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Old 09-18-2013, 05:32 PM   #76
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
When did I say that gravity doesn't cause planets to form? I'm studying astrophysics, why would I say something so blatantly retarded like that? That's one of the first things you learn is about formations of solar systems. Also, the only the only object that could possibly cause our planet to fracture would be another Mars sized object hitting us, and that planet is firmly locked in place by the sun's gravity. Has been for ~4.6 billion years, and will be for another 5iwh billion years until our Sun turns into a red giant. Another thing, a planet's core "destabilizing" wouldn't produce enough of an explosive force to send the remnants out of the solar system. The only thing that produces that kind of energy is a star that is, at least, 9 times the mass of our Sun.

In short, quit being retarded and trying to suggest that there is a remote possibility that asteroids deposited the bones of dinosaurs. I'll give you a hint: there isn't.
Well there you go.. despite the factors that would cause some of earths remains to end up elsewhere .. it is possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vKChIq5CRU because other fragments of life end up here.

Now to bring this back to my original point which is going to seem foreign to you since you're an atheist. the point was about creation.. if you noted in my post to emachina God would create this planet using material that already existed .. much like michaelangelo created David from marble. so using material that was already in the universe God "may have created" the planet using debris from a dead planet and positioned it where it is now to support life on our planet.

this was just a think outside the box exercise nothing more nothing less
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for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

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Old 09-18-2013, 05:38 PM   #77
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Come on dude. Using ancient aliens to back up your argument ?

I've watched every episode of that series for the sheer hilarity levels. The people who believe that shit credit almost every thing humans have accomplished to aliens. I'm surprised they haven't claimed that aliens taught us primitives how to wipe our asses after taking a dump in antiquity. Hell, that might happen down the line since swords are apparently alien tech given to us to slaughter each other.
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:39 PM   #78
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Um...learn to read. It isn't just a remote possibility. The odds are nonexistent due to the forces of the universe that the planet was created by remnants of another planet. Especially since we have seen how solar systems form from studying different nebula.

Long story short: cloud of atoms evenly dispersed in a region of space. Something causes a group to move closer, which causes their respective gravities to attract each other, which causes them to grow closer and form protoplanets and stars, depenging on the density of the atomic clusters.
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:38 PM   #79
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
Come on dude. Using ancient aliens to back up your argument ?

I've watched every episode of that series for the sheer hilarity levels. The people who believe that shit credit almost every thing humans have accomplished to aliens. I'm surprised they haven't claimed that aliens taught us primitives how to wipe our asses after taking a dump in antiquity. Hell, that might happen down the line since swords are apparently alien tech given to us to slaughter each other.
I wasn't using the ancient aliens thing in any way other than for the small part of the clip that shoes that material not from this planet can be found on this planet. PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC AND THROW ALL IRRELEVANT BULLSHIT TO THE SIDE!!

The majority of you guys nitpick at the small things.. not saying you're doing so.. just be cautious and make sure that everyone is on the same page as to not accuse others of false beliefs or statements.

Quote:
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Um...learn to read. It isn't just a remote possibility. The odds are nonexistent due to the forces of the universe that the planet was created by remnants of another planet. Especially since we have seen how solar systems form from studying different nebula.

Long story short: cloud of atoms evenly dispersed in a region of space. Something causes a group to move closer, which causes their respective gravities to attract each other, which causes them to grow closer and form protoplanets and stars, depenging on the density of the atomic clusters.
Now as for you .. go back to my post where I stated you would have a hard time grasping this concept I'm trying to explain ( and you're proving me right on that assumption) that this would be beyond your comprehension as an ATHEIST.

First in order to grasp my original concept of God using material already in the universe to CREATE... much in the way my explanation of Michelangelo and David .. Michelangelo CREATED the statue but not the Marble. One need the prerequisite of first believing there is a God.

God took what was readily available to form the planet.. but to even get a hold of this idea you would have to acknowledge the existence of God which goes against your beliefs ** yes atheism is a belief**

To integrate some science into the topic Because its my belief that science and religion don't contradict one another I stated the law of conservation of mass and energy.. and to further my point i stated To Emachina and the OP that i responded to that God having knowledge and that knowledge granting him power ( much in the same respect that your knowledge as a physicist allows you to do things a person without that knowledge can do thus giving you power to lets say.. collide particles and what not. That given Gods knowledge/power he took space debris. molded it together much in the same way a child takes dirt and rocks and makes a mud pie.

