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Old 09-19-2013, 01:57 AM   #91
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Just so that there isnt any confusion that I'm willing to look at other viewpoints to see where others are comming from I turn to Bill http://www.fandom.com/forums/showthr...=205453&page=5 still after

But Atheism is the belief that there is no evidence of God (and there will never be evidence of his existence), thus he does not exist. which is obviously a belief.. not that its a Belief systym but it is a belief since it is not factual things are either a belief http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief?s=t or a fact http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact?s=t

Theists have fact and Belief in their arguments where agnostics and atheists have only facts. but facts are limited by the means which can cause them to be true. I e it wasn't a fact that water boils at 100 degrees until it was witnessed and recorded.


anyway as bill put it I know you are but what am I .. and being an American first and foremost I'm going to accept your right and privilege to think what you will.
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:36 AM   #92
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Funny how HR completely ignored my post.

Speaking of ignoring, Mr Big jumped into the fray and I was actually curious about what he had to say and, well, his pretense of knowing what the fuck he's talking about is still there.

Quote:
Quote:
Atheism is a logical stance on the subject of the existence of God. Atheists, because of a lack of concrete and scientifically verifiable evidence, hold to the conclusion that God does not exist.
What you're looking for is Agnosticism not atheism.
If you don't reject the notion that a god or gods may possibly exist, you are not an atheist but fall into weak agnosticism or strong agnosticism.
Wow, you're stupid. Agnosticism and atheism aren't exclusive terms, they are intersecting because they are answers to two different questions.
  1. (A)gnosticism answers to the question "do you KNOW there is/are god(s)?"
  2. (A)theism answers to the question "do you BELIEVE there is/are god(s)?"
So one can be an agnostic atheist and, in a matter of fact, most atheists ARE agnostic atheists. It's just that many anti-theists (that are mostly gnostic atheists) are incredibly vocal and less aware people somehow conflate anti-theism with atheism which is a clear fallacy.


Quote:
If you did your research you would know that there's different types of atheisms. Atheistic people don't necessarily agree with each other meaning they hold different beliefs and is not at all a 100% logical thought.
And if you actually did your research, you'd know that anti-theism =/= atheism, you'd reference spiritual atheism (some sects of Buddhism are atheistic by nature) and you'd know that the atheist community is more than aware that atheists hold different beliefs, but the lack of belief in a deity is a their common trait.

Also, atheism IS the most logical of stances when it comes to the (lack of) belief in deities, because it ignores what is pretty much an argument from ignorance. But before you gnash your teeth in rage, that doesn't mean theism is wrong, since the existence of deities is possible, it simply does a leap of logic.

Finally, the lack of belief in something can't be a belief by design, so stop calling atheism the belief it isn't. Also, you can't ignore the context kael is putting belief in (a religious/metaphysical one), so you bringing up morality is pretty much a non-sequitur. And morality IS inherent to human beings, due to both evolutionary and social causes.




PS:


Quote:
Just so that there isnt any confusion that I'm willing to look at other viewpoints to see where others are comming from I turn to Bill http://www.fandom.com/forums/showthr...=205453&page=5 still after
Errr, I think you placed the wrong link. And I sincerely hope for your own good that "Bill" isn't either Bill O'Reilly or William Lane Craig, or else you would just hurt even further your point.

Quote:
But Atheism is the belief that there is no evidence of God (and there will never be evidence of his existence), thus he does not exist. which is obviously a belief.
Again, confusing atheism with anti-theism. And KNOWING there is yet to be found evidence of God isn't a belief.

Quote:
but facts are limited by the means which can cause them to be true. I e it wasn't a fact that water boils at 100 degrees until it was witnessed and recorded.
You really couldn't find a worse example for your case, considering that the Celsius system was designed around the temperatures water freezes and boils, so no shit it wasn't a fact water boiled at 100ēC before the system was designed.

But so what if facts are limited to the knowledge of human beings? They're the tools Humanity works with, it's nigh difficult or even impossible to work with ignorance, don't you think?
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:57 AM   #93
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Funny how HR completely ignored my post.

