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Old 02-28-2013, 12:41 PM   #61
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
@ Vengeance: you're still pissed at Kishimoto retconning his timeline? Tobi is Obito, obviously the timeline is no longer an issue in Kishimoto's mind.
Does that mean we shouldn't care whenever Kishi decides to retcon something?

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
1) It wasn't this chapter that made the retcon, it was the previous one, so don't place blame where it doesn't belong.
So Madara having a similar personality to Naruto wasn't done in this chapter? What about Hashirama looking up to Madara as previously mentioned?

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2) Hashirama's personality wasn't this chapter's doing, it was already presented to us in chapter 619. And Kishimoto made it pretty clear he was going to mirror Naruto in Hashirama, so getting flustered because it actually happened it's kind of naive.
Again what about Madara mirroring Naruto? Since you know that's one of the main things I mentioned in my previous post.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
3) Izuna was Madara's younger brother, so it's unknown if he was a shinobi by this time.
Madara & Izuna were shown to be of similar age & grew into the ranks of Uchiha together. There's no reason why we should assume that he wasn't a shinobi during this time.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Also, I think we'll see Izuna pretty soon considering the sibling line, explaining why Madara was so attached to his brother.
We should have seen him already which is my point.

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This chapter is flawed, certainly, but that doesn't make it a bad chapter.
But it is a bad chapter.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
On the contrary, it has so many goodies it's bound to be good.
Goodies like what exactly? Completely ripping off of Basilisk's plot? The Senju are the Kouga while the Uchiha are the Iga. & Yes that is me implying that Hashirama is Gennosuke while Madara is Oboro.

PS: Encase anyone doesn't get the reference read/watch Basilisk & you'll notice that the Hashirama/Madara meeting is a clear copy of how Gennosuke & Oboro met. They're even by a river for crying out loud lmao.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Considering the manga we're reading, I dare say it's the best chapter we had since June.
Ummm no just no. Two chapters ago was a better chapter than this. You know right before they actually started this bullshit flashback?
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

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Last edited by Vengeance; 02-28-2013 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:01 PM   #62
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
It wasn't the atrociousness of the how the fuck was Obito able to do what he fucking did to an Anbu Corps as well as Minato in the span of 3 fucking years
It's called an incredibly overpowered MS and Obito never landed a single blow against Minato.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
602 has another (Madara awakening the Rinnegan after Nagato supposedly had it implanted).
It's stated that Madara had already awakened the Rinnegan and left them to Nagato in that chapter. That's a far cry from Madara having his Rinnegan then when Nagato should've had it.

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Chapter 599 ALONE it had 3 instances of the timeline being utterly broken (Minato being on the Hokage Mountain before becoming Hokage, Kakashi and Obito being on the same Chuunin Exam and Anko being at the same time)
Oh, definitely, but those problems are independent from the reveal of Tobi being Obito itself.

I chalked up the Hokage Mountain issue to a simple drawing mistake on Kishi's part. Kakashi's graduation and promotion ages were retconned, but I had no qualms with it as it never made sense considering his teammates. You're initially required to take the exam alongside your teammates unless there are special circumstances. For Kakashi to wind up teamed with Obito and Rin, they'd have to have graduated the academy together.

Anko's only two years younger than Kakashi and I wouldn't put it Orochimaru doing something like that to test his students.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:20 PM   #63
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by Emissary of Justice View Post
Anko's only two years younger than Kakashi and I wouldn't put it Orochimaru doing something like that to test his students.
Actually Anko is supposed to be 6 years younger than Kakashi. Kakashi supposedly became a chunin at the age of 6. Meaning Anko wasn't even born when Kakashi became a chunin.

Also in regards to Obito & Kakashi the fuck up is with Obito's age. They're the same age yet Kakashi became a chunin before Obito even graduated from the academy? Obito should have been 3 years older than Kakashi in order to make everything fit.

