Numinous

The thing is, we only saw Zetsu copying others' chakra while impersonating them and it's unknown if they can hide others' chakra, so I wouldn't bet on that scenario. I only mentioned that Zetsu cloak could mess the chakra signature in the eventuality of the older Zetsu still not having the chakra hiding feature.

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NeoKakarott023

Okay, after Hara tells his story, and Vote is shown, if your wrong, will you at least say 'Sorry' Kyf? If the power levels are equal to Oonki putting his hands down to quit his jutsu, and Tsunade's shock, will you just say I was wrong, Minato would've gotten owned. If whilst telling his story, Minato says 'Damn, I couldn't do anything against this Guy' will you stop creating scenarios with jutsu in the 'Create your own battle and winner game!', with the character of ones choosing.

__________________
Hit me tha right way, I gots no problem reppin' ya, and look for nothing in return. Just letting Ya know

You have dishonored my Family, and a Shaolin Temple...

許 Yurusenai 許
Unforgivable

Konnaha_yellow_flash

Madara will prove his superiority... and Minato's speed is too much for hashirama. And without any way for him to counter minato's speed to keep from being blitzed... Or to possibly catch minato, to be able to apply his immense power and jutsu... Hashirama cannot possibly win.

Forest creation? Some Naruto with some kyuubi juice enhanced rasengans, not even sage mode completely stopped forest creation.... So Minato with a rasengan at the same level could easily stop it form hit him at least, not the entire jutsu... But if minato can use Kage bushin's... then he could completely stop the entire jutsu like naruto did...

Forest Flower creation with KO pollen??? That stuff could not even effect the current kage. They hovered above the battle field for a short time then continued fighting and the KO pollen did nothing...
Lol, Minato can transport himself to another location for a short time to let the KO pollen disperse and he is safe like the kage... Or just suck it up with his t/s barrier jutsu that works like KAMUI...

His Brute strength for super strong taijutsu? Minato has huge brute strength as well, which was proved by the destructive force of his basic rasengan... Anyways, how will hashirama ever hit minato when he can move instantly or even raikage physical speed without the FTG...

Hashirama's Speed and reflexes? Hashirama's speed and reflexes are average at best... so he would never be able to hit minato with his average speed and reflexes since minato's own reflexes are Raikage level as well as his shushin much less his instant FTG speed...

Hashirama's Regeneration? If minato cuts his throat, stabs some random organs or externally gives bad damage. Hashirama could heal from that fast...
However, tsunade proved that cutting the user in half is too much for the regeneration, thus removing the head or limbs would be the same... as well as stabbing the brain or heart directly.
And minato's power with a Kunai is strong enough to cut through the hachibi's tentacle with a simple thrust and those things have taken a Jink lava attack without melting and the 4tails could not even rip one off with his brute strength while also using the hachibi's weight to augment his attack on the tentacle... SO minato could obviously dismember hashirama's limbs, waist and neck with much trouble...

And Minato already proved he can attack the heart directly as shown with Obito... and could easily attack the Brain as well, which would bypass the regeneration completely. Killing even hashirama quickly.

And what can hashirama really do to avoid being blitzed by the FTG? Forest creation? NO, minato easily throw a kunai above the attack then FTG to it, avoiding the attack. Meanwhile hashirama is left open because he is busy with his hand seal and creating a forest as well as lost sight of minato. All minato would have to do is throw a kunai directly at hashirama and blitz to him...

Ko Pollen? NO, minato can hold his breathe and just simply attack hashirama the with FTG to get away from the pollen and attack as well... The pollen proved to be not very effective by itself... showing it works better as a distraction...

IMO, Mokuton Clones are hashirama's only Hope against minato. But, Minato is a sensor and Mokuton clones are not like kage bushin's. Unable to tell the differeence between the real one. And even if they were like KBs. Itachi with his ability to analyze and read people allowed him to find the real naruto out of 100 in a large area... And analyzing and reading people is an ability minato has as well...
Able to deduce the weakness of kakashi's attack after seeing it only once...
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-245-14/...apter-240.html
After meeting Tobito only once before as tobi and seeing Obito's attacks only once too. Minato easily deduced Tobito's attacks, intentions and possible identity... and even came up with a strategy to get past his unbeatable defense that no one else has ever been able to do so easily... Not even BM naruto, KB, kakashi and Gai...
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-55464-1...apter-502.html
And
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-55464-1...apter-502.html

And if all else fails by some disadvantageous circumstances... Minato can summon Ma and Pa sage frog then have them use frog song which would hit all the clone and the real hashirama immobilizing the mind and body...

