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Old 02-27-2013, 01:01 PM   #46
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Re: Naruto_622

Might be boring as fuck because nobody cares for this manga anymore, but this atmosphere and writing beat anything Kishimoto wrote during the whole war. That was a war. Hashirama is a troubled kid amidst all that. Good writing. Naruto is a loudmouth moron who can't say anything past : ILL SAVE THEM ALL LUUL, ILL BEAT U TO A PULP LUUL and that is NOT a war. It's the whole world vs alien invasion and two jerks who want to "change the world for the better by killing everybody".
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:15 PM   #47
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
ZOMG, this chapter was soooooooo boring, who cares about Kishimoto finally writing about an era the fans were always interested about, addressing the child soldier issue without the "it's Shounen" excuse, portraying actual stress and despair without either suppressing it with flashy bangs or exaggerate it just for the sake of dramaz and, most revealing of all, Hashirama and Madara having a friendship that makes Naruto and Sasuke's look like the crap it really is.

Gee, how dare Kishimoto write decently for once, we all just want to see Mito barging in the fight for no goddamn good reason other than someone's poor literacy and see Madara holding back on the fight despite the manga saying the complete opposite!

For fuck's sake, some people don't really deserve the few good chapters of this part of the manga.
I still like how he's holding to the thought that Madara was holding back against Hashirama, when the opposite has been shown in the previous chapter. Madara points out that it was a fight to the death (and not the lol"someone accidentally dies" definition) and Hashirama claimed "I don't want to kill you!"
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:27 PM   #48
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Re: Naruto_622

@ KYF: why cut back to the "battle we have been waiting for" if the average reader has no decent connection to the characters that take part of it? Yes, Kishi's handling of the pace and framing of the flashback has been clumsy, but for the first fucking time ever since he was introduced, Madara was a character and not some two-dimensional twat throwing boring boasts and cry about how good the old days were. Sure, some of his characterization was tied in with Kishi's awkward humor of late, but it's something, not the barren nothing Madara was before.

And I'll be honest: I don't care about Godzilla-level of fighting since it's fucking boring. It's pretty much about who produces the flashiest attack and not a proper fight with parrying wits and strategy. So when the author finally offers the choice between a boring, fast-paced flashy fight and a slow flashback giving insight to an era we've all wondering about, I'll take the later without a second thought. And for once in many months I actually enjoyed reading every speech bubble and taking a close look at every panel instead of going "ugggh" and skip a chunk of the pew pew pew and wooden dialog that plagues the more recent chapters.

Adding to that, I'm incredibly pleased about how well-thought Hashirama and Madara's friendship is compared to what should be the prominent one (Naruto and Sasuke's). We actually see them talk with each other about their hopes and woes like friends would do, unlike Naruto and Sasuke who share a bond based on who's dick is biggest. Furthermore, their friendship and how it'll break reminds me of the Fox and the Hound, which is a lot stronger in narrative than Naruto hyperventilating over his Sasuke-kun.

That said, you can prefer battles to actual characterization and plot if that's your preference, but it'll only make you look like a tween boy who only reads comics for the pictures.

PS: har har har, gay ad hominem. Gee, you must be the innovator of whatever hick town you live in for employing a dead horse of a personal insult and expect it to work! I'm just ticked off by your need of attacking me personally instead of my arguments, but whatever. If the thought of me bedding dudes is what gets you off, suit yourself, but keep it to yourself and find a goddamn argument in its place.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:58 PM   #49
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Re: Naruto_622

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For fuck's sake, some people don't really deserve the few good chapters of this part of the manga.
Problem is this wasn't a good chapter. Both Madara & Hashirama are being painted as two different facets of Naruto's persona. Madara being the loud obnoxious Naruto while Hashirama being the kinder side of Naruto. It's totally stupid & is an unnecessary retcon. Originally Hashirama was supposed to be several years older than Madara & they met when they were teens/young adults. Now they're the same age & best of friends? Also where the hell is Izuna in all this has he had a single line during this BS flashback? Totally fucking gay.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:23 PM   #50
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Re: Naruto_622

@ Vengeance: you're still pissed at Kishimoto retconning his timeline? Tobi is Obito, obviously the timeline is no longer an issue in Kishimoto's mind.

1) It wasn't this chapter that made the retcon, it was the previous one, so don't place blame where it doesn't belong.

2) Hashirama's personality wasn't this chapter's doing, it was already presented to us in chapter 619. And Kishimoto made it pretty clear he was going to mirror Naruto in Hashirama, so getting flustered because it actually happened it's kind of naive.

3) Izuna was Madara's younger brother, so it's unknown if he was a shinobi by this time. Also, I think we'll see Izuna pretty soon considering the sibling line, explaining why Madara was so attached to his brother.

This chapter is flawed, certainly, but that doesn't make it a bad chapter. On the contrary, it has so many goodies it's bound to be good. Considering the manga we're reading, I dare say it's the best chapter we had since June.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:50 PM   #51
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Re: Naruto_622

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Words fail me for how bad I think this chapter is. It's a little jarring when you build up a character to be some kind of sadistic, all-powerful psychopath and turns out he was a goofy little brat and matures rather quickly, in this case Madara. So, now Kishimoto has the fun task of explaining what makes Madara go all warpath on everybody while satisfying the fans (spoiler, explanation's gonna suck and only ardent fanboys are gonna eat that shit up). Hashirama... Not sure how to feel about that. I get that he's supposed to be real mature since kids are dying and all, but I can't help but think it's rushed. I think that's the problem with this flashback. It's trying to cover way too much ground. It'd be better if it took a Kakashi Gaiden route.
Actually, he doesn't. We've been told very recently by the dead Hokages that the Sharingan, as it is used and higher levels are activated, poisons the mind of the user, turning them into beings of hate. They have to seal off their "Love" or some shit like that - I'd prefer to think of it as traumatic events that scar the user, unlocking power but making them more dead inside.

