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Old 10-08-2013, 07:26 AM   #16
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

Quote:
Hashirama has Sage mode. You know, that thing that Naruto used on Pain that allowed him to stop a fucking rhino in its tracks without so much as a scratch? Minato can't hurt him, even if he can get the jump on him with FTG. Hashirama's skills are too far out of Minato's league.
I may be wrong but to my knowledge, nature energy can increase chakra, strength, speed, sense and defense but not to the point that a rasengan or kunai will bounce off your skull. I don't think anyone, not even KYF, disputes Hashi's strength advantage over Minato. In fact he owns pretty much everyone in the manga in a fight of brute force, only reason Madara lasted so long was because he had Kyuubi and Susanoo. I can only see pain being an actual challenge for him. But Minato is cheap, that's his advantage. Without FTG, Minato is at the level of a non-sharingan kakashi at best, from what I've seen. But with FTG, he own's basically everyone in the Manga.

It is my understanding (I could be wrong) that he can start an attack a mile away, slash the air at full speed and end his attack a millimeter outside you skull if you're tagged. There's practically no defense. For all Hashi's power, speed and experience the fact is if Minato tagged him and got behind him(w/o Hashi knowing he was using FTG), he'd already have a kunai inside Hashi's skull before his nervous system could register there was an attack, much less defend and plan a strategy.

Minato also could have easily killed obito after he Raseganed him with a simple kunai to neck while he was disoriented after the attack or by using a Kunai to the neck to begin with. If that happened the main villain would have been killed and the manga would have been over and Naruto would have grown up just fine. Obviously this wasn't done for plot convenience not because Minato was too weak. Minato could have easily killed Obito even now as the Juubi jink especially since Obito didn't even know he was tagged. Again, not done for plot convenience purposes. Same reason Flash always stands there like a dumbass waiting to get hit in JLU. If he actually used his power all the time, it'd be pretty boring to watch.

Quote:
Hashirama can spam jutsus for hours and not mention put Minato to sleep.
Again, that might only make sense in a prepped fight. Why would Hashi start off spamming justu if he didn't know about Minato's technique? He'd most likely start off with good old fashioned tajuistu like almost every fight in the manga. And even if he did spam or use a sleep genjustu, Minato can just teleport miles away and go to sleep or wait for him for to stop spamming justu and come back. If Hashi's not tagged, then he wins by Minato's retreat, which is not a definitive win. But if he is tagged then the fight is technically ongoing because he's always within Minato's attack range. He would have to endlessly protect himself to stay alive or trick Minato somehow. It can really go either way once Hashi's tagged and know's of Minato's technique. If he doesn't the edge goes to Minato. Not saying its a definitive win for Minato, just saying he has the edge.

Last edited by Alastor; 10-08-2013 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:27 AM   #17
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

Alastor: You seem to forget that is quite easy to counter a FTG tag, specially for Madara and Hashirama, considering they have methods to get rid of it or even pull a quick trap for Minato to jump in.

Quote:
Why would Hashi start off spamming justu if he didn't know about Minato's technique? He'd most likely start off with good old fashioned tajuistu like almost every fight in the manga.
Why the fuck would Hashirama, whose specialty is ranged area of effect abilities, start with Taijutsu? It'd be beyond dumb from his part since he'd pretty much give an outrageously open gap to be abused by his adversary.

Quote:
And even if he did spam or use a sleep genjustu, Minato can just teleport miles away and go to sleep or wait for him for to stop spamming justu and come back. If Hashi's not tagged, then he wins by Minato's retreat, which is not a definitive win. But if he is tagged then the fight is technically ongoing because he's always within Minato's attack range.
You forget that Minato would also be in Hashirama's range, and only someone delusional would think Hashirama can't counter Minato's very restricted ability kit while Hashirama has plenty to spam from, both offensively and defensively. Minato does NOT have any kind of edge against Hashirama, he is dependent on a gap that is very hard to find with Hashirama's Mokuton.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:18 PM   #18
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

Quote:
Alastor: You seem to forget that is quite easy to counter a FTG tag, specially for Madara and Hashirama, considering they have methods to get rid of it or even pull a quick trap for Minato to jump in.
Honestly, I didn't know that. If they can get rid of the seal, then Hashi creates a strategy to avoid his attacks and wins it.

Quote:
Why the fuck would Hashirama, whose specialty is ranged area of effect abilities, start with Taijutsu? It'd be beyond dumb from his part since he'd pretty much give an outrageously open gap to be abused by his adversary.
Idk, maybe for the same reason edo-Madara started off his battle against thousands of shinobi's with basic taijuistu. Granted he was invincible, but still thats a waste of time. For whatever reason, manga characters often like to start off sparing and use more power as it becomes necessary.

