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Old 09-11-2013, 12:50 PM   #31
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

[QUOTE=Vengeance;2138159]
Quote:
Meh I agree & disagree. The idea of pure defense will always best pure offense is the mind set of many a noob
.

Who the hell made that argument?

Quote:
A balance of offensive and defensive skill is required to win fights. If one purely focuses on offense but lacks the ability to take a single blow then yes they will surely lose any fight against an opponent capable of landing said single blow. However someone who focuses souly on defense while putting little-no effort into offensive tactics will find it hard pressed to actually land that single blow. You need a balance of solid defensive ability while also being capable of swift, powerful, and decisive striking to win fights. But whats more important above all else is having the intellect to read your enemy's fighting style and adjusting your own style accordingly to counter his own.
Or be named naruto...

Pretty much you have described mInato, not hashirama so then I guess you agree?

Quote:
Is such a dumb argument to begin with considering there are other factors which need to be taken into account. Just because an opponent is faster doesn't mean they have the ability to beat their opponent. Likewise just because someone is physical stronger doesn't mean they have the ability to beat their opponent as well.
You have missed the point of the argument, thus proven yourself the stupid one, sorry....
The argument was about Speed Vs power/strength and when it comes to striking. Speed is the most effective physical skill one can have...

And you ignore the FACT that if the enemy is too slow to even react the attackers speed to even defend himself while too slow to possibly catch the enemy with all his power. How can he win? This is my argument...

Quote:
The entire Minato argument is simply retarded to say the least. The manga has already proven that Minato can not hope to stand at equal footing with Hashirama or Madara. They simply put out class him.
LMFOA, here we go, where does "prove" this? because last I checked, v1 Juubito>hashirama, canon... Thus EMS madara as well if they are equal... And yet Minato and his clone easily brushed offed the speed kick attack from the shinobi stronger then both hashirama and EMS madara, while focusing on using his new jutsu too, did not even need the FTG...

ANd it Took V2 Juubito who is WAY stronger then V1 juubito, thus way way stronger then hashirama/madara, just to touch Minato for the first time in combat (excluding him using himself as a shield for naruto at his death point) and Only due to a failed Kunai defense coupled with Minato already holding back against Obito not wanting to hurt him due to sympathy...

minato is so freaking fast he makes V2 raikage look like he is standing still, and if V2 raikage with his level of reflexes cannot react to minato's speed attacks then hashirama nor madara will have a freaking chance....

Add in the fact Minato can just teleport away perfect susanoo, easily avoid amaterasu and break any genjutsu by teleporting to another location to regain control over his nervous sytem and chakra... Minato can beat madara...

Most of all, ALL MINATO HAS OT DO IS TOUCH YOU AND YOUR DONE BECUASE HE IS SO FAST HE CAN JUST BLITZ ATTACK YOU BEFORE YOU CAN EVEN REACT...

CONCLUSION:
ABle to brush off an attack from a shinobi stronger then hashirama/madara, it takes a shinobi way way stronger then hashirama/madara with physical speed beyond any other plus a fialed kunai defense and symaphty for Obitojust to touch minato for the first time ever...
So fast not even V2 riakage can react to his attacks and can use FTG to teleport away susnaoo of any level to hit madara directly...

All combined with the FACT ALL MInato has to do is TOUCH you, and your done coupled with the fact minato can easily avoid any attack even of hashi/madara scale due to the fact he has tags all over the fire country and other countries left over fro other battles, and they do not go away, this has a defensive teleporting range the size of many countries, thus can avoid anything hashirama/madara throw at him easily...

And you hashirama and Madara are on a whole other level and cannot be beaten by Minato... WTF...

YOUR NOT EVEN ADDING IN THE FACT THAT MINATO CAN USE SHIKI FUUJIN APLLIED WITH HIRAHSIN TO MAKES HIS REAPER SEAL UNAVOIDABLE LIKE HIS OTHER BLITZ ATTACKS TO TAKE THE SOUL OF THE ENEMY AT THE COST OF HIS, THUS MINATO CAN AT LEAST GET A DRAW AND THERE IS NO WAY EVEN HASHIRAMA OR MADARA IS GETTING PAST SHIKI FUUJIN APPLIED WIT HIRAHSIN...