PS: Most of this inaccurate information is based off of the databooks & not the actual manga. Basically what we can gather from this is that the databooks are no longer cannon. So really people should stop using them as a reference & just stick to whats in the actual manga.
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

Wanna join me come and play, but I mite shoot you in your face. Bombs and bullets will do the trick. What we need here is a little bit of panic! ~ Get Jinxed

Last edited by Vengeance; 02-28-2013 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:40 PM   #64
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
Does that mean we shouldn't care whenever Kishi decides to retcon something?
While in the past I'd agree with you, ever since Kishimoto started to write this war arc he retcons his timeline with unreasonable frequency. It's not that I'm giving a free pass to his mistakes, but the timeline is so defaced at this point that I think even Kishimoto himself doesn't think about it outside of "x happened in y generation", even if some mathematics are off.

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So Madara having a similar personality to Naruto wasn't done in this chapter?
Now every kid with a bratty attitude is Naruto? I didn't read any Naruto in Madara, in a matter of fact he reminded me more of Sasuke before the massacre which I believe was Kishimoto's intention to parallel the two main protagonists.

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Madara & Izuna were shown to be of similar age & grew into the ranks of Uchiha together. There's no reason why we should assume that he wasn't a shinobi during this time.
I didn't say I was assuming he wasn't a shinobi during this time, I said it was unknown. I'm giving the benefit of doubt on this one, since Kishimoto could either retcon yet again or he didn't want to write right now about Izuna. Hell, there's a chance of Kishi plain forgetting Izuna for this flashback. So instead of already sounding the trumps of war, just wait until Izuna makes (or not) an appearance.

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We should have seen him already which is my point.
And I agree. You seem to be running under the assumption I'm considering this chapter flawless. It's not flawless, it still has various of Kishi's common hiccups. However, even though I'm critical of Kishimoto's recent writing hackery, I won't concur with the notion of this chapter being bad. Of course it'd be mediocre in some other manga, but on this one the quality of this chapter is clearly superior to your average one.

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Goodies like what exactly? Completely ripping off of Basilisk's plot? The Senju are the Kouga while the Uchiha are the Iga. & Yes that is me implying that Hashirama is Gennosuke while Madara is Oboro.

PS: Encase anyone doesn't get the reference read/watch Basilisk & you'll notice that the Hashirama/Madara meeting is a clear copy of how Gennosuke & Oboro met. They're even by a river for crying out loud lmao.
You do realize that the copy/paste makes the chapter lazy, but not bad or good by that standard itself, right?

Bottom line, could it be better? Hell yes! Was it badly written? Hell no!


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Ummm no just no. Two chapters ago was a better chapter than this. You know right before they actually started this bullshit flashback?
I say the same: no, just no. By no means 620 was a bad chapter, it was fairly decent, but there was actual characterization on this one, which already makes it better than 620.




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It's stated that Madara had already awakened the Rinnegan and left them to Nagato in that chapter. That's a far cry from Madara having his Rinnegan then when Nagato should've had it.
Someone's forgetting Kishimoto showed Madara looking the fucking same as the flashback on an event that was supposed to happen two decades prior. But who cares when you can do apologetics over it?!

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Oh, definitely, but those problems are independent from the reveal of Tobi being Obito itself.
What? Are you fucking serious or you're just that intellectually dishonest? They happened because Tobi is Obito, if he was another character they could or not happen or other mistakes could or not happen in their place. But to deny their link to what spawned them in the first place is either denial or idiocy.

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I chalked up the Hokage Mountain issue to a simple drawing mistake on Kishi's part.
Because you couldn't admit Kishimoto made that mistake and you argued he simply started drawing a whole goddamn face on the basis of "whoops" (making it not a drawing mistake, but rather a plain mistake). At least Kishimoto admitted he forgot about how it was supposed to be and apologized for it in a later magazine, but the damage was done by other timeline bends.

At the rest, what it ought to be =/= what it is, so don't fall for a nirvana fallacy. It was a retcon and the timeline is a mess, fact's simple.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:07 PM   #65
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
While in the past I'd agree with you, ever since Kishimoto started to write this war arc he retcons his timeline with unreasonable frequency. It's not that I'm giving a free pass to his mistakes, but the timeline is so defaced at this point that I think even Kishimoto himself doesn't think about it outside of "x happened in y generation", even if some mathematics are off.
Kishi doesn't give a shit. Naruto is a cash cow manga after all.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Now every kid with a bratty attitude is Naruto? I didn't read any Naruto in Madara, in a matter of fact he reminded me more of Sasuke before the massacre which I believe was Kishimoto's intention to parallel the two main protagonists.
Madara getting all bratty face & competitive with Hashirama screamed Naruto to me. Like how Naruto was always trying to compete with Sasuke Madara was doing the same with Hashirama. Hashirama however had the I don't give a shit attitude which to me reminded me of Sasuke with Rock Lee's personality.