Quote:
You forget that Minato would also be in Hashirama's range, and only someone delusional would think Hashirama can't counter Minato's very restricted ability kit while Hashirama has plenty to spam from, both offensively and defensively. Minato does NOT have any kind of edge against Hashirama, he is dependent on a gap that is very hard to find with Hashirama's Mokuton.
Again, if Hashi can remove the seal then his cheap attack is taken away and Hashi wins it. Minato's only chance of winning is tagging him without him knowing and catching him off guarding with a surprise FTG attack. After that the jig is up and Hashi beats him quickly. I said he has the edge if he can appear behind you with a kunai a millimeter behind your head which is already traveling at full arm speed. There is no way anyone can block that if they find themselves in that position. As I said, the kunai would already be in your head before even realizing you were being attacked.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:13 PM   #19
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

Minato has to touch his target to tag them. Just as tobirama does. If Minato touched Hashirama, then vanished, Hashirama would figure out what he was doing. Hashirama wins.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:57 PM   #20
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

we really never seen minato have a real fight with no time limit
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:13 PM   #21
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

WTF is Minato going to hurt Harashimira with? Answer, nothing... bring out this new named Rasengen, it ain't enough. Couple of things, first of Harashirma heals betta than Tsunade, whom was skewered through her back by Edo-Madara's Susanno, and she broke it off, got hit by Susanno's ranged attack, and THEN healed. What are we talking about, its illogical.

Next, Harashirma's 1000 hands jutsu made the Susanno coverd Kyuubi look like a mongoose in front of a lion. That plus the damage alone would take up miles, his jutsu was TALLER THAN MOUNTAINS in the fucking area...

Lastly the ONLY shinobi whom ever 'saw through' Hara's wood clone, was Madara, and it was because of his sharingan, something Minato doesn't have, so therefore survey says he'd be spending hella time crushing clones until Harashirma got bored and wanted to do something else and just end the shit...

From the time of his birth, till his death, and even after, Minato never had any shot at defeating the 1st Hokage. He doesn't have a sufficient KKG, Bloodline Limit, Doujutsu, anything to stay in the fight with Harashirma. Intelligence, and speed are nice, but if Floyd Mayweather fought Muhammid Ali in his prime... that's what were talking about honestly, which is a retarded idea even to the deaf, dumb, and blind. Fin.

HE DIDN'T CALL HIMSELF THE GOD OF SHINOBI, EVERYBODY ELSE DID, INCLUDING MINATO, STOP IT SKIP!!!!
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:33 AM   #22
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
Again, that might only make sense in a prepped fight. Why would Hashi start off spamming justu if he didn't know about Minato's technique? He'd most likely start off with good old fashioned tajuistu like almost every fight in the manga.
Plz quote me where I said he's gonna spam jutsu in a fight. I was just stating he has a shit load more stamina than Minato.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
And even if he did spam or use a sleep genjustu, Minato can just teleport miles away and go to sleep or wait for him for to stop spamming justu and come back.
So now he can FTG in his sleep? Give me a break and don't say ridiculous shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
If Hashi's not tagged, then he wins by Minato's retreat, which is not a definitive win.
Lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
But if he is tagged then the fight is technically ongoing because he's always within Minato's attack range.
Alastor, my boy, you aren't getting it. Minato can be one step away from him, a planet away, placed one marks or a million marks on Hashi but then the question remains: what is Minato gonna do exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
He would have to endlessly protect himself to stay alive or trick Minato somehow. It can really go either way once Hashi's tagged and know's of Minato's technique. If he doesn't the edge goes to Minato. Not saying its a definitive win for Minato, just saying he has the edge.
If anyone has an edge it's Hashi since he should know about FTG from his brother. Minato's at a disadvantage entirely since he doesn't even knows all of Hashi's abilities. The best Minato has is little knife tricks and rasengans, what exactly can he besides this? Make a T/S barrier to teleport a tree away? Yeah, I didn't think so.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:02 AM   #23
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

That's a question, how many times in a manga must the author have characters spew 'He/She is the God of...' for it to be true Kyf? And Godlike means what? Fallible to lessor thans? Everything in Minato's body except speed is lessor than, you, me, and everyone knows it. There aren't but 3 other shinobi up with Madara, or Harashirma... that'd be Naruto, Sasuke, and Obito Reborn eat it, swallow it, consume it. Then let it rest for a while, your body will assimulate it, its called common sense.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:23 AM   #24
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

Quote:
WTF is Minato going to hurt Harashimira with? Answer, nothing... bring out this new named Rasengen, it ain't enough. Couple of things, first of Harashirma heals betta than Tsunade, whom was skewered through her back by Edo-Madara's Susanno, and she broke it off, got hit by Susanno's ranged attack, and THEN healed. What are we talking about, its illogical.