Did the kid create the dirt.. No.. but he did create the mud pie.

this is my point nothing more nothing less so your comments about the shit not being remotely possible is a non-factor since you lack the required materials( belief in God) to stay on topic.

So given the fact that we have found organic material on earth that didn't originate from here, the POSSIBILITY that sometime in the distant future earth through whatever means gets destroyed and then reconstituted into another heavenly body; then billions of years later that new planets inhabitants dig into the soil and find human remains. they would most likely end up hypothesising about us.. like we do about the dinosaurs.




thank you and good evening!
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for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

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Old 09-18-2013, 10:01 PM   #80
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

yeah... no.

1. First of all there is no proof that extra-terrestial organic life exists on earth. If so, please provide a real source and not some joke crap you've found in Ancient aliens.

2. Dinosaurs don't come from other planets: During the creation of a planet the forces gravity causes to much pressure with one an another and the tempatures they create (that molds the proto-planet into spherical form) would destroy any type of fossil or organic life traces - and that's implying they even somehow managed to stay intact in the vacuum of space being bombarded by radiation of the Sun in an environment close to 0 Kelvin.

Not to mention in the early stages of earths synthesis, the entire planet is in fusion (the tempature is so high everything is either evaporating or melting). There is absolutely ZERO chance of anything "surviving" these events.

3. Dinosaurs dont come from other planets (part 2): We can trace the evolutionary paths of birds and reptiles back to the dinosaurs and see how they evolved to the species we know today. So by your hypothesis, if dinosaurs are aliens; so are we and everything to have ever existed on this planet.

4. Keep religion and science seperate PLEASE. I am a christian, I do believe in God. But Understand there are fundamental differences. One addresses the spiritual (if you believe in that) the other addresses the physical world.

Don't try to force God or your spiritual beliefs onto scientific concepts. Science has no belief system. Claiming that God created such and such as scientific hypothesis is non-sense without proof.

My moral beliefs and how I choose to live my life comes from my christian upbringing.
My mind and how I choose to analytically understand the physical proprieties of the world comes from knowledge gained through science.


Your posting a lot of non sense right now and it makes us more modern Christians look really bad. :\

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Old 09-18-2013, 10:03 PM   #81
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

So...according to you, in order to follow what you are trying to say one has to believe in a delusion created to control the masses? Because that's what religion is. I'm going to stick with "wow, you're stupid". I've explained, in detail, how you are wrong. I'm not wasting anymore breath on your ridiculous idea.

Also, for your shot saying atheism is a belief, it's not. There are no tenets, no rites and rituals, no common lore involved. It's a stance on a single subject, the existence of God. Atheism simply means "no God". Atheists, by and large, hold that sufficient evidence for the existence of God hasn't been presented. So, using Occam's Razor, God doesn't exist. If evidence is presented, actual and verifiable evidence (i.e., not fucking everything that has been used as "evidence", that's another story.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:19 PM   #82
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by MrBIG View Post
yeah... no.

1. First of all there is no proof that extra-terrestial organic life exists on earth. If so, please provide a real source and not some joke crap you've found in Ancient aliens.

2. Dinosaurs don't come from other planets: During the creation of a planet the forces gravity causes to much pressure with one an another and the tempatures they create (that molds the proto-planet into spherical form) would destroy any type of fossil or organic life traces - and that's implying they even somehow managed to stay intact in the vacuum of space being bombarded by radiation of the Sun in an environment close to 0 Kelvin.

3. Dinosaurs dont come from other planets (part 2): We can trace the evolutionary paths of birds and reptiles back to the dinosaurs and see how they evolved to the species we know today. So by your hypothesis, if dinosaurs are aliens; so are we and everything to have ever existed on this planet.

4. Keep religion and science seperate PLEASE. I am a christian, I do believe in God. But Understand there are fundamental differences. One addresses the spiritual (if you believe in that) the other addresses the physical world.

Don't try to force God or your spiritual beliefs onto scientific concepts. Science has no belief system. Claiming that God created such and such as scientific hypothesis is non-sense without proof.

