Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength... - Page 11 - Fandom Forums
Fandom Forums



Go Back   Fandom Forums > Anime & Manga > Naruto Series > Naruto Manga

Naruto Manga Talk about the manga series Naruto here! Remember, this is manga only. No anime!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-23-2013, 08:08 PM   #151
liondemon
Missing Kage
 
liondemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South Central Cloud
Posts: 3,197
Thanks: 344
Thanked 723 Times in 459 Posts
liondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
There's a blatant and vast difference in "being raised in" and "choosing" any religion. I was raised in the Christian faith. I also decided to choose that faith as my own. If I wanted to, I could have walked away. And for your last sentence, it rings hollow with the majority of self-proclaimed "raised Catholics" across the world.

Edit:
I chose Christianity because of several near-death experiences in my... young adult days, some self-inflicted, others wrong place, wrong time. Having a person hold a gun to your face, pull the trigger, and the gun jam... yeah, that trumps just about any thing that I was raised on.
Guns jam all the time. It has everything to do with the maintenance and condition of the gun, not miracles. Now if you said that you were shot in the face, that would be more reason to have faith, in my personal opinion. However, people get shot in the face and live too, and that's not a miracle neither. I get that your personal experiences have influenced you, but I'm sure nothing that has happened to you has not happened to others who also survived.

My point is, logically speaking, there is no reason to believe that God protected you or anyone else from something from which dictators and serial killers and other immoral people are sometimes protected as well. If you said that you had your head chopped off and then replaced and was alive, I would say it was a miracle and that God did it. Anything less than that is just chance, probability, likelihood, luck, and all that other good stuff.

I have personally experienced two supernatural events that cannot be explained logically. I swear that a spirit is the only explanation, yet I still do not believe that any God was behind it or related to it in any way. I just list it under the unexplainable.

I once knew a guy who was driving a car and hit a deer. The car was totaled, and the doctor said that it was a miracle that he was alive. This guy was not even seriously injured, and surviving this car accident assured him that there was a God and that God saved him, as if good and bad men and women do not hit deer and survive car accidents all the time. Shit happens sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't.
__________________
Ninja Assassin


Wisdom, compassion, and courage are the three universally recognized moral qualities of men.
Confucius

There is a wisdom of the head and a wisdom of the heart.
Charles Dickens

To be satisfied with a little is the greatest wisdom; and he that increaseth his riches, increaseth his cares; but a contented mind is a hidden treasure, and trouble findeth it not.
Akhenaton

It is the nature of the wise to resist pleasures, but the foolish to be a slave to them.
Epictetus

It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
Walter Lippmann

Knowing others is wisdom; knowing yourself is Enlightenment.
Lao Tzu

It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep all your life.
Elizabeth Kenny
liondemon is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 09-23-2013, 08:29 PM   #152
jekyl_hyde
Hunter-Nin
 
jekyl_hyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,362
Thanks: 763
Thanked 1,248 Times in 521 Posts
jekyl_hyde is on a distinguished roadjekyl_hyde is on a distinguished road
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by liondemon View Post
Guns jam all the time. It has everything to do with the maintenance and condition of the gun, not miracles. Now if you said that you were shot in the face, that would be more reason to have faith, in my personal opinion. However, people get shot in the face and live too, and that's not a miracle neither. I get that your personal experiences have influenced you, but I'm sure nothing that has happened to you has not happened to others who also survived.

My point is, logically speaking, there is no reason to believe that God protected you or anyone else from something from which dictators and serial killers and other immoral people are sometimes protected as well. If you said that you had your head chopped off and then replaced and was alive, I would say it was a miracle and that God did it. Anything less than that is just chance, probability, likelihood, luck, and all that other good stuff.
Ok, let some mugger try to jump you, and in the tussle, pull a gun and have the edge of the barrel hit the bridge of your nose right between your eyes. Regardless of who you are and what you believe, all kinds of stuff go through your brain. And when the trigger is pulled, and your life flashes before your eyes, only for you to come to the realization that the bullet never fired, and the safety was off, do you honestly think you're gonna go, hey idiot, you should have maintained your gun more properly?! Get real man.

Quote:
I have personally experienced two supernatural events that cannot be explained logically. I swear that a spirit is the only explanation, yet I still do not believe that any God was behind it or related to it in any way. I just list it under the unexplainable.

