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Old 11-30-2013, 03:08 AM   #31
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Re: Naruto 656

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Originally Posted by MrBIG View Post
Hashimara, one of the greatest ninjas to have ever lived; God among shinobis. Yet he knows no sealing jutsus.

Amazing.
He was married to an Uzumaki. He knows seals.
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Old 11-30-2013, 05:18 AM   #32
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Re: Naruto 656

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Originally Posted by ACt View Post
Don't know what KYF is talking about. Did any of us not believe Madara was going to shed his dead zombie form for a form that Naruto and Sasuke could beat? You know, that thing where the villains attain their true goal but it actually makes them vulnerable? You know, the thing that happens in every story where someone seems unbeatable?

C'mon Trope Monkeys, help me out here.
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:08 PM   #33
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Re: Naruto 656

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
I wonder if kyf realizes that Madara is now holding the juubi, which grants him enough power to break out of Hashirama's seals.
LMAO... Yea... You saw Madara holding the Juubi, which is the god tree in it's original form, somehow get more powerful at the exact same time he was revived back into a living body... So it has nothing to do with madara being made flesh again, thus somehow getting stronger for w/e reason he was weaker as an edo...

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
@bolded: Funny, because not only I did not see anyone say that, you're quite an humble person to dictate what others think, don't you think?

And no shit Sherlock, that nobody could possibly guess how exactly would this chapter roll, what you clearly ignored is that people, including myself, said that something incredibly contrived and stupid would have to happen to Madara in order to defeat him. And behold, he gave himself the nerfbat just to confirm that suspicion. Sorry if your fanboyism didn't allow you to see the obvious.

And no matter how much you wank about how Madara is oh-so cool, he can die and/or run out of chakra. So what if he has more pew-pew-laz0rs, he willingly gave himself two, TWO, weaknesses that are much more exploitable than the one he had (being sealed).



Unless I missed some panel, Madara doesn't have the Juubi at all. He might subdue the Bijuu later, but right now he doesn't have access to that power.
1). Madara told everyone that he was going to steal hashirama's sage chakra to take control of the tree... SO all the sudden that madara proves he was lying and you or no one else said that he was, all the sudden did not believe that to be his goal...

God god you are an arrogant little shit, you know that... "I knew something was going to happen becuase I claim it despite not predicting it"...

2). Madara as an edo has the healing power of hashirama plus his chakra and his own so with advanced healing a such a huge chakra level/stamina already... ET did not give him much of an advantage... Your just cherry picking as usual to try and conform info to fit with your preconceived ideas of how things will happen..

All while also ignoring that madara being brought back to life became so much stronger, he broke out of 2 of hashirama's SAGE sealing posts and sai's tiger ink seal at the same time... and that is a feat beyond what V1 Juubito achieved before other then breaking the red sun seal of the kages...

So did madara weaken himself? Fuck NO! He already had advanced healing which when added with preta paths defense plus susanoo makes him almost impossible to hit, much less hurt...

Not to mention that Madara can now became a true sage of six paths with a living body too... Yes, madara can now absorb the bijuu like Obito did...

3). Again, Madara will the power level/stamina of his prime+hashirama/9tails makes the infinite stamina of ET not much of a power up considering the level of stamina he already has as a being of himself in his prime and hashirama...

So delude yourself all you want that madara losing SOME stamina and SOME healing>gaining brute strength beyond V1 Juubito and who knows how much more abilities since being an edo summoned by half a Muu which likely made madara weaker then he should have been... as I have been saying all along...

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Originally Posted by ACt View Post
Don't know what KYF is talking about. Did any of us not believe Madara was going to shed his dead zombie form for a form that Naruto and Sasuke could beat? You know, that thing where the villains attain their true goal but it actually makes them vulnerable? You know, the thing that happens in every story where someone seems unbeatable?

C'mon Trope Monkeys, help me out here.
Edo madara getting far more powerful, thus gaining a far more powerful preta paths power, Hell realms power to heal any amount of damage and bring back the dead, susanoo 1-4 and hashirama's advanced healing makes his living self> a weaker preta path power, susanoo 1-4 and instant healing that can still be bypassed by Yin/Yang jutsu, regular sealing, Izanami, ect....

Your ignoring the advantages that the increased power that madara likely has now does for his other abilities to increase his defense far beyond what edo version could do.

Hell realms power alone=instant regeneration so losing one of the same abilities to gain more power is not weakening.

And actually posting evidence that you predicted that Madara would be brought back with Gedo rinne tensai by Obito, but become stronger as a living being would be the ONLY accurate prediction because that is what happened... But, in order to delude yourselves that you were right, you act like madara being revived made him weaker despite his beyond V1 Juubito level of brute strength and already having some many healing abilities with hashirama's auto-healing+hell realms healing and dead reviving power...
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And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


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People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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Old 11-30-2013, 02:22 PM   #34
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Re: Naruto 656

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Originally Posted by Numinous View Post


  • Villain ball does not even apply to madara...
    : Madara did not choose to fight instead of letting a lacky take care of it...
    : Did not needlessly over complicate a plan to torture anyone...
    : Or, use some preference for a grisly and complicated Death Trap over more pragmatic hero-disposal solutions

    This applies even less then the previous because madara does not do something to the enemy that ends up powering them up and screwing himself.

