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Old 11-07-2013, 03:35 AM   #46
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Re: Naruto 654

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Originally Posted by apacolypz View Post
Personally for me....If Oro somehow absorbs or body jumps into Obito and emerges as the final villain I would not have an issue with it.
One sharingan and one rinnegan, for what more can Orochu ask? This should be a dream come true for him. I'm almost expecting him to pounce on Obito's eyes, one way or another, now that you mentioned it. It would make perfect sense for Orochu to at least try to get his hands on that rinnegan at least if not also the sharingan, either taking the body or just the eyes. It's so in his character to make that attempt.
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Old 11-07-2013, 03:53 AM   #47
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Re: Naruto 654

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Originally Posted by liondemon View Post
One sharingan and one rinnegan, for what more can Orochu ask? This should be a dream come true for him. I'm almost expecting him to pounce on Obito's eyes, one way or another, now that you mentioned it. It would make perfect sense for Orochu to at least try to get his hands on that rinnegan at least if not also the sharingan, either taking the body or just the eyes. It's so in his character to make that attempt.
Yeah it is the ideal situation but he is more concerned with Sasuke's transition...his growth , his resolve. Sasuke is kinda the reason Oro continues on. He aides Konoah even though his one time goal was to crush them. Oro has changed incredibly, his passion is still knowing and understanding this world...though his power hungry drive is depleted.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:45 AM   #48
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Re: Naruto 654

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Originally Posted by apacolypz View Post
Yeah it is the ideal situation but he is more concerned with Sasuke's transition...his growth , his resolve. Sasuke is kinda the reason Oro continues on. He aides Konoah even though his one time goal was to crush them. Oro has changed incredibly, his passion is still knowing and understanding this world...though his power hungry drive is depleted.
So he says. I seriously doubt if Orochu cares that much about Sasuke's growth and resolve. It probably intrigues him, but not nearly as much as getting his hands on a rinnegan and sharingan of Obito's caliber.
I wouldn't say that Orochu has changed incredibly. I never saw him as the power-hungry type. I saw him as a ninja who would do whatever it took to, as you put it, know and understand this world. The sharingan would've greatly helped him with that. Orochu is an opportunist, and this is his opportunity to continue with his life-long ambitions. Taking over Obito's body or just taking Obito's eyes would not be a power-hungry move, in my opinion, just a logical one for Orochumaru, whether or not he plans to keep fighting alongside the alliance or just say, "Screw you guys, I'm going home."

I believe that he tried to destroy Konoha for more than one reason, one of them being to say to his beloved sensei, "This is what you get for not making me Hokage," and "Look how great I've become, sensei, aren't you impressed?" I don't believe it's ever really been about power for him. Orochu, being the opportunist that he is, knows that aiding Konoha at the moment is his best chance to see, learn, and possibly steal more jutsus from great shinobi, and possibly their DNA as well.

I view Orochu kind of like a Danzou, only everything he does is for himself. Danzou had no problems killing or threatening anyone, including children, all to protect Konoha, or at least that's what he always told himself was his reason. Danzou seemed more power-hungry to me than Orochumaru did. I see Orochu more as a free spirit than anything else. Today, the wind is blowing him to assist Sasuke and his sensei. Tomorrow, the wind will be blowing him to steal some sharingans, rinnegans, and possibly another body in order to continue with his life-long goals.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:57 AM   #49
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Re: Naruto 654

Let's all pray....I mean don't get me wrong...I desire for Oro to return to his blood thirsty ways.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:04 AM   #50
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Re: Naruto 654

Nah Oro won't get the chance, Lazy Assed Madara's coming now to fight everyone alone. And He'll be a problem, HE Shouldn't, but he will be. Final killing blow will go to New Good Obito, and Kakashi MS Tech. Called the rest of this trash, let the soap opera continue.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:43 AM   #51
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Re: Naruto 654

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
So a utterly sappy and borderline nonsensical TnJ involving a tug-of-war with 2 pages dedicated to everyone's face in the crapper against a 30 year-old who is still sighing in the corners over his teen crush who died 17 years ago is a good defeat? Seems legit.



Wow, you're stupid. There's a huge difference between things not going your way and things going rotten and you have to be a dimwit to not know what it is.



Just because it was expected doesn't mean it was good. On the contrary, it managed to be worst than expected.