YOUR DELUSIONAL AS SHIT IF YOU BELIEVE THAT...
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:48 PM   #32
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by liondemon View Post
The manga you keep talking about, the good book, is full of inconsistencies and contradictions. Killa B has already shown to move at least his tentacle faster than Minato can forcibly stab downward at a target just about a foot or so beneath him.
LMAO, did I just read this? You do realize that MInato was going to double handed stab the raikage, but reacted to the incoming tentacle, kicked rai out of the way then cut the tentacle in half so hard to left a small crater in the ground...
It is not like minato was going to stab raikage then B reacted, shot his tentacle to minato because it is that fast LMAO... It's called a team attack... V2 raikage being the faster shinobi arrived first with the tentacle following behind. WTF kind of interpretation....

Quote:
Manga panels in this good book show only partial action that isn't always very graphic, and they sometimes change the story as the years pass. Common sense says that the strongest, most respected shinobi of any generation known to the current ninjas is the 1st Hokage, a man with more chakra than the almighty nine tails, and the same man who the manga bible showed us and has told us has made the Kyubbi, who stabbed Minato in the gut, his bitch in the past.
1). LMAO... So Hype is all you have because feats show that hashirama will get Touched, thus tagged and since a Kunai can kill him. WIll die when Minato blitzes him.
Coupled with the FACT Minato has tags all over the fire country and other to teleport to in order to avoid even SM levle attacks form hashirama so MInato cannot evne be touched while able to easily blitz kill HIm yet I am supposed to believe form hype that Minato<hashirama anyways....

2). Kyuubi made who, what? You want to know how BIAS you are against Minato... Minato onwed the Kyuubi eaisly without even a KKG like what hashirama has, then when out of chakra, used his body as a shield to protect his son on purpose, then seal the other half of the Kyuubi on naruto...

Minato was not hit due to speed/reflexes... He could have easily avoided the Kyubi nail attack. It is just that he was already doomed after using the shiki fuujin thus used himself as a shield to protect naruto...

Yet somehow in your BIAs reality, that was mInato getting owned...

Quote:
I actually get what you are saying about reflexes and manga panels and all that, but common sense still favors the almighty 1st Hokage. No matter how fast Minato is, reflexes and moving speed, there is no way that the 1st has no defense for Minato and cannot set a trap for Minato and all his speed and s/t jutsu. Kishi would never draw a fight scenario where Minato marks the 1st or the ground around the 1st and then kills the 1st on what would have to be his first try, since the first has inadequate speed and reflexes to at least defend himself, according to you. Common sense says that in a battle, there would be nothing Minato could do from which the first could not defend himself. And if the 1st is fast enough to defend himself, which he has the chakra to do longer than Minato has the chakra to keep attacking, the 1st has the better chance of winning the fight.
Are you listening to yourself?

Although Minato has such super speed/reflexes able to easily own hashirama, and hashi does not have the speed/reflexes to react to Minato;s attacks. hashirama will still magically defend himself and not get Touched by the fastest man ever, thus get Kunai blitzed and since a Kunai is proven to be enough to kill hashirama... This is osmehow your conception of common sense...
minato can obviously win without having to resort to shiki fuujin... just accept it. Hashirama is not that great...

SO it comes down to either mInato wins or no one wins due to shiki fuujin because how can hashirama beat someone he cannot even catch since minato has tags all over the fire country and other countries to use for teleporting away form large scale attacks...
and because all Minato has to do is touch hashirama, and he has kage bushins he cna use for that too who can all do the same things the original can. Thus, hashirama is going to get touched and thus get Kunai blitzed and lose...

