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Old 09-12-2013, 02:47 PM   #46
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by ACt View Post
This is a tougher debate that at first thought.

See, if I go for speed, I get "are you done already?" But if I go for power, I get complaints about being rather tender/sore later on.

Ideally, somewhere inbetween that balances both speed and power is the best strategy.
Best response right here.




Oh and KYF, nice dodging of the question altogether. I didn't ask for more Minato wanking, I made a technical question.

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So which is it? A>B, B>C therefore A>C or A>B, B>C therefore A<C?
This should be easy if you are oh-so informed about logic.
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:33 PM   #47
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by ACt View Post
This is a tougher debate that at first thought.

See, if I go for speed, I get "are you done already?"
Hey, quickies are lots of fun.

Quote:
But if I go for power, I get complaints about being rather tender/sore later on.
That means you've done your job right... usually.

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Ideally, somewhere inbetween that balances both speed and power is the best strategy.
Hey, as long as the climax is proper, that's all that matters.
















Seriously, thanks for posting that ACt. Gave me a good, hearty laugh.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:13 PM   #48
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

I won't speak on the speed vs. power, but call you out KYF for bullshit. First off, Madara vaguely described Harashirma's healing technique yet never explained it. Nor Harashirma, therefore, how can YOU know how it works? Why didn't it work before his death, how did he die? Questions you can't answer, as no one here can, so stop spouting explainations that seemingly make sense to you because you filled in the blanks. Additionally, I stated elsewhere, that Harashirma didn't leave his previous battle with Madara unscathed, he was bleeding, and his eye was closed from damage, not being sleepy.

Lastly STOP COMPARIING THE CURRENT OBITO TO ANYONE, NO ONE IN THE MANGA WORLD EXCEPT RIDOKU HAS EVER BEEN IN HIS LEAGUE. You speak as if Obito went out on his own and gathered all of these power ups and weapons, like Itachi with his Susanno... Dude Obito is moar of a prostitute than Sasuke has ever been. He got pimped for his eye, pimped for his body, pimped for his body parts, pimped for his soul, and now being pimped by the Jyuubi, the most powerful entity that everyone draws power from. Lets not make this an Obito story as if the lackey had these plans all his life, he's a lovesick pimped product with Rin on the brain, that's what keeps him in some kind of control over the Jyuubi.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:45 PM   #49
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

1. Nervous system doesn't determine a person's speed only his reaction time.
increasing the speed of synapses doesn't some how give people the ability to move their muscles faster.

Usain bolt has the same nervous sytem as all of us; his speed has nothing to do with how fast his body carries ions through his nervous system -_-.

you're distinct lack of knowledge of what reflexes are and what the nervous system does makes me wonder why you even bother trying to use them to support your arguments.
Just stop.

2. Madara managed to catch the Raikage going full speed with his Susanoo.
You claim that raikage was distracted by tsunade, but if you look at the first panel you'll notice that Madara was really FAR from the raikage to begin with. If Madara was truly as slow as you've said the Raikage would of had plenty of time to dodge; even if he was distracted.

3. Your made up descriptions of the Raikage's speed are just that... made up.
That V1/V2 crap is stuff you've created. Prove to me that the Raikage wasn't using his full potential when fighting reincarnated MADARA.

4. Naruto managed to dodge the old Raikage (edo tensei) while he was simply in Sage Mode. Hashimara would probably gain the same speed and reflexe boost in his Sage mode. Considering kabuto's snake sage mode also gives them the exact same skill boosts.

5. Madara is probably just a bit slower or if not just as fast as Hashimara, and it's easy to intercept someone if their running towards you and not away from you.

6. Chakra does increase the speed of ninjas.

the raikages used their lightning charkra to increase their speed.
Lee and Guy open up their inner gates to gain acesss to a larger flow of chakra to increase their speed.