PS: On another note am I the only one who thinks Hashirama is the spitting image of Rock Lee in his younger years? It wouldn't surprise me in the least if we found out that Lee was descended from the Senju.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
I didn't say I was assuming he wasn't a shinobi during this time, I said it was unknown. I'm giving the benefit of doubt on this one, since Kishimoto could either retcon yet again or he didn't want to write right now about Izuna. Hell, there's a chance of Kishi plain forgetting Izuna for this flashback. So instead of already sounding the trumps of war, just wait until Izuna makes (or not) an appearance.
I just think even the slightest showing would have been better than nothing. Like Izuna coming to the river to retrieve Madara because a battle is starting soon.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
You do realize that the copy/paste makes the chapter lazy, but not bad or good by that standard itself, right?

Bottom line, could it be better? Hell yes! Was it badly written? Hell no!
Basilisk plot with a Naruto twist is not only lazy in my eyes but bad as well.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
I say the same: no, just no. By no means 620 was a bad chapter, it was fairly decent, but there was actual characterization on this one, which already makes it better than 620.
Chapter 620 had decent setup to what could have been an interesting flashback. 621 totally removes all hope at this being anything other than more of the same BS. This flashback is totally predictable at this point which makes it uninteresting. I honestly don't give a shit about Hashirama having a brother besides Tobirama.

Speaking of Tobirama, who is even supposed to be the older brother again? What I gathered from this chapter is that Tobirama is actually older than Hashirama?

The only real interesting thing that can come of this is if/when Madara reveals that Izuna & himself killed their own brothers to gain power. Seeing Hashirama's reaction to something like that is something I'd actually like to see. Though Knowing Kishi it probably won't happen. Madara is going to be painted as some ideologist seeking peace until the death of Izuna which will warp his way of thinking. The same Izuna that we still know nothing about.
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Yeah vengeance, if i could giuve rep to your o so epic post too i would, but unfortunately I have already repped your greatness already so i cannot either. Just wanted u to know im on your cock now too
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FOOLS! Time is no obstacle for utter lunacy! Reality is but an illusion that can be ignored if the insane demand it!
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

Wanna join me come and play, but I mite shoot you in your face. Bombs and bullets will do the trick. What we need here is a little bit of panic! ~ Get Jinxed

Last edited by Vengeance; 02-28-2013 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:20 PM   #66
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
@ KYF: why cut back to the "battle we have been waiting for" if the average reader has no decent connection to the characters that take part of it? Yes, Kishi's handling of the pace and framing of the flashback has been clumsy, but for the first fucking time ever since he was introduced, Madara was a character and not some two-dimensional twat throwing boring boasts and cry about how good the old days were. Sure, some of his characterization was tied in with Kishi's awkward humor of late, but it's something, not the barren nothing Madara was before.
Huh? Madara was not a character, now he was portrayed as one finally??? Madara's "character" is the cliche "path to power character", but it is still a character none the less. Madara's Origins does not give him a character, just justify and elaborate on the experiences that drove him to his current character and personality.

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And I'll be honest: I don't care about Godzilla-level of fighting since it's fucking boring. It's pretty much about who produces the flashiest attack and not a proper fight with parrying wits and strategy. So when the author finally offers the choice between a boring, fast-paced flashy fight and a slow flashback giving insight to an era we've all wondering about, I'll take the later without a second thought. And for once in many months I actually enjoyed reading every speech bubble and taking a close look at every panel instead of going "ugggh" and skip a chunk of the pew pew pew and wooden dialog that plagues the more recent chapters.
So madara's and hashirama's battle is just some godzilla level flash-fest of combat? Really??? Because no matter how you feel about either one of the characters. This is the Pinnacle of shinobi abilities, tactics and strategy... Not just a bunch of power being thrown around And is the ultimate kind of battle this manga can offer.
However, you claim to prefer a proper fight with parrying wits and strategy? How is this battle not a proper fight of wits and strategy???