How does hashirama beat someone he cannot possibly catch or defend against?
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:51 PM   #33
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBIG View Post
Wow that's a stretch, Karin Uzumaki's healing ability first of all is unique, Tsunade and Harashima has shown no evidence of them possessing the same.
Not to mention Karin can't auto-magically heal herself, her arms are filled with scars and bite marks.
Karin heals without the use of hand seals just like tsunade and hashirama... Kabuto shows her healing here with himself after integrating her ability into himself.. Hea heals his snake tail that was cut without the use of hand seals, thus is using automatic regeneration of karin's.



Quote:
What are you even trying to debate now?

The question is this: Does the first hokage's healiing ability automatically activate without his knowledge

or is he able to mentally shut it off or on as needed.

and the answer is probably the latter.
Your conclusion makes no sense... How can you mentally shut off healing when your body automatically reacts to injuries by restoring/regenerating itself... It is just that hashirama cannot heal vital organs and such, thus a Kunai to the chest was going to kill him...

Quote:
this does not prove that chakra doesn't increase people's speed.
Basics of taijutsu is transferring your normal charka to your arms/feet/fist/legs to increase speed and strength.
What makes you say this? Minato got to the battlefield first cause of his FTG capability.
1). One focuses chakra to the feet to increase speed yes, but that does not mean when one gains a shit load of chakra, it will make them that much faster... Reflexes has been corrlated to speed more then anything and I have alreayd explained this as well as shown supporting evidence form the manga, but it clearly got ignored if you are still arguing this.

2). Minato got to the battle field using SHUSHIN!!! WHich everyone knows, what manga are you reading? Minato's physical speed is way beyond that of the three other hokage's and this proved it..


Minato could not teleport to the battle field with no tags/seals there... duh...

And SM is not shown to increase the speed of hashirama... Only his output of mokuton, canon!!!
If hashirama is so much faster in MS then why was he so easily intercepted by edo madara here, who is not even fast enough to possibly compete against v1 raikage's speed.


See what you claim and what the manga shows are two different things...



Quote:
1. I don't even think you understand what Reflexes are.

Reflex are a person's reaction to outside stimuli. Ability to dodge quick strikes without thinking would be a reflex.

How exactly is having good reflexes suppose to change how fast someone can get from a point A to B is something only you can come up with. Simply because you don't understand what the hell reflexes are and have created your own definition

In fact, you should try to educate yourself about the nervous system.
Increasing the speed of the nervous system would allow you to perceive outside stimuli much faster but your body response to them would still be slow. The speed at which you are capable of moving your body has nothing to do with your nervous system.
OMG are you serious? The quicker the nervous system's synapses fire, the quicker the reflexes... The quicker the reflexes the quicker one can activate one's muscles to move and explode... Reflexes are not just for defense, they determine over all speed...

Your understanding of reflexes=physcal speed is ridiculously low...

Quote:
2. I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that speed only relies on one factor.

The Raikage uses his lighting to increase the effectiveness of his body flicker technique which increases his speed.

Thank you for pointing this out cause this is another example where chakra increases someone's speed directly.
1). Of course you have to have the muscle strength to move as well, but reflexes and nervous system are the main part.

2). Raikage did not INCREASE his just normal CHAKRA, he Increased his LIGHTNING chakra, thus more lightning to increases the speed of his synapses to fire off even faster to make him even faster...

His CHAKRA level has nothing to do with his speed, just the nature of his chakra and how it activates his nervous system... Lol... Where are you getting this shit from? The manga clealry states Lightning chakra increases the sysnapses for greater speed... Not chakra itself does...


Quote:
I don't know how you used these panels to determine that Hashimara and Madara are slow.
1. Raikage is fast, even Minato said the same.
2. Madara was toying with the kages the entire battle.
3. Madara even explicitely said that fighting the kages at the same time was nothing compared to his fight with Hashimara.
LAMO, Edo madara with his EMS chakra level Plus hashirama chakra level could not even possibly compete against V1 riakage as seen here:


Thus madara was forced to HIDE in susanoo to block the speed of raikage like sasuke was before. ANd for some reason, Kihsi never let raikage go V2 supermode, you can check. He let tsuchikage get on rai to increases his speed to v2 level, but never actually let raikage go into V2 supermode for osme reason which added with tsuchikage increase would have made raikage a serious htreat against anything other then perfect susanoo..