I once knew a guy who was driving a car and hit a deer. The car was totaled, and the doctor said that it was a miracle that he was alive. This guy was not even seriously injured, and surviving this car accident assured him that there was a God and that God saved him, as if good and bad men and women do not hit deer and survive car accidents all the time. Shit happens sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't.
I never said that "bad" things don't happen to "good" people. What I did say/imply is that people are wronged, and in this life, rarely does justice happen. But I do believe that justice does/will occur, if it hasn't already been so. That because I believe in the soul of a human being. Once this body dies, something happens to the soul. That's why in Christianity there is the old saying, "Will you be born once and die twice, or born twice and die once?"
jekyl_hyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 08:49 PM   #153
liondemon
Missing Kage
 
liondemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South Central Cloud
Posts: 3,197
Thanks: 344
Thanked 723 Times in 459 Posts
liondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
Ok, let some mugger try to jump you, and in the tussle, pull a gun and have the edge of the barrel hit the bridge of your nose right between your eyes. Regardless of who you are and what you believe, all kinds of stuff go through your brain. And when the trigger is pulled, and your life flashes before your eyes, only for you to come to the realization that the bullet never fired, and the safety was off, do you honestly think you're gonna go, hey idiot, you should have maintained your gun more properly?! Get real man.
No, I honestly don't think that I would say that, and I never implied that you should have told the gunman to maintain his gun more properly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
I never said that "bad" things don't happen to "good" people. What I did say/imply is that people are wronged, and in this life, rarely does justice happen. But I do believe that justice does/will occur, if it hasn't already been so. That because I believe in the soul of a human being. Once this body dies, something happens to the soul. That's why in Christianity there is the old saying, "Will you be born once and die twice, or born twice and die once?"
My point in mentioning that bad things happen to good people was to say that it would be foolish to say that God protected one person from something from which an immoral person is also protected. If God did not protect that immoral person, why could he have not protected that moral person as well? Shit happens, is my point, without God having to do anything.

And the fact that justice doesn't happen often enough should be proof enough that God is not dishing out punishments, nor is karma. God, karma, and everything else related are just pretty words and ideas that make people feel good about life in general. There's enough evidence in the world to show that praying doesn't determine nor influence whether good or bad things happen to people, and people suffer indiscriminately. The conclusion, based on what the bible says: no God. We are born once and die once.
__________________
Ninja Assassin


Wisdom, compassion, and courage are the three universally recognized moral qualities of men.
Confucius

There is a wisdom of the head and a wisdom of the heart.
Charles Dickens

To be satisfied with a little is the greatest wisdom; and he that increaseth his riches, increaseth his cares; but a contented mind is a hidden treasure, and trouble findeth it not.
Akhenaton

It is the nature of the wise to resist pleasures, but the foolish to be a slave to them.
Epictetus

It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
Walter Lippmann

Knowing others is wisdom; knowing yourself is Enlightenment.
Lao Tzu

It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep all your life.
Elizabeth Kenny

Last edited by liondemon; 09-23-2013 at 08:50 PM.
liondemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 11:00 PM   #154
MrBIG
Genin
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 167
Thanks: 123
Thanked 95 Times in 53 Posts
MrBIG is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

I think prayer to a lot of people is a form of meditation not an actually way to change god's will.

It's true that a lot of undeserving people are in pain in this world, but how much of that suffering is inflicted by other humans and the society we've created?

racism, murder, poverty, etc. Is mostly shit we've made up, God intervening would basically be robbing us of our free will.
MrBIG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MrBIG For This Useful Post:
Human Rasengan (09-24-2013), jekyl_hyde (09-23-2013)
Old 09-23-2013, 11:10 PM   #155
jekyl_hyde
Hunter-Nin
 
jekyl_hyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,362
Thanks: 763
Thanked 1,248 Times in 521 Posts
jekyl_hyde is on a distinguished roadjekyl_hyde is on a distinguished road
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by liondemon View Post
No, I honestly don't think that I would say that, and I never implied that you should have told the gunman to maintain his gun more properly.
Your implication was that the gun jamming was a coincidence. I've known several people that have been shot at, and every time the bullet missed (or hit, but wasn't a fatal hit) did not think it a coincidence.

Quote:
My point in mentioning that bad things happen to good people was to say that it would be foolish to say that God protected one person from something from which an immoral person is also protected. If God did not protect that immoral person, why could he have not protected that moral person as well? Shit happens, is my point, without God having to do anything.