Wow, you're stupid. Agnosticism and atheism aren't exclusive terms, they are intersecting because they are answers to two different questions.
  1. (A)gnosticism answers to the question "do you KNOW there is/are god(s)?"
  2. (A)theism answers to the question "do you BELIEVE there is/are god(s)?"
So one can be an agnostic atheist and, in a matter of fact, most atheists ARE agnostic atheists.
Agnosticism:

"a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not"

Atheism:
"a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity"



Not to mention once again you prove that you aren't capable of reading at all. You only see what you want to see.

What I said:

Quote:
Maybe you even fall into atheistic agnosticism.

If you did your research you would know that there's different types of atheisms. Atheistic people don't necessarily agree with each other meaning they hold different beliefs and is not at all a 100% logical thought.




Quote:
And if you actually did your research, you'd know that anti-theism =/= atheism, you'd reference spiritual atheism (some sects of Buddhism are atheistic by nature) and you'd know that the atheist community is more than aware that atheists hold different beliefs, but the lack of belief in a deity is a their common trait.

1. Just like it's possible to be an agnostic atheist, it is very much possible to also be an anti-theist and atheist at the same time.

Look into Positive/Strong atheism. They explicitly do not believe any deities exists.

2. My argument is that atheism is a belief. And you just agreed with me in this quote.



Quote:
Finally, the lack of belief in something can't be a belief by design, so stop calling atheism the belief it isn't.
You YOURSELF JUST CALLED atheism a belief. Lack of belief in something with no evidence to disprove or prove its case is in fact a belief.

Quote:
Also, you can't ignore the context kael is putting belief in (a religious/metaphysical one),
Religion for very long and still is for billions around a globe a provider in moral values.

This is the reason I brought up morals.

Quote:
And morality IS inherent to human beings, due to both evolutionary and social causes.
Couldn't be further from the truth. Now different moral behaviors is part of Darwin's evolutionary theory? what the hell?

So people with good morals are selected for while the ones with bad morals are eliminated from the gene pool????? You're evolutionary claim would mean that morals are genetic.

Evolution has nothing to do with societies ability to change its view points.

LOL it's funny how you use "societal causes" as base for your claim that morals are inherent to human beings. That doesn't make sense AT ALL.

Yes the society you are born in will shape your moral beliefs but in no way is a baby born with these beliefs already inherited from their parents.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:19 AM   #94
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBIG View Post
Agnosticism:

"a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not"

Atheism:
"a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity"
Sure, let's cherry-pick definitions for agnostic, that sure won't backfire...

Quote:
agˇnosˇtic n.
1. a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.
Quote:
Gnostic is related to the Greek word gnosis, "knowledge," which was used by early Christian writers to mean "higher, esoteric knowledge of spiritual things"; hence, Gnostic referred to those with such knowledge.
In other words, agnostic simply refers to the lack of knowledge of whether a deity exists or not. It has simply been misused in the past because of both fear of the atheist label or ignorance that atheism and agnosticism do intersect.

Oh, by the way, here's a quick link for you to start acknowledging what's being said.

Quote:
Not to mention once again you prove that you aren't capable of reading at all. You only see what you want to see.

What I said:
And you pull a quote I wasn't referring to attempt making me look bad. Such intellectual honesty! I was referring to the quote of kael saying what is pretty much the definition of an agnostic atheist and you saying "oh, that's not atheism, that's agnosticism". No matter how you backpedal from this, you pretty much separated atheism from agnosticism when they are intersecting and then you conflated the definition of anti-theism with atheism.

Quote:
1. Just like it's possible to be an agnostic atheist, it is very much possible to also be an anti-theist and atheist at the same time.

Look into Positive/Strong atheism. They explicitly do not believe any deities exists.
Wow, you're stupid. For someone saying I can't read, you aren't that skilled in the reading habits either. I actually pointed out that anti-theists were mostly gnostic atheist, thus saying that anti-theism and atheism are also intersecting just like agnosticism and atheism are. The point I'm making and you clearly are ignoring is that anti-theism and atheism aren't synonymous.

