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Old 09-30-2013, 06:19 AM   #1
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Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

I think its time to put a few things straight about Tobirama and Hashirama compared to Minato. I'll start with Tobirama vs Minato first.

Tobirama invented FTG and imo is more proficient in using it than Minato. They both can tag anything they touch so the only real difference is HOW they incorporate it with their jutsu. Whereas Minato uses kunai's to teleport, the 2nd uses clones and being a Senju and INVENTOR of the Kage Bushin, he can summon multiple clones at once, making his tactics far more superior than Minato's. Tobirama also has a Ftg type charge jutsu that he used to kill Izuna. Minato has NO such pure speed charging jutsu.

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/624/12

Tobirama invented Edo Tensei and contrary to popular opinion, it was NOT a weak or imperfect jutsu. We know this from the reaction of the revived kages who all commented that this is the infamous jutsu of the 2nd.

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/525/2

Obviously this means it was used in their lifetime and it was feared, henve why it became a kinjutsu. To argue that its weak simply because Oro and Kabuto perfected it as illogical.

The 2nd also has incredible sensing abilities something that is light years ahead of Minato's limited finger sensing and add to everything stated above, imo Tobirama is CLEARLY superior to Minato.


Hashirama vs Minato: lol Hashi stomps. If this is KM Minato, its rape without lube. Why, because the bijuu and their chakra are literally SLAVES to Hashirama's will, and that is KM Minato's power source. Get it! If its non KM, Minato still loses. Hashirama will struggle to touch Minato because of FTG, but he has full knowledge of it, since its his brothers technique.

Not only that, he can outlast Minato all day and he would NOT waste chakra using large scale attacks like the Buddha statute or Tree Dragon against Minato. Only the sharingan could see through his clones so good luck Minato spotting the fakes. Lol and in the unlikely event of Minato hitting Hashi with a rasengan and kunai, I'll reference Tobi (using a weak body version of Hashi) and how much damage was done to that body.

The Senju Hokages are on a different level to their peers and subsequent predecessors.
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:45 AM   #2
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

FTG charge type jutsu? He simply moved forward using FTG......Minato basically has FTG1-FTGV2.

Yeah Tobirama was known and feared for ET...he was notorious for creating such a jutsu. He is known from Wind to Stone about this said jutsu.

Also remember due to chakra reservations people like Kakashi choose not to use Kage bushin. It depletes his reserves even faster using a clone and on top of that Minato has a big chakra pool. Obviously way below that of the first and possibly second. You forget Minato also made clones during the current war arc alongside Tobirama who seemed only able to make two clones.

Tobirama's Edo Tensei was imperfect and not as strong as Oro-Kabuto's. Kabuto brought ET to a whole new level.

No one never said it was a weak jutsu...just that Oro-Kabuto made it more efficient.

Yes it is true Tobirama has better sensing abilities than that of Minato. He actually is a sensor unlike Minato.

I am not commenting to open a debate over who will win....Hashirama is the biggest threat to Minato. As he is the only one of the brothers who can use regeneration, sage mode, both water and earth techs, and has the biggest chakra pool to date besides Juubi and Sage. IMO Hashi would win easily...but in a fight against Minato against Tobirama....who can say....
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:34 AM   #3
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

Good points. My disagreements are the following.
1. Tobirama has much more chakra than Minato based on the fact that he is a direct Senju and he created the multiple kage bushin technique. A technique that requires the user having large amounts of chakra.

2. He can create much more clomed than him. I'll look for the scan of the 2nd being ashed of himself for ONLY creating 3 or so clones.

3. The Ftg jutsu he used to kill Izuna is a jutsu Minato does NOT have or has being shown to have. Its not just him moving forward using ftg. When Minato uses ftg 1 or 2, he simply jumps from kunai to kunai, location to location. Tobirama does the same except he uses his clones etc.

Hiraishingiri from the looks of it is a CHARGING jutsu, similar to when Ay charges. Lol obviously I am NOT saying it is, whati am saying is, Minato can't do that jutsu.

No doubt Oro and Kabuto perfected it and irionically made the jutsu vulnerable due to its efficiency. I agree theirs is better according to the manga. All I'm saying is, the original wasn't shit either and it was feared and detested in its day.
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:42 AM   #4
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Good points. My disagreements are the following.
1. Tobirama has much more chakra than Minato based on the fact that he is a direct Senju and he created the multiple kage bushin technique. A technique that requires the user having large amounts of chakra.

2. He can create much more clomed than him. I'll look for the scan of the 2nd being ashed of himself for ONLY creating 3 or so clones.