Next, Harashirma's 1000 hands jutsu made the Susanno coverd Kyuubi look like a mongoose in front of a lion. That plus the damage alone would take up miles, his jutsu was TALLER THAN MOUNTAINS in the fucking area...
First off, my only argument has been that if Hashirama is tagged, he has to avoid Minato materializing behind him with a rasengan or kunai a millimeter away from the back of his head. For some reason every one keeps comparing Minato to Hashi's power. It has already been conceded that Hashi is more powerful. Power is completely and utterly irrelevant if you end up in this situation...thats the point. A 1000 hands megazord or even 10 juubi's will not save you in this situation.


Quote:
Plz quote me where I said he's gonna spam jutsu in a fight. I was just stating he has a shit load more stamina than Minato.
You said he can spam justus for hours(presumably this would be in fight)...now if you were referring to stamina, then how exactly is stamina going to save Hashi if he has a kunai millimeter away from the back his neck(which has been my argument)?

Quote:
So now he can FTG in his sleep? Give me a break and don't say ridiculous shit.
You said he can put Minato to sleep. Obviously I was saying that if Minato feels himself falling asleep, he can just teleport miles away and sleep if he can't break the genjustu.

Quote:
Lol.
You can lol all you want, the fact is Hashi can never actually hurt Minato if he chooses to be a bitch, which is not a definitive win. Just like how no one could actually beat Tobi, because he was a such a bitch. It was this quality that made him such a threat, his style rendering power almost useless.

Quote:
Alastor, my boy, you aren't getting it. Minato can be one step away from him, a planet away, placed one marks or a million marks on Hashi but then the question remains: what is Minato gonna do exactly?
You do realize Hashi's head can be pierced quite easily with a simple Kunai, right? If Minato end's up behind him with a kunai a millimeter behind his head, Hashi's finished period. Now whether or not Minato can surprise Hashi with a FTG attack this way in an unprepped battle is debatable, obviously most people say no he can not. But my argument has only been that if he did, Hashi would be finished. This can not be denied. Again the Kunai would actually be in his head before his nervous system registered that attack, much less plan a defensive strategy now that he knows he's dealing with FTG.


Quote:
If anyone has an edge it's Hashi since he should know about FTG from his brother. Minato's at a disadvantage entirely since he doesn't even knows all of Hashi's abilities. The best Minato has is little knife tricks and rasengans, what exactly can he besides this? Make a T/S barrier to teleport a tree away? Yeah, I didn't think so
As I said before, if Minato can surprise(meaning Hashi doesn't know he can do it yet) Hashi with a FTG attack this way, he wins. That little knife and rasengan will kill Hashi easily if applied to the back of his head. That's the point.

Quote:
That's a question, how many times in a manga must the author have characters spew 'He/She is the God of...' for it to be true Kyf? And Godlike means what? Fallible to lessor thans? Everything in Minato's body except speed is lessor than, you, me, and everyone knows it. There aren't but 3 other shinobi up with Madara, or Harashirma... that'd be Naruto, Sasuke, and Obito Reborn eat it, swallow it, consume it. Then let it rest for a while, your body will assimulate it, its called common sense.
What the author says is completely irrelevant in this kind of situation. The author simply adjust the story to fit his imagination and the direction he wants the story to go. Meaning he can make characters do stupid things(armodillos for example which is stupid even by Naruto standards), not use full power or make up rules to so the story can progress the way the author wishes. For example, how the hell did obito survive boulder on his head and how the hell can he use Juubi's powers with such expertise without any training as jink. Minato also could have easily killed Obito but died trying to to progress the story. Then entire bleach manga was created around this principle. There are many examples of characters becoming uncharacteristic for story progression purposes. When imagining particular battles w/o that bias, the author's labels can easily be overridden. In particular, cheap kills are now allowed.
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:04 PM   #25
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

@ Alastor: the problem with your argumentation is that you're arguing for an hypothetical situation where Minato already positioned himself to win by default, which, of course, makes Minato win if he isn't stupid enough to abandon the situation.