My moral beliefs and how I choose to live my life comes from my christian upbringing.
My mind and how I choose to analytically understand the physical proprieties of the world comes from knowledge gained through science.


Your posting a lot of non sense right now and it makes us more modern Christians look really bad. :\
please go back and read liondemos post that i responded to. the explanatiosn that I have given all stem form a single point in his post and if not taken into context.. it's going to cause this distortion of what I'm saying .. much like what is happening now

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
So...according to you, in order to follow what you are trying to say one has to believe in a delusion created to control the masses? Because that's what religion is. I'm going to stick with "wow, you're stupid". I've explained, in detail, how you are wrong. I'm not wasting anymore breath on your ridiculous idea.

Also, for your shot saying atheism is a belief, it's not. There are no tenets, no rites and rituals, no common lore involved. It's a stance on a single subject, the existence of God. Atheism simply means "no God". Atheists, by and large, hold that sufficient evidence for the existence of God hasn't been presented. So, using Occam's Razor, God doesn't exist. If evidence is presented, actual and verifiable evidence (i.e., not fucking everything that has been used as "evidence", that's another story.
Athiesm is a belief.. you believe ther eisn't a god.. you have no proof that there isn't one like I have no proof that he exists..

Now what I said about you needeing a beleif in God to understand my argument still stands because to take it any other way takes it out of context.
AGAIN MY POINT TO LIONDEMON WAS: (in regards to his statement about dinosaurs and humans) WAS RELIGIOUSLY SPEAKING AND WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT IT MEANS TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT GOD TOOK READILY AVAILABLE MATERIAL THAT COULD HAVE HAD DINOSAUR FOSSILS IN IT TO CREATE OUR PLANET.

NOW STILL IN THE BELIEF THAT GOD IS ALL KNOWING AND POWERFUL HE WOULD HAVE KNOWLEDGE TO FUSE SOME ASTEROIDS TOGETHER WITHOUT ALL OF THE FUCKING BONES TURNING TO MUSH DIAMONDS OIL ECT WHICH "COULD BE A REASON WHY WE FIND THEM ON EARTH."

Taking my statement any other way means were not talking about the same thing and the two arguments are on separate tangents

I have nothign more to say on the matter as I see where this is going and I wont give you sons of bitches the satisfaction

back on topic topic there are too many variables in a speed vs power debate that isn't framed properly. set a sceen weapons battle prowess ect and then see what outcomes are possible.. hell hashi could just use mokuton and locate all of minatos markings and fling them into outter space.. fight over.. soon as he warps he looses oxygen and dies
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for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

The power of despair is great in you.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlzx4...&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3qkz4WfOto

LOL I'M DYING BACK HERE

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Old 09-18-2013, 10:19 PM   #83
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
So...according to you, in order to follow what you are trying to say one has to believe in a delusion created to control the masses? Because that's what religion is. I'm going to stick with "wow, you're stupid". I've explained, in detail, how you are wrong. I'm not wasting anymore breath on your ridiculous idea.

Also, for your shot saying atheism is a belief, it's not. There are no tenets, no rites and rituals, no common lore involved. It's a stance on a single subject, the existence of God. Atheism simply means "no God". Atheists, by and large, hold that sufficient evidence for the existence of God hasn't been presented. So, using Occam's Razor, God doesn't exist. If evidence is presented, actual and verifiable evidence (i.e., not fucking everything that has been used as "evidence", that's another story.
Atheism is a belief of gods non-existence. You don't need tenets, rites or rituals to hold a belief.

The same way there is no subjective scientific evidence of morality. You believe in your concept of what is good and what is wrong is just.

Atheism isn't a sect or some sort of religion but it is a belief.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:27 PM   #84
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
please go back and read liondemos post that i responded to. the explanatiosn that I have given all stem form a single point in his post and if not taken into context.. it's going to cause this distortion of what I'm saying .. much like what is happening now
I did and im saying this makes no sense:

Quote:
One explanation for Dinosaur bones could be that God took pieces of another planet with an extinct race of giants and the conditions were made right for humans to be supported as a life form.
No. It's not an explanation. We KNOW how planets are formed

Quote:
Much like billions of years from now after earth explodes and the debris is cast across the universe and chunks get sucked into a gravitational field and a new planet is formed. another billion years would pass and the lifeforms on that planet will find human bones in the soil.
None of our remnants would be able to exist in the vacuum of space nor in the creation of the proto-planet itself. High pressures and temperatures make that impossible.
If your solution is that "God is all knowing and powerful so he can do it" then it's not an explanation at all and it will never be accepted as even a valid discussion topic.