Quote:
2. My argument is that atheism is a belief. And you just agreed with me in this quote.
Sorry for repeating myself, but wow, you're stupid. Atheists do hold different beliefs but I didn't mention they were about atheism itself, you dolt. Some atheists hold beliefs that also are answers to the metaphysical, like knowing there is no God or that spirits exist. HOWEVER, the rest of atheists do not hold such belief and is not by some atheists holding such beliefs that will make atheism a belief. A belief requires a positive statement, and atheism is a negative statement, therefore incompatible only by itself with the concept of belief.

Quote:
Lack of belief in something with no evidence to disprove or prove its case is in fact a belief.
Except it isn't. Again I say, a belief requires a positive statement as basis. It's illogical to make a negative claim a belief, or else the word "disbelief" wouldn't exist.

Quote:
Religion for very long and still is for billions around a globe a provider in moral values.

This is the reason I brought up morals.
So you're mixing apples and oranges just because they happen to be fruits. Also morality is independent of religion, so please don't come with non-sequitur and stick to the topic.

Quote:
Couldn't be further from the truth. Now different moral behaviors is part of Darwin's evolutionary theory? what the hell?

So people with good morals are selected for while the ones with bad morals are eliminated from the gene pool????? You're evolutionary claim would mean that morals are genetic.

Evolution has nothing to do with societies ability to change its view points.
Not now, that humans achieved civilization, but before that evolution DID have a part to play in our morals and it still does in other species. The instinct of protecting the young, of working for the clan/pride/colony/etc and not just oneself, of not aimlessly slaughter individuals of the same species, these are the foundations of morals because doing that would promote the propagation of the species instead of its demise.

So yes, our morals can be traced back to Darwinian principals, they just, pardon the pun, evolved from them with civilization and society.

Quote:
LOL it's funny how you use "societal causes" as base for your claim that morals are inherent to human beings. That doesn't make sense AT ALL.

Yes the society you are born in will shape your moral beliefs but in no way is a baby born with these beliefs already inherited from their parents.
Funny how you quickly go for the ridicule without even thinking of the simple fact that humans have the capacity of learning (and teaching) and that they already have the basis of morals hardwired in their brain due to evolutionary processes. Not only that, morality has been an heirloom from generation to generation, always changing. If humans didn't have an inherent capacity for morals, how could newer generations modify the morality of older generations?
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:18 PM   #95
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

WTF happen here... HR, what did you do???
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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Old 09-19-2013, 01:21 PM   #96
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
WTF happen here... HR, what did you do???
Made way for a better discussion topic?
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:21 PM   #97
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Sure, let's cherry-pick definitions for agnostic, that sure won't backfire...

In other words, agnostic simply refers to the lack of knowledge of whether a deity exists or not. It has simply been misused in the past because of both fear of the atheist label or ignorance that atheism and agnosticism do intersect.

Oh, by the way, here's a quick link for you to start acknowledging what's being said.

And you pull a quote I wasn't referring to attempt making me look bad. Such intellectual honesty! I was referring to the quote of kael saying what is pretty much the definition of an agnostic atheist and you saying "oh, that's not atheism, that's agnosticism". No matter how you backpedal from this, you pretty much separated atheism from agnosticism when they are intersecting and then you conflated the definition of anti-theism with atheism.

Wow, you're stupid. For someone saying I can't read, you aren't that skilled in the reading habits either. I actually pointed out that anti-theists were mostly gnostic atheist, thus saying that anti-theism and atheism are also intersecting just like agnosticism and atheism are. The point I'm making and you clearly are ignoring is that anti-theism and atheism aren't synonymous.

Sorry for repeating myself, but wow, you're stupid. Atheists do hold different beliefs but I didn't mention they were about atheism itself, you dolt. Some atheists hold beliefs that also are answers to the metaphysical, like knowing there is no God or that spirits exist. HOWEVER, the rest of atheists do not hold such belief and is not by some atheists holding such beliefs that will make atheism a belief. A belief requires a positive statement, and atheism is a negative statement, therefore incompatible only by itself with the concept of belief.

