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Old 09-10-2013, 01:41 PM   #16
MrBIG
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

yes, because Tsunade has never gotten bruised or hurt before. /sarcasm

The healing isn't automatic, it's a jutsu that they activate as needed.

AUTOMATIC REGENERATION would be what the kyuubi charka does to Naruto. Naruto has no control on it, it's not his jutsu but a propriety of his very being.

No Hand signs =/= Automatic
Last i've seen, there are no medical ninjutsus that use hand signs.

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  • lol and life energy makes people faster but normal chakra doesn't? Where are you getting this information? Please provide evidence to that claim.
  • You're using the First Hokage vs Madara fight to prove that he was slow? What the hell? Maybe he realized that being fast isn't going to do shit to stop Madara's Kyuubi or Susanoo?


  • The kyuubi chakra probably did increase Minato's speed and strength but it of course wouldn't change the speed of their techniques. (flying thunder god).


  • Minato isn't naturally faster than anyone else, he relies on the flying thunder god technique to be "fast". Which again suffers from the bottleneck that it relies on MInato actually tagging or using kunais to teleport too


What the hell good is SPEED for, when the first can spawn massive forests at will, there would simply be way to much foliage in the way for Minato to be able to use the flying thunder god techniques as an offensive mean.

Harashima would simply continuously spawn trees and control them to block kunais, and continuously change the fighting environment so Minato's Tags are never at the same places he sets them.

That would simply force Minato to get closer without relying on FTG and without that technique Minato is prettymuch more useless than Sasuke is right now in the manga.

Last edited by MrBIG; 09-10-2013 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:44 PM   #17
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

The biggest flaw in KYF's argument is that he assumes that top tiers in this manga can't react to Minato which is absolutely ridiculous. That goes against basic Shonen power hierarchy, and granted this manga's power levels are unbalanced as all shit there is nothing to support the notion that Minato is so infinitely above everyone in speed that they wouldn't have the reactions to battle him.
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:50 PM   #18
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
The Manga PROVES that I am right.... Just accept it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjalostboy95 View Post
and I think that ends the convo, he just said he was right no matter what.
Agreed, ninjalostboy95, no point tying to debate with someone who has convinced himself that the manga PROVES that he is right and that we should just accept it. It would be like trying to offer common sense and evidence to a religious person that their God from their bible doesn't exist when they believe that their bible PROVES that their God does exist. Some people choose to ignore common sense. To many, ignorance is bliss. Some choose to remain ignorant when all evidence points to their ignorance, and others are just naturally ignorant. Just like some choose to be ignorant and ignore common sense that the bible is full of a bunch of made-up stories and contradicts itself and scientific evidence, KYF chooses to be ignorant and ignore common sense on this topic.

My wife, who, for whatever reason, I have not yet slept with, is pregnant with the son of God. I built an ark, and two of every animal around the world came to live on it for 40 days and nights, and none of them starved to death, and none of them ate one another. God made animals, man, and everything else in the wold within 7 days, but the dinosaurs were proven to be here long before man ever existed.
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:53 PM   #19
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBIG View Post
yes, because Tsunade has never gotten bruised or hurt before. /sarcasm

The healing isn't automatic, it's a jutsu that they activate as needed.
LAMO, yea, keep trying to convince yourself of that...

Quote:
AUTOMATIC REGENERATION would be what the kyuubi charka does to Naruto. Naruto has no control on it, it's not his jutsu but a propriety of his very being.
LMFAO, thanks for proving my point. The power of the Kyuubi is just like hashirama's which is why they react to each other. Yet, somehow Kyuubi's power automatically heals, but hashirama using the same type or power does not...

Look at Karin UZUMAKI with her automatic regeneration. Look at those who suck on her chakra to heal wounds automatically and hashirama SENJU with the same power and bloodline of the Uzumaki... does the same thing...

Quote:
No Hand signs =/= Automatic
Last i've seen, there are no medical ninjutsus that use hand signs.
Oh geez, if one uses hand signs to willingly activate healing then if a shinobi doe snot have to even use hand sign, then they are able to AUTOMATICALLY heal... WHat is so hard about this... the mental gymnastics is legendary...
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Quote:
[LIST][*]lol and life energy makes people faster but normal chakra doesn't? Where are you getting this information? Please provide evidence to that claim.
1). Naruto's KCM is full of pure life energy known to activate the body, thus reflexes and then suddenly naruto moves very fast... not a damn coincidence...
[IMG][/IMG]

2). Normal chakra does not activate the body in the way Life energy or nature energy does. Now, the more chakra you have, the more you can put into your shushin.
However, despite having a Bijuu chakra close to Kurama powering his shushin. Minato with the power of about base naruto was able to move WAY faster then hashirama....