Everything hashirama has, Minato can easily avoid or counter. And because hashirama has no way to possibly follow minato's speed, All his power and jutsu mean nothing... And because Minato's speed gives him the ability to attack hashirama at will with either precise Kunai stabs or just sage level destructive rasengan and dismembering kunai slices...
The regeneration advantage means almost nothing....

And I think minato's ability to use his Time Space barrier jutsu to draw in the enemies attacks, then can use the FTG to reverse summon them directly back at the enemy if they are tagged with his seal or close to one (thrown kunai or placed one)
Minato can literally use the enemies own attacks against them, but they are thrown back at the enemy INSTANTLY by reverse summoning the attacks that were draw in by the KAMUI-like t/s jutsu... Meaning the attacks are unavoidable...

How do you think hashirama would do being hit by his own forest creation instantly when tsunade was split in half by one limb of FC...Or being Hit instantly with Gamabunta's Giant water bullet instantly, Fukasaku sage frog's Wind stream plus SHima sage frog's fire stream that comes together into a huge fire storm technique, Fukasaku's high speed water cutting technique that cut through pain's Chameleon summon like hit knife through butter...

Minato>hashirama is proven by ^^^ up above. And unless hashirama has some unknown jutsu or ability that can allow him to track minato and defend against his attacks as well as land an attack of him own. Then hashirama could not possibly ever beat minato in combat.

__________________
People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA

kael03

It's so cute when he claims "manga fkatz!" without any supporting evidence and without the entire story being told.

Konnaha_yellow_flash

The current story is from hashirama's point of view though and it is already canon that he had no idea that madara was only trying to get his DNA to start his current plan that has almost come to fruition.
And if Mito was not there to seal the kyuubi in the battle then clearly I misinterpreted what the author was trying to say. Or he just contradicted himself yet again.

And Minato saying anything means nothing because it is still just hype. Unless hashirama can prove he has an ability or strategy to counter, nullify or compete with minato's Speed and reflexes... Then I will admit hashirama could beat minato, but until then I do not see how any of you could logically come to the conclusion that minato would lose against hashirama.

__________________
People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA

Numinous

Oh, you mean since you denied with every single inch of your being that Banbutsu Souzou didn't exist, just for a few months later to acknowledge it? Color me unsurprised, it's obvious a complete idiot won't like when he has to admit his idiocy. Your reaction to Tobi=Obito must have been priceless, having to face the fact that even Kishimoto at his lowest isn't as braindead as you are.

... my god, your English grades couldn't possibly have been higher than a C in school. Clauses within a phrase, you know what that is? The "in that battle" is intricate to the clause of Hashirama getting the Kyuubi, there's no indication it transpires to the next clause (of Mito harnessing Kyuubi's power).

Let's take an example that even a third-grader would understand:

" At 4 PM, I bought a CD and, to listen to it in the best way, I played it on my PC."

By your complete lack of reading comprehension, the person making this example would be playing the CD on his/her PC when buying the CD, when anyone with a brain would say it's unknown, since the person could have a laptop and indeed play the CD when buying or have a stationary PC, meaning the person had to bring the CD home in order to play it.

But let's add the fact that we saw the person on the shop to buy the CD and we never, but ever saw him/her carrying a laptop. The most logical conclusion is that the person didn't play the CD when buying the CD. To say the person did play the CD when buying it is, you guessed it, ASSUMING s/he did play when in the original phrase it doesn't declare so, thus making an argument from ignorance. Now you understand why you point is completely illogical?!

Oh god, the idiocy, it burns! Do you know ANYTHING about narrative? It's already facepalm-worthy how Kishimoto feels the need to spoon-feed his readers with his silly aesops, it'd be exasperating if he started to spoon-feed us with exposition that'd make Randy Newman's lyric writing look subtle by comparison. Everybody that isn't an idiot understood that phrase just fine, so why cater to your preschooler reading capacity?

Gee, what you want next, for Kishi to modify the opening of his first chapter to say "Twelve years ago, Minato, Naruto's father, sealed Kurama (that's the Kyuubi's real name, by the way) while being made a kebab by it along with his wife Kushina, a true tragedy caused Tobi, who was really Obito, Minato's pupil who he thought was dead from a bad case of boulders but isn't because a geezer named Madara aided him to complete his mission to enslave the world into an eternal genjutsu"?

Jesus Christ, what some people are willing to relinquish to justify their sick fetish with a character that will cease to exist in 1~2 years...