Quote:
4. You seem to forget that Madara managed to catch a full speed Raikage by only using his Susanoo.

LMFAO, you think madara is fast because he caught raikage while he was sitting still bitching at tsunade about fighting like shit .... WTF... Thus, madara caught a distracted, stationary V1 raikage... Wow, madara is amazing...

Quote:
Oh wow lets not forget how Tobi easily blocked Minato and then even managed to lay a strike on him while he was setting up his haraishin.

Shit if Minato was as fast as you claimed, Tobi wouldnt even have had time to react. But evidently this isn't the case.

http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/640/16

Minato was simply out matched. The end result would of been the same against the First.
LMFAO,

1). V1 Juubito is>hashirama as hashi admitted himself LMAO... ANd mInato easily brushed his attack off, even his clone too while busy focusing on the new jutsu. Yet hashirama, who is even weaker will hit mInato...
2). V2 Juubito is stronger then V1, thus>>hashirama and it took his level as a shinobi coupled with a failed kunai defense and Minato already holding back not trying to hurt his former student just to hit mInato...

And yet somehow hashriama who minato could give a shit about is going to hit minato when it took a filed Kunai defense against a shinobi way stronger then hashirama just to hit mInato... LAMO, you must be special with such a conclusion as that...

A shinobi way stronger then hashirama coupled with a failed Kunai defense and tyring not to hurt his former student allowed mInato to be hit for the first time in combat, thus hashirama must be able to do the same...?

This is why I really do not like debating with you.. You find this^^ a logical conclusion...
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:52 PM   #34
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Lol, I doubt you and education does not mix if all those panles mean nothing to you...
Yea yea, moving the goal posts is a common fallacy... Need better evidence then there already is unreasoble BS...
I like how you never actually addressed the evidence I gave you. =]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Your ignoring the point again. Madara said tsunade's healing jutsu paled in comparison to hashirama's before she used genesis rebirth and 100 jutsu... So there is no way in fuck that he could have been referring to hashi's healing jutsu beyond jutsu he has never seen from tsunade....
I'm not the only one ignoring points. You think Hashi needs to go full mitosis regeneration Tsunade. Based on what Madara is saying, maybe his basic regen is greater than Tsunade since, you know, he's basing it on that alone not some super powered up regen. Comparing that is like comparing apples and oranges. I don't believe I have to break it down so simple for you but here it goes: say Tsunade had a passive healing ability named "Passive healing ability" and Hashirama possessed the same ability, but Tsunade still has it at level 3 out of 5 levels. The big boss Madara sama is doing 10k damage Tsunade has 50k hp and the healing ability does 5k every three secs and Madara sees her life falling below 50%(minding he attacks every three secs.) now Hashirama has his skilled maxed and heals 10k HP every three secs and for argument's sake let's say he had the same HP and Madara sama is acting all big and bad again and every time he attacks Hashi he heals it right back so his hp is 100% ALL. THE. TIME. If you don't understand this then........



Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Seriously, going to play blind are we...

Automatic regeneration is being bale to regenerate without the use of hand seals which tsunade has with Genesis rebirth and 100 jutsu, and hashirama was said to have the exact same kind of healing, without the need of hand seals, thus automatic...


And here, the ONLY evidence of hashirama's healing ability shown with a hashirama clone body attached to Obito and it AUTOMATICALLY heals the burns and scuff on the hashirama clone arm....


See, it's fucking automatic... The fact that it does not needs hand seals which is the willing activation of healing. Then, if one can heal without the use of hand seals then clearly the healing it automatic!!!!

Why is common sense such a rarity with you people?

It's already done, but I am rahter sure the outcome will just be "Noo, nuhuhhhhhh, spppppppppppp"
I wish we all could contradict ourselves like you just did. No hand seals=/= automatic. Rasengan is automatic too? Amaterasu is automatic too? You see why your argument makes no sense?
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:11 PM   #35
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by ninjalostboy95 View Post
I like how you never actually addressed the evidence I gave you. =]
LAMO, Nothing is evidence now... WOW, that is pathetic even for you.