And the fact that justice doesn't happen often enough should be proof enough that God is not dishing out punishments, nor is karma. God, karma, and everything else related are just pretty words and ideas that make people feel good about life in general. There's enough evidence in the world to show that praying doesn't determine nor influence whether good or bad things happen to people, and people suffer indiscriminately. The conclusion, based on what the bible says: no God. We are born once and die once.
I find it funny that you stated the conclusion, based on what the Bible says: no God, laughable and showing of your ignorance. I don't claim to know in details the belief of other religions, other than what I do know, have read myself, or have had explained to me by believers of those faiths. Do not claim to have read the Bible, and then say that there is conclusive evidence that because bad things happen to people (both good and bad), there is no God. You want to draw that conclusion from your own derivations, that's fine. But to say that the actual doctrine of a religion poses no foundation for that belief system is asinine and stupid at best. And I'm not talking about self-made religions. I'm talking about those that have stood the test of time (so to speak): Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, hell even Marxism (going the politically religious route), all have doctrines that do not contradict the foundation of God(s) or the belief system they establish.

The reason Num hasn't brought up the justice part with me, is because he and I have had this discussion before, and he knows my viewpoint about it (unless he's forgotten it), and that is justice does happen. If it does not happen in this lifetime, it will in the next. There's a single book that does a pretty good job of summing this up for believers, the book of Revelation.

Edit:
Holy giggles Batman... MrBig is spot on about the concept of free will.

Last edited by jekyl_hyde; 09-23-2013 at 11:13 PM.
jekyl_hyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 11:19 PM   #156
Dagoro
The surgeon of death
 
Dagoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Braving the New World.
Posts: 8,831
Thanks: 76
Thanked 7,274 Times in 2,924 Posts
Dagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to all
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
racism, murder, poverty, etc. Is mostly shit we've made up, God intervening would basically be robbing us of our free will.
You know, a father can love his children, let them forge their own path yet step in at times to prevent them from doing incredibly dumb shit. Apparently this all powerful God that supposedly loves us doesn't give enough of a shit to do the same.

As for free will, how come we can't go about attaining salvation in our own way ? Isn't living a good life enough ? Nope. Either except Jesus or burn for all eternity. That doesn't give us much of a choice does it ?

Lel God. That love filled bastard.
Dagoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 12:02 AM   #157
apacolypz
ANBU
 
apacolypz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC Raleigh
Posts: 1,752
Thanks: 675
Thanked 954 Times in 481 Posts
apacolypz is on a distinguished road
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Fandom.com/forums...the only forum in the world to receive college credits.
apacolypz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to apacolypz For This Useful Post:
Human Rasengan (09-24-2013)
Old 09-24-2013, 12:50 AM   #158
ninjalostboy95
Moe game on point
 
ninjalostboy95's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY, Far Rockaway(currently)
Age: 18
Posts: 5,949
Thanks: 8,419
Thanked 4,704 Times in 2,856 Posts
ninjalostboy95 is just really niceninjalostboy95 is just really niceninjalostboy95 is just really niceninjalostboy95 is just really niceninjalostboy95 is just really niceninjalostboy95 is just really niceninjalostboy95 is just really nice
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

I don't want to sound redundant but the concept of God may just be to keep society in check. I mean enough people follow it right? And there are those extremists bombing and shit but still they do follow it as the basic idea is to live a life doing good for people, at least that's what I got from it.
ninjalostboy95 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ninjalostboy95 For This Useful Post:
Human Rasengan (09-24-2013)
Old 09-24-2013, 12:51 AM   #159
liondemon
Missing Kage
 
liondemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South Central Cloud
Posts: 3,197
Thanks: 344
Thanked 723 Times in 459 Posts
liondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
Your implication was that the gun jamming was a coincidence. I've known several people that have been shot at, and every time the bullet missed (or hit, but wasn't a fatal hit) did not think it a coincidence.



I find it funny that you stated the conclusion, based on what the Bible says: no God, laughable and showing of your ignorance. I don't claim to know in details the belief of other religions, other than what I do know, have read myself, or have had explained to me by believers of those faiths. Do not claim to have read the Bible, and then say that there is conclusive evidence that because bad things happen to people (both good and bad), there is no God. You want to draw that conclusion from your own derivations, that's fine. But to say that the actual doctrine of a religion poses no foundation for that belief system is asinine and stupid at best. And I'm not talking about self-made religions. I'm talking about those that have stood the test of time (so to speak): Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, hell even Marxism (going the politically religious route), all have doctrines that do not contradict the foundation of God(s) or the belief system they establish.