7. Minato isn't even top 5 in this manga anymore.

Tobi, Madara, Hashimara, Naruto, Tobirama.
He's now second tier along with Sasuke and shit,

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Old 09-12-2013, 11:55 PM   #50
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
This should be easy if you are oh-so informed about logic.
Well, if it's the same "logic" he uses to decipher Japanese writing without a translator or dictionary then I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Old 09-13-2013, 01:57 PM   #51
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoKakarott023 View Post
I won't speak on the speed vs. power, but call you out KYF for bullshit. First off, Madara vaguely described Harashirma's healing technique yet never explained it. Nor Harashirma, therefore, how can YOU know how it works? Why didn't it work before his death, how did he die? Questions you can't answer, as no one here can, so stop spouting explainations that seemingly make sense to you because you filled in the blanks. Additionally, I stated elsewhere, that Harashirma didn't leave his previous battle with Madara unscathed, he was bleeding, and his eye was closed from damage, not being sleepy.
LMAO, common sense escapes you...

FEATS, not HYPE, but FEATS!!!
Not even counting the HYPE, but all it said was that hashirama's body could heal itself without hashirama having to use hand signs to activate the healing, which there meant hashirama's body could AUTOMATICALLY heal itself...
: Hashirama is shown bleeding form the mouth, thus has internal injuries, and his eye is damage which is why it is closed when hashirama goes to move the Kyuubi to Konoha from the valley of the end using his buddha or another wood jutsu meaning hashirama was NOT out of chakra, thus cannot pull the "out of chakra" argument...
So hashirama showed there he had trouble healing internal injuries and his eye, which is an organ...


: Obito, with a hashirama clone body is shown automatically healing some minor burns and scuffs on the external of the arm....


: And then is shown committing suicide by striking his mid section with a KUNAI, thus attacking his internal organs, Despite his body automatically restoring itself.


CONCLUSION:
Hashirama's Body does RESTORE/HEAL Itself AUTOMATICALLY As shown with his clone body, but is Limited to External damage, cannot heal internal damage of vital organs and such... Shown by his suicide attempt... In fact, the ONLY jutsu known to heal internal damage and vital organs is tsunade's Genesis rebirth/100 jutsu which is a technique meant for automatic healing of the highest level...


Quote:
Lastly STOP COMPARIING THE CURRENT OBITO TO ANYONE, NO ONE IN THE MANGA WORLD EXCEPT RIDOKU HAS EVER BEEN IN HIS LEAGUE. You speak as if Obito went out on his own and gathered all of these power ups and weapons, like Itachi with his Susanno... Dude Obito is moar of a prostitute than Sasuke has ever been. He got pimped for his eye, pimped for his body, pimped for his body parts, pimped for his soul, and now being pimped by the Jyuubi, the most powerful entity that everyone draws power from. Lets not make this an Obito story as if the lackey had these plans all his life, he's a lovesick pimped product with Rin on the brain, that's what keeps him in some kind of control over the Jyuubi.
Translation: B-O-O-HO-O Becuase ONLY MInato and even his clone were able to brush off V1 Juubito's attack easily while busy focusing on using his new jutsu too. The same V1 Juubito who>hashirama by hashi's own confirmation form Juubito's feats plus owning everyone, other then mInato of course.
And it took V2 Juubito who is>v1 Juubito, who is>hashirama, Plus a failed kunai defense coupled with minato already holding back not trying to hurt his former student just to get hit for the FIRST time in combat not counting the time he use dhis body as a shield for his son after his fate was already seal after using the shiki fuujin...

The Point is that Minato competes with V1 Juubito and needs v2 Juubito plus other circumstances just to get hit and you think hashirama, who is way weaker then V2 Juubito is going to hit minato... Just no way!!!
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Old 09-13-2013, 01:57 PM   #52
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBIG View Post
1. Nervous system doesn't determine a person's speed only his reaction time.
increasing the speed of synapses doesn't some how give people the ability to move their muscles faster.

Usain bolt has the same nervous sytem as all of us; his speed has nothing to do with how fast his body carries ions through his nervous system -_-.
LMAO, yea, the faster you activate your muscles to move through faster synapses does nto increase your speed... Everyone's synapses and reflexes are the same thus it is because of Mrbig magic that people are faster then others...
How am I supposed to take your post when you think increased reflexes/nervous system will not increase speed...