Lol, and madara did not and in all likelihood will not end up killing himself trying to do something to naruto or sasuke... WTF...

Quote:
You're welcome.
Your welcome... did you even read any of these and actually reasonably Link madara to one of them??? Then again, you think a guy with hashirama autohealing and hell realms ultimate healing+dead revival losing instant healing from edo tensai weakens him, ignoring that he already had the 2 of the same ability thanks to hashirama's cells and the RG's power...

SO how was madara weakened by this exactly???
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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Old 11-30-2013, 02:29 PM   #35
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Re: Naruto 656

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
He was married to an Uzumaki. He knows seals.
Conjecture... Naruto was born an uzumaki and son to one yet he does not know seals...

The ONLY way to know if hashirama knows any is IF he uses one... And arguing he must know some becuase he was married to an uzumaki is just pure conjecture...
and arguing that MInato learned seals by being married to an uzumaki, thus hashirama should have and did as well is a fallacy of composition...

Hashirama is capable of using seals when he is shown doing it or confirmed by the a databook...
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KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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Old 11-30-2013, 02:48 PM   #36
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Re: Naruto 656

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Conjecture... Naruto was born an uzumaki and son to one yet he does not know seals...
Correction. Naruto didn't have any family to teach him sealing techniques. Hashirama spent years with an Uzumaki. Minato spent years with an Uzumaki. Naruto spent years alone. Major difference there.

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The ONLY way to know if hashirama knows any is IF he uses one...
...you are aware that the crap pinning Madara down is a seal, right? It's just not permanent.
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Old 11-30-2013, 07:25 PM   #37
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Re: Naruto 656

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
1). Madara told everyone that he was going to steal hashirama's sage chakra to take control of the tree... SO all the sudden that madara proves he was lying and you or no one else said that he was, all the sudden did not believe that to be his goal...

God god you are an arrogant little shit, you know that... "I knew something was going to happen becuase I claim it despite not predicting it"...
@ bolded: Says the guy who is stating what others were thinking. Oh, the hypocrisy. But, do tell me KYF, how the fuck is Madara having a goal and Kishimoto nerfing him to be actually defeated mutually exclusive? Because only with your explanation I might see your line of thought as something that is not the moronic and false dichotomy you seemingly conjured up.

Quote:
2). Madara as an edo has the healing power of hashirama plus his chakra and his own so with advanced healing a such a huge chakra level/stamina already... ET did not give him much of an advantage...Your just cherry picking as usual to try and conform info to fit with your preconceived ideas of how things will happen..
I beg your pardon? Not only we do not have any quantitative data to assert how much regeneration power and how big Madara's chakra pool is while alive and how much of both would be required reach their peak of usefulness (in other words, the very evidence that your shameful asspull requires to be a legitimate argument), what part of your tiny brain doesn't compute that infinity is always bigger than any finite number?

Quote:
All while also ignoring that madara being brought back to life became so much stronger (...)
So did madara weaken himself? Fuck NO!
Being mortal and having a chakra pool cap are weaknesses he didn't have before so YES, he did weaken himself. No amount of offensive power will cover up those two huge flaws because he's the fucking final villain, you twat, he's contractually bound to lose.

I'll just skip the rest of this wretched Madara fanwanking. At least you allowed Minato's dick to recover from the soreness of so much labial friction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Villain ball does not even apply to madara...
: Madara did not choose to fight instead of letting a lacky take care of it...
: Did not needlessly over complicate a plan to torture anyone...
: Or, use some preference for a grisly and complicated Death Trap over more pragmatic hero-disposal solutions
Wow, you're stupid. So instead of attempting to comprehend the goddamn trope, you just read the summary and cherry pick the shit out of it just to say Madara doesn't fit 3 of the examples that are provided. Stay classy like that. Since I'm such a generous person, here's the key phrase of Villain Ball:

Quote:
Basically, they're saddled with carrying their own version of the Idiot Ball: the Villain Ball.
And Idiot Ball is...

Quote:
A moment where a character's stupidity fuels an episode, or a small plot line.
Gee, I do wonder if Madara's little moment of stupidity fueled anything... oh right, the final villain battle and his defeat. Gee, I do wonder how Villain Ball applies to this, but hey, if KYF says it doesn't fit, who am I to question, amirite?

Quote:
This applies even less then the previous because madara does not do something to the enemy that ends up powering them up and screwing himself.
HE SET HIMSELF UP TO LOSE, YOU ILLITERATE APE. How the fuck isn't that helping the enemy and screwing himself?