Quote:
I'm not the only one ignoring points. You think Hashi needs to go full mitosis regeneration Tsunade. Based on what Madara is saying, maybe his basic regen is greater than Tsunade since, you know, he's basing it on that alone not some super powered up regen. Comparing that is like comparing apples and oranges. I don't believe I have to break it down so simple for you but here it goes: say Tsunade had a passive healing ability named "Passive healing ability" and Hashirama possessed the same ability, but Tsunade still has it at level 3 out of 5 levels. The big boss Madara sama is doing 10k damage Tsunade has 50k hp and the healing ability does 5k every three secs and Madara sees her life falling below 50%(minding he attacks every three secs.) now Hashirama has his skilled maxed and heals 10k HP every three secs and for argument's sake let's say he had the same HP and Madara sama is acting all big and bad again and every time he attacks Hashi he heals it right back so his hp is 100% ALL. THE. TIME. If you don't understand this then........
Talking about trying to over complicate things... It is very simple...

It is simlpe, Hashirama does not react to heal the damage (use hand seals), hashirama's BODY AUTOMATICALLY RESTORES ITSELF after receiving damage but almost instantly instead of over time like a regular body, thus cannot be shut off by will anymore then I can stop my body from healing itself... so quit doing all this mental gymnastics to try and delude yourselves that hashirama just shut off his bodies ability to automatically restore itself...

The ONLY thing is, hashirama is ONLY shown to be able to handle external damage like the hashiram a clone Bodies arm that restored itself easily. However, due to hashirama being bale to die form a Kunai strike to the mid section, hashi clearly does not have the ability to heal deep internal damage to vital organs and such.
ANd no, hashi is not just magically turning off his automatic restoring ability of his BODY, that is IMPOSSIBLE...

Quote:
I wish we all could contradict ourselves like you just did. No hand seals=/= automatic. Rasengan is automatic too? Amaterasu is automatic too? You see why your argument makes no sense?
So appeal to ridicule huh... As unreasonable as ever...

LMAO, The body HEALING without the use of hand seals to willingly activate the healing, thus the body heals itself automatically after getting injured is nothing like a rasnegan or amaterasu.

They require no hand seals, but requires chakra focus, rotation, MS/EMS activation ect to use... The body does not automatically produce those jutsu in reaction to a outside stimuli like an injury... Way to make as little sense as ever...
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

Last edited by Konnaha_yellow_flash; 09-11-2013 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:47 PM   #36
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Vengeance, you should fix your second quote, it was KYF that said that, not me. (Funny, considering he stupidly thought the first quote was his and asked who made the argument. Further proof he doesn't read what other people write)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
Meh I agree & disagree. The idea of pure defense will always best pure offense is the mind set of many a noob.
For clarity's sake, I wasn't arguing extremes because, like you said, it's noobs who argue such things. But in the great schemes of things, defense is still the most valuable of assets to have and, in plenty of games with PvP, offensive items have defensive stats on them like health, armor and others (like resilience in WoW, life steal in LoL, etc).

Quote:
PS: Just to point out it takes more skill to play a Glass Cannon than it does to play a turtling tank.
QFT, because it isn't anyone who is able to dish out lots of damage without getting themselves under a barrage of attacks.

Quote:
Personally speaking a fancy myself a shield/sword type who focuses on offensive counter striking.
I fancy myself the unappreciated healbot position. Not the most glamorous of roles, but I prefer to handle it myself than to die a lot because the healer is too busy yelling at the tank.




