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Old 02-27-2013, 01:55 AM   #16
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Re: Naruto_622

Now that I think about it, the whole Will of Fire thing makes a lot more sense now. Hashirama wasn't just trying to espouse a philosophy of peace-bringing and camaraderie; he was trying to prevent future generations from facing the life he had to when they were just children.

Again, why the everloving shit didn't Kishi tell this story sooner? Why couldn't Hashirama's legacy have been more of a goddamned thing before?
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:01 AM   #17
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Re: Naruto_622

Figures. Naruto has a shitty week and Bleach suddenly has a good one for the first time in like 50 chapters or more. It'd be nice if they could both have an awesome week at the same time.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:05 AM   #18
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Re: Naruto_622

bro this was a good week. the only thing that strikes me as odd is hashirama and tobirama backed itama up and he still died
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:07 AM   #19
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Re: Naruto_622

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bro this was a good week. the only thing that strikes me as odd is hashirama and tobirama backed itama up and he still died
they arrived late....it is not odd....plus who knows what would of happened if they fought against the four adults from the Uchiha clan.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:08 AM   #20
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Re: Naruto_622

Words fail me for how bad I think this chapter is. It's a little jarring when you build up a character to be some kind of sadistic, all-powerful psychopath and turns out he was a goofy little brat and matures rather quickly, in this case Madara. So, now Kishimoto has the fun task of explaining what makes Madara go all warpath on everybody while satisfying the fans (spoiler, explanation's gonna suck and only ardent fanboys are gonna eat that shit up). Hashirama... Not sure how to feel about that. I get that he's supposed to be real mature since kids are dying and all, but I can't help but think it's rushed. I think that's the problem with this flashback. It's trying to cover way too much ground. It'd be better if it took a Kakashi Gaiden route.

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Hey there boys and girls, what's happening here is called In Medias Res. The flashback started smack dab in the middle of the action before moving into the actual beginning of the flashback (and it will subsequently build up back into the action). This is a relatively common fucking thing. It's not inherently shitty writing, it's not actually badly paced at all yet.
Problem is, Kishimoto used in medias res in a poor manner. Personally, if I was going to pull this crap, I'd show a little of the Madara/Hashirama battle, probably up to the point where Kyuubi was covered with Susano'o, then have Hashirama go, "THIS REMINDS ME OF THAT ONE TIME" and then cut to the flashback. That way, when the kids are done talking like grown-ups, we can cut back to the battle of epic proportions and show the audience how much the characters are supposed to have grown between then and now.

As it is, this flashback is just dragging its feet. Oh, so there's a third brother aaand look at that, he's crying and dead already because kids are teh suck at war! Oh, and the Uchiha killed him, faaantastic, not like we saw any of this coming. Just skip the bullshit and show us what we need to know and get back to Hashirama's explanation to Sasuke about whatever so we can carry on with this terrible manga.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:24 AM   #21
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by Emissary of Justice View Post
Figures. Naruto has a shitty week and Bleach suddenly has a good one for the first time in like 50 chapters or more. It'd be nice if they could both have an awesome week at the same time.
how does revealing something about Ichigo that everyone already shit on makes it a better shit..
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:31 AM   #22
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Re: Naruto_622

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how does revealing something about Ichigo that everyone already shit on makes it a better shit..
thank you....i was thinking the same thing lol
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:58 AM   #23
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Re: Naruto_622

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Words fail me for how bad I think this chapter is. It's a little jarring when you build up a character to be some kind of sadistic, all-powerful psychopath and turns out he was a goofy little brat and matures rather quickly, in this case Madara. So, now Kishimoto has the fun task of explaining what makes Madara go all warpath on everybody while satisfying the fans (spoiler, explanation's gonna suck and only ardent fanboys are gonna eat that shit up). Hashirama... Not sure how to feel about that. I get that he's supposed to be real mature since kids are dying and all, but I can't help but think it's rushed. I think that's the problem with this flashback. It's trying to cover way too much ground. It'd be better if it took a Kakashi Gaiden route.
I agree with the sentiment that it's rushed, hence the complaining that it was put off for so long. For Madara I wouldn't be surprised if he and Hashirama both find out one another's surnames at the same time, probably in the context of a battle going on. Hashirama will continue to see Madara for the person, rather than as simply "the enemy" while Madara will be unable to forgive Hashirama for the pains the Senju have brought him blah blah boring shit.

Quote:
Problem is, Kishimoto used in medias res in a poor manner. Personally, if I was going to pull this crap, I'd show a little of the Madara/Hashirama battle, probably up to the point where Kyuubi was covered with Susano'o, then have Hashirama go, "THIS REMINDS ME OF THAT ONE TIME" and then cut to the flashback. That way, when the kids are done talking like grown-ups, we can cut back to the battle of epic proportions and show the audience how much the characters are supposed to have grown between then and now.
I think Kishi was paying a price of decent writing for hype in the form of the Sage Buddha Thing. 621 could have easily transitioned to the childhood period at the lame "made it to the opposite shore" line. It probably would have been better for Hashirama having to resign himself to killing Madara after we saw them bonding over philosophical shit. What's done is done, not well, but could have been so much worse.