The reason Num hasn't brought up the justice part with me, is because he and I have had this discussion before, and he knows my viewpoint about it (unless he's forgotten it), and that is justice does happen. If it does not happen in this lifetime, it will in the next. There's a single book that does a pretty good job of summing this up for believers, the book of Revelation.

Edit:
Holy giggles Batman... MrBig is spot on about the concept of free will.
I've known several people who have been shot and killed, several who have been shot at and didn't get shot, and several who have survived multiple gunshot wounds. Just because you know a few people who were lucky doesn't mean anything. You say that as if just because you know them and they didn't get hit by the bullets, somehow God was protecting them. What about all the other people over the world who don't get shot and those who do? What does the few people you know change about them not getting shot being a coincidence? Sometimes shit happens and sometimes it doesn't, especially when you're talking about shooting at people from whatever the distance may be, under whatever the conditions may be:drive-by, point blank, six shots, twelve shots, semi-auto, auto. People miss their targets all the time. There is nothing supernatural about it.


My conclusion was based off all the fairy-tale stories that the bible tells you about praying and God answering being bullshit, thus their stories of God are the same. I never claimed to have read the bible and found any conclusive evidence. My bad if I made it seem that way. I haven't read much of the bible since I was a child in Sunday school. I was simply stating the common-sense conclusion I reached, which is pretty conclusive itself though if I do say so myself.

I never said the doctrine of religion poses no foundations for that belief system. That's twice you seem to have accused me of something that I never even implied.

You cannot say that justice happens in the afterlife because you do not know. What we do know is that immoral men and women have been living like presidents, kings, queens, and dictators since as long as history goes back. Many immoral people have lived and died great lives, becoming rich and powerful off the sweat of their slaves. So we know that you can live an immoral life and still die a happy person. We don't know what happens after that, and that's a fact.

I was never speaking about free will. Free will doesn't determine whether or not you die in a car accident or from a gunshot to the face or in the hospital, praying every day that God makes you better again. My point is not, "If there is a God, he would step in." My point is that the God of which many different religions preach is contradicted by the same bible and beliefs that are said to come from him and the masses of people who claim to be of those religions and follow him, and he does not step in because he does not exist. Pray to him for something that is possible to happen whether or not you might pray, and your prayers may or may not be answered. Pray for something that never happens, like a brain-dead man who was hit by a drunk driver and is now severely mentally handicapped, paralyzed, an unable to ever care for himself again to be able to regain all brain functions and have his crushed spine healed again so he can dance on Dancing With The Stars someday, which was his dream, and your prayers will not be answered. People who claim that they were saved by miracles were saved by the same circumstances and luck as the next guy, who may or may not be an immoral son of a bitch. My conclusion: No God.
__________________
Ninja Assassin


Wisdom, compassion, and courage are the three universally recognized moral qualities of men.
Confucius

There is a wisdom of the head and a wisdom of the heart.
Charles Dickens

To be satisfied with a little is the greatest wisdom; and he that increaseth his riches, increaseth his cares; but a contented mind is a hidden treasure, and trouble findeth it not.
Akhenaton

It is the nature of the wise to resist pleasures, but the foolish to be a slave to them.
Epictetus

It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
Walter Lippmann

Knowing others is wisdom; knowing yourself is Enlightenment.
Lao Tzu

It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep all your life.
Elizabeth Kenny

Last edited by liondemon; 09-24-2013 at 01:11 AM.
liondemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 07:28 AM   #160
MrBIG
Genin
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 167
Thanks: 123
Thanked 95 Times in 53 Posts
MrBIG is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
You know, a father can love his children, let them forge their own path yet step in at times to prevent them from doing incredibly dumb shit. Apparently this all powerful God that supposedly loves us doesn't give enough of a shit to do the same.
He loves us enough to let us pick our own path. Free will becomes an illusion if he intervenes at all.

Quote:

As for free will, how come we can't go about attaining salvation in our own way ? Isn't living a good life enough ? Nope. Either except Jesus or burn for all eternity. That doesn't give us much of a choice does it ?
That's not even the view of most Christians nor the catholic church.
Even the pope said that atheists could reach salvation. Meaning that what you believe in doesnt matter but it's the way you lead your life. Your actions that matter.
MrBIG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 07:53 AM   #161
Dagoro
The surgeon of death
 
Dagoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Braving the New World.
Posts: 8,831
Thanks: 76
Thanked 7,274 Times in 2,924 Posts
Dagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to allDagoro is a name known to all
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Dat love.