Hashirama's wood dragon bijuudama counter: A very intelligent and effective counter attack against the kyuubi and madara.

Madara wrapping the kyuubi in susanoo: Another intelligent and witty counter, but against hashirama's wood jutsu and ability to control the kyuubi.

Creating a bijuudama then putting a chakra sword in the middle: Another intelligent counter to hashirama's chakra absorbing ability of hashirama's wood element.

And even summoning the three roushomon defense to redirect it: Another intelligent defense to counter and utterly huge and powerful attack.

Everything you explained to desire from a fight, is happening in this one. Accpet it is done with the highest level of power...Yet, you still claim to prefer a drawn out interaction between hashirama and madara. WHY? Learning the origins of madara's and hashirama's relationship is necessary and fine, but when a simple interaction between them is made in more detail then the fight itself, not even using those extra pages to elaborate further into their live's... then there is a problem.

Quote:
Adding to that, I'm incredibly pleased about how well-thought Hashirama and Madara's friendship is compared to what should be the prominent one (Naruto and Sasuke's). We actually see them talk with each other about their hopes and woes like friends would do, unlike Naruto and Sasuke who share a bond based on who's dick is biggest. Furthermore, their friendship and how it'll break reminds me of the Fox and the Hound, which is a lot stronger in narrative than Naruto hyperventilating over his Sasuke-kun.
Well hashirama and madara grew up in two rival clans during war so it is understandable how their relationship would be allot better then the prominent one of naruto and sasuke.
Naruto and sasuke grew up in the same village and even got on the same team which created a form of rivalry. And their only common bond is from the pain of loss as well as hatred. Similar to what hashi amd madara has, but not enough to produce such a good relationship as what hashi and madara had.

Quote:
That said, you can prefer battles to actual characterization and plot if that's your preference, but it'll only make you look like a tween boy who only reads comics for the pictures.
Again, I am not complaining about the character development, only the the way kishi did. Drawing it way out, thus making the chapter boring. Kishi could have at least used one fourth the pages he did to explain what he did about hashi and madara... Even half the chapter at the most which is nine pages plus the three from the chapter before making it 12. However, giving twenty one pages (3 pages of last chapter and entire 18 pages of this one) to the simple interaction between hashirama and madara is way unnecessary considering it got five more pages then the actual fight itself...

Even you agreed it was drawn out which is my only problem with the chapter, so if anything you should have agreed with me instead of randomly attacking me as usual...

Quote:
PS: har har har, gay ad hominem. Gee, you must be the innovator of whatever hick town you live in for employing a dead horse of a personal insult and expect it to work! I'm just ticked off by your need of attacking me personally instead of my arguments, but whatever. If the thought of me bedding dudes is what gets you off, suit yourself, but keep it to yourself and find a goddamn argument in its place.
Lol, it's annoying when someone just attacks you and not your argument now isn't it...

If you do not like it, then why do you do it too? What, you can dish it out, but you cannot take it too? Well now, the you should not use tactics you yourself do not even condone.

And what is worse, I said "NO!"... Taking back what I said, but somehow you missed that part... I was not seriously attacking you personally, just picking at you. Why else would I take it back!?!

Anyways, if you agree the chapter was drawn out then we have nothing more to argue about and makes me wonder why you chose to argue in the first place since the waste of pages due to the interaction being drawn out was my only problem with the chapter.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:36 PM   #67
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
I still like how he's holding to the thought that Madara was holding back against Hashirama, when the opposite has been shown in the previous chapter. Madara points out that it was a fight to the death (and not the lol"someone accidentally dies" definition) and Hashirama claimed "I don't want to kill you!"
You do realize this is from hashirama's Perspective, right... Not madara's!!! And how is discerning the truth of madara's will and intentions from hashirama's perspective, very effective and accurate way of determining what madara was actually "trying to do"???

