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Old 02-26-2013, 11:52 PM   #1
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Naruto_622

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Old 02-27-2013, 12:02 AM   #2
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Re: Naruto_622

I want flashbacks of the fight, not this. Unless Kishi is going to show the progression of how Hashi becomes the god of shinobi, this is all useless b.s. We all know by now that all powerful Uchihas are just pathetic emos.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:06 AM   #3
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Re: Naruto_622

Five bucks that Itama is related to black zetsu..... Naruto is just dragging now, a flashback within a flashback ugh.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:12 AM   #4
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Re: Naruto_622

Hey there boys and girls, what's happening here is called In Medias Res. The flashback started smack dab in the middle of the action before moving into the actual beginning of the flashback (and it will subsequently build up back into the action). This is a relatively common fucking thing. It's not inherently shitty writing, it's not actually badly paced at all yet.

Honestly, this makes Hashirama's peace-y bullshit so much more believable than Naruto's given the life he endured. It's like Kishi is purposefully writing all of Naruto's predecessors on the "peace" front to have much more compelling reasons for their Ninja Jesus crap than the main fucking character. Itachi, Pain, Jiraiya, now fucking Hashirama. They'd all seen actual suffering, they'd all endured a living hell. Not our plucky Ninja Jesus main character though! Really, this chapter mostly puts into perspective how goddamned petty both Naruto and Sasuke are for all their melodrama, given what their predecessors had to face.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:26 AM   #5
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by AOTKorby View Post
Hey there boys and girls, what's happening here is called In Medias Res. The flashback started smack dab in the middle of the action before moving into the actual beginning of the flashback (and it will subsequently build up back into the action). This is a relatively common fucking thing. It's not inherently shitty writing, it's not actually badly paced at all yet.

Honestly, this makes Hashirama's peace-y bullshit so much more believable than Naruto's given the life he endured. It's like Kishi is purposefully writing all of Naruto's predecessors on the "peace" front to have much more compelling reasons for their Ninja Jesus crap than the main fucking character. Itachi, Pain, Jiraiya, now fucking Hashirama. They'd all seen actual suffering, they'd all endured a living hell. Not our plucky Ninja Jesus main character though! Really, this chapter mostly puts into perspective how goddamned petty both Naruto and Sasuke are for all their melodrama, given what their predecessors had to face.

You've got to be f'n kidding right? 18 pages that could have been summed up in two.... All you needed from this chapter was that both Hashi and Madara lost siblings when they were young, and Hashi was an idealist from about the time of Naruto's age when the manga was introduced.

And again... you must be kidding, especially your last paragraph. All of Naruto's predecessors witnessed pain and suffering. Naruto experienced the shit first-hand. Fuck, based on his life before he was acknowledged by the village, he was a textbook case for depression (everyone despised him; unknowingly his parents sacrificed themselves for his life, also creating the reason why he was despised by the village; and Sarutobi really f'ed him over by never really informing of him about his parents... fuck... it seems like Tsunade and Jiraya weren't going to do it either). You can make the same argument for Sasuke, finding out that your family was murdered and you were spared by your brother, who mind-fucked you into thinking he did it, all so you would become stronger and try to kill the motherfucker (Itachi's only downfall IMHO)????

Kishi is showing two alternatives of how to respond to horrendous events/upbringings (Naruto the positive way, Sasuke... not so much).

And on another note, seeing how Kishi shows instances of where Naruto's predecessors failed, and then Naruto quickly succeeding where they failed, this manga is coming to a close. Jiraya couldn't completely master senjutsu by himself and lost Orochimaru. Naruto has mastered senjutsu. Minato couldn't develop the rasengan further (same goes for Kakashi... he did state that his raikiri is different than the rasengan). Naruto has done that. And now Hashi is going to ultimately fail in battle with Madara in not killing his hatred. Naruto is going to win back Sasuke somehow. $100 says he does by headbutt (Gaara) or uppercut coming up from the ground (Neji).
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:45 AM   #6
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Re: Naruto_622

Hm.....interesting perspective I'm sure. Crist I stayed up for this? Extra minute of sleep then, since I just wasted a minute of my time.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:51 AM   #7
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Re: Naruto_622

This is not a bad flashback as it is building to something more, but Kishi can't let this drag out anymore. But it seems like a pivotal flashback as the climax of the story is approaching or has been reached already.