The love that lets innocent people with no plans of dropping into an early grave be gunned down/hacked to pieces by crazy motherfuckers with twisted minds. The love that lets millions starve to death, be born into illness and war while others are born with golden spoons up their asses not having to lift a fucking finger through out their entire lives.

If there is an all powerful being on this universe he/she/it is certainly not as the so called holy books describe them. As the great, late George Carlin said "If God exists he/she/it is at the very least incompetent. If managing the universe was a job he/she/it would have been fired and tossed out on his/her/its all powerful ass a long time ago".

I'm paraphrasing there but you get the gist.

Quote:
That's not even the view of most Christians nor the catholic church.
Even the pope said that atheists could reach salvation. Meaning that what you believe in doesnt matter but it's the way you lead your life. Your actions that matter.
Yep. The church is constantly bending like a contortionist, being more and more forgiving in order to stall its inevitable fall into complete irrelevancy.

Last edited by Dagoro; 09-24-2013 at 07:59 AM.
Dagoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 08:10 AM   #162
kael03
Aspiring Physicist
 
Join Date: May 2010
Age: 28
Posts: 4,691
Thanks: 4,758
Thanked 8,717 Times in 3,842 Posts
kael03 is a jewel in the roughkael03 is a jewel in the roughkael03 is a jewel in the roughkael03 is a jewel in the roughkael03 is a jewel in the roughkael03 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

George Carlin called God a "he" because he felt a woman couldn't fuck things up like the world was when he made that quote.
kael03 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to kael03 For This Useful Post:
ninjalostboy95 (09-24-2013), Numinous (09-24-2013)
Old 09-24-2013, 08:21 AM   #163
Numinous
Writing speed: snail
 
Numinous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Porto, Portugal
Posts: 4,783
Thanks: 8,386
Thanked 11,563 Times in 3,932 Posts
Numinous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

I always found free will a paradoxical excuse for God's inactivity. Not only in the Bible he intervened a lot of times, free will actually breaks one of his statuses: if free will is applied and he's omnibenevolent, then he isn't omnipotent since he isn't capable of intervening even with free will; if free will is applied and he's omnipotent, then he isn't omnibenevolent because he has the capacity of intervening even with free will but doesn't do so.

And, to be honest, I've seen people excusing child rape with free will, so fuck that notion.

Quote:
That's not even the view of most Christians nor the catholic church.
Even the pope said that atheists could reach salvation. Meaning that what you believe in doesnt matter but it's the way you lead your life. Your actions that matter.
Too bad the Bible is packed with verse condemning unbelievers to death and/or God's smite. So if that's not the view of most Christians or the Pope's, please update your moral codex.
__________________
My writings and ramblings:

Water of Ocean Darkest Chapters: 1 - 2
Weaver Chapters: 0 - 1 - 2 - 3







Numinous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 09:21 AM   #164
jekyl_hyde
Hunter-Nin
 
jekyl_hyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,362
Thanks: 763
Thanked 1,248 Times in 521 Posts
jekyl_hyde is on a distinguished roadjekyl_hyde is on a distinguished road
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

This is the last thing I'm going to say on this subject, because we've been down this road so many times before...

Quote:
Originally Posted by liondemon
The conclusion, based on what the bible says: no God.
How many ways is there to say this:
1. Your words, not mine.
2. Straight from your mouth. I didn't put these words into your "mouth", because you typed them yourself.
3. Your stamp of approval, not mine.

Also, it's not that I know people that have been shot at and survived gunshot wounds. It's their take/point-of-view as to why they survived. You want to debate, stay on topic.

@Num
Just because a person has free will, doesn't mean that God doesn't intervene. I know of numerous people that have tried to commit suicide, and for some strange reason, it went awry. I personally know a guy's dad who tried to hang himself on a beam in a barn, and the beam broke (couldn't bare his weight because of age and termite damage). You might say coincidence, believers would say divine intervention. I've noticed this generalization, atheists and opposers to Jesus scoff at the notion of Christianity because God's not fair. God's not fair, he's just.