Except it isn't. Again I say, a belief requires a positive statement as basis. It's illogical to make a negative claim a belief, or else the word "disbelief" wouldn't exist.

So you're mixing apples and oranges just because they happen to be fruits. Also morality is independent of religion, so please don't come with non-sequitur and stick to the topic.

Not now, that humans achieved civilization, but before that evolution DID have a part to play in our morals and it still does in other species. The instinct of protecting the young, of working for the clan/pride/colony/etc and not just oneself, of not aimlessly slaughter individuals of the same species, these are the foundations of morals because doing that would promote the propagation of the species instead of its demise.

So yes, our morals can be traced back to Darwinian principals, they just, pardon the pun, evolved from them with civilization and society.

Funny how you quickly go for the ridicule without even thinking of the simple fact that humans have the capacity of learning (and teaching) and that they already have the basis of morals hardwired in their brain due to evolutionary processes. Not only that, morality has been an heirloom from generation to generation, always changing. If humans didn't have an inherent capacity for morals, how could newer generations modify the morality of older generations?
Just want to correct one thing...

Humans are hardwired with INSTINCTS!!! Not morals... Those come later in life, developed as a super Ego... as freud put it... Instincts are what we a reborn with... Do not know why you would argue against this... a litte much for even you...
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:21 PM   #98
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

For once he made the thread interesting.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:39 PM   #99
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
WTF happen here... HR, what did you do???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Made way for a better discussion topic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Just want to correct one thing...

Humans are hardwired with INSTINCTS!!! Not morals... Those come later in life, developed as a super Ego... as freud put it... Instincts are what we a reborn with... Do not know why you would argue against this... a litte much for even you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
For once he made the thread interesting.
Sorry guys my bad..lol

but its funny how no matter what you start off with these debates end up on religion or Nazi's and Hitler




Looks around for gestapo

Ps to Numinous. I didn't respond to your post with the whole break down of the the planet being reconstituted directly because I answered it in a reply to Mr Big. and I didn't adress the where did God come from thing but one thought that I have is "god" may have existed outside of our universe and dimention before he snapped his finger and created the big bang.

MY PERSONAL BELIEF AND UNDERSTANDING is that God existed in his dimention learned shit and evolved or shoudl I say progressed to the level of diety by gaining knowledge and once he aquired said knowledge he gained the ability to create a universe . so he stuck his jiffy pop on the stove and our universe cooked and expanded. he took some popcorn kernals and mashed them together with marshmellow and our shit molded and were just lil bacteria on his rice krispy treat.. dude doesn't eve know were here.. lol

Please be able to see the joke humor and sarcasm here
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for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

The power of despair is great in you.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlzx4...&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3qkz4WfOto

LOL I'M DYING BACK HERE

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Old 09-19-2013, 01:54 PM   #100
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Just want to correct one thing...

Humans are hardwired with INSTINCTS!!! Not morals... Those come later in life, developed as a super Ego... as freud put it... Instincts are what we a reborn with... Do not know why you would argue against this... a litte much for even you...
Just want to correct one thing. Humans are hardwired for both. Instincts help the individual survive to propagate. Morals, or the process of good for the group, are for the species to propagate. Also, you don't want it use Freud and psychoanalysis. Most psychologists shy from it because it is ineffective treatment wise, and most of the theories Freud claimed to have proven were either untestable, or hadn't been tested.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:21 PM   #101
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Just want to correct one thing. Humans are hardwired for both. Instincts help the individual survive to propagate. Morals, or the process of good for the group, are for the species to propagate. Also, you don't want it use Freud and psychoanalysis. Most psychologists shy from it because it is ineffective treatment wise, and most of the theories Freud claimed to have proven were either untestable, or hadn't been tested.
Lol, a frued critic who believes that MORALS are also hardwired like INSTINCTS when it is proven otherwise... Even frued recognized that INSTINCTS are the ID, the first thing a child already has that is based on the pleasure principle and sets out to fulfill instant gratification... ANd he is right about this...
A 3 year old does not give a shit about anything other then his/herself and their desires. They do not have ANY Morals what so ever, just desires. Just showing evidence that Morals are not hardwired into us through evolution or what ever you would call it if you are religious.