Quote:
you're distinct lack of knowledge of what reflexes are and what the nervous system does makes me wonder why you even bother trying to use them to support your arguments.
Just stop.
Lol, take this post and read it yourself because you have proven that you clearly do not understand what part reflexes and nervous system play in physical speed...

Quote:
2. Madara managed to catch the Raikage going full speed with his Susanoo.
You claim that raikage was distracted by tsunade, but if you look at the first panel you'll notice that Madara was really FAR from the raikage to begin with. If Madara was truly as slow as you've said the Raikage would of had plenty of time to dodge; even if he was distracted.
LMFAO, Madara was not far away, he was just not shown in the same panel where Raikage was, busy looking at tsunade get her ass kicked... WTF LOL!!!! Mokuton clone susanoo madara did not blitz to rakage and grab him up before he could react, while riakage was moving at full speed.

Madara mokuton clone just took advantage of a distracted raikage and grabbed him up, simple as that, shown by the manga clearly...

I mean, raikage is clearly standing still, bitching at tsunade about her fighting, not moving at top speed and a madara clone just happen to grab him up while he was distracted, there was no feat of speed for Madara's clone there LMAO...
Proof:


Quote:
3. Your made up descriptions of the Raikage's speed are just that... made up.
That V1/V2 crap is stuff you've created. Prove to me that the Raikage wasn't using his full potential when fighting reincarnated MADARA.
WHile in V1, rai's hair is down and aura is small while V2 Rai's hair sticks up and his lightning aura increases allot... this shows v1 on top and V2 on bottom to show the difference...

ANd here, you can see that rai was clearly not in V2, but in V1 with his hair down and smaller lightning aura:



Quote:
4. Naruto managed to dodge the old Raikage (edo tensei) while he was simply in Sage Mode. Hashimara would probably gain the same speed and reflexe boost in his Sage mode. Considering kabuto's snake sage mode also gives them the exact same skill boosts.
First: 3rd raikage is nowhere near as fast as the 4th. 3rd raikage is not known for his speed, just his stamina, armour defense and finger chidori... The rubbed guy ninja was able to track and outmaneuver 3rd riakge to same naruto remember so no...

And I already posted evidence of SM hashirama easily being flanked by edo madara, who again could not even compete against V1 riakage's speed.

Quote:
5. Madara is probably just a bit slower or if not just as fast as Hashimara, and it's easy to intercept someone if their running towards you and not away from you.
LMAO, if SM hashirama is as fast as you try to make him out to be. Madara should not of so easily caught hashirama... Hashi should of shushin'ed right past madara, but madara reacted, tracked anf flanked SM hashirama trying to get to Obito...

Quote:
Tobi, Madara, Hashimara, Naruto, Tobirama.
He's now second tier along with Sasuke and shit,
And yet another reason you are not taken seriously... You think naruto>mInato when Minato can seal away the power Minato gave naruto to make him what he is and unbalnace his regular chakra so no SM either... LMAO..

And Tobirama is not even a challenge! MInato is a super tobirama and that is all that needs to be said...

ANd Edo madara along with Juubito are the only ones that could beat minato... EMS madara or hashirama will either lose to Minato or everyone loses due to shiki fuujin... EIther way they cannot beat Minato... He is too fast with too effective defense and offense for them to win.

You are just under this delusion that power is everything. ANd the more power a shinibi has, the greater their level even though this is not DBZ...

If you watch DBZ, then you know that super trunks far surpassed even perfect cell in power, but was too slow to compete thus easily lost to cell... The Lesson being, no matter how much power you have, if you do not have the speed to apply it or defend against the enemies attacks then it is useless...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 09-13-2013, 02:26 PM   #53
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

I love how he uses the same shopped panels to answer questions that weren't asked.

I'll try a way. KYF, you claim that hashirama's healing was automatic. Provide proof that explicitly states such. Until then, his healing is activated mentally, like all other jutsus that don't have hand seals.
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Old 09-13-2013, 02:42 PM   #54
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Kael I asked him for that 50 times already. All he does is show the same panel over an over which doesn't prove anything. Then he says why does Zetsu heal automatically? What a retard answering a question with a question.
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Old 09-13-2013, 02:49 PM   #55
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Meh...