3). Reflexes level correlates with levle of physical speed. Minato's reflexes are known to be like a flash and just happens to be super fast physically with a shushin so fast he disappears and reappears as well as allowed Minato to beat hashirama, tobirama and hiruzen by 30 seconds or more to the battle field... That is ALLOT faster...

And guess what the 2nd fastest shinobi of all time is known for? His REFLEXES!!! His reflexes are already quick, but, by dawing himself in Lightning chakra which activates his nervous system and reflexes. Raikage is able to move even faster...
And the more lightning chakra he uses on himself, the more his nervous system and reflexes are increased, the faster he becomes, thus why going V1-v2 allows Raikage to move even faster...

CONCLUSION:
REFLEXES Determine speed more then anything in the manga. Not raw chakra level. Hashirama himself proves that...

Quote:
[*]You're using the First Hokage vs Madara fight to prove that he was slow? What the hell? Maybe he realized that being fast isn't going to do shit to stop Madara's Kyuubi or Susanoo?
have you forgotten the taijutsu battle before the huge scale jutsu battle here:
and the taijutsu battle after the huge scale jutsu battle. Each time was ONLY able to evenly move with Madara, who could not even begin to compete with V1 raikage any better then C2 Juugo did....


And if Edo Madara (with hashirama's chakra level Plus his EMS Original level) thinks V1 raikage is very FAST and Hashirama' speed/reflexes=EMS madara's as shown in many battles...
Minato at base without hiraishin would be too much for hashirama, much less using Hiraishin to competely overwhelm and hit hashi at will..


Quote:
[*]The kyuubi chakra probably did increase Minato's speed and strength but it of course wouldn't change the speed of their techniques. (flying thunder god).
minato's speed/reflexes, strength, power, ect has not increased since going KCM for some reason. Even now while he is out of chakra, he is still in KCM showing there is a problem...

Quote:
[*] Minato isn't naturally faster than anyone else, he relies on the flying thunder god technique to be "fast". Which again suffers from the bottleneck that it relies on MInato actually tagging or using kunais to teleport too
LMAO, Minato's REFLEXES and PHYSICAL SPEED are so high level, he Beat hashirama, tobiram and hiruzen by more then 30 seconds in a race with shushin...
Minato's Shushin is so fast that he Disappears then reappears in a perceived Instant as shown here:

Minato's reflexes are so fast, they are compared to a damn FLASH of light...

And yet you think ONLY Hirahsin is why mInato is special and fast lol. You need to read the manga geez...

Quote:
What the hell good is SPEED for, when the first can spawn massive forests at will, there would simply be way to much foliage in the way for Minato to be able to use the flying thunder god techniques as an offensive mean.
Due to the throwing speed of his Kunai (minato was able to throw a Kunai to the sea form the ucrrent battle field in a matter of sceonds, fucking fast!!)
Minato can use FTG level 2 to get above the battle field, use his snesing skills to find the real hashiram and use another FTG level 2 to instant blitz him either tagging him for the eventual win or killing him with that attack...

Minato cna also use kage bushin's who can all use the FTG, have their own Kunai ect. SO mInato can put Kunai's and tags all over the place and lead hashirama to one coupled with the already placed tag around the fire country as well as other countries form previous battle (because the tags never go away), therefore, minato has a many country range to teleport to, to avoid any large scale attack of hashirama's... Even his buddha summon...

Not to mention that hashirama does not start off with his most powerful attacks at once. ANd Even the time it takes to form the hand seal, Minato can already teleport to him, tag him or kill him... Either way, SPeed beats power...

Quote:
Harashima would simply continuously spawn trees and control them to block kunais, and continuously change the fighting environment so Minato's Tags are never at the same places he sets them.

That would simply force Minato to get closer without relying on FTG and without that technique Minato is prettymuch more useless than Sasuke is right now in the manga.
Changing the environment and covering it with trees will only keep FTG level 1 from being effective.
However, FTG level 2 (throwing a kuani and teleporting to it and so on) coupled with the amazing kunai throwing speed base mInato has, allows Minato to reach hashirama before he can even create a single branch. SO how are trees and branches going to block something moving so fast not even hashirama can keep up with them?