Morals are learned over time through family, friends and teachers in their environment as frued recognized developing the last part of the human psyche, the super ego..

ANd while frueds idea of the super ego might be theory, it does prove more acceptable then most other forms of psychology pertaining to the understanding of mental process/behavior and meaning of dreams...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:40 PM   #102
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Sure, let's cherry-pick definitions for agnostic, that sure won't backfire...

In other words, agnostic simply refers to the lack of knowledge of whether a deity exists or not. It has simply been misused in the past because of both fear of the atheist label or ignorance that atheism and agnosticism do intersect.
How is this any different than the definition I posted? What on earth are you even trying to argue here?

yes agnonistics people do not have a definite answer wether god exists or not so they don't bother with the question.

I haven't claimed anything differently.

[quote]
Oh, by the way, here's a quick link for you to start acknowledging what's being said.

Quote:
And you pull a quote I wasn't referring to attempt making me look bad. Such intellectual honesty!
I pulled a quote you conveniently ignored for the purpose of furthering your own argument.

Quote:
Wow, you're stupid. For someone saying I can't read, you aren't that skilled in the reading habits either. I actually pointed out that anti-theists were mostly gnostic atheist, thus saying that anti-theism and atheism are also intersecting just like agnosticism and atheism are. The point I'm making and you clearly are ignoring is that anti-theism and atheism aren't synonymous.
How convenient this whole argument you're having with me is based on you ignoring part of my original posts. My word, the point you're trying to make is not one I've ever denied.

I explicitly mentioned agnostic atheism. What I said was that the mans views reflected more that of agnosticism then it does atheism.

I'm not here to argue semantics with you, the broad general definition of atheism is someone who doesn't believe god(s). point blank. Afterwards you start categorizing people i,e agnostic atheism, hard atheism, negative atheism, etc..

He refered to himself as an atheist and definied his view point as if it was the only definition of atheism.

Im sure if he wanted to specify his intention he would of done so himself. But you couldn't stop yourself from taking the lowest road possible and attacking people personaly. stupid once again, cause I don't agree with you. Laughable.



Quote:
A belief requires a positive statement, and atheism is a negative statement, therefore incompatible only by itself with the concept of belief.
Except it isn't. Again I say, a belief requires a positive statement as basis. It's illogical to make a negative claim a belief, or else the word "disbelief" wouldn't exist.
disbelief without evidence is a belief within itself.

I believe in God
I believe God doesn't exist.



Quote:
So you're mixing apples and oranges just because they happen to be fruits. Also morality is independent of religion, so please don't come with non-sequitur and stick to the topic.
Morality is tightly related with religiion for religious people. What the hell are you talking about?

When christians do "good" and claim it was "gods will to do so" they are using their religious beliefs as explanation for their moral choices.

You don't need religion to have morals of course, but like I said billions of people use their belief system as moral guideline on this planet.

Quote:
Not now, that humans achieved civilization, but before that evolution DID have a part to play in our morals and it still does in other species. The instinct of protecting the young, of working for the clan/pride/colony/etc and not just oneself, of not aimlessly slaughter individuals of the same species, these are the foundations of morals because doing that would promote the propagation of the species instead of its demise.
Now you're mixing up instincts with morals. Amazing.

Quote:
So yes, our morals can be traced back to Darwinian principals, they just, pardon the pun, evolved from them with civilization and society.
Please provide a source for this detailing me that morals are bound by the laws of natural selection and survival of the fittest. please.

Progression of philosophical concepts such as morality within civilization and society has nothing to do with Darwinism.


Quote:
Funny how you quickly go for the ridicule without even thinking of the simple fact that humans have the capacity of learning (and teaching)
Learning and teaching has nothing to do with your claim that morals are inherent. The fact that we do have to teach morals and basic lessons of right vs wrong to our young is proof that it's not an inherited trait.

