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Old 09-26-2013, 05:00 PM   #61
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Re: Naruto 648

She beat down some fodder when they pissed her off and suicided herself against the kyuubi. She didn't do anything else but walk around with a bijuu, which we've seen average people like Rin do.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:33 PM   #62
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Re: Naruto 648

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Originally Posted by ninjalostboy95 View Post
^the answer to that is Kushina. She did kick some ass.
On tha level of Harashirma, Tobirama? That's my point, they're the only known Senju, and only Obito with Sage mix is the only shinobi living I've seen in they're neighborhood. Even Madara fight 1 was grossly overmatched, now with Edo he can't even off him.

Both Harashirma, and Tobirama has the abilities to off Major Villages, by themselves.
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:05 PM   #63
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Re: Naruto 648

See the problem is you comparing Uzumaki's to the leaders of the senju clan. Kushina not gonna hold off Madara like Hashirama would. Though she may level a village with her Kyuubi but that's as far as it goes.
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:13 PM   #64
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Re: Naruto 648

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Originally Posted by ninjalostboy95 View Post
See the problem is you comparing Uzumaki's to the leaders of the senju clan. Kushina not gonna hold off Madara like Hashirama would. Though she may level a village with her Kyuubi but that's as far as it goes.
They became leaders, they started out like kids just like Kushina, Naruto, and erybody else. They're Dad ran the Senju, who knows if he was great or not, he hasn't be spoken of. But he musta been somebody, look at the bloodlines, same with Madara, just saying.
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:54 PM   #65
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Re: Naruto 648

You can't make a comment on Kushina's power because we havent seen her fight. Her power must indeed be something as she was able to control Kurama with her chains.. same as Obito. The only reason she got offed during child birth was because she was weak from delivering Naruto plus the strain of Kurama escaping from her seal and Obito having her chained up. I mean thats a lot of shit.. so to Say Kushina UZUMAKI doesn't have comparable strength to a SENJU is crazy. they were meant to be on par.

Also it is unknown if the Namikaze clan has any relationship to the Senju clan. somewhere there must have been a female Senju who married a Namikaze. And to say its far fetched due to name prestige doesn't apply either.. you can't say Minato is the only prestigious Namikaze name we didn't know how big of a legend Sakumo Hatake was until it was told and didn't know anything about Butsuma or the other elder until they were revealed.

shit just look at how awesome Tobirama is with the knowledge whereas before he was Just the second Hokage brother to Hashirama.

Knowing Kishi He wont go back to Kushina to show her strength in battle but he has given plenty evidence that she was indeed on a high tier of power without her biju... if for no other reason alone than her ability to suppress such a large chakra source. Remember she had both Kuramas power in check.. thats a lotta fucking power to suppress and she did it with ease until a baby ripped her cooch.. that had to hurt
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:20 PM   #66
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Re: Naruto 648

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Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
You can't make a comment on Kushina's power because we havent seen her fight. Her power must indeed be something as she was able to control Kurama with her chains.. same as Obito. The only reason she got offed during child birth was because she was weak from delivering Naruto plus the strain of Kurama escaping from her seal and Obito having her chained up. I mean thats a lot of shit.. so to Say Kushina UZUMAKI doesn't have comparable strength to a SENJU is crazy. they were meant to be on par.

Also it is unknown if the Namikaze clan has any relationship to the Senju clan. somewhere there must have been a female Senju who married a Namikaze. And to say its far fetched due to name prestige doesn't apply either.. you can't say Minato is the only prestigious Namikaze name we didn't know how big of a legend Sakumo Hatake was until it was told and didn't know anything about Butsuma or the other elder until they were revealed.

shit just look at how awesome Tobirama is with the knowledge whereas before he was Just the second Hokage brother to Hashirama.

Knowing Kishi He wont go back to Kushina to show her strength in battle but he has given plenty evidence that she was indeed on a high tier of power without her biju... if for no other reason alone than her ability to suppress such a large chakra source. Remember she had both Kuramas power in check.. thats a lotta fucking power to suppress and she did it with ease until a baby ripped her cooch.. that had to hurt
Sorry, for me Tobirama, and Harashrima created some of the most uber jutsu's in the world because they could because they were Senju. Name anyone not Senju that's on par ever in the manga... none. Beyond that no single shinobi were in they're league, and that's honest. No one has come close beyond becoming a Sage, no one.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:27 PM   #67
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Re: Naruto 648

Obviously madara > tobirama...