What people are arguing here does NOT involve such situation by default, Minato needs to create the situation. What people are arguing is that his chances to position himself in such situation are very low to null.

In other words, what you say is technically right but it isn't of much practical use for the broader discussion.
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:06 PM   #26
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

Konahamaru, obviously. Minato only does a one handed rasengan, but Konahamaru does two handed two bodied rasegans. More=better, therefore Konohamaru is better than Minato.
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Quotes for noobs (learn how to break up a quote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future
So you can post the second bit and i shouldnt be allowed to if i dont tell you? Why be so rude?

Anyways, here is a quotes for noobs guide


1. A basic quote

[*QUOTE][*/QUOTE]

(the * need to be removed for it to work, I put them in so you can see the text) is a basic quote that just wraps something in a quote without saying who quoted it who quoted so

[*QUOTE]this is a quote[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
this is a quote

Edit: there is a button for this, it looks like a speech bubble. If you select text and then press the button the selected text will automatically be wrapped with the quote tag


2. A quote that says who said it

[*QUOTE=who said it][*/QUOTE] this adds who said the post, manually putting that there can be useful when quoting something external. Example:

[*QUOTE=Mangastream]Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangastream
Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us
3. A quote that says who said it and links to the post where it was said

[*QUOTE=who said it;X][*/QUOTE]

Where X is the post number.

For the post that i originally quoted it would look like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]

That is what you get when you press the quote button.

4. Breaking up a quote

Now that you know how quotes work it all boils down to preference, how you want it to look like and how you want to do it.

One way of doing it is copying the latter part of the original quote [*/QUOTE] and then pasting it after each section you break up, write your reply, choose the text you want then paste it after that portion, repeat till you finish the go back and copy then paste the first part of the text at the beginning of each portion of text. Of course you can immediately copy and paste both parts of a poste so that you dont forget one in the end.

The end result would be something like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4



Which without any * would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4


Another way of doing it would be to cut and paste the second part of the quote tag after the first section of text you want to seperate then write your reply select the second part and hit he quote button (it looks like a text bubble),if you do that without anything else the end result would be

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4

Which would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4

To make it like the previous example (which wpuld be preferred, though not necessary ) copy the part that says who posted with the link to the post and paste it accordingly to the proper part in each first half of each quote tag. In my I would copy =minato uchiha;2118164 and paste it where the # is
[*QUOTE#] to get [*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] (of course with the * removed)


Of course you can use any other method you like to get to the end result, but now that you know what the end rwsult looks like I think there shouldnt be any problems
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:53 PM   #27
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

Quote:
What the author says is completely irrelevant in this kind of situation
Just to show you how illogical you are Alastor. I was gonna do this back and forth shit with you but it's not worth it so I'll end it here. Your whole argument is illogical in every aspect the moment you started creating scenarios. You can make all the scenarios you want but guess what they're ALL bias. So even if you thought you were right, you were wrong to even put a scenario in an argument especially when the author states himself that Hashi is better than Minato.
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:11 PM   #28
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
You can lol all you want, the fact is Hashi can never actually hurt Minato if he chooses to be a bitch, which is not a definitive win. Just like how no one could actually beat Tobi, because he was a such a bitch. It was this quality that made him such a threat, his style rendering power almost useless.



You do realize Hashi's head can be pierced quite easily with a simple Kunai, right? If Minato end's up behind him with a kunai a millimeter behind his head, Hashi's finished period. Now whether or not Minato can surprise Hashi with a FTG attack this way in an unprepped battle is debatable, obviously most people say no he can not. But my argument has only been that if he did, Hashi would be finished. This can not be denied. Again the Kunai would actually be in his head before his nervous system registered that attack, much less plan a defensive strategy now that he knows he's dealing with FTG.
You say that the kunai would already be in his head before his nervous system registered it, but how far deep in his head, and how fast would he be able to react once it is registered? We do not know. But what we do know is that Hashi can make wood come straight out of his body, maybe in time to prevent the kunai from killing him. And we also know that he could heal himself like brand new once he removed whatever portion of the kunai entered his head. I would bet that Kishi would agree that Minato would not just appear behind the god of shinobi, stab him, and then the fight would be over.

And with Hashi now knowing that Minato can use S/T techniques, even if he was not fast enough to react to it, who is to say that he would not give himself a wood shield and allow his wood to chase, attack, and defeat Minato just like Gaara gave himself a sand shield and allowed his sand to chase, attack, and defeat Rock Lee? If your opponent is too fast for you, then defense is a necessity. Hashi has all the potential to make his wood strong enough that neither Minato's kunai nor rasengan could pierce.
Minato keeps trying until he has used up so much chakra that he is now no faster than anyone else, including the 1st Hokage's wood, which can come from anywhereout of his body and the ground, and then Minato is killed.