Quote:
Not only that, morality has been an heirloom from generation to generation, always changing. If humans didn't have an inherent capacity for morals, how could newer generations modify the morality of older generations?
Morals are not passed down genetically for one. And the whole point is that morals is something you learn and adapt too as a person matures from influences of society.

Evolution has no god damn relation to that. Can't believe I have to argue the most basic points of Darwinism with you. A person with good morals doesn't necessarily live, and a person with bad ones doesn't necessarily die. Our philosophical views and morality isn't affected by natural selection.

Last edited by MrBIG; 09-19-2013 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:51 PM   #103
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Well, it seems KYF has made progress! Now he went from being stuck in 1915 to being stuck in 1939! Come on, KYF, just 3 more years and you might spout the Y2K is coming to shut all computers!

Sorry, KYF, but the bulk of Freud's work in psychology has been outdated since the 60's, where many of the findings and methods of Freud were challenged and debunked. One of them being:

Quote:
A 3 year old does not give a shit about anything other then his/herself and their desires. They do not have ANY Morals what so ever, just desires.
This is WRONG. Many studies have shown that toddlers are capable of altruistic and empathic behavior, which are basis for morality. Here's a study explaining that in detail.

Quote:
Morals are learned over time through family, friends and teachers in their environment as frued recognized developing the last part of the human psyche, the super ego..
Then who taught the family, friends and teachers such morals? Freud was clearly wrong on this one considering morality can't belong to the super ego or else you'd face an infinite regress.

Morality is tricky to place in Freudian terms since it has both subconscious and conscious elements attached to it, but it's ridiculous to think morality isn't intrinsic to humans.



Now to HR:

Quote:
one thought that I have is "god" may have existed outside of our universe and dimention before he snapped his finger and created the big bang.

MY PERSONAL BELIEF AND UNDERSTANDING is that God existed in his dimention learned shit and evolved or shoudl I say progressed to the level of diety by gaining knowledge and once he aquired said knowledge he gained the ability to create a universe .
... you still haven't addressed the issue with God's causality. At all.







Edit to avoid double post:

Quote:
How is this any different than the definition I posted? What on earth are you even trying to argue here?
You really can't read for shit. Your definition said that agnostics do not take a stance of BELIEF when agnosticism is about KNOWLEDGE, thus being foolish to use what you used.

Quote:
yes agnonistics people do not have a definite answer wether god exists or not so they don't bother with the question.
... except that's SOME agnostics, considering both theists and atheists can be agnostic. That's the problem you seem to be having there, you seem to want to put all the eggs in the same basket and pretend you don't.

Quote:
I pulled a quote you conveniently ignored for the purpose of furthering your own argument.
If the quote is filled with massive amounts of misinformation, why should I bother refer to it when I'm referring to something else?

Quote:
I explicitly mentioned agnostic atheism
No, you said atheistic agnosticism. Which is something I both never heard until now and that I find idiotic to use when the concept of agnostic atheism already exists.

Quote:
What I said was that the mans views reflected more that of agnosticism then it does atheism.
Or maybe your tiny head didn't compute that it reflects both equally, considering they're intersecting and do not answer the same metaphysical question.

Quote:
I'm not here to argue semantics with you, the broad general definition of atheism is someone who doesn't believe god(s). point blank. Afterwards you start categorizing people i,e agnostic atheism, hard atheism, negative atheism, etc..

He refered to himself as an atheist and definied his view point as if it was the only definition of atheism.
Actually, he attempted to clarify that the definition you gave for atheism was more proper for anti-theism and that atheism can and does have an intersection with agnosticism. You, simply ignored and went horns first denying your mistake and started backpedaling when you got cornered.

Quote:
But you couldn't stop yourself from taking the lowest road possible and attacking people personaly. stupid once again, cause I don't agree with you. Laughable.
Laughable is thinking that I'm calling you stupid just because you disagree and not because you're messing a whole lot with the concept of atheism and agnosticism.