3. The Ftg jutsu he used to kill Izuna is a jutsu Minato does NOT have or has being shown to have. Its not just him moving forward using ftg. When Minato uses ftg 1 or 2, he simply jumps from kunai to kunai, location to location. Tobirama does the same except he uses his clones etc.

Hiraishingiri from the looks of it is a CHARGING jutsu, similar to when Ay charges. Lol obviously I am NOT saying it is, whati am saying is, Minato can't do that jutsu.

No doubt Oro and Kabuto perfected it and irionically made the jutsu vulnerable due to its efficiency. I agree theirs is better according to the manga. All I'm saying is, the original wasn't shit either and it was feared and detested in its day.

Hashi and Tobi were the only two infamous Senju's. Kishi has not officially said Tobirama has more chakra than that of Minato...Both have large chakra pools. In regard to Tobirama's ftg vs Minato's...Minato is able to use "charging ftg lol". Any variation of FTG minato can use. It wasn't disclosed that that move was exclusive to Tobirama....It again is just a simple charge...why do you believe Minato needs a jutsu to move a few yards forward?

Also it is not to be assumed Tobirama uses clones for ftg..this has been his fighting style since entering the war. Minato made ftg easier to use...he perfected it so much it takes three shinobi to use it in his place. Minato and Tobirama were shown using MAX two clones within the war so far...while Hashi had four clones....What u see is what you get and neither jutsu has shown any advantage over the other.


Good men don't use such tactics or jutsu..that is why it became a forbidden jutsu. No one should raise the dead and whomever does has their morals and ideals twisted. Even Madara seemed disgusted that such a jutsu was used to revive him. Raising the dead is one thing but having to use a sacrifice is another thing. Tobirama said it clearly you made it more efficient but due to them being revived at almost full strength left the jutsu vulnerable to being broken. Tobirama's version was useful but as we have seen in Oro's and Kabuto's version the curability has grown. Tobirama's version brought victims back crippled by reduced power and control. Anyhoo just my two cents.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:18 AM   #5
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

Why is tobirama/hashirama > Minato? Simple, because Kishi said so.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:18 AM   #6
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Why is tobirama/hashirama > Minato? Simple, because Kishi said so.
He also said Nagato is senju and said Naruto would be the senju to face Sasuke Uchiha but you conveniently ignored that part
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:57 AM   #7
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

MU made a thread that is the perfect bait for KYF and HR is already on it. Just let me fetch this...




Please proceed.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:58 AM   #8
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

He didn't say shit about naruto being Senju. That's you reading too much into a throwaway line from a habitual liar. We know Naruto's lineage as Uzumaki and Namikaze. We know the Uzumaki and Senju share a common ancestor, the younger son. We know that, with that common ancestor, he has his link into the battle of the sons. He doesn't need to be Senju. And, for your "theory" to work, Tsunade had to have given birth at 13 for either of his parents to be her kid.
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:05 PM   #9
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

Kael, no debating for you, grab popcorns. NOW!
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:12 PM   #10
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

But I is at work! No has popcorn.
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:57 PM   #11
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Tobirama invented FTG and imo is more proficient in using it than Minato.
You are already incorrect...

Quote:
pro·fi·cien·cy
prəˈfiSHənsē/Submit
noun
1.
a high degree of competence or skill; expertise.
FTG level 1...
1). Tobirama can only use the FTG level 1, but without Kunai to increase his range at will... Tobirama can ONLY use the FTG level 1 by directly touching someone...
2). Tobirama can only teleport 1 thing at a time while minato can teleport a whole freaking army....
3). minato can even teleport things away with INDIRECT contact, thus do not even have to directly touch them, just touch something touching them to teleport them away...
4 coupled with Minato's super reflexes on par with V2 raikage to activate the FTG far quicker then tobirama can with his average reflexes..
CONCLUSION:
Minato even with level 1 FTG which is the ONLY level of FTG that tobirama can even use, has a way higher level of skill then tobirama with it... showing hes more proficient with just Level 1 FTG...

However, Minato also has Level 2 FTG which is minato teleporting to Moving Kunai which tobirama cannot even do...
Plus level 3 which is minato's ability to create a timer space barrier to teleport thing without even touching or tagging them... something tobirama cannot do either...

THUS PROVING MINATO'S SKILL WITH JUST LEVEL 1 IS FAR GREATER THEN TOBIRAMA'S COUPLED WITH SUCH A HIGHER LEVEL OF SKILL THAT HE HAS A 2ND AND 3RD LEVEL WHICH TOBIRAMA DOES NOT PROVING THAT MINATO'S PROFICIENTCY WITH THE FTG IS>>>TOBIRAMA'S EASILY...