And by moving around the tags Minato places, hashirama has to keep track of those tags because if he loses track and moves right by one, he is fucked...
Adding in the fact that Minato can create just 15 kage Bushin's that can all do waht he can, plus come with their own special Kunai would utterly overwhelm hashirama meaning there is NO WAY Hashirama will not at least get TOUCHED which is all it takes for MInato to beat hashirama due to the fact his healing cannot help against organ/damage...
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:00 PM   #20
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
The biggest flaw in KYF's argument is that he assumes that top tiers in this manga can't react to Minato which is absolutely ridiculous. That goes against basic Shonen power hierarchy, and granted this manga's power levels are unbalanced as all shit there is nothing to support the notion that Minato is so infinitely above everyone in speed that they wouldn't have the reactions to battle him.
LMFAO, and yet the manga proves my Claims are not assumptions at all...

EXHIBIT A:
V2 supermode raikage with the greatest reflexes next to mInato was unable to react at all, left completley open to attack and would have been fucked if his brother did not help him...
Minato was able to read the attack, react lobbing a Kunai in the air, react sening a tree Kunai and teleporting to it, react again sensing the Kunai he lobbed in the air teleporting back to it, grabbing the lobbed Kunai, then grabbing it with another hand setting it up for a double hand kunai thrust to Rai's lower spine, then a tentacle shows up forcing mInato to Kick the raikage using him as a launching pad to avoid the tentacle and place a tag on it while slicing it in half so hard when it hit the ground, it created a Small crater...

All of that happened in the INSTANT it takes V2 Supermode Raikage to full power, full speed SHUSHIN just a couple FEET which proves his CRAZY fast MInato really is, shown here:


EXHIBIT B:
Minato is so damn fast that Kishi had to have MInato Blitz attack KB, but STOP HIS ATTACK RIGHT BEFORE LANDING IT and then announce to everyone "I cannot fail" giving away his position and element of surprise just so KB could react and put up a defense and look good LMFAO!!!

EXHIBIT C:
Obito, with the Ultimate defense able to avoid ANY attack from anyone with high reflexes and easily on hashirama and madara's level as a shinobi.
High tier to say the least.
And yet th eobito that fought Minato, wearing a full hashirama clone body suit that ehnaced all his abilities, Minato easily hit him using FTG level 2 because he was not tagged yet.
Then, after tagging him. Was able to at will Hit Enhanced Obito at will before obito could even react to use his Kamui displacement defense which no one had ever done before and then again just recently because minato is just that DAMN FAST!!!


Minato Put it best about the way he uses his jutsu, not just his new jutsu he was going to use. "Hits them BEFORE they can REACT" and he was referring to V1 Juubito that was crazy fast too... So Must be really fucking FAST...


CONCLUSION:
Yes, Minato is so much faster that he is able to own some of the fastest and strongest such as Full hashirama clone body suit MS Obito, Kyuubi, V2 raikage, Killer B and was about to V1 Juubito until sympathy got in the way...

ANd yet you claimed top tier can react to Minato's speed with the actual REFLEXES to do so LMAO... I mean, When V2 Raikage who has reflexes beyond any other shinobi ever (other then mInato) was unable to react to Minato's speed yet avoid amaterasu easily.

It should have made it clear just how deadly minato is with such a speed level to hit the enemy before they can even react.

ALL YOU ARE DOING IS COMMITTING AN APPEAL TO TRADITION FALLACY DAG. trying to argue that it goes against traditional shounen power hierarchy. ... MInato Obviously attack high tiers before they can react with such a sper level of speed/reflexes coupled with their lack of speed/reflexes...

It's common sense!
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:11 PM   #21
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Kyf's argument formula: use random, poorly photoshopped panels as "evidence". Google "argument fallacies", pick one at random, not read it, and use it as a counter.
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:19 PM   #22
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjalostboy95 View Post
and I think that ends the convo, he just said he was right no matter what. It's not a debate if you're fanning over Minato. Hashirama got killed by a kunai? So what Minato can die from one too but you know what he can't do? He can't regenerate. So imagine if Hashirama punched him full force, yeah I thought so. Btw Madara's claim that Tsunade's healing is shit compared to her grandfather is valid because this guy fought him on multiple occasions. MULTIPLE. What is so hard to get here?
1).Where did I say that Lol... ALl you are doing is using a strawman argument to try and justify why I shoul dnot be argued with while ignoring the FACT I have provided plenty of manga panels to support my claims...