Hashirama's perspective is merely how he perceived their interactions, relationship and the final battle between them. Which Not capable of explaining what madara was actually trying to accomplish.

Madara claims to want to fight to the death while hashirama claims he does not want to kill him, then lets go of such restraints and goes into Sage mode and summon freaking buddha. But, madara could have been boasting to want to kill hashirama to fool him into believing he wants him dead and even the village for himself.

Plus, it is already confirmed that Madara fought that last battle against hashirama to gain his DNA for experimenting to become the next sage of six paths. And that madara completely fooled hashirama into believing he was beaten and killed by him too.
As well as the fact that madara did not use one Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi against hashirama.

Pretty much, until madara explains the battle from his perspective. You have no way to prove that madara was not holding back to capture hashirama or just take DNA then fake his death.
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

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Old 02-28-2013, 06:31 PM   #68
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
Actually Anko is supposed to be 6 years younger than Kakashi.
That's actually a gross misconception based off the Naruto Wiki. In the first Databook, Kakashi is stated to be 26 and Anko, 24. However since no one ever really gave a flying fuck about her character (Sorry you two Anko fans), no one ever changed the age. That's why her age on the Wiki is only stated as 24 whereas characters people give fucks about like Kakashi gets Part I: 26-27, Part II: 29-30. Anko's actually 28 now.

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Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
Also in regards to Obito & Kakashi the fuck up is with Obito's age. They're the same age yet Kakashi became a chunin before Obito even graduated from the academy? Obito should have been 3 years older than Kakashi in order to make everything fit.
Not really. The different graduation/promotion ages were the fuck up. Kakashi would've been placed on a completely team coming out of the academy and would've been promoted to Chunin alongside them as the exams have to be done as a team.

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Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
Most of this inaccurate information is based off of the databooks & not the actual manga. Basically what we can gather from this is that the databooks are no longer cannon. So really people should stop using them as a reference & just stick to whats in the actual manga.
Not quite. Kakashi's Chunin graduation age was noted in the manga too. Kishi's just realizing some of the stuff he wrote in early on made no sense so he's changing them.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Someone's forgetting Kishimoto showed Madara looking the fucking same as the flashback on an event that was supposed to happen two decades prior. But who cares when you can do apologetics over it?!
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/606/13

That page? Because I sincerely doubt there's a two decade gap there. Yahiko still being alive, Nagato looking about Naruto's age and Obito only being about 13-14.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
What? Are you fucking serious or you're just that intellectually dishonest? They happened because Tobi is Obito, if he was another character they could or not happen or other mistakes could or not happen in their place. But to deny their link to what spawned them in the first place is either denial or idiocy.
That happened because Kishi sometimes can be a bad writer who forgets his own continuity and has to retcon previous fuck ups. Hell, there were only three pages in that chapter that were actually necessary.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Because you couldn't admit Kishimoto made that mistake and you argued he simply started drawing a whole goddamn face on the basis of "whoops" (making it not a drawing mistake, but rather a plain mistake).
Are you really that bothered by the inclusion of the word "drawing" in my acknowledgement of his mistake? If I couldn't admit he made that mistake, I wouldn't refer to it as any form of mistake. It just wasn't that serious to me. The time space continuum wasn't destroyed by that.

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At the rest, what it ought to be =/= what it is, so don't fall for a nirvana fallacy. It was a retcon and the timeline is a mess, fact's simple.
I took it as a retcon to make what it out to be = what it is.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:13 PM   #69
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by Emissary of Justice View Post
Not really. The different graduation/promotion ages were the fuck up. Kakashi would've been placed on a completely team coming out of the academy and would've been promoted to Chunin alongside them as the exams have to be done as a team.
I get what you're stating, because that was stated in the manga back in part 1.... but how the fuck did Sakura become a chuunin then?

Like I said, Kishi fucked up his timeline and parameters he set for his own story back in part 1... over a decade ago.



I hope you get the point I'm trying to make.