The first. If you dare to advocate the latter when it transpires, oh boy, will you be in hot water.

__________________

jekyl_hyde

But the messing with the chakra signature shows that there is a possibility that Zetsu can hide/mask a person's chakra signature. I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you remember saying there was no way Madara could survive the release of Edo-Tensai... and low and behold...

P.s. Sorry about the late response... little man is really fussy today and trying to go on a date with the wife tonight.

Konnaha_yellow_flash

What the frack are you CLAIMING now!?!

I posted feats of minato which are manga facts... Everything I post of hashirama is also manga facts... And how minato could counter, avoid and blitz hashirama, while hashirama himself has no ability or strategy to track, negate or compete with minato's speed. Making his chances of winning almost none, is all based on feats and manga facts

Funny you still do not consider the links and panels I post portraying minato doing what I said he was doing, as well as, the ones showing what hashirama's abilities are capable of and how minimally effective they have been against weaker Kages is not EVIDENCE...

For the love of jebus, what is evidence to you???

And whether the entire story of hashirama has no been told. WHat is a fact, is the FACT that madara has a couple opportunity to use amaterasu, tsukuyomi or SG genjutsu before resorting to susanoo... And now that susanoo (the use of the amaterasu and tuskuyomi eye's at once) is the tactic he is applying. There is no way for madara to use amaterasu or tsukuyomi, thus they will likely no be used in the fight at all proving that madara was holding back, not even using two of his most powerful jutsu. even when he had the perfect opportunity to do so...

Validating the already confirmed conclusion that madara was just trying to gain hashirama's DNA.

__________________
People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA

Numinous

Just because there's the possibility doesn't mean it's the most logical one. Defending a possibility with an asspull isn't the best defense either, or else we couldn't say anything about this manga ever.


And to the dimwit: Susanoo>>>>>>Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. Hell, even the Magatama are better than Amaterasu, since they at least do direct, consistent damage.

And the manga states Hashirama defeated Madara on a death match while it NEVER said Madara was holding back just to pick DNA (which I still find only plausible to a complete idiot who doesn't know spilled blood still has DNA, so why not kill Hashirama and get the village as a bonus?)

__________________

Konnaha_yellow_flash

I did not trust a single translation of one MH member considering every other translation said something completely different. But, I checked it myself and there was something called "creation of all things"... But it turned out the original translation was actually correct... Izanagi was Originally a jutsu for "creation" By being the practical Application of "creation of all things" that in the context of a ninjutsu/genjutsu... Is a technique that can create...
You and others however though cannot accept this. Even though banbutsu souzou is mentioned to be nothing other then what became the sage's creation Izanagi...

And Tobi=Obito was so close I should have gotten it, but the idea of tobi=obito blinded me to the obvious truth... Instead I suspected the only other uchiha with short spiky hair, hashirama-like power/abilities and a eye power never seen before...
Although I was wrong, I was so close just focusing on the wrong special uchiha out of the only two...

Kishi said that in that battle hashirama gained control then to gain it's power, Mito sealed it within herself. That is a complete sentence tying both actions together, as if they happened "in that battle".

Again, if kishi wanted everyone to know that hashirama gained control of the kyuubi in that fight, "BUT" after bringing the kyuubi back to the village, Mito sealed the it within herself to Gain it's power "FOR" the purpose of maintaining the balance of power... But that is not what was said...

Kishi said through Kushina to naruto "DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE BATTLE BETWEEN HASHIRAMA AND MADARA? IN THAT BATTLE, HASHIRAMA GAINED CONTROL OF THE KYUUBI AND IN ORDER TO GAIN IT'S POWER, MITO SEALED IT WITHIN HE BODY BECOMING IT'S FIRST JINK."

And how do you suppose hashirama brought the kyuubi back to the village then held it in place until Mito was brought to the village to become it's Jink? Serious problem with that! Mito would of had sealed the kyuubi there when hashirama binded it with his wood dragon because he had no way to move it around, much less bring it back to the village.

Let's take an example that even a third-grader would understand:

Blah blah blah!!! None of which disproved that kishi was actually saying that Mito sealed the kyuubi in that battle...

And you still have yet to explain why Mito would need to gain the power of the kyuubi if there was no reason to use it, as in to help hashirama.

I could care less about madara uchiha or hashirama senju. But, there are a couple examples in kushina's explanation of what happened in that battle which imply Mito was there and sealed the kyuubi within herself to help hashirama...