Quote:
disbelief without evidence is a belief within itself.
Oh for fuck's sake, do I have to fetch the "you can't ask to prove a negative claim" tidbit I used for KYF again? Because that's what you're begging by keeping expecting negative claims to prove themselves.

Quote:
I believe in God
I believe God doesn't exist.
Funny how you want to pin down atheism as a belief but keep ramming into anti-theism instead. Atheists don't say "I believe God doesn't exist", they say "I don't believe in the existence of God", which is very different even if it sounds the same. Saying the first implied both a positive claim and knowledge, both the latter lacks since it's simply a negative claim. Now anti-theists might say "I don't believe in God because I believe He doesn't exist", which indeed would make it a belief, but yet again, anti-theism =/= atheism.

Quote:
Morality is tightly related with religiion for religious people. What the hell are you talking about?
Yeah, but not all people are religious, so bringing up morality into a discussion about the existence of deities makes as much sense as bringing homosexuality/homophobia. It's simply a non-sequitur.

Quote:
Now you're mixing up instincts with morals. Amazing.
Wow, you're stupid. Morality is derived from instinct, so of course instincts are poignant in a discussion about the nature of morality.

Quote:
Please provide a source for this detailing me that morals are bound by the laws of natural selection and survival of the fittest. please.
What a nice strawman. I didn't say that morals are bound by the laws of natural selection and survival of the fittest, I said that morals were formed due to said laws. Big difference there. Also, look up Evolutionary Morality.

Quote:
Progression of philosophical concepts such as morality within civilization and society has nothing to do with Darwinism.
Oh wait, what was the first part of that quote of mine again?

Quote:
Not now, that humans achieved civilization
Funny how you completely ignored that.

Quote:
Learning and teaching has nothing to do with your claim that morals are inherent. The fact that we do have to teach morals and basic lessons of right vs wrong to our young is proof that it's not an inherited trait.
Except generations oppose to certain tenets the previous one taught them and those moral teaching had to come from somewhere, they didn't just pop out in Mount Ararat.

Quote:
Evolution has no god damn relation to that. Can't believe I have to argue the most basic points of Darwinism with you. A person with good morals doesn't necessarily live, and a person with bad ones doesn't necessarily die. Our philosophical views and morality isn't affected by natural selection.
Again you missed that little bit I said about civilization. Oh, the reading comprehension skills you have!
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:17 PM   #104
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post

Now to HR:

... you still haven't addressed the issue with God's causality. At all.

yes i have .. if you couldn't get that. God must have come from another dimension where at some point in his past he had a God or Gods who laid the information for him to achieve his god status. now extrapolate that in both directions to infinity.

all universes and dimensions form an infinite loop in this theory where sometime in our dimensions future some being will create this dimensions God's God which will create the dimension/universe that he will/did hail from for him to create our dimension/universe.

I don't have anything to back any of this up of course ( ya know since God can't be proven to exist) but I'm sure there is something in quantum physics that would allow this to happen
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for those of you who don't understand.. I'm coming from an illogical perspective so your logic won't fit my argument .. it'll only give you a headache.. remember ..belief doesn't require a co-signer There Is A Fine Line Between Genius And Insanity , I Have Erased This Line ! If I were you I'd hate me too.. I am the HUMAN RASENGAN!!!

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Old 09-19-2013, 07:56 PM   #105
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Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

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Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
yes i have .. if you couldn't get that. God must have come from another dimension where at some point in his past he had a God or Gods who laid the information for him to achieve his god status. now extrapolate that in both directions to infinity.

all universes and dimensions form an infinite loop in this theory where sometime in our dimensions future some being will create this dimensions God's God which will create the dimension/universe that he will/did hail from for him to create our dimension/universe.

I don't have anything to back any of this up of course ( ya know since God can't be proven to exist) but I'm sure there is something in quantum physics that would allow this to happen
@ bolded: You nailed the core problem with your whole explanation. If you don't have anything to back that up, why should anyone but your find worth in it? Not only that, what is the satisfaction of such explanation (other than comfort) if you have no way to make it even plausible?
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