That being said, I'm done with this topic. As I've said, we've been down this road before, and soon, it will turn into name calling and attacking and so forth.
jekyl_hyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 10:05 AM   #165
liondemon
Missing Kage
 
liondemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South Central Cloud
Posts: 3,197
Thanks: 344
Thanked 723 Times in 459 Posts
liondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of lightliondemon is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Debate: Speed Vs Power/Strength...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde View Post
This is the last thing I'm going to say on this subject, because we've been down this road so many times before...



How many ways is there to say this:
1. Your words, not mine.
2. Straight from your mouth. I didn't put these words into your "mouth", because you typed them yourself.
3. Your stamp of approval, not mine.

Also, it's not that I know people that have been shot at and survived gunshot wounds. It's their take/point-of-view as to why they survived. You want to debate, stay on topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by liondemon View Post
I never claimed to have read the bible and found any conclusive evidence. My bad if I made it seem that way. I haven't read much of the bible since I was a child in Sunday school. I was simply stating the common-sense conclusion I reached, which is pretty conclusive itself though if I do say so myself.

I never said the doctrine of religion poses no foundations for that belief system. That's twice you seem to have accused me of something that I never even implied.
The first time you seemed to be accusing me was when you asked me if I would tell the gunman about his gun, and then you told me to get real. It seemed like you were accusing me of having implied that you should have done that. The second time is above, what you said about the doctrine of religion as if implying that I even made that claim. It had nothing to do with what you quoted me as saying. As quoted and bolded above, I apologized for my post implying that and then clarified what I had intended to say to you, even explaining that I had not read the bible since I was a child. So there was no point in you implying that I was denying that I said that. Based on what the bible says and is contradicted by common sense and all sorts of evidence as well as the bible itself at times, as pointed out by other posts above me, my personal conclusion was the bible is a book of bullshit. I wrote, "The conclusion, based on what the bible says," when I should have written, "My conclusion, based on what I know of the bible and what I know of the real world," even though it's still a common-sense conclusion to anyone who lives and interacts in the real world, the internet world, or even the world of non-fiction books. No God.

You said- Your implication was that the gun jamming was a coincidence. I've known several people that have been shot at, and every time the bullet missed (or hit, but wasn't a fatal hit) did not think it a coincidence.

Then I responded- I've known several people who have been shot and killed, several who have been shot at and didn't get shot, and several who have survived multiple gunshot wounds. Just because you know a few people who were lucky doesn't mean anything. You say that as if just because you know them and they didn't get hit by the bullets, somehow God was protecting them. What about all the other people over the world who don't get shot and those who do? What does the few people you know change about them not getting shot being a coincidence? Sometimes shit happens and sometimes it doesn't, especially when you're talking about shooting at people from whatever the distance may be, under whatever the conditions may be:drive-by, point blank, six shots, twelve shots, semi-auto, auto. People miss their targets all the time. There is nothing supernatural about it.

How exactly did I fall off topic? Were you trying to say that those several people did not think it was a coincidence that they survived? And if that is what you were trying to say in that sentence, what point were you trying to make about that in response to what I said to you, which was that I never implied that you should have told the gunman to take better care of his gun? You seem to be the one who has trouble staying on topic.
__________________
Ninja Assassin


Wisdom, compassion, and courage are the three universally recognized moral qualities of men.
Confucius

There is a wisdom of the head and a wisdom of the heart.
Charles Dickens

To be satisfied with a little is the greatest wisdom; and he that increaseth his riches, increaseth his cares; but a contented mind is a hidden treasure, and trouble findeth it not.
Akhenaton

It is the nature of the wise to resist pleasures, but the foolish to be a slave to them.
Epictetus

It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
Walter Lippmann

Knowing others is wisdom; knowing yourself is Enlightenment.
Lao Tzu

It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep all your life.
Elizabeth Kenny

Last edited by liondemon; 09-24-2013 at 10:11 AM.
liondemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need for Speed The Run Limited Edition . B.A.H Gaming 0 11-12-2011 06:22 AM
[WU] Need for Speed Most Wanted [PC/2005/Full iso] huongco23 Gaming 0 09-22-2011 09:56 AM
Need for Speed World v.1.8.1.53 (2010/ENG) | 819 MB NEW!!! iwantcools90 Gaming 0 09-01-2010 12:51 PM
The Naruto Debating FC MikeyM1979 Official Fanclubs 1734 07-09-2009 08:59 PM
naruto's speed & hearing power phyomin Naruto Manga 10 01-05-2009 03:40 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.