Not to mention, Obito knew that the kyuubi's power offers the ability to sense evil and he could of only learned that from Madara. And the only time madara could have possibly seen Mito use the kyuubi's power to learn such a thing. Was back then in that battle. Because madara became a Mermit, secluding himself to experiment on hashirama's DNA to revive the sage power, the RG.

SO he could not of possibly saw Mito in action with the kyuubi's power any other time and since he zetsu were not created until he gained the RG, long after mito was dead. Madara had to learned about the kyuubi's ability to sense evil from that battle...

The first. If you dare to advocate the latter when it transpires, oh boy, will you be in hot water.[/QUOTE]

LMAO, so you, who recognize more then anyone how much this manga contradicts itself constantly. Dares to Claim it could not be what would cause such an outcome simply because you want me to be wrong...

You my friend are becoming the personification of the word HYPOCRITE... You do it so damn much... and you know that contradiction is illogical as shit, (I suspect, but you do not even understand Logic so makes sense you would not understand false logic either). Anyways, yet, you still do it so much.

__________________
People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA

jericho Uzimaki

Here is my take on Minato sensing abilities:

He like any other ninja that uses chakra can also sense it to an extent. Like when there is a huge amount of it any ninja can feel or sense it.
Also if the said chakra they sense is of a familiar origin, then they can say, "that is Naruto's chakra!"

So seeing as how Tobirama actually pinpointed where it was,that shows he is an ACTUAL sensor. Minato of course knew Naruto's chakra and the 9tails. But notice he could also tell that they were mixed together. Tobirama also only stated Madara's chakra, cause he knew that person.

Remeber in past fights with various characters when they fight someone really strong they may say," this chakra is ...." because they can feel or sense it to an extent. I mean how can you use chakra if you can't even feel it?

Don't bring up Lee, he uses chakra he just can't manipulate it for any jutsu.

So in the end, Minato is not a sensor he is just a ninja that knows familiar chakra when he feels it.
Why didn't. He know Obito you say? Simple: he was inside the Zetsu suit and Minato has NEVER met Zetsu or Hashirama before to say,"that is the 1st Hokage chakra. ..."

So.that is that, sorry I had to introduce logic into this. Just kidding, maybe.

__________________




Gamble

Joshua the Rogue

Transformers:Generations
For NaruHina fans

First Orange knuckle head ninja

The Question

Numinous

Pfftt-hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Only you would rationalize your complete inanity like this. So characters with completely different names, different plots, different timelines, different powers, different characterization, being the only thing in common their shared clan, you were soo close. That's like saying you were confident Herman Cain would win the last Presidentials and, when Obama won, you'd say "ZOMG guys, I was sooooo close because they're both black".

Sorry, there's no close or halfway there when it comes to these plot twists, you either get it right or get it wrong because every character is unique in its properties. I got it wrong, you got it wrong, there's no ifs or buts, but at least I didn't build a circus over my ineptitude to accept opposing views.

Congratulations, you just proved you're intellectually dishonest! I hope your slimey wankery to the most boring of villains this side of Aizen is consolation enough for when your stupidity bites you in the ass yet again.

Oh gee, it's not like the manga already demonstrated the incredible power of the Kyuubi and stated that such power is best put to use as a Jinchuuriki's power. I guess she did it for the lulz of tricking everyone into thinking Madara was serious when he was fighting Hashirama.

Grow up.


No, I want you to ADMIT you are wrong IF you are wrong without any BS of "oh so close" that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You know, like a man and not the most pitiful of pussies this forum has ever seen that can't even take bets or even participate in an harmless hypothetical versus situation just to avoid admitting he's human, thus prone to err.

And since the probability of you being wrong on this matter is way, WAY higher than you being right, I'm just playing with the odds.

Yes, that's why I created a thread about logic that NOBODY said was wrong. KYF, stop projecting, be a man for once and start using your brain to realize how idiotic you're being.

And, even if I was an hypocrite (even considering what you says are "contradictions" are contradictions to YOUR fucked up brain, not anyone else's), how does that invalidate my highly logical arguments. You know that appeal to hipocrisy is a fallacy, right? You're not winning any argument by being fallacious AND by failing to provide an argument that isn't laughable for its clear bias.

__________________

jericho Uzimaki

Question:

Why is there. Even an argument on Mito sealing Kurama inside her during the fight or not?

The answer is : up to your interpretation until we see it for ourselves.

The thing That gets me is why would that mean Hashirama is any less bad ass?
Mito did not fight Madara or the Kyuubi (at least it hasn't be mentioned she did).
Shew as support at most, after Hashirama took Madara's big hairy weapon away.