Think of it like this. Kakashi was not fast enough to physically move out of the way of Sasuke's Susanoo arrows, but he was fast enough to activate his MS, something that is not even natural to him and consumes a great deal of his chakra, to suck in Susanoo's arrow. I expect that the 1st Hokage would be able to react just as fast if not faster with his wood than Kakashi did with his MS even if the Hashi is not physically fast enough to defend himself from Minato. And Minato's strike speed does not seem amazing, considering he could not stab the Raikage in the back before Killa B's tentacle was able to knock Rai out of the way and take the blow instead.

As far as if Minato wants to be a bitch, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Hashi's wood abilities, as displayed by Zetsu, I believe, allow him to sense people over great distances? If I am correct, Minato's bitch ass would be found and stabbed or grabbed and crushed by wood coming out of the ground while Hashi is still miles away at the battlefield from which Minato just fled.
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:11 PM   #29
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Re: number_off_character_stronger_than_minat o

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Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
First off, my only argument has been that if Hashirama is tagged, he has to avoid Minato materializing behind him with a rasengan or kunai a millimeter away from the back of his head. For some reason every one keeps comparing Minato to Hashi's power. It has already been conceded that Hashi is more powerful. Power is completely and utterly irrelevant if you end up in this situation...thats the point. A 1000 hands megazord or even 10 juubi's will not save you in this situation.




You said he can spam justus for hours(presumably this would be in fight)...now if you were referring to stamina, then how exactly is stamina going to save Hashi if he has a kunai millimeter away from the back his neck(which has been my argument)?



You said he can put Minato to sleep. Obviously I was saying that if Minato feels himself falling asleep, he can just teleport miles away and sleep if he can't break the genjustu.



You can lol all you want, the fact is Hashi can never actually hurt Minato if he chooses to be a bitch, which is not a definitive win. Just like how no one could actually beat Tobi, because he was a such a bitch. It was this quality that made him such a threat, his style rendering power almost useless.



You do realize Hashi's head can be pierced quite easily with a simple Kunai, right? If Minato end's up behind him with a kunai a millimeter behind his head, Hashi's finished period. Now whether or not Minato can surprise Hashi with a FTG attack this way in an unprepped battle is debatable, obviously most people say no he can not. But my argument has only been that if he did, Hashi would be finished. This can not be denied. Again the Kunai would actually be in his head before his nervous system registered that attack, much less plan a defensive strategy now that he knows he's dealing with FTG.




As I said before, if Minato can surprise(meaning Hashi doesn't know he can do it yet) Hashi with a FTG attack this way, he wins. That little knife and rasengan will kill Hashi easily if applied to the back of his head. That's the point.



What the author says is completely irrelevant in this kind of situation. The author simply adjust the story to fit his imagination and the direction he wants the story to go. Meaning he can make characters do stupid things(armodillos for example which is stupid even by Naruto standards), not use full power or make up rules to so the story can progress the way the author wishes. For example, how the hell did obito survive boulder on his head and how the hell can he use Juubi's powers with such expertise without any training as jink. Minato also could have easily killed Obito but died trying to to progress the story. Then entire bleach manga was created around this principle. There are many examples of characters becoming uncharacteristic for story progression purposes. When imagining particular battles w/o that bias, the author's labels can easily be overridden. In particular, cheap kills are now allowed.
Not hating, but since Madara stated he's the only shinobi that could see through his Wood Clone style with his sharingan, so how could he ever know? Super Uber Obito ran into the clone at the beginning, and missed Harashirma. Since he's started no ones even come in range of even scratching Hara once. Plus Obito has already surpassed Minatos speed, that's why he has no arm. Edo Madara hasn't even had one opportunity to harm Hara, but Minato can? To each they're own, just doesn't sit as logical. All his living life shinobi from his era who's obviously stronger IMHO, had the same opportunity to kunai stab him in the head, it never happened... That's saying something.

On another note, just watched the anime this week, Veng you're correct, 1 on 1 Madara without Rinnengan/Hara's DNA from the past would've prolly died to Kabuto... it took 2 elite level sharingan to stop him. Just hitting him means nothing, he turns liquid like Suigetsu, and his jutsu almost ended both of these Uchiha's within they're Susanno's. With Sage Mode and all his enhancements, he's a fucking monster. I'd put him above Obito until he became the 10 Tail Jink. Just my take.
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