2). Contextomy is a fallacy too. Trying to take madara's words out of context to try and support your argument... Madara said that tsunade's Medial ninjutsu was shit compared to hers BEFORE she used genesis rebirth and 100 jutsu automatic regeneration....

read the manga for god sakes...

3). Hashirama can be Killed by a Kunai to the mid section, thus clearly his automatic regeneration cannot heal organ damage like tsunade's special medical ninjutsu can.
But, you will just cherry pick some statement about hashirama automatcially able to heal without the use of hand signs just like tsunade can as hashirama's healing>Tsunade's somehow...


Quote:
Originally Posted by liondemon View Post
Agreed, ninjalostboy95, no point tying to debate with someone who has convinced himself that the manga PROVES that he is right and that we should just accept it.
I hope your trolling... WHen the manga shows exactly what I am claiming then how am I not right? It's the Accepting part you have trouble with obviously...
It's like you think the manga is some irrelevant thing that has no way to support my claims about it, thus criticize me for being convinced the manga can prove me right about a claim, about the manga itself... WTF...

Quote:
It would be like trying to offer common sense and evidence to a religious person that their God from their bible doesn't exist when they believe that their bible PROVES that their God does exist. Some people choose to ignore common sense. To many, ignorance is bliss. Some choose to remain ignorant when all evidence points to their ignorance, and others are just naturally ignorant. Just like some choose to be ignorant and ignore common sense that the bible is full of a bunch of made-up stories and contradicts itself and scientific evidence, KYF chooses to be ignorant and ignore common sense on this topic.
LMFAO...

I argue using manga panels/FEATS to support my claims... ANd you use Conjecture and fan fiction to support your argument yet I am lacking common sense and BIAS...

Your just mad because hashirama is not FAST!!! Manga proves he is not faster then Madara who could not even start to keep up with V1 raikage LMAO... and the manga panel I show here seems to mean nothing too.
"HE"S FAST"


So try to convince yourself that there is something wrong with me (using Feats/manga to support my claims) and not you (using conjecture and fanfiction to support your claims) all so you can keep believing that hashirama could actually compete against mInato's speed and is the greatest thing ever with top stats in everything because he is just so awesome.

LMAO, I choose to be ignorant and ignore common sense... W/e you can think what you want, but I am right about hashirama's level of speed because my conclusion is based off the manga proves hashirama cannot even keep up with Minato's physical speed/reflexes in the least...
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

Last edited by Konnaha_yellow_flash; 09-10-2013 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:39 PM   #23
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Kyf's argument formula: use random, poorly photoshopped panels as "evidence". Google "argument fallacies", pick one at random, not read it, and use it as a counter.
1). I do not photoshop squat. I take the panels and put them in order for relevance. I do not change them at all other then the order the panels are in while circling dialogue I want recognized.
LMAO, Am I altering what happens in the panels... I am I making Minato so fast and hashirama commit suicide with a mere Kunai Lol... NO!!!

2). LMAO, prove it... You commit them and I point them out while you just whine like a flamer... Your unreasonable and you prove it every time you use a fallacy for an argument...

CONCLUSION:
Your just using a False attribution fallacy as a Red herring, another fallacy, just to try and draw attention away fro the real argument.

I could give a damn less about what the likes of you think lol. All you do is come onto a naruto forum to vent the frustrations of your shitty life that is likely barely a life to begin with, while overcompensating for your obvious insecurities by acting superior and personally attacking others intelligence, so I just pity you....
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:52 PM   #24
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
1).Where did I say that Lol... ALl you are doing is using a strawman argument to try and justify why I shoul dnot be argued with while ignoring the FACT I have provided plenty of manga panels to support my claims...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
The Manga PROVES that I am right.... Just accept it
Plz educate on the flaws of my argument again. I think that's not enough evidence .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
2). Contextomy is a fallacy too. Trying to take madara's words out of context to try and support your argument... Madara said that tsunade's Medial ninjutsu was shit compared to hers BEFORE she used genesis rebirth and 100 jutsu automatic regeneration....