Facts:
1. Madara used his MS and Kurama to fight.
2.Hashirama fought him and Kurama.
3.Kurama was taken away.
4.Mito sealed him inside of her.
5.Madara lost the fight.

Now, I don't know if you guys have been paying attention but to seal or unseal a tailed beast, it takes a bit of time and preparation.
So using what I call deductive reasoning: Mito Uzumaki sealed Kurama after the actual fight OR Tobirama may have helped her(or anyone).

Tobirama must have been there to watch the fight at least, by his response to Hashirama telling the story if it.
But anyway no way she could have physically fought along side Hashirama against Madara and seal Kurama. She had to do it right after or with help from someone other than Hashirama.

Here is a question: when did he die? I mean he met Tsunade, whom was around when Tobirama and Hurizen were Kage. So, why did he not know Orochimaru? My guess is he died shortly before she went into the Academy. Seeing as how he obviously never taught her any jutsu of his own.
Oh and Hurizen.wasnt a kid when he became Hokage, he just didnt have any facial hair at the time.

__________________




Gamble

Joshua the Rogue

Transformers:Generations
For NaruHina fans

First Orange knuckle head ninja

The Question

Konnaha_yellow_flash

Tsukuyomi could easily bypass the regeneration power of hashirama, paralyzing him. It would be perfect to defeat hashirama, but kishi did not let him use it... I wonder why...

Susanoo is the ultimate defense and also has very powerful offense as well... However, Susanoo is still the Best attack, even boasted by Sage Kabuto who knows about even RG jutsu...

And Mangatam>amaterasu just shown how much you will absolutely delude yourself to try and create a counter argument.

Mangatama has some destructive power, determined by the amount and size of the attacks which vary.

But Amaterasu is easily far more destructive and a insta-win against almost any shinobi... Only shinobi with a way to block the focus of the user or move so fast they can avoid it could possibly get past amaterasu....
It can be ignited directly onto the enemy from a distance like it's being summoned. It is as fast as a time space technique and is almost completely unavoidable...

Amaterasu beats the enemy in one shot...
: The hachibi.
: Raikage. (he was assisted by Shi to helo him though)
: Danzou. (but revived by Izanagi)
: Pain's Cerberus summon that is so damn hard to kill...
: Bird and Ox summons of Pain as well...
: random crow and Koto eye.
Edo Nagato was Beaten, being bured so bad his arm and half his head was gine even with the instant regeneration and until he was bale to use shinrei tensai to remove the flames, he was powerless to stop it, even with HG realms chkra absorbing jutsu... (so it would have killed the real nagato) So it can defeat an EDO who is invincible.

ANd if amaterasu can ignite onto the enemy like being summoned and hashirama has no raikage speed and reflexes. And not even the Edo tensai regeneration could stop amaterasu then hashirama's regeneration would also be no match as well...

No, Madara said he fought a death match with hashirama, but it was already previously confirmed that Madara just wanted hashirama's DNA to experiment to become the next SO6P. He had no desire for the village or hashirama's.

Obito confirms that madara fought that battle to gain hashirama's abilities and even called the legend of hashirama beating madara at the valley of the end as well.


So if madara was fighting to gain his abilities then why would he need, much less want to kill hashirama when it was not his Goal... Clearly what madara was referring to when he said he fought a death match, was that he fought in a mtach with hashirama who was trying to kill him....

__________________
People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA

jericho Uzimaki

When opposing forces, here it is ninja, fight it is kill or be killed. Granted if you are unevenly matched the more powerful or skilled ninja can decide not to kill the other.

That is not the case here, Madara couldnt afford to "go easy" on Hashirama. Just like any warrior/ soldier/ ninja/ etc. can't afford to go light on an enemy. He may not want to kill his opponent but he is still fighting for his life, which means he might end up killing the other guy, just to survive.


But trust and believe there is no question or reason for Madara NOT TO WANT Hashirama dead.

Hashirama is the symbol of years of defeats and opposition to Madara and his clan. DNA gathering my ass, he got his ass kicked and later discovered he had a bit of DNA logged in his butt cheek from Hashirama' s foot,lol.

Note: the Manga never stated Hashirama killed Madara at VotE, just defeated him. Whuch inturn created the valley itself. He may have knew the whole tike that Madara made it out alive,bjt weakened. I meanhe was excommunicated by his clan for trying to rebel remember? He had nothing, Hashi might have felt bad for him and told him to "never return here or your life will be forfeit. .."

__________________




Gamble

Joshua the Rogue

Transformers:Generations
For NaruHina fans

First Orange knuckle head ninja

The Question