I too would like to see Naruto surpass his predecessors in other ways then just more powerups. Having Sasuke fight with him to take down Madara and Obito seems reasonable. But I don't think Sasuke will be convinced all that much from Hashirama's story. I will say that Sasuke, unlike other Uchiha has an isolated upbringing so that makes him unique as a lone wolf or a wild card.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:06 AM   #8
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Re: Naruto_622

I enjoyed the flashback...it wasn't what I was expecting but it shows more to their tale than what we knew. Madara had already lost three brothers. Hashi lost siblings as well. Hashi also had a tough spirited father. Who like Minato lived a life as a real Shinobi. He taught his kids through training love. Both sides Uchihas and Senju alike fought miserable wars that brought depression and short lived lives. So much that the children were placed on the battlefield. Hashi wanted to change that through an agreement. Madara wanted to change that with an Alliance. Though young both shinobi knew what it took to lead to a peaceful era. Even though they are unaware they are natural born enemies...they face their misery side by side with resolve. Yeah it could of been summed up in two pages but the emotion would not be there. Finally these two are on the same side of their pain...(river) and are forming bonds to change this hatred they were born into.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:21 AM   #9
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Re: Naruto_622

Damn I hate it when Kishi impresses me. I'm sorry, but this Madara is a Madara I actually like, a little goofy, but still a Shinobi. Much better than the smug asshole we've always seen up to now. And this flashback is perfectly paced, IMO. Come on, the warring periods have been discussed, but showing the carnage, the loss of siblings, the inability to even tell someone your name for fear of being killed because of it.

I think it's a necessary contrast to show Sasuke, and us the reader, the real difference there is between the warring period and the times of peace we're more accustomed to. Hell, by comparison of what has been shown, the 3rd Shinobi war wasn't so bad.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:21 AM   #10
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Re: Naruto_622

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Five bucks that Itama is related to black zetsu....
Except he's not.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:31 AM   #11
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Re: Naruto_622

History has Uchiha joined the homo clan as allies. Now you know why Sasuke, Madara, Obito, Itachi are faggots.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:40 AM   #12
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Re: Naruto_622

whats interesting to note is that madara seems more like naruto than hashirama does
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:46 AM   #13
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Re: Naruto_622

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And again... you must be kidding, especially your last paragraph. All of Naruto's predecessors witnessed pain and suffering. Naruto experienced the shit first-hand.
Small difference. Naruto's predecessors all grew up in times of war. Naruto did not.

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Fuck, based on his life before he was acknowledged by the village, he was a textbook case for depression (everyone despised him; unknowingly his parents sacrificed themselves for his life, also creating the reason why he was despised by the village; and Sarutobi really f'ed him over by never really informing of him about his parents... fuck... it seems like Tsunade and Jiraya weren't going to do it either).
Welcome to junior high and high school for all of the "nerdy" kids, or anyone that doesn't belong in the "popular" groups. He wasn't being acknowledged by the other villagers? Big fucking deal. Hashirama/Jiraiya/Itachi/Nagato all witnessed people close to them getting killed. It fucked Itachi up so much that he turned to pacifism, or the other extreme of genocide, to maintain a semblance of peace. Naruto was too fucking young for even a repressed memory of his parents getting killed.

Quote:
You can make the same argument for Sasuke, finding out that your family was murdered and you were spared by your brother, who mind-fucked you into thinking he did it, all so you would become stronger and try to kill the motherfucker (Itachi's only downfall IMHO)????
Another difference between Naruto and Sasuke. Sasuke is old enough to have witnessed his parents being killed. And Itachi didn't mind rape Sasuke into thinking he did it, he fucking did it to keep the village safe. The reasons for it are the only things that were changed.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:54 AM   #14
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Re: Naruto_622

They actually spent an entire chapter on them as children and no bad ass battle sequences? ...WTF?!
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:55 AM   #15
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Re: Naruto_622

Poor Itama.. shortest debut in shonen history.. what was that revealed and killed within 3 pages
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