires.

I really don't know anything about Hanzo or Tobirama's techs, so I won't comment, but Obito may be a bit of an abnormality, but he's uchiha so it's an expected hax.


Edit: As for sasuke, your right that he didn't use T/S. We're all (except kyf) in total agreement there. He simply summoned a creature using a T/S jutsu and hoped aboard for the return ride.
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