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Old 02-28-2013, 09:37 PM   #70
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Re: Naruto_622

Kishi has raeped the timeline multiple times, including Anko's age etc.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:47 AM   #71
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by Emissary of Justice View Post
Not really. The different graduation/promotion ages were the fuck up. Kakashi would've been placed on a completely team coming out of the academy and would've been promoted to Chunin alongside them as the exams have to be done as a team.
I agree that the different graduation/promotion ages were a fuck up. However, they don't have to participate as teams in the Chuunin exams in its entirety. Only the initial exam (if the teacher is sadistic and makes the exam team only), and the Forest of Death are team based. The final tournament can have any number, including 0, get promoted. We've seen Shikamaru as the sole promotion of the only exam we've witnessed, and Sakura was promoted during the time-skip without the rest of team 7.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:25 AM   #72
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Re: Naruto_622

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Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
I get what you're stating, because that was stated in the manga back in part 1.... but how the fuck did Sakura become a chuunin then?

Like I said, Kishi fucked up his timeline and parameters he set for his own story back in part 1... over a decade ago.

I hope you get the point I'm trying to make.
The Chunin Exams did allow for special circumstances regarding that rule. Sakura would've had such a case with Naruto being gone for 3 years and Sasuke's defection. Kakashi just being more awesome than his teammates isn't a special circumstance nor would it account for him being placed with people who graduated around Naruto's age when he was stated to have graduated at 5.
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:14 AM   #73
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Re: Naruto_622

Na man the idea of doing the exam in 3 man teams is just to see how they function in a team situation. This is done to weed out the leaders from the followers so to speak. If one person on your team passes a chunin exam & you don't you need to retake that exam with another team since you didn't pass with your original team. There is no special case with Sakura & there is no all pass or all fail mentality when it comes to the actual exams. The final test is an individual one & has nothing to do with your teams dynamic. Being a chunin means you're allowed to lead a shinobi squad. Obliviously the original team dynamic periodically changes based on who you're assigned missions with which does change from time to time. Examples are apparent throughout the entire manga.

PS: On another totally unrelated note Sangan died today. RIP little dude RIP...


Another victim of the ban list. What? You didn't think I was referring to an actual person did you?
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:29 AM   #74
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Re: Naruto_622

I haven't played Yu-Gi-Oh for ages, but I don't see why Sangan needed to be banned.

And, like others said, it's implied the teams in the Chuunin Exams don't necessarily have to correspond to the Genin teams, so your argument, EoJ, is moot. Now for specific quotes:

EoJ:

Quote:
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/606/13

That page? Because I sincerely doubt there's a two decade gap there. Yahiko still being alive, Nagato looking about Naruto's age and Obito only being about 13-14.
Then you fail at math. Nagato was 41+ when he died, Obito is 31. So when Obito was 13~14, Nagato was 23~24, meaning he had the Rinnegan for almost two decades, hence why the image of Madara being time-warpy. I know Kishimoto isn't perfect at portraying ages, but this is just ludicrous.

Quote:
That happened because Kishi sometimes can be a bad writer who forgets his own continuity and has to retcon previous fuck ups.
My god, your apologetics are eating away your brain, it can only be. What previous fuck ups? Kakashi being particularly young when promoted to Chuunin and way before his teammates? Shikamaru also was promoted before his teammates and that didn't stop him from being on the same team, it only gave him leadership rights and flexibility on teams. I do concede Kakashi's age as contrived, but it's not a continuity fuck up to be retconned.

This goes with what you say later of "ought to be= what it is": that's only your opinion. People can argue the child soldier aspect of the manga and tell you Kakashi's age reflects that aspect with slight exaggeration. So, yet again, it's not a case of the mangaka fucking up previously and now needing a retcon, it's you running on a nirvana fallacy when the mangaka retcons the timeline without really needing it.

PS: you saying Kishimoto is a bad writer and keeping defending his writing when it's atrocious (and not when it's actually good) is deliciously ironic.

Vengeance:

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Kishi doesn't give a shit. Naruto is a cash cow manga after all.
I agree. That's why I no longer question the timeline, unless some idiot thinks it is somehow virgin of fuckery by the author.

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I just think even the slightest showing would have been better than nothing. Like Izuna coming to the river to retrieve Madara because a battle is starting soon.
And I agree, despite what you seem to think. I'm just waiting to criticize when it really needs to be criticized. As of now, it's more of a disappointment than a proper failure.