In any case, we will soon be told taht Madara and Hashirama contrive a plot to bring piece by rising to the tops of their clans and uniting them into the Village of Konoha. Boom, peace... except that to do so Madara has to take the eyes of his brother and that sacrifice eventually poisons him into the evil bastard that he now is.

Of course, that completely ignores the earlier chapters that said these two fought each other countless times and that some level of animosity existed between them... which clearly isn't the case. They're both saying the same thing and look like about to be friends. So, revisionist history, I guess. We'll see.

Anyway, upcoming bullshit of Madara's brother giving him the eyes to attain peace rather than taking them to attain power.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:59 PM   #52
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Re: Naruto_622

@Num

You're right, as a stand alone chapter, it is the best one since Kabuto's flashback. Fitting in the timeline however.... fuck it.

Also, about the Godzilla level battles... they don't transition that well onto paper, but do transition well onto the tube. If the anime is allowed to continue on, this will be one of the best episodes, fighting-wise (and probably humorous as well... remember ape/pig-faced Yahiko-Pein?).
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:21 PM   #53
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Re: Naruto_622

They passed Godzilla mode when the Kages saw Perfect Susanno, IMHO... since then they've gone bigger by Harashirma's Summons, and also Jyuubi... bigger is coming.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:29 PM   #54
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Re: Naruto_622

Madara and Hashirama will fight once they learn each others' surnames that is a given. But I think their rivarly will be unique because they started off as friends, and I think since they know each other's personal goals makes their future encounters on the battlefield far more intense.

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Old 02-28-2013, 01:32 AM   #55
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Re: Naruto_622

^ and probably, they will be trying to avoid killing one another (at a subconscious level), since at the back of their head, they're already planning an alliance.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:54 AM   #56
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Re: Naruto_622

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how does revealing something about Ichigo that everyone already shit on makes it a better shit..
Do speak for yourself. I expected something more absurd anyways. Provided it's handled well, I'm fine with it.

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Tobi is Obito, obviously the timeline is no longer an issue in Kishimoto's mind.
LOL. This is gonna be one of those forever butthurt things isn't it? The timeline was not harmed.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:47 AM   #57
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Re: Naruto_622

Not a bleach thread here but yeah the last page was good enough.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:04 AM   #58
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Re: Naruto_622

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@Num

You're right, as a stand alone chapter, it is the best one since Kabuto's flashback. Fitting in the timeline however.... fuck it.

Also, about the Godzilla level battles... they don't transition that well onto paper, but do transition well onto the tube. If the anime is allowed to continue on, this will be one of the best episodes, fighting-wise (and probably humorous as well... remember ape/pig-faced Yahiko-Pein?).
JH- I am looking forward to the anime. If they continue on like they did the Power 1-5 short filler series I will enjoy the outcome. Agreed on paper some of the recent artwork just was like meh...but on the screen it will melt like butter on Lobster...Looking forward to so many encounters..Madara vs the Alliance (very soon) Kakashi vs Obito, Madara vs Naruto (after Raikage battle, brief encounter) Madara vs Five Kages, I honestly only want to see Obito + Madara vs Alliance..after they cut their connection from the Juubi....Lastly....the skirmishes that led up to the most epic battle to date....Hashi vs Madara....Man I hope the animation team pulls these beastly fights off.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:06 AM   #59
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Re: Naruto_622

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LOL. This is gonna be one of those forever butthurt things isn't it? The timeline was not harmed.
I don't always side with Num, but you've got to be f'n kidding here, right? Hell, this was like the only subject that Num, kael.... everybody (including KYF) agreed with (if memory serves correct). When Kishi drew that flashback chapter of Obito when he was revealed to be Tobi, the timeline (shit) hit the fan. It wasn't the atrociousness of the how the fuck was Obito able to do what he fucking did to an Anbu Corps as well as Minato in the span of 3 fucking years, or the fact that whole brainwashing the Mizukage happened (which still has been unanswered I think)... but Kishi shat all over his timeline that he created in part 1.

We may not necessarily like the fact that Obito is Tobi, but any and every author should at least keep their shit consistent and within the restraints and parameters they set forth almost a decade ago.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:02 AM   #60
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Re: Naruto_622

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LOL. This is gonna be one of those forever butthurt things isn't it? The timeline was not harmed.
This is gonna be one of those forever faulty apologetics things, isn't it? The timeline WAS harmed with canonical evidence of such.

Chapter 599 ALONE it had 3 instances of the timeline being utterly broken (Minato being on the Hokage Mountain before becoming Hokage, Kakashi and Obito being on the same Chuunin Exam and Anko being at the same time) and 602 has another (Madara awakening the Rinnegan after Nagato supposedly had it implanted). I won't even bother with other twists of the timeline that are more subjective, like Akatsuki's formation, the Blood Mist era and others where the timeline is particularly amorphous.

But now that I remember, back then I was counting out timeline breaks and other plot holes and you AGREED they were so and you even said you preferred that way. Short memory or you're so up the wazoo with your apologetics you don't even know what the fuck you're talking about?

@edit: j_H, we may not agree with each other on many things, but at least your arguments aren't stupid and you don't contradict yourself, so I do really like to discuss with you about things.
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