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As it is, this flashback is just dragging its feet. Oh, so there's a third brother aaand look at that, he's crying and dead already because kids are teh suck at war! Oh, and the Uchiha killed him, faaantastic, not like we saw any of this coming. Just skip the bullshit and show us what we need to know and get back to Hashirama's explanation to Sasuke about whatever so we can carry on with this terrible manga.
At least the thing with Itama makes Hashirama's philosophical bullshit have more merit to it (and absolves him of being self-righteous as shit since we hadn't seen him really "lose" anyone where Madara had previously). The character was obviously the chapter's redshirt (for fuck's sake his hair was the intermediate between Hashirama and Tobirama, couldn't we be SLIGHTLY creative?), but the purpose was served.

As I was saying earlier, this is basically all building up to Hashirama explaining the "true essence" of the Will of Fire or some shit. Because it's going to be Itachi's "will of fire" passed down to Sasuke that inevitably makes him go full care-bear.

I'm slightly willing to forgive this because it's more chapters about the previous ninja wars and shit which were actually fucking interesting, unlike the FOURTH SHINOBI WAR's bullshit.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:19 AM   #24
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Re: Naruto_622

What is this bullshit? I thought Madara was supposed to be younger & looked up to Hashirama? This chapter paints it as the other way around. Like Hashirama is looking up to Madara & getting advice from him.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:21 AM   #25
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Re: Naruto_622

To be honest, I liked this chapter by taking it as a self-contained one. It had the vibe of peril and despair that the travesty of the Fourth War lacked. I'd take Naruto's messiah prophecy bullshit seriously if this was what happened from chapter 400 and forward and not the fake slaughter of Invasion of Pain or Kishi finally killing characters when the war is fucking over via the hilariously bad eldritch abomination. And I did like to know that there were more siblings of both Madara and Hashirama, it makes them more human and bitchslaps the fantards for thinking Senju and Uchiha are somehow infallible.

Now, taking into account the sequence the chapter came from, I have to agree with LN: this is just milking the shit out of these two characters by stepping on the dragging pedal and the flashback was poorly done. It seems Kishi doesn't know how to pull in media res.

So, taking everything into account, it's a good chapter that only suffers from its framing.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:29 AM   #26
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Re: Naruto_622

kael thanks for the link you are right again, i totally forgot when they explained that i saw the bi-colored hair and suddenly jumped to conclusions lol, well i only bet 5 not a big loss :P
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:34 AM   #27
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Re: Naruto_622

Welp, if we are going to learn how the village came to be and etc I really hope they eventually bring in the Namikaze Clan, it would be a good lead in on the 4th as well.
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1. Naruto's act 1 was really good

2. Part Two started off alright, it introduced new characters and it continued to show the same potential, honestly, the story had a lot of promise up until the Pain Arc.

3. Pain Arc occurs and all Leaf ninja are revived after they were slaughtered, this started the failing of Kishi because he won't kill off main charcters.

4. Kage Summit was a tad disappointing simply because we didn't see any of the charcters that SHOULD have been introduced during the chuunin exams.

5. The War has been epicly disappointing because Kishi is killing off Edo's in a matter of one chapter when each edo (Kages, Swordsman, Nagato and Itachi) when they should get around 4 or 5 chapters of dedication.

Kishi started cutting the story shorter, his chapters have gotten shorter from 21 pages to 17 per week,

Now if you don't like this reasoning, you can simply go to another forum.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:19 AM   #28
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Re: Naruto_622

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/19584373/1
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:45 AM   #29
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Re: Naruto_622

At least we know Madara HAD 4 total brothers, and Hara 2.

So lets see Tobirama, Dude lost at least 3 prior to Izuna passing. While Hara and the 2nd lost 1 brother, easy to say Madara's EMO, he lost a lot more. Btw Hara's Dad seemed a lot like Sasuke/Itachi's Dad.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:29 AM   #30
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Re: Naruto_622

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At least we know Madara HAD 4 total brothers, and Hara 2.

So lets see Tobirama, Dude lost at least 3 prior to Izuna passing. While Hara and the 2nd lost 1 brother, easy to say Madara's EMO, he lost a lot more. Btw Hara's Dad seemed a lot like Sasuke/Itachi's Dad.
Hashi and Second I thought lost two brothers. Kawarama and Itama...They all have the ama endings..which I am not sure if that was custom back then or now. I don't even know if AMA means anything but Hashirama, Tobirama, Kawarama and Itama. Yeah Hashi's dad is like Sasukes and Naruto's....real fucking shinobi...who die on the battlefield...who do not cry....who live to fight and love their kids by insuring them proper training. He was strict but his compassion was to be understood. He fights out of respect but believes the Uchiha are not like the Senju...

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