I would probably pick Pain over Tobirama too.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:45 PM   #68
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Re: Naruto 648

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Originally Posted by MrBIG View Post
Obviously madara > tobirama...

I would probably pick Pain over Tobirama too.
In a straight up fight, then I most definitely agree. Although Tobirama has the most broken hax of a jutsu every made....edo tensei. So with a little setup, I can't see him losing against anybody, even madara. He need only summon up Hashirama and game over. Hell why not summon up Izuna while he's at it just to mind fuck Madara with the prospect of having to fight his little bro'.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:56 PM   #69
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Re: Naruto 648

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Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
In a straight up fight, then I most definitely agree. Although Tobirama has the most broken hax of a jutsu every made....edo tensei. So with a little setup, I can't see him losing against anybody, even madara. He need only summon up Hashirama and game over. Hell why not summon up Izuna while he's at it just to mind fuck Madara with the prospect of having to fight his little bro'.
Doesn't he need to make living sacrifices or some shit for edo to work?

Seems like to me Tobirama is not the type of dude to do that.
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Old 09-27-2013, 01:10 AM   #70
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Re: Naruto 648

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Doesn't he need to make living sacrifices or some shit for edo to work?

Seems like to me Tobirama is not the type of dude to do that.
He does need a living sacrifice which honestly goes against Tobirama's character. Why did he even invent such a jutsu knowing it would cause so much misery. I mean using it against your foe is one thing but you are breaking morals-principles that a respected Kage would not.

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Also I could never see Tobirama raising his dead brother to have him powerhouse on some fools. He has way too much respect for Hashirama though I understand your point.
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:39 AM   #71
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Re: Naruto 648

if you people remember when kishi showed and stated that senju and uzumaki clans were distant blood relatives , also it's been said and showed that senju's clan ancestor was the younger son of sosp who had a powerfull body and great life force .so what i'm trying to say is that the younger son of sosp had two sons and one took up on the name of uzumaki and the other on senju,so what i'm saying is that uzumaki and senju have the same blood(of course i'm not sayng that their blood is 100% the same because could have married people from other clans with different bloolines and so the blood got mixed) but different names and for this reason one can say uzumaki = senju more or less
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:07 AM   #72
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Re: Naruto 648

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Originally Posted by luffyus View Post
if you people remember when kishi showed and stated that senju and uzumaki clans were distant blood relatives , also it's been said and showed that senju's clan ancestor was the younger son of sosp who had a powerfull body and great life force .so what i'm trying to say is that the younger son of sosp had two sons and one took up on the name of uzumaki and the other on senju,so what i'm saying is that uzumaki and senju have the same blood(of course i'm not sayng that their blood is 100% the same because could have married people from other clans with different bloolines and so the blood got mixed) but different names and for this reason one can say uzumaki = senju more or less
I disagree, like I stated before NO Uzimaki, not Kushina, not even Mito wielded as much sheer power as Senju.... nobody has. People are coming off like Hara, and Tobirama were some freaks of nature, I reiterate they started off pretty much just like Naruto, and the Wonder Genin. They grew to power like others, but because they ARE Senju, they're obviously in a different league.

Madara would've had a major battle with Tobirama, but IMHO Tobi would've gotten him, his speed is astronomical. Nagato/Pein stood zero chance vs. Tobirama, speed alone would've killed him, in battle he couldn't keep up with Itachi who's not known as Uber Fast.

Lookit, Kishi obviously screwed himself with the 20 Bounty Hunters crap, but to date, before walking on this battlefield, no single shinobi has been in they're area code, at least on panel. A cousin won't have the same power as the Senju, that's fakt, Tsunade's a Granddaughter, and though she's a Senju her powers watered down compared to THE Senju's.

Btw, I've seen 2 Kage Summits without an Uzimaki at the helm. I've heard of a War that wiped out he Uzimaki's. At the time of the first Summit, Kushina wasn't born yet, they're were opportunities for Uzimaki's to shine... at most they got they're symbol added to the Konaha Uniform and that is it. Senju didn't get wiped out, they created the Leaf, and others were drawn to them for protection, and prolly simply cause they agreed with the Senju. Unless someone can show me how possibly the Uzimaki's were somebodies on panel, I don't buy propaganda and eat it up like others. IMHO Uzimaki's were less than Uchiha's, that's just my take on things. But by zero means were Uzimaki's equal until Naruto achieved the power he has, that is a manga fakt.