Don't force religion in topics that don't utilize it. Like I said, im Christian and this is a whole lot of non-sense. I believe in God but I find your entire premise ridiculous.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:53 PM   #85
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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I did and im saying this makes no sense:



No. It's not an explanation. We KNOW how planets are formed



None of our remnants would be able to exist in the vacuum of space nor in the creation of the proto-planet itself. High pressures and temperatures make that impossible.
If your solution is that "God is all knowing and powerful so he can do it" then it's not an explanation at all and it will never be accepted as even a valid discussion topic.

Don't force religion in topics that don't utilize it. Like I said, im Christian and this is a whole lot of non-sense. I believe in God but I find your entire premise ridiculous.
thats the thing thothe waffling between belief and what you know from science makes you seperate things much in the manner that you stated that you seperate the two. it is MY BELIEF that the two dont have ot contradict one another.

focus in on what it means to create. you can create a hous a blanket thread or whatever you want but you dont cause the seperate materials of said blanket to exist. you create using whats already there.

it is MY BELIEF that GOD created our planet galaxy using what was already there ** now I'm not gettin into the where god came from thing**

staying in the same realm of belief dispensation it wouldn't be far fetched to say that god balled up some rocks and made our planet .. still on that same line of reasoning or thinking it would give a reason for dinosaurs being here.. just one possibility.

Now scientifically speaking the story looks nothing like that. thats why i said it would be difficult for Kael to see my point.

and i rephrase my earlier statements.. you need two things to understand my point. 1 a belief in God and 2 an understand of what it means to create something
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for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

The power of despair is great in you.



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Old 09-18-2013, 10:58 PM   #86
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by MrBIG View Post
Atheism is a belief of gods non-existence. You don't need tenets, rites or rituals to hold a belief.

Atheism isn't a sect or some sort of religion but it is a belief.
Actually, it is not a belief. A belief in something means that you know it to be true, without evidence that it is. Atheism is a logical stance on the subject of the existence of God. Atheists, because of a lack of concrete and scientifically verifiable evidence, hold to the conclusion that God does not exist. It is not a belief. What you are thinking of, is anti-theism. Atheists don't claim anything about God's existence, they just say "you haven't met your burden of proof". Anti-theists say "God doesn't exist".

If you're confused by that, think of it this way. With the subject of the existence of God, there are 2 stances. God either 1) exists or 2) does not exist. Atheism only focuses on point 1. The argument then becomes subject to the burden of proof. Atheism holding to the null hypothesis that evidence doesn't support that a God exists.

Anti-theism focuses on point 2. In other words, God does not exist. End of story.

I'm an Atheist. I hold to the conclusion that theists have not met their burden of proof that a God exists. Atheism is NOT a belief. Any more than evolution is NOT a belief.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
Athiesm is a belief.. you believe ther eisn't a god.. you have no proof that there isn't one like I have no proof that he exists..
I suggest you look up the definitions of atheism and anti-theism. I don't believe there isn't a god. I hold to the fact that theists, making the positive claim that a God exists, have not met their burden of proof for that claim to be held true. But nice try in attempting to put words in my mouth.

Back to "wow, you're stupid" in regards to the whole planet forming thing. Especially since it's been proven that the conditions of a still forming planet means the crust isn't even solid. The earth was a giant molten ball of super heated rock (think lava on steroids) with an atmospheric pressure similar to that of Venus (~92 times the pressure of our own atmosphere at sea level). So, on top of the asteroid bombardment not even leaving lasting impressions on the surface, the rocks would've been warped and melted beyond recognition for "fossil evidence" such as dinosaur bones to have lasted 4 billion years.