Quote:
They both can tag anything they touch so the only real difference is HOW they incorporate it with their jutsu. Whereas Minato uses kunai's to teleport, the 2nd uses clones and being a Senju and INVENTOR of the Kage Bushin, he can summon multiple clones at once, making his tactics far more superior than Minato's. Tobirama also has a Ftg type charge jutsu that he used to kill Izuna. Minato has NO such pure speed charging jutsu.
1). You have to be kidding... There is a HUGE difference which I posted up there^^ previously showing how little you know about the FTG compared to Minato's Vs tobirama's...
2). Minato can use kage bushin as well so you know very little again... and Minato can easily summon many kage bushin's at once with his beyond base naruto power level so do not even...
3). The HirashinGiri is not a pure SPEED jutsu, WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
It is tobirama after having tagged izuna, using level 1 FTG then using a sword slash once he arrives to slash the enemy...

What manga are you reading...!?!?

Quote:
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/624/12

Tobirama invented Edo Tensei and contrary to popular opinion, it was NOT a weak or imperfect jutsu. We know this from the reaction of the revived kages who all commented that this is the infamous jutsu of the 2nd.
LMAO, the 2nd CREATED the jutsu, but Orochimaru PERFECTED it, this is common knowlegde and some bas interpretation cannot change this, I am sorry... Manga concisely and clearly makes it clear...


And since Perfection increases the strength of the edo's, the imperfect edo's even below the ones that fought hiruzen, are freaking weak in comparison to the real shinobi, thus are like summoning genin level shinobi to fight for you which is not goign to make much of a difference...

Quote:
The 2nd also has incredible sensing abilities something that is light years ahead of Minato's limited finger sensing and add to everything stated above, imo Tobirama is CLEARLY superior to Minato.
Tobirama's sensing is literally the ONLY thing tobirama has beyond what minato does, but makes little difference considering the sensing is LIMITED by tobirama's average kage level reflexes to react...

And I have to disagree...
minato vs tobirama with abilities and feats
FTG level 1 tobi vs FTG level 1, 2 and 3 minato=Minato obviously wins with his levle 1 already way more effective then tobirama, thus the other 2 levels just make it that much more clear how ridiculously above tobi with the FTG he is...
Physical speed/reflexes of tobirama vs Minato=tobirama is no faster then his brother could is not faster then madara who could not even compete against V1 raikage, yet Minato easily able to react and physically move many times in the perceived instant it takes V2 riakage to move just a couple feet to completely own shows minato's>>Tobirama's easily...
And if you still do not believe then I refer you to V1 Juubito easily owning tobirama in one shot with his speed, yet the same level of speed attack was brushed off by Minato and his clone, While busy focusing on using his new jutsu too...
Brute strength/power of tobirama vs Minato= Tobirama has no real strength/power feats while Minato's basic rasengan has destructive power beyond the oodama rasengan and sage double rasengan so I will have to give it to Minato showing power beyond base level naruto and even a sage technique compared to NO strength/power feats form Tobirama...
Intelligence/analyzing/tactics of tobirama vs minato=Tobirama talks big and analyzes things good, but so does minato when he is not being an emo over his former student shown against Tobito and he actually thinks moves ahead (4) against Madara/Juubi by arriving then getting rid of the juubidama, placing a sela to protect naruto, as well as throwing one to the sea to get rid of the bijuudama while at the same time placing 3 seals to place the kage for the red sun barrier...
And tactically, Tobirama has not shown anything special while minato has shown his ability to choose effective tactics to overcome the enemy like against tobito as well as the Kyuubi...
So lack of feats for tobi vs Minato's gives it to minato...

FEATS:
:Tobirama has the feats of almost dying against Kin and gin with the 2nd raikage Helping him too. Vs Minato Taking on Killer B and V2 raikage at the same time withut even trying to kill the, and still having a draw...
: Tobirama killed Izuna, but Izuna was using NO MS jutsu while the attack looked like am Ambush during a war, not a 1 on 1 fight... So yea... Vs Minato beating full zetsu body enhanced Obito (who is easily on par with EMS madara with his kamui hax)+Kyuubi, 1 on 2, not in a war...
: Last but not least, tobirama died by the hands of 20 fodders.. Vs Mianto CHoosing to die by plot reasons by killing himself with the shiki fuujin when it was not needed...