Besides the 2 Brothers were Senju, and Uchiha... Uzimaki eventually came from Senju. The Descendants were not Uzimaki.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:29 AM   #73
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Re: Naruto 648

Madara would murder Tobirama.

The power hierachi (excluding naruto and edos) is probably

1. Hashimara 2. Madara 3. Tobirama


I don't think there's anything Tobirama could do to counter Madara's sharigan or Susanoo.

Speed doesn't really help at all when Madara has Susanoo activated. Physical attacks barely have any affect. And it wouldn't really make sense if Tobirama were stronger than madara, considering that the Hashimara and Madara fight is played up to be a battle involving the two strongest shinobi.

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Old 09-27-2013, 08:46 AM   #74
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Re: Naruto 648

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Originally Posted by MrBIG View Post
Madara would murder Tobirama.

The power hierachi (excluding naruto and edos) is probably

1. Hashimara 2. Madara 3. Tobirama


I don't think there's anything Tobirama could do to counter Madara's sharigan or Susanoo.

Speed doesn't really help at all when Madara has Susanoo activated. Physical attacks barely have any affect. And it wouldn't really make sense if Tobirama were stronger than madara, considering that the Hashimara and Madara fight is played up to be a battle involving the two strongest shinobi.
Keep in mind you're speaking about Madara without an Rinnengan, and without Harashirma's Jutsus. The greatest weapon he brought beyond himself is Kyuubs. This ain't the same Dude that Harashirma fought before. Also Tobirama knows moar about Uchiha's than any Non-Uchiha I've seen, he knows jutsu's of the Sage that were previously unknown, the only thing I haven't heard form Tobirama is the Fairy Tale about the Sage's Mom eating the Forbidden fruit.

Madara wouldn't be an easy out, I agree there, but Flying Thunder God killed Izuna, and me thinks he wasn't that far in power from his Bother Madara. That's kinda up to interpretation because Kishi went out of his way to make Hara, and Madara arch rivals, so the perception is that no one could defeat Madara except Harashirma, which I disagree with personally, but could understand why others thought differently without an issue. Now if it were Madara with the same powers as the current Edo-Madara, Tobirama would get killed... eventually, those Senju just won't go on panel easily, just my take.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:02 AM   #75
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Re: Naruto 648

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Except he didn't. All that Kishimoto said is that Nagato was both Uzumaki and Senju, not that Uzumaki are Senju and to say the latter is pure extrapolation.
He did not say that, where is that said? Kishi made nagato an Uzumaki who is a close blood relative, which happens to be the youger son of the sage, a.k.a the SENJU bloodline... And this was confirmed by kishi stating that nagto belonged to the SENJU/younger son of the sage's bloodline...

Showing that Uzumaki through nagato are actually senju... Just using a dofferent name, but is the same bloodline...Which is why they have the same abilities too..

Quote:
And you forget the parallelism is Older Son vs Younger Son, which Naruto would fit the bill nicely without being a Senju since he's already an Uzumaki.
And you forgot that the Elder son of the sage=Uchiha and younger son of the sage=senju... Not Uzumaki SO the parallel I presented is the same thing while you ignore the FACT that naruto has to be a SENJU to actually make the parallel accurate...
Which Kishi has doen through the ass pull of making Uzumaki=Senju... Just using a different name...

Quote:
How? Uzumaki and Senju are both related through a common ancestor and have cases of union (Nagato, one of Tsunade's parents, Tsunade herself and Nawaki), just like donkeys and horses are both related through a common ancestor and have cases of union (mule and hinny).
Because your comparing real world lineage of HORSES and DONKEYS, not even people LOL, compared to magical ninja powers gained from a tree that was passed on to the sage, tot he younger son, to create two separate clans with the same bloodline in each... How can you not realize the irrelevance of such a source of info as horses and donkeys...