Tl;dr - read a god damn book and stay away from lolhistorychannel and dafuqdiscovery (two words: Amish Mafia)

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Old 09-18-2013, 11:27 PM   #87
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

now back to youre a moron.. I already addressed that if you take it out of the realm of a belief in god then you cant argue or discuss what I'm talking about because you wont be on the same page.. I already covered the "actual scientific facts" my argument was and will always remain available to thos with a belief in God ...whats so fucking hard to get about that.. not every argument is for you kael.. sit this one out.

Now as to athiesm being a belief one simple question. You say there isn't proof enough that God exists due to a thiest not coming up with enough evidence. not enough evidence means you don't know for a fact. now when you dont know that only leaves specualtion which any theory is.. you either believe it or dont. superstring is a theory but I bet you have a stance on it. you either believe or dont.. if there isn't enough evidence then you must come to the conclusion that there isn't a god. but without proof either way this would be just a belief.. so which is it..

since you or the theists have no proof you are either for or against and without evidence whatever side of the argument you land on is a belief because it isn't fact.. if it were a fact there would be no debate.

so

do you Believe in god or not.. simple question with a yes I do or I do not for an answer.

which do you choose and Picachu aint an option



for fucks sake where is MIBS WHEN YOU NEED HIM!!
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for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

The power of despair is great in you.



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LOL I'M DYING BACK HERE

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Old 09-18-2013, 11:46 PM   #88
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Atheism is lack of belief, not belief in a lacking. If one claims that there cannot be any manner of God or what have you, that is a belief in lacking.

Atheism in its purest, most logically sound state, is a state of nonexistence of faith. I do not think that there is a God, and I lack any belief that would override that thinking. I also do not think that the existence of God has in any way been disproved or, indeed, could ever be disproved. In this case, I also do not have a belief that would cause me to make the illogical leap of claiming that God cannot exist.

Belief is inherently outside the realm of logic. If you reach a conclusion via true premises and logically sound reasoning, it is not a belief. That is thought. Belief, in this context, is essentially synonymous with faith. Faith is convincing oneself of something without regard for true premises or logically sound reasoning. There is no faith involved in reasoning that no proof exists for God's existence, thus there is not a logical basis for trusting the positive claim that He exists. There also isn't a direct logical basis for actively denying the existence of God, as such conclusions are drawn outside of logically sound reasoning.

Learn your shit. Stop bitching about this.
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:01 AM   #89
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

How did we go from speed vs. power/strength to theism and atheism/anti-theism?

True believers in any religion believe because of their experiences (or lack thereof). People who are "raised" in religions usually aren't the practicing type and usually fall under the agnostic group. But back to harping on atheism... should it not be called adeism? I mean theism is the belief in "one" God. Atheism is the belief in no gods. I know I'm nitpicking, but that's the fun part, ain't it?

Edit:
And just for argument's sake, please... no one use wikipedia as a freaking reference point. I just literally found two pages for theism, both with different definitions/meanings to the principle. Wiki... imperfection does not bring about perfection.

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Old 09-19-2013, 01:06 AM   #90
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Atheism is the belief that there is no evidence of God (and there will never be evidence of his existence), thus he does not exist.


Quote:
Atheism is a logical stance on the subject of the existence of God. Atheists, because of a lack of concrete and scientifically verifiable evidence, hold to the conclusion that God does not exist.
What you're looking for is Agnosticism not atheism.
If you don't reject the notion that a god or gods may possibly exist, you are not an atheist but fall into weak agnosticism or strong agnosticism.

Maybe you even fall into atheistic agnosticism.

If you did your research you would know that there's different types of atheisms. Atheistic people don't necessarily agree with each other meaning they hold different beliefs and is not at all a 100% logical thought.

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Belief is inherently outside the realm of logic. If you reach a conclusion via true premises and logically sound reasoning, it is not a belief.
this argument is severly flawed, a lot of laws and accepted norms of society are entirely based on a beliefs yet remain logical.

For example your sense of right or wrong aren't inherent to the human being. You aren't born with these notions however your moral beliefs are logical to you.

Concepts like equality and freedom, Justice, etc.. are all based on beliefs there is no scientific evidence that freedom or equality is right (throughout history the strongest nations used slave work as recent as the US and now China).

Most of our moral conduct is based on what we believe to be right, for example Monogamy.

I can keep going on and on about this, but believing in something is not synonymous with illogical thought.

Last edited by MrBIG; 09-19-2013 at 01:08 AM.
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