Oh and KYF, I have the adore the fact that you spew fallacies others supposedly commit but you never factored that your constant blabbing of "A>B and B>C, therefore A>C" IS A FALLACY, pretty much making most of your argument null.
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:19 PM   #37
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Having the speed advantage contributing to the point that you should win every fight isn't something that should be contained in a vacuum. You have to factor in the 1st's fight IQ, his arsenal, the locale in which the battle takes place, and how the 1st's speed may be just enough combined with his other skillsets to offset Minato's bodyflicker and FTG. The same concept applies in a real combat situation. If someone's faster than you, you better have good reflexes, defenses in case you get hit, and the ability to cut him off by using your natural surroundings, have it be a tree or a side of a building.
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:54 PM   #38
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Vengeance, you should fix your second quote, it was KYF that said that, not me. (Funny, considering he stupidly thought the first quote was his and asked who made the argument. Further proof he doesn't read what other people write)
Yeah my second comment was simply a general response to the topic title while somewhat ignoring the dumbass hidden meaning behind the thread which is just another Minato is god tier based only on speed alone(because I just think the whole argument is stupid). Just wanted to point out that other factors need to be taken into account when discussing "speed" vs "power".

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
For clarity's sake, I wasn't arguing extremes because, like you said, it's noobs who argue such things. But in the great schemes of things, defense is still the most valuable of assets to have and, in plenty of games with PvP, offensive items have defensive stats on them like health, armor and others (like resilience in WoW, life steal in LoL, etc).
Hehe LoL... Yeah I fancy myself a jungler (Sejuani, Elise, Evelynn, Xin, Fiddlesticks) and don't mind supporting(Leona[shield&sword FTW], Zyra, Sona, Janna, Soraka, & soon to be Thresh) so long as the adc isn't a complete retard. LoL can be a mind numbing game to play because of the community to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
QFT, because it isn't anyone who is able to dish out lots of damage without getting themselves under a barrage of attacks.

I fancy myself the unappreciated healbot position. Not the most glamorous of roles, but I prefer to handle it myself than to die a lot because the healer is too busy yelling at the tank.
Yeah depending on the game I find myself building like a selfish solo player. If I were to do a Clerical role I find myself building like a Battle Cleric or "Paladin" instead of pure heal bot. Battle Cleric types (depending on the game) tend to have retarded god-like solo clear potential and can still work in groups so long as they're aware of how you actually built up. My mind set on the issue is if you(you being the glass cannon mage or dps warrior/berserker who never fucking dodges) need to rely on a healer to get ANYTHING done in-game then you yourself need to improve on your playstyle and manors. Pure healers tend to get little-no respect(Which is why I'll be greedy and play them Offensive) from the average player which is a shame considering that they tend to be the backbone of almost all team setups.

In terms of Glass Cannons like with say Mages I tend to build more towards utility CC over raw damage. Like taking advantage of skills that would stun, slow, knockdown, and or otherwise disable opponents. Adds to your survivability while in solo play since I tend to be that selfish player.

Defender/Knight types is where its at for me though. So long as I can shield bash (regardless of the game) I'm a happy camper. Again I play more unconventional builds(for solo play and pvp) by focusing mainly on damage and maneuverability while taking advantage of the classes naturally high hp&def rates from chain/platemail and shield. Call me an Offender or Offensive-Tank. But again depends on the game.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:45 PM   #39
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

I even gve you an example. How can you get this stupid? Until you address this:

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
The Manga PROVES that I am right.... Just accept it
Don't bother replying. =)
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:17 PM   #40
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by ninjalostboy95 View Post
I even gve you an example. How can you get this stupid? Until you address this:



Don't bother replying. =)
The context of that statement was about the manga proving that hashirama has automatic regeneration, which he does, just like tsunade once she activates her GR and 100 jutsu.

And that hashiram can be killed by a Kunai despite his body automatically restoring itself when it takes damage, but not internal damage of vital organs.

The manga proves all this, but instead, you choose to delude yourself and use mental gymnastics to try and rationalize why hashirama can be killed by a Kunai, but still has regeneration beyond even tsunade when not a thing was ever said, implied and definitely was disproven with the Kunai suicide itself. Showing that tsunade's level of regeneration is>hashirama's easily... By FEATS...

Just keep deluding yourself, I do not care. I proved my point and that is all that matters...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


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People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
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then an illusion....