Quote:
Just because you're too stupid/arrogant to understand/acknowledge an analogy that points out your own leap of logic doesn't entitle you to classify it as a fallacy that doesn't even fit the context.
Yea, keep telling yourself that, but using a source of info like HORSE and DONKEYS Lineage to try and explain magical ninja powers gained form a tree passed down from the sage to his younger son, who passed on the power to a single clan of the senju who became two separate clans for some reason, but are both the same bloodline...

Yea, I repeated myself, maybe then it will compute with yout although I doubt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
In a straight up fight, then I most definitely agree. Although Tobirama has the most broken hax of a jutsu every made....edo tensei. So with a little setup, I can't see him losing against anybody, even madara. He need only summon up Hashirama and game over. Hell why not summon up Izuna while he's at it just to mind fuck Madara with the prospect of having to fight his little bro'.
Tobirama has never shown the ability to actually use edo tensai... Only confirmed to create it... And even if he could use edo tensai, from what we have heard about it, It would be such weak versions that they would be like genin level, thus not offer much help against people that are not at least the same strength as tobirama, thus average kage level...

And I am sorry, but tobirama with 100 genin level edo's+himself who could not even defeat 20 fodder shinobi to live... Much less escape using the FTG...>EMS Madara still...
Madara genjutsu rapes tobirama, forcing him to undo the ET and then kills him... easy as pie...

And the many people who can beat tobirama even if he can use his very weak versions of ET, but likely not more then one or two edo's... Besides EMS Madara...
: Minato uses his superior physical speed/reflexes plus many levels of hirashin to get to the edo, touch the eod's, break the contract so they no longer obey tobirama then Blitz tobirama in the confusion with FTG level 2...
: Itachi uses amaterasu to immobilize the edo's becuase as we saw with nagato, the burning of the blakc flames was doing more damage then the instant healing oculd keep up with thus eventually, the flames would render the edo's uses without the use of Shinrei tensai to blow the flames off of them...
At that point, itachi uses a simple genjutsu rape coupled with taijutsu move and the fight is over... Ain't no low level water jutsu, low level ET or low level hirashin going to stop him..
Then after tobirama is dead, itachi uses totsuka sword to seal away the edos...
: EMS sasuke could do just as well... Use amaterasu to immobilize the weak edos then use amaterasu on tobirama who is way to slow to avoid it... Although sasuke will need some assistance ot get rid of the edo's for good... Likely Juugo will absorb them like he can do living people...
: 4th raikage would beat tobirama faster then anyone lol... Would go V1 and blitz right past the edo's to strike tobirama down because he like his brother is no faster then madara physically who could not even compete against V1 raikage... and Madara had the SG to track and react to his movements too..
Although the raikage will need assistance sealing away the edos...
Deva real on his own could easily beat tobirama... Use a single bansho tenin to draw tobirama into a chakra rod to the chest, killing him... Then just blow then just have Human realm come soul seal the edo's to get rod of them...
: even Hiruzen could beat tobirama by using the shiki fuujin coupled with kage bushin to defeat the edos and tobirama in a single move... although it would kill hiruzen, too, just more evidence that tobirama is no greater then hiruzen... who is about average kage level..

CONCLUSION:
Tobirama is just not that strong, even as an edo he is just not that special... And I know next to a one armed Minato who can do nothing, but think about doing things to his former student yet does not have the heart to kill him... As well as sasuke not really trying very hard...
Edo tobirama seems strong, but he just is not that strong...

Living...
: Almost died against Kin and gin with the 2nd raikage's help fighting...
: Managed to land a mortal blow on Izuna, but he was using no MS jutsu at all... Looked like an ambush...
: Then died against 20 fodder cloud shinobi lol...
: Has zabuza level water jutsu, no actual use fo ET, but talk of being able to use a very weak version compared to oro and kabuto's as well as hirashin version 1, but only with direct physical contact, not Kunai tags for movements and can only teleport one thing at a time too...

Edo...
: Got one shoted by v1 imperfect Juubito... The level of attack Minato and his clone brushed off while busy focusing on the new jutsu...
: Was attacking v2 Juubito with hiraishin because Juubito was just standing their letting him, and still could not land an attack without the assistance of a one armed minato...

How is tobirama even considered more then average kage level like tsunade, hiruzen, ect... With such dismal feats and abilities?
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People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA

Last edited by Konnaha_yellow_flash; 09-27-2013 at 11:06 AM.
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