At the rest, I think it's more about your expectations being a tad too high for the manga. I learned the hard way to properly place the expectations: waiting to just see crap. So by Cthlhu I'll grab to what's not crap in this manga, and this chapter just makes me think Kishimoto still has some semblance of his Part I self somewhere deep in his hackery and executive meddling.

KYF:

Everything you posted, just...


Words fail me to properly express how you don't know what a proper character is, how you don't know when strategy and wit end and pew-pew-pew starts, how you simply miss the point of how friendship is portrayed and start ranting about non-sequitur rationalizations, and how you can't distinguish between dragging and boring.

Oh wait, I guess the words did appear. Will you look at that!

PS: don't be cynic. I'm not stupid to not notice your ad hominem, so stop backpedaling like a pussy. And grab a goddamn book and learn the difference between satire and slander.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:58 AM   #75
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Re: Naruto_622

[QUOTE=Numinous;2135968]
Quote:
KYF:

Everything you posted, just...


Words fail me to properly express how you don't know what a proper character is, how you don't know when strategy and wit end and pew-pew-pew starts, how you simply miss the point of how friendship is portrayed and start ranting about non-sequitur rationalizations, and how you can't distinguish between dragging and boring.
Lol, here we go... You agreed about the OP argument, but now you need another one so you claim I do not know what a "proper" character is...

: OK... A proper character for... What? You claim this is a low class manga now and so you should think more then anyone that Madara is a Proper character for this manga at this point.

I think the word you were looking for is "quality" to be applied to character judging by your context. it's all good, we all make mistakes.

: Strategy and wit, no... Pew pew yes... OK??

Last I checked, strategy is the use of techniques and tactics to achieve a specific objective. And Wit is lets just say intelligent. So the intelligent use of techniques and tactics to achieve a specific objective would be what your looking for in a nut shell.

Well, Hashirama could control his bijuu and use it's power against him, thus he dawned the kyuubi in susanoo to protect it from hashirama's ability to control it while supping up the power of the kyuubi itself using susanoo...
That is an intelligent use of the susanoo technique, the tactic of armored warfare all to achieve the objective of nullifying hashirama's bijuu controlling advantage and defeating hashirama.

Hashirama could not use his wood jutsu and chakra absorbing ability to absorb the bijuudama sword attack from madara. So, hashirama intelligently used the Roushoumon defensive technique and the tactic of redirection to deflect the bijuudama sword in order to achieve the specific objective of NOT DYING!

That is two example of what you want to see yet you claim is not happening... So what exactly are you really looking for if this fight is still not anything other then "pew pew" flash?

: Friendship portrayal?

Well, Judging by your personality and attitude. You are the one lacking in understanding of how a friendship is portrayed.
And again, instead of posting a valid argument, your just trying to label my other statements a "non-sequitur"... Way to make another claim without a single shread of support posted with it.

: Dragging or Boring?

Yea, last I checked, a dragging story can easily be BORING!!! Not sure you understand what "boring" means...
Boring: "Adjective refers to what is so uninteresting as to cause mental weariness. Boring"

A dragging story is easily interpreted as uninteresting thus causing mental weariness. So you clearly have no understand of what "Boring" means judging by your nonsensical statement about distinguishing dragging from Boring, which also again shows your unfailing ability to contradict yourself and prove yourself a Hypocrite.


Quote:
PS: don't be cynic. I'm not stupid to not notice your ad hominem, so stop backpedaling like a pussy. And grab a goddamn book and learn the difference between satire and slander.
Oh really, where? ??? I am waiting!!! Nothing? Well, then why claim such a thing to just miss the part where you provide a basis to support your claim.

And your the one who needs to learn the difference. I am not the one who took my OP joke so personally... As usual! You should know the difference between Satire and Slander... Although Slander is a baseless and completely untrue as well as "about" a person, not directly at them.

By definition you cannot say I am Slandering you when I use the basis of your own behavior and statements to form a possible conclusion that I express to you directly. Not baseless notions expressed to other people directly, in order to harm your reputation.
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