First, I'd just like to say that anyone who actually thinks this manga is still good after all this time is so far gone from the general standards most critics use that they simply can't be brought back. Anything said to them simply wouldn't make sense.

Second, this chapter was quite disturbing for me. I mean after all that Obito has done, his resolve was basically broken simply by a good pep talk and a reflection involving Rin. This is practically an admittance from Kishi that Obito's motivation came from incredible stupid reasoning in the first place. A good villain should always have a justifiable and convincing cause behind his actions, like Itachi and Pain. Obito has always lacked this terribly and each chapter seems highlight this fact.

Last, I still find it amusing that a manga about ninjas trained to be assassins and bodyguards can be so profoundly enveloped in themes you would expect to find in a care bare movie. And that a character who comes off as a low self-esteem virgin who can't get a girlfriend has somehow hijacked the manga and became the supposedly badass main villain. It really is quite a historical fail at story writing. Never seen anything like it.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:23 PM   #52
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Re: Naruto 654

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
So a utterly sappy and borderline nonsensical TnJ involving a tug-of-war with 2 pages dedicated to everyone's face in the crapper against a 30 year-old who is still sighing in the corners over his teen crush who died 17 years ago is a good defeat? Seems legit.
Nonsensical my ass... Apparently so many of you have a memory of shit that you cannot remember for so long naruto has TNJ'ed Obito, proved his resolve and ONLY in the end after achieving his goal of becoming the next sage of six paths to have the power to change the world as he sees fit, Obito's defeat coupled with the unleashing of hidden desires to be who he was is what brought on his redemption, not some out of left field BS...

It was set up for many many chapters and was done as good as it can be for Obito to be redeemed without having to die in the process...

Quote:
Wow, you're stupid. There's a huge difference between things not going your way and things going rotten and you have to be a dimwit to not know what it is.
Wow your stupid, dimwit, BOOHOO!!!.... Keep projecting...

Things clearly did not go how you specifically desired so you bitch and moan like a little bitch and act out like the 3rd grader you are when I call you on your shit...

How have things gone rotten? What was so wrong with the way the TNJ and redemption went?
All you do is bitch without actually giving a single logical reason other then, Me no happy, B-O-O-H-O-O...

Quote:
Just because it was expected doesn't mean it was good. On the contrary, it managed to be worst than expected.
How was it worse then expected? All you do is make claims without giving a single damn reason WHY... IMO, you just need french cries and a Whine'akin with all that BOOHOO...

I do not know what is so wrong about Obito needing to be broken down slowly throughout the battles, then ONLY by attaining his goal was hidden desires of his old self and how things were uncovered as well as allowing naruto to LINk with Obito to discover these hidden desires to be used to break down the facade of "No one" so Obito can become the person he used to be.

And in the end, it was ONLY the use of a memory of RIN expressing her devotion to OBITO as he tries to become Hokake that put the final nail in the coffin and snapped obito out of his screwed up state of mind.

So what is so wrong with the way this went Exactly?
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:40 PM   #53
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Re: Naruto 654

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Nonsensical my ass... Apparently so many of you have a memory of shit that you cannot remember for so long naruto has TNJ'ed Obito, proved his resolve and ONLY in the end after achieving his goal of becoming the next sage of six paths to have the power to change the world as he sees fit, Obito's defeat coupled with the unleashing of hidden desires to be who he was is what brought on his redemption, not some out of left field BS...
You mad bra? You must be mad because your sentence structure is all over the place. Try re-reading what you type before posting it so it could actually make sense to people who don't speak KYF.

As for it not being out of left field BS you're right. It was obvious from the beginning that Obito would be redeemed which is part of the problem. If a story becomes too predictable it gets boring since you already know what's going to happen. But that's besides the point since having a so called final villain with no realistic motive for his actions, no personality development(Obito in his mind is still a 15 year old child), no sense of conviction(Huge problem), while also being nothing more than a puppet for another character(Madara) is simply put bad writing. All we need now is for Obito to use Rinnetensai so Neji can be revived(probable since this manga lost its sense of danger years ago) and the cluster fuck would be completed.