CONCLUSION:
Minato is far superior... in Abilities and feats...

Quote:
Hashirama vs Minato: lol Hashi stomps. If this is KM Minato, its rape without lube. Why, because the bijuu and their chakra are literally SLAVES to Hashirama's will, and that is KM Minato's power source. Get it! If its non KM, Minato still loses. Hashirama will struggle to touch Minato because of FTG, but he has full knowledge of it, since its his brothers technique.
1). LMFAO!!! Minato at base is already too much with his speed vs even SM hashirama due to the FACT all Minato has to do is TOUCH Hashirama or throw a Kuna tag right by him with the help of kage bushin each able to move so fast you cannot even react while hashirama cannot possibly touch Minato with the ability to teleport to another country to avoid huge scale attacks if need be... Not to mention he can spread his kunai as far apart as he wants shown by his placement of seals to battle the large size of the Juubi as well as throwing one to the freaking sea while was miles upon miles away too...
Thus Minato can either throws Kunai tags to move too miles away or use tag all over the fire country or others to teleport too at the REFLEX of V2 raikage's speed...

Thus, Minato WILL TOUCH hashirama or throw a kuna tag right by him, therefore he will be able to blitz him at will befor ehe can even react, plus the fact hashirama already PROVED he can be killed by a KUNAI despite his body automatically healing damage it receives...

So How does Hashirama keep from being touched or being near a Kunai tag placed or thrown coupled with hashirama not even being able to touch Minato...

2). BM Minato would utterly OWN Hashirama!!! Especially since wood dragon is not even going to touch him to supress the chakra with FTG use coupled with Kyuubi level attacks applied with the FTG level 1,2 and 3 makes BM Minato>>Hashirama easily..

LMAO, you think a Bijuu Mode Minato applying ALL his super powered jutsu with FTG is not match for hashirama lol... Minato can create a Bijuudama, draw it into his time space barrier then throw a Kunai tag directly at hashirama to teleport the Bijuudama to hit him with an INSTANT Bijuudama which is Unavoidable, thus annihilating hashirama lol...
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People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
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then an illusion....


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Old 09-30-2013, 12:58 PM   #12
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

CONTINUED...

Quote:
Not only that, he can outlast Minato all day and he would NOT waste chakra using large scale attacks like the Buddha statute or Tree Dragon against Minato. Only the sharingan could see through his clones so good luck Minato spotting the fakes. Lol and in the unlikely event of Minato hitting Hashi with a rasengan and kunai, I'll reference Tobi (using a weak body version of Hashi) and how much damage was done to that body.
1). Buddha summon is hashirama freaking max to the power he lost SM after using it... And all that power/strength yet not having the speed to even touch Minato much less avoid being touched is why hashirama cannot win..
2). Minato touching the ground was able to notice one real shinobi and a bunch of kage bushin yet wood bushin are not even like kage bushin, thus Minato could easily spot the fakes and real one using his finger touch jutsu...
3). Obito that fought Minato was a DOUBLE body hashirama... It was a Zetsu body over a zetsu half body Obito which DOUBLED the durability...

Meanwhile, Hashirama could not even survive a Kunai stab lol, yet he will survive one the level of Minato's...


Quote:
The Senju Hokages are on a different level to their peers and subsequent predecessors.
LMAO, Hashirama is on another level in POWER, but his physical speed/reflexes are average kage level... However, SPEED>Power when it comes to striking which is WHY Minato can and would beat him...
And Tobirama has zabuza water jutsu, weak edo tensai if he can even use it as well as pathetic FTG compared to even Minato's level 1...

So much so he was killed by 20 fodder shinobi... and even one shoted by V1 Juubito... Yet he is on another level, I mean even hiruzen was not one shoted by V1 Juubito lol...

Sorry, Minato's speed puts him on the whole other level from most of the kage's other then Hashirama who is the only one on his level due to his ridiculous power... But Bijuu Mode Minato is easily>>Hashirama.... The power of Bijuu mode naruto plus minato's speed/jutsu...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
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Old 09-30-2013, 01:38 PM   #13
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.



Why the fuck I don't win the Euromillions?
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:01 PM   #14
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

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Why the fuck I don't win the Euromillions?
KYF "marking" out for a Minato vs. anyone thread is a literal guarantee. No risk/reward there.
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:02 PM   #15
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Re: Why Tobirama and Hashi>>>Minato.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post


Why the fuck I don't win the Euromillions?
Because you are dumb enough to believe that the knowledge of discerning right from wrong is hardwired like Instincts LMAO...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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