read the manga for god sakes...
Contextomy? We getting fancy here aren't we Mr. KYF? =) like Madara would wait for her to go full heal mode. When she was severed in half where were her healing powers then? She'd be dead if it weren't for the slug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
3). Hashirama can be Killed by a Kunai to the mid section, thus clearly his automatic regeneration cannot heal organ damage like tsunade's special medical ninjutsu can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
I have provided plenty of manga panels to support my claims...
Well provide a manga panel for the bolded claim. I'm waiting =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
But, you will just cherry pick some statement about hashirama automatcially able to heal without the use of hand signs just like tsunade can as hashirama's healing>Tsunade's somehow...
Okay let's make a deal. I won't cherry pick you find the manga panel to support this claim:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
automatic regeneration
Go ahead, I'll give you time =)

Last edited by ninjalostboy95; 09-10-2013 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Broken quote
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:07 PM   #25
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
I could give a damn less about what the likes of you think lol. All you do is come onto a naruto forum to vent the frustrations of your shitty life that is likely barely a life to begin with, while overcompensating for your obvious insecurities by acting superior and personally attacking others intelligence, so I just pity you....
@bolded: Kinda funny and hypocritical considering you provide multi-post walls-of-text whenever someone argues your theories, opinions, and hypothesis.
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:47 PM   #26
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
It's clear that KYF never played any games that involved PvP, or else he'd know that the first rule of PvP is to outlast the opponent and, to do that, Defense>Offense and the contrary can only be applied when a character has no proper defense mechanisms (the Glass Cannon paradigm).
Meh I agree & disagree. The idea of pure defense will always best pure offense is the mind set of many a noob. A balance of offensive and defensive skill is required to win fights. If one purely focuses on offense but lacks the ability to take a single blow then yes they will surely lose any fight against an opponent capable of landing said single blow. However someone who focuses souly on defense while putting little-no effort into offensive tactics will find it hard pressed to actually land that single blow. You need a balance of solid defensive ability while also being capable of swift, powerful, and decisive striking to win fights. But whats more important above all else is having the intellect to read your enemy's fighting style and adjusting your own style accordingly to counter his own.

PS: Just to point out it takes more skill to play a Glass Cannon than it does to play a turtling tank. Personally speaking a fancy myself a shield/sword type who focuses on offensive counter striking.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
In the argument of speed vs power
Is such a dumb argument to begin with considering there are other factors which need to be taken into account. Just because an opponent is faster doesn't mean they have the ability to beat their opponent. Likewise just because someone is physical stronger doesn't mean they have the ability to beat their opponent as well.

The entire Minato argument is simply retarded to say the least. The manga has already proven that Minato can not hope to stand at equal footing with Hashirama or Madara. They simply put out class him.
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

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Old 09-10-2013, 08:23 PM   #27
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
The entire Minato argument is simply retarded to say the least. The manga has already proven that Minato can not hope to stand at equal footing with Hashirama or Madara. They simply put out class him.
1. Don't know why, but when I saw your post, first thing that popped into my head was this.

2. You're spot on about the vs. stuff.

3. The problem with Minato, Hashirama, and Madara was that Kishi put all three on this super level before being re-introduced as edos; and he's done nothing but shat on everyone, including Nardo.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:29 PM   #28
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
I hope your trolling... WHen the manga shows exactly what I am claiming then how am I not right? It's the Accepting part you have trouble with obviously...
It's like you think the manga is some irrelevant thing that has no way to support my claims about it, thus criticize me for being convinced the manga can prove me right about a claim, about the manga itself... WTF...



LMFAO...

I argue using manga panels/FEATS to support my claims... ANd you use Conjecture and fan fiction to support your argument yet I am lacking common sense and BIAS...

Your just mad because hashirama is not FAST!!! Manga proves he is not faster then Madara who could not even start to keep up with V1 raikage LMAO... and the manga panel I show here seems to mean nothing too.
"HE"S FAST"


So try to convince yourself that there is something wrong with me (using Feats/manga to support my claims) and not you (using conjecture and fanfiction to support your claims) all so you can keep believing that hashirama could actually compete against mInato's speed and is the greatest thing ever with top stats in everything because he is just so awesome.