PS: I ignored the rest of your post since it just sounded like you were crying. Just get to the point and move on man we all read the manga.
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Old 11-07-2013, 02:31 PM   #54
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Re: Naruto 654

I liked Obito for a bit then he turned into Naruto's bitch later on. Why? Why? Why?
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:52 PM   #55
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Re: Naruto 654

Edit: Sorry for the longass post, but had to be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
You mad bra? You must be mad because your sentence structure is all over the place. Try re-reading what you type before posting it so it could actually make sense to people who don't speak KYF.
The irony is that I understood it because that's how people who aren't English native speakers and suck hard at it write.

Now to specific quotes:

Quote:
It was set up for many many chapters and was done as good as it can be for Obito to be redeemed without having to die in the process...
Here's the question: what is wrong with the possibility of Obito dying? Why couldn't it be considered a possible outcome? I'm not saying he should have died, but if the option between a sappy and crappy TnJ and a death that could have been better or worse, why not opt for the latter?

Quote:
Things clearly did not go how you specifically desired so you bitch and moan like a little bitch and act out like the 3rd grader you are when I call you on your shit...
You clealy know me so well that you failed to even attempt to comprehend where I'm coming from. I'm not a complete moron like you to expect a manga created by someone else to follow my desires, on the contrary, I like when manga throw a curveball at what I think might happen if it's well executed. Two key concepts here, expectation and execution.

Let's take another well-known Shounen as example, Death Note. This is the mother lode of playing with the readers expectations and it's one of my favorites. Despite the reveal of Light as Kira being something I expected, the mangaka just kept from throwing curveballs one after the other. When I thought Light was pinned down, he managed to slip away. When I thought L would be the one catching Light, nope, Light gets him killed by Rem. And I didn't whine at any of it because the mangaka knew how to execute his plot. The characters were interesting, their lines of thought were logical, their plans made sense and the twists simply got me hooked and trying to guess what would happen, no matter if those guesses were right or wrong. As a summary, Death Note challenged me as a reader.

Where's the challenge on the whole that is Obito?
  1. His conviction is not only weak, it isn't even his (considering it's Madara's) and it's just a poor man's clone of Nagato's conviction a prior villain.
  2. The parallel to Naruto was already executed much, MUCH better with Gaara and Nagato, being the main factor that they weren't horribly shoehorned. Case in point, revealing that he was an orphan like Naruto only when it can be used as artillery for Naruto's TnJ. Such a vital aspect of Obito's condition was treated as a mere factoid that seemingly Kishimoto thought it wasn't worth exploring beyond a single line.
  3. His motivation is just pathetic. If I went back in time, back when I started reading the manga and told my past self that the second-to-last villain's motivation was his teen crush that died 17 years ago, my past self would probably say that I was trolling him. This whole Rin affair is simply hilarious because it lacks any proper seriousness, it's like if Final Fantasy VI's final boss was Ultros, the comic relief octopus who wants to cop a feel from the ladies.
  4. Finally, when I said the Obito's TnJ was "borderline nonsensical", what clearly flew above your head is that it is nonsensical because of Naruto's arguments. If Kishimoto actually bothered to give Naruto even the faintest of ideas for his long path, if he bothered to flesh out the bonds he has with others (that aren't named Sasuke) instead of plastering the friend tag to Tenten and Shino and pretend Naruto even addressed more than two lines to them after Sai was introduced (which I remind you that it was in chapter 283, more than half the manga ago), they would make sense and actually be the height of Naruto's acumen instead of being pretty but utterly hollow words.
To summarize, the execution was severely flawed for many reasons but what really grinds my gears is that the flaws could have been easily avoided if Kishimoto didn't deviate to the current path.

Quote:
All you do is bitch without actually giving a single logical reason other then, Me no happy, B-O-O-H-O-O...
You do know that your vain attempt at taking a shot at me only reveals that you don't even bother to read other people's posts, right? I have written countless times WHY the latest chapters are taking a quality dive, and like I did many others did, so why don't you actually go back and read what people say instead of ignoring and then whining like a baby about people criticizing your precious manga?

Quote:
I do not know what is so wrong about Obito needing to be broken down slowly throughout the battles, then ONLY by attaining his goal was hidden desires of his old self and how things were uncovered as well as allowing naruto to LINk with Obito to discover these hidden desires to be used to break down the facade of "No one" so Obito can become the person he used to be.