Minato is a melee assassin type who's defensive ability lies soully in his speed. Minato from what we know simply can't tank hits. Minato relys on quick decisive striking to take down opponents however he lacks high level burst damage which is required to effectively take down tanks with high regan capability.

Hashirama is a long range burst damage AOE Mage while simultaneously also being a "Bruiser Tank" capable of one shooting people with a single punch. Coupled with his vastly superior combat experience, natural auto regan, and potentially limitless chakra supply because of Natural Energy Hashirama is the culmination of various combat styles all rolled up into one super dude.

If this were a video game Minato would be a max level Rogue/Assassin using moderately powerful gear bought off the shop keeper while Hashirama is a max level Combat Mage with end game gear found in the most difficult dungeons that has been +10 for maximum effectiveness. Simply put in a pvp situation the Rogue/Assassin(Minato) couldn't hope to best this opponent. His best and only real option would be to simply use his speed to run away from the fight altogether. Hashirama's massive burst damage AOE is simply the ideal counter against an opponent who likes to play keep away using superior speed. Hashirama's burst covers such a large area of the terrain it basically removes places Minato can even run to making his speed simply ineffective and/or useless in this situation.

Playing it by the numbers there's simply no way for Minato to defeat Hashirama.
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Old 09-13-2013, 03:44 PM   #56
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
Meh...

Minato is a melee assassin type who's defensive ability lies soully in his speed. Minato from what we know simply can't tank hits. Minato relys on quick decisive striking to take down opponents however he lacks high level burst damage which is required to effectively take down tanks with high regan capability.

Hashirama is a long range burst damage AOE Mage while simultaneously also being a "Bruiser Tank" capable of one shooting people with a single punch. Coupled with his vastly superior combat experience, natural auto regan, and potentially limitless chakra supply because of Natural Energy Hashirama is the culmination of various combat styles all rolled up into one super dude.

If this were a video game Minato would be a max level Rogue/Assassin using moderately powerful gear bought off the shop keeper while Hashirama is a max level Combat Mage with end game gear found in the most difficult dungeons that has been +10 for maximum effectiveness. Simply put in a pvp situation the Rogue/Assassin(Minato) couldn't hope to best this opponent. His best and only real option would be to simply use his speed to run away from the fight altogether. Hashirama's massive burst damage AOE is simply the ideal counter against an opponent who likes to play keep away using superior speed. Hashirama's burst covers such a large area of the terrain it basically removes places Minato can even run to making his speed simply ineffective and/or useless in this situation.

Playing it by the numbers there's simply no way for Minato to defeat Hashirama.
Though everything you stated is common sense, it has been offered to KYF, so here comes your set of panels over and over again.... He knows exactly his healing abilities, knows that he can hurt internally and die, but he still doesn't have an excuse for the scraped look on his own panel when he's talking about the Kyuubi. You've just fallen into the KYF Blackhole of redundancy.
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Old 09-13-2013, 05:36 PM   #57
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash
AO, yea, the faster you activate your muscles to move through faster synapses does nto increase your speed... Everyone's synapses and reflexes are the same thus it is because of Mrbig magic that people are faster then others...
How am I supposed to take your post when you think increased reflexes/nervous system will not increase speed...
Im actually laughing right now. You actually believing the nervous system is responsible for how fast someone can run?

You really have no idea what the hell you're talking about. All Humans have the exact same nervous system. the nervous system is directed by ion bridges forming potential electric energy that send eletrical signals to the brain.

The speed these ion bridges form is determined by the speed of transfer of electrons. THAT IS THE SAME FOR EVERYONE, it's a physical property of matter, it's not determined by someone's genes/DNA or how hard they train.

2. someone's nervous system isn't responsible for how fast they run.