LMAO, I choose to be ignorant and ignore common sense... W/e you can think what you want, but I am right about hashirama's level of speed because my conclusion is based off the manga proves hashirama cannot even keep up with Minato's physical speed/reflexes in the least...
The manga you keep talking about, the good book, is full of inconsistencies and contradictions. Killa B has already shown to move at least his tentacle faster than Minato can forcibly stab downward at a target just about a foot or so beneath him. Manga panels in this good book show only partial action that isn't always very graphic, and they sometimes change the story as the years pass. Common sense says that the strongest, most respected shinobi of any generation known to the current ninjas is the 1st Hokage, a man with more chakra than the almighty nine tails, and the same man who the manga bible showed us and has told us has made the Kyubbi, who stabbed Minato in the gut, his bitch in the past.

I actually get what you are saying about reflexes and manga panels and all that, but common sense still favors the almighty 1st Hokage. No matter how fast Minato is, reflexes and moving speed, there is no way that the 1st has no defense for Minato and cannot set a trap for Minato and all his speed and s/t jutsu. Kishi would never draw a fight scenario where Minato marks the 1st or the ground around the 1st and then kills the 1st on what would have to be his first try, since the first has inadequate speed and reflexes to at least defend himself, according to you. Common sense says that in a battle, there would be nothing Minato could do from which the first could not defend himself. And if the 1st is fast enough to defend himself, which he has the chakra to do longer than Minato has the chakra to keep attacking, the 1st has the better chance of winning the fight.
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Last edited by liondemon; 09-10-2013 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:53 AM   #29
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post

LMFAO, thanks for proving my point. The power of the Kyuubi is just like hashirama's which is why they react to each other. Yet, somehow Kyuubi's power automatically heals, but hashirama using the same type or power does not...
Lol now the Kyuubi and The First have the same healing technique????

Quote:
Look at Karin UZUMAKI with her automatic regeneration. Look at those who suck on her chakra to heal wounds automatically and hashirama SENJU with the same power and bloodline of the Uzumaki... does the same thing...
Wow that's a stretch, Karin Uzumaki's healing ability first of all is unique, Tsunade and Harashima has shown no evidence of them possessing the same.


Not to mention Karin can't auto-magically heal herself, her arms are filled with scars and bite marks.


Quote:
Oh geez, if one uses hand signs to willingly activate healing then if a shinobi doe snot have to even use hand sign, then they are able to AUTOMATICALLY heal... WHat is so hard about this... the mental gymnastics is legendary...
What are you even trying to debate now?

The question is this: Does the first hokage's healiing ability automatically activate without his knowledge

or is he able to mentally shut it off or on as needed.

and the answer is probably the latter.


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Quote:
1). Naruto's KCM is full of pure life energy
this does not prove that chakra doesn't increase people's speed.

Quote:
2). Now, the more chakra you have, the more you can put into your shushin.
Basics of taijutsu is transferring your normal charka to your arms/feet/fist/legs to increase speed and strength.

Quote:
However, despite having a Bijuu chakra close to Kurama powering his shushin. Minato with the power of about base naruto was able to move WAY faster then hashirama....
What makes you say this? Minato got to the battlefield first cause of his FTG capability.

Quote:
3). Reflexes level correlates with levle of physical speed. Minato's reflexes are known to be like a flash and just happens to be super fast physically with a shushin so fast he disappears and reappears as well as allowed Minato to beat hashirama, tobirama and hiruzen by 30 seconds or more to the battle field... That is ALLOT faster...
Minato got to the battlefield first cause of his FTG capability
The First Hokage wasn't even Sage mode... -_-


Quote:
CONCLUSION:
REFLEXES Determine speed more then anything in the manga. Not raw chakra level. Hashirama himself proves that...-
1. I don't even think you understand what Reflexes are.

Reflex are a person's reaction to outside stimuli. Ability to dodge quick strikes without thinking would be a reflex.

How exactly is having good reflexes suppose to change how fast someone can get from a point A to B is something only you can come up with. Simply because you don't understand what the hell reflexes are and have created your own definition

In fact, you should try to educate yourself about the nervous system.
Increasing the speed of the nervous system would allow you to perceive outside stimuli much faster but your body response to them would still be slow. The speed at which you are capable of moving your body has nothing to do with your nervous system.

If you still dont understand: USAIN BOLT isn't the fastest man on earth because he some how acquired a fast nervous system. for God sakes, use your head.

2. I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that speed only relies on one factor.

The Raikage uses his lighting to increase the effectiveness of his body flicker technique which increases his speed.