And in the end, it was ONLY the use of a memory of RIN expressing her devotion to OBITO as he tries to become Hokake that put the final nail in the coffin and snapped obito out of his screwed up state of mind.

So what is so wrong with the way this went Exactly?
Do I really have to say it?
  1. Obito was broken down throughout his battle with Naruto... where? What I saw was Obito just calling on Naruto's bullshit and getting denied because Gary Stu Naruto kept replying with hypocritical shenanigans like "majority rules!". And last time I checked, being denied isn't synonymous with being broken down.
  2. He didn't attain his goal because of the desires of his past self because they were still the desires of his present self. Or did you by any chance forgot the infamous "because you let Rin die" line? If you actually paid attention to the narrative instead of pulling silly apologetics out of your ass, you'd know that nothing at all changed about Obito's obsession over Rin during this gargantuan arc. What actually changed during the TnJ was the ridiculous fact that Obito forgot about Rin's character. And his obsession is pretty much what destroys Obito's character, because when he was being literally torn apart, he didn't even think of self-preservation, no, he had to think of his dead teen crush.
  3. The very fact that Obito's TnJ was about reverting the "nobody" to his past self is the core of why the TnJ sucked major balls. It's the same issue with Nagato's TnJ which also sucked hard, these are two characters that know very well the shit they passed through and abandoned their original personas because they simply weren't those people anymore. By reverting them, not only it is oversimplifying the human psyche (specially of Nagato's and Obito's, who became psychopaths by the book), it's insulting the intelligence of the many readers and setting a bad example for other readers that you can just revert people to their former selves by reminding of them.
  4. And you really don't see a problem with Rin being pretty much the McGuffin of the whole manga? And it's not even by George Lucas definition of it, it's by Hitchcock's where the McGuffin is simply a random piece of nothing that sets forth the plot. She's bare bones in terms of characterization, her presence in the plot is minimal, her relevancy history-wise is nonexistent but the moment she dies, boom, every goddamn plot thread of this manga spawns from her. How can a reader with a brain take any of this seriously? She's nobody but Kishimoto thinks that by dropping her like an anvil every goddamn chapter will somehow make her somebody. No, it doesn't work like that, he had 650 fucking chapters to set the whole thing flowing like silk but instead he just went for the sandpaper in the last 100 chapters.
There, are you satisfied or will you whine like a little bitch about how we are being oh-so mean to poor lil' Naruto manga?
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:26 PM   #56
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Re: Naruto 654

The sad part is that Kishi actually had a chance to pull off this TnJ bullshit if it had come from someone besides Naruto. Like Minato for example, who could relate to him as someone who has lost the woman he loved. Or Kakashi in the context that he briefly met his dad in the afterlife, and that Obito could rest assured that he himself would meet up with Rin there eventually. Either way could have been better than what we got by leaps and bounds.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:33 PM   #57
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Re: Naruto 654

KYF, you don't see it as a problem that no one dies in this rag? The jokes that has been posted include Jiraiya, Itachi, and Yamato. Even Itachi came back as an Edo, and did moar there than in his whole life on panel. Characters, ALL of them suffer without some significant death in a shonen manga, that's just the way its been since forever. Loss changes, and adds to all characters, that's just a known fact.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:56 PM   #58
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Re: Naruto 654

I don't know what you guys are talking about???..So many people die in this manga

Please go back and count all the zetsu and edo's that were killed.

This manga kill count is 8000% more than any other manga.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:43 PM   #59
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Re: Naruto 654

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Originally Posted by Senkradlol View Post
I don't know what you guys are talking about???..So many people die in this manga

Please go back and count all the zetsu and edo's that were killed.

This manga kill count is 8000% more than any other manga.
The sad part is, I kinda agree with this. Not because you're right, more because Viet Con fodder in a Rambo movie have better character development than 95% of the people in this manga. Ninja war death fodder included.
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Last edited by emachina; 11-07-2013 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:40 AM   #60
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Re: Naruto 654

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Originally Posted by apacolypz View Post
Let's all pray....I mean don't get me wrong...I desire for Oro to return to his blood thirsty ways.
Orochimaru just seems like a plot device these days. How else would Kishi figure out a way to keep Madara busy? Orochimaru coming back and resummoning the sealed Kages was an asspull of an asspull in order to save Kishi's skin.
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