Here's an article specifically detailing why some people are faster than others:
http://content.time.com/time/health/...835420,00.html


You are badly educated in this subject, instead of making shit up; you should actually research what the hell you're talking about cause when you don't you end up looking stupid. Im majoring in biotechnology so when you talk about biology like you know what you're talking about im just shaking my head in disgust.



Quote:
LMFAO, Madara was not far away, he was just not shown in the same panel where Raikage was, busy looking at tsunade get her ass kicked... WTF LOL!!!! Mokuton clone susanoo madara did not blitz to rakage and grab him up before he could react, while riakage was moving at full speed.

Madara mokuton clone just took advantage of a distracted raikage and grabbed him up, simple as that, shown by the manga clearly...

I mean, raikage is clearly standing still, bitching at tsunade about her fighting, not moving at top speed and a madara clone just happen to grab him up while he was distracted, there was no feat of speed for Madara's clone there LMAO...
You go on about reflexes yet you clearly know nothing about the subject. No matter how you put it. The raikage either got surprised by a simple clone and couldn't even react in time or Madara body flicker was fast enough to sneak up on the Raikage even with his faster reflex time caused by his lightning chakra.

Quote:
WHile in V1, rai's hair is down and aura is small while V2 Rai's hair sticks up and his lightning aura increases allot... this shows v1 on top and V2 on bottom to show the difference...
Lol for God sakes, and your conclusion is that it's 2 different modes of speed? You really believe that the raikage held back in a fight for his life and that of the ninja world, and that he also held back after Sasuke messed up his arm with his Amatseru (however you spell it)? my word. What?

Quote:
LMAO, if SM hashirama is as fast as you try to make him out to be. Madara should not of so easily caught hashirama... Hashi should of shushin'ed right past madara, but madara reacted, tracked anf flanked SM hashirama trying to get to Obito..
Edo tensei madara has the rinnegan and part of Hashimara in him, It wouldnt surprise me if he WAS faster than Hashimara concidering he's probably stronger right now too.


I love the way you use DragonballZ as a foundation for your entire speed vs power argument.

Like i've said before, fights are much more complicated than a simple speed vs power argument.
Hashimara has a perfect defense and a perfect reply to shinobi that rely on speed. His attacks affect a great area instantly. Basically Minato's only to hope at survival is to keep FTG'ing back and forth from the battlefield to avoid getting caught. The man would have no chance versus the first.


Naruto Kyuubi + sage mode > Minato any day.
Sage mode Hashimara would destroy minato.
Madara wouldn't even have to move to beat minato.
Obito could kill minato whenever he damn well feels like it.
Tobirama has shown little to nothing of his mastered water jutsus. Unlike Minato he has more up his sleeves than FTG'ing everywhere.

Last edited by MrBIG; 09-13-2013 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:05 AM   #58
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by MrBIG View Post
Im actually laughing right now. You actually believing the nervous system is responsible for how fast someone can run?

You really have no idea what the hell you're talking about. All Humans have the exact same nervous system. the nervous system is directed by ion bridges forming potential electric energy that send eletrical signals to the brain.

The speed these ion bridges form is determined by the speed of transfer of electrons. THAT IS THE SAME FOR EVERYONE, it's a physical property of matter, it's not determined by someone's genes/DNA or how hard they train.

2. someone's nervous system isn't responsible for how fast they run.

Here's an article specifically detailing why some people are faster than others:
http://content.time.com/time/health/...835420,00.html


You are badly educated in this subject, instead of making shit up; you should actually research what the hell you're talking about cause when you don't you end up looking stupid. Im majoring in biotechnology so when you talk about biology like you know what you're talking about im just shaking my head in disgust.





You go on about reflexes yet you clearly know nothing about the subject. No matter how you put it. The raikage either got surprised by a simple clone and couldn't even react in time or Madara body flicker was fast enough to sneak up on the Raikage even with his faster reflex time caused by his lightning chakra.



Lol for God sakes, and your conclusion is that it's 2 different modes of speed? You really believe that the raikage held back in a fight for his life and that of the ninja world, and that he also held back after Sasuke messed up his arm with his Amatseru (however you spell it)? my word. What?