Thank you for pointing this out cause this is another example where chakra increases someone's speed directly.

Raikage increases the speed of his nervous system to gain the ability to REACT quicker. His FOOT SPEED and ability to accelerate quickly comes from using his lightning chakra to increase his body flicker technique.

Quote:
have you forgotten the taijutsu battle before the huge scale jutsu battle
I don't know how you used these panels to determine that Hashimara and Madara are slow.


Quote:

V1 raikage any better then C2 Juugo did....
1. Raikage is fast, even Minato said the same.
2. Madara was toying with the kages the entire battle.
3. Madara even explicitely said that fighting the kages at the same time was nothing compared to his fight with Hashimara.

4. You seem to forget that Madara managed to catch a full speed Raikage by only using his Susanoo.






minato's speed/reflexes, strength, power, ect has not increased since going KCM for some reason. Even now while he is out of chakra, he is still in KCM showing there is a problem...


Quote:
he Beat hashirama, tobiram and hiruzen by more then 30 seconds in a race with shushin...
Do you have proof he didn't FTG his way to the battlefield?
Quote:
Minato's Shushin is so fast that he Disappears then reappears in a perceived Instant as shown here:
I hope you understand that the Body Flicker technique is entirely depended on the users charkra right?


Quote:
Due to the throwing speed of his Kunai (minato was able to throw a Kunai to the sea form the ucrrent battle field in a matter of sceonds, fucking fast!!)
Minato can use FTG level 2 to get above the battle field, use his snesing skills to find the real hashiram and use another FTG level 2 to instant blitz him either tagging him for the eventual win or killing him with that attack...
Damn if thats the case Minato should of just thrown kunais at madara and tobi's heads because its so damn fast, nobody can dodge them. He would of ended the fight 5 seconds in!!! /sarcasm

Oh wow lets not forget how Tobi easily blocked Minato and then even managed to lay a strike on him while he was setting up his haraishin.

Shit if Minato was as fast as you claimed, Tobi wouldnt even have had time to react. But evidently this isn't the case.

http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/640/16

Minato was simply out matched. The end result would of been the same against the First.
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:32 PM   #30
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by ninjalostboy95 View Post
Plz educate on the flaws of my argument again. I think that's not enough evidence .
Lol, I doubt you and education does not mix if all those panles mean nothing to you...
Yea yea, moving the goal posts is a common fallacy... Need better evidence then there already is unreasoble BS...

Quote:
Contextomy? We getting fancy here aren't we Mr. KYF? =) like Madara would wait for her to go full heal mode. When she was severed in half where were her healing powers then? She'd be dead if it weren't for the slug.
Your ignoring the point again. Madara said tsunade's healing jutsu paled in comparison to hashirama's before she used genesis rebirth and 100 jutsu... So there is no way in fuck that he could have been referring to hashi's healing jutsu beyond jutsu he has never seen from tsunade....



Quote:
Well provide a manga panel for the bolded claim. I'm waiting =)
Seriously, going to play blind are we...

Automatic regeneration is being bale to regenerate without the use of hand seals which tsunade has with Genesis rebirth and 100 jutsu, and hashirama was said to have the exact same kind of healing, without the need of hand seals, thus automatic...


And here, the ONLY evidence of hashirama's healing ability shown with a hashirama clone body attached to Obito and it AUTOMATICALLY heals the burns and scuff on the hashirama clone arm....


See, it's fucking automatic... The fact that it does not needs hand seals which is the willing activation of healing. Then, if one can heal without the use of hand seals then clearly the healing it automatic!!!!

Why is common sense such a rarity with you people?

Quote:
Okay let's make a deal. I won't cherry pick you find the manga panel to support this claim:



Go ahead, I'll give you time =)
It's already done, but I am rahter sure the outcome will just be "Noo, nuhuhhhhhh, spppppppppppp"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiegel View Post
@bolded: Kinda funny and hypocritical considering you provide multi-post walls-of-text whenever someone argues your theories, opinions, and hypothesis.
I am not allow to defend my theories, posts, ideas? LAMO, WTF are you talking about...
And the multi-post is due to many people to reply to and wall of text to properly explain myself and yet somehow I am a hypocrite for doing exactly what you and everone else does...

Congrats, you have proven your from the gump bloodline with a post like this...
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And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


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