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Old 09-12-2013, 12:45 PM   #41
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Oh and KYF, I have the adore the fact that you spew fallacies others supposedly commit but you never factored that your constant blabbing of "A>B and B>C, therefore A>C" IS A FALLACY, pretty much making most of your argument null.
Your kidding right? Logically...
: If A>B...
: ANd B>C
CONCLUSION:
A<C you idiot... and will Only be capable of being informal fallacy if the premise and conclusion have some kind of disconnection. But you have to prove that, not just claim it, like your opinion=fact as usual...

SO yet again, numious make a claim as a FACT, without any support then runs off to hide under his bridge...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:32 PM   #42
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Your kidding right? Logically...
: If A>B...
: ANd B>C
CONCLUSION:
A<C you idiot...
I'm not sure if typo or you're contradicting yourself to hilarious extents (considering you said Minato outmatched Obito and Obito outmatched Hashirama, therefore Minato>Hashirama). So which is it? A>B, B>C therefore A>C or A>B, B>C therefore A<C?
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:58 PM   #43
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
I'm not sure if typo or you're contradicting yourself to hilarious extents (considering you said Minato outmatched Obito and Obito outmatched Hashirama, therefore Minato>Hashirama). So which is it? A>B, B>C therefore A>C or A>B, B>C therefore A<C?
That is what you are referring to, LMAO...

Hashirama<V1 Juubito is canon!!! Confirmed by hashirama himself and by feats obviously...
And yet minato and his clone easily brushed off V1 Juubito's speed Kick attack like it was nothing. While busy focusing on the new jutsu too... minato was the only one able to fend off V1 Juubito's attacks... WHile still performing at base level not even using his KCM power up...

And then it took V2 Juubito who is even stronger then V1, thus WAY stronger then Hashirama plus a failed Kunai defense coupled with minato not wanting to hurt his former student which holds him back, just to get hit for the first time EVER in Combat.

ANd yet you people try to delude yourselves that hashirama can even touch minato, not just by his feats against Juubito, the shinobi way stronger then hashirama. But, because he has tags all over the fire country and other countries to teleport to in order to avoid even SM level attacks from hashirama...

So NO, hashirama will not even be able to touch Minato.

Meanwhile, Base Minato, with physical speed/reflexes on par with V2 raikage's and able to move so fast and use effectively Level 2 FTG to easily dodge and counter rai's and KB's tentacle ambush so fast it made V2 riakage look like he was standing still despite his level of speed using V2 supermode.

And yet you think mInato with such speed coupled with the use of kage bushin's to help, will not at least TOUCH hashirama (which is all it takes to in for mInato). Thus, at will be able to kunai blitz hashirama and kill him by striking vital organs if not just removing his head...

SO pretty much, the manga shows that hashirama CANNOT TOUCH minato, but cannot avoid form getting TOUCHED by Minato which is all it takes for MInato to win.
Add in the use of boss summons, fukasaku and shima for sage level jutsu and frog song plus shiki fuujin applied with hirahsin making it unavoidable for last ditch effort. Meaning at best, hashiram can draw against Minato due to the shiki fuujin. At best....

Pretty much the ONLY effective offense and defense hashi has is mokuton clones to fight with and hide in. However, they are not like kage bushin and are weaker then the Original, thus minato can use his sensing ability or summon the sage toads to sense and find the real hashirama...

So how can hashirama win? All of his other jutsu other then Buddha summon did not even effect the already worn out gokage lol...
And Buddha summon can be avoided bhile attacking hashirama directly using either hirahsin, shiki fuujin or frog song from the sage toads...
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

Last edited by Konnaha_yellow_flash; 09-12-2013 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:34 PM   #44
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

This is a tougher debate that at first thought.

See, if I go for speed, I get "are you done already?" But if I go for power, I get complaints about being rather tender/sore later on.

Ideally, somewhere inbetween that balances both speed and power is the best strategy.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:40 PM   #45
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
So NO, hashirama will not even be able to touch Minato.
Remember that fight with KB and Rai? How KB had his sword ready to kill Minato yet he wasn't even as fast him? Minato is all knife tricks. Also about to Raikage thing you mentioned, it's not like Rai can stop especially when Minato FTG at the last second, called momentum look it up. KYF still not giving me direct proof for his auto regen claim =/
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