Edo tensei madara has the rinnegan and part of Hashimara in him, It wouldnt surprise me if he WAS faster than Hashimara concidering he's probably stronger right now too.


I love the way you use DragonballZ as a foundation for your entire speed vs power argument.

Like i've said before, fights are much more complicated than a simple speed vs power argument.
Hashimara has a perfect defense and a perfect reply to shinobi that rely on speed. His attacks affect a great area instantly. Basically Minato's only to hope at survival is to keep FTG'ing back and forth from the battlefield to avoid getting caught. The man would have no chance versus the first.


Naruto Kyuubi + sage mode > Minato any day.
Sage mode Hashimara would destroy minato.
Madara wouldn't even have to move to beat minato.
Obito could kill minato whenever he damn well feels like it.
Tobirama has shown little to nothing of his mastered water jutsus. Unlike Minato he has more up his sleeves than FTG'ing everywhere.
While I agree, I've seen this movie... here comes your panels courtesy of KYF... notice have you seen much of KYF agreeing, even when he's been set out by Kishi as wrong. Panels incoming.

Btw if Obito can feel chakra in Sasukes EMS prior to an Amaretsu/Enton attack, why would anyone think that Minato can outspeed that? Wouldn't that be considered illogical by feats alone? Another thing, I remember everybody saying 'Oh with that Lightining Shield, Raichu is invulnerable to genjutsu attacks', guess those can move faster than Minato as well. Besides we've seen Minato save several people, as well as Tobirama with their speed, guess Raichu's speed feats are currently less than Naruto.... and he's the freaking Raikage.
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:49 AM   #59
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

I love this kind of threads.

I've fun reading posts above so .....

I find Minato as a ninja that can take down enemy in a short span of time (right combos and stuff) especially an enemy that lacks information on the one he's fighting with. But on Minato > Hashirama its blurry for me to happen when we know that Minato must have a contact with an enemy before using Hiraishin teq or throwing kunai to where the target is. Unlike the instant teleportation goku used in DBZ maybe it would be an instant kill or something. I know in a pvp the one who wins mostly are those who can outlast an enemy in a fight. Hashirama was called to be a God of shinobi or the strongest. "Strongest" not only revolve in speed and power but all that attributed to that person. So I believe, with all the post stated above, HASHIRAMA > MINATO.
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:38 PM   #60
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernzion View Post
I love this kind of threads.

I've fun reading posts above so .....

I find Minato as a ninja that can take down enemy in a short span of time (right combos and stuff) especially an enemy that lacks information on the one he's fighting with. But on Minato > Hashirama its blurry for me to happen when we know that Minato must have a contact with an enemy before using Hiraishin teq or throwing kunai to where the target is. Unlike the instant teleportation goku used in DBZ maybe it would be an instant kill or something. I know in a pvp the one who wins mostly are those who can outlast an enemy in a fight. Hashirama was called to be a God of shinobi or the strongest. "Strongest" not only revolve in speed and power but all that attributed to that person. So I believe, with all the post stated above, HASHIRAMA > MINATO.
But Hashirama has nothing more then average Kage level speed/reflexes, just a power house...(lol, MInato easily out shushin'ed hashirama by 30 seconds to battle field with base shushin) And having the most power does not make you the "most superior" shinobi....
Minato has the greatest speed of all shinobi for the ultimate offense and defense...

So it actually comes down to Speed vs Power/strength...

It comes down to two things basically... What happens first.. Does mInato with his speed/reflexes using even kage bushin to help merely TOUCH hashirama to be able to defeat him because once you are tagged, minato can defeat you at will plus being able to die to a Kunai means hashirama can actually be defeated by a mere Kunai...

Or does hashirama somehow keep from being even touched by minato without even the reaction speed to compete with mInato physically, much less using hirashin+physical speed, until MInato completely runs out of chakra and minato is easily as powerful as a couple base naruto's with stamina the same level as base naruto... SO that is not going to be easy...

Yea, the most likely scenario is that Minato TOUCHES hashirama, then can beat him at will with a Kunai strike...
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No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


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