Quote:
Lol, and madara did not and in all likelihood will not end up killing himself trying to do something to naruto or sasuke... WTF...
There aren't enough facepalms in the world to compensate for this kind of absence of a brain. KYF, what exactly about irony is eluding you? Or are you once again cherry picking the examples given instead of actually comprehending the trope?
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Old 11-30-2013, 10:58 PM   #38
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Re: Naruto 656

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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Correction. Naruto didn't have any family to teach him sealing techniques. Hashirama spent years with an Uzumaki. Minato spent years with an Uzumaki. Naruto spent years alone. Major difference there.



...you are aware that the crap pinning Madara down is a seal, right? It's just not permanent.
I just said this whole thing out loud and scrolled down to see you say everything I just said.

I was actually telling my brother how much of a fucking stupid argument KYF made. Fucking
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:39 PM   #39
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Re: Naruto 656

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Edo madara getting far more powerful, thus gaining a far more powerful preta paths power, Hell realms power to heal any amount of damage and bring back the dead, susanoo 1-4 and hashirama's advanced healing makes his living self> a weaker preta path power, susanoo 1-4 and instant healing that can still be bypassed by Yin/Yang jutsu, regular sealing, Izanami, ect....

Your ignoring the advantages that the increased power that madara likely has now does for his other abilities to increase his defense far beyond what edo version could do.

Hell realms power alone=instant regeneration so losing one of the same abilities to gain more power is not weakening.

And actually posting evidence that you predicted that Madara would be brought back with Gedo rinne tensai by Obito, but become stronger as a living being would be the ONLY accurate prediction because that is what happened... But, in order to delude yourselves that you were right, you act like madara being revived made him weaker despite his beyond V1 Juubito level of brute strength and already having some many healing abilities with hashirama's auto-healing+hell realms healing and dead reviving power...
I don't need to post evidence - Obito and Madara's plan all along was to use Gedo to resurrect him. They say so in the endless Obito flashback. Sure, there were double crosses and the whole juubi jink thing but even still, it always was a plan that was stated and yada yada Chekhov's Gun. If you didn't suspect Madara was going to shed the Edo Form, I don't know what to say. That's the only prediction I was talking about. I forget you seem to think only if every detail is right do we have an accurate prediction.

Yes, the edos have a big disadvantage of the sealing but only through Kishi's lame ass writing did it manifest itself. What killed the Third to defeat was pretty well handled seemlessly by numerous ninja now. It's weakass.

In any case, the fact that Madara is mortal means he can be defeated. The five kage were helpless against the edo version so if he's now uber powerful above that the only weakness is that he's mortal. It pretty much writes itself that way whether you want to believe it or not. The only thing that was stopping the edos was the Juubi magic of Obito and sealing. A mortal man can die by a single blade. It's a far greater weakness even if he has more power. That's all I'm saying.

But as an extra, why do we assume he has sage/juubi powers? Wasn't the whole point of the tug of war to remove the Bijuu from Obito? I mean, Madara already had rinnegan so the paths should have been open to him already... so why do we think he has the juubi now too?
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Old 12-02-2013, 12:08 AM   #40
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Re: Naruto 656

This whole entire chapter was just pure garbage.

1. Hashirama waiting for the alliance to seal Madara.
2. Minato standing there like Sakura.
3. Obito lives since he still has the Gedo sealed into him.

And last but not least.

Madara becomes mortal where possibly Tsuande or Lee can destroy him.

Fail chapter.
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Old 12-02-2013, 01:59 AM   #41
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Re: Naruto 656

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but an Edo Tensei doesn't have unlimited chakra, considering Minato actually ran out of chakra in between. Now I know his standing has plummeted considerably post his temporary revival from the Death God's belly, but this is still an inconsistency, considering Madara has unlimited chakra and Minato couldn't even perform a FTG in between since he was left with no chakra, when asked by Tobirama.

Which one is it? Plot trap for a character reduced to crap? Or just plain inconvenience? Considering both are quintessential Kishi, we might never know...
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:49 AM   #42
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Re: Naruto 656

I've never seen so much waste in one character. Every chapter Kishi prolonged Obito's presence was an affront to us, good riddance. Honestly, what is Madara's deal anyway? It seems Madara does what he wants just because, no matter how idiotic or counterproductive it is. I suppose that's what we get when Kishi creates an omnipotent foe with no real agenda.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:00 AM   #43
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Re: Naruto 656

KYF, I just have to ask. And, I'm being sincere here. Not a snarky bastard or one full of condescension. But the way you're talking about Madara...do you think he's going to win?
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Old 12-02-2013, 08:22 AM   #44
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Re: Naruto 656

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Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but an Edo Tensei doesn't have unlimited chakra, considering Minato actually ran out of chakra in between. Now I know his standing has plummeted considerably post his temporary revival from the Death God's belly, but this is still an inconsistency, considering Madara has unlimited chakra and Minato couldn't even perform a FTG in between since he was left with no chakra, when asked by Tobirama.

Which one is it? Plot trap for a character reduced to crap? Or just plain inconvenience? Considering both are quintessential Kishi, we might never know...
I figured it unliminted because they could regenerate and never die. So while there may be chakra costs, it would never get to the point of collapse, coma or death. Essentially, as long as they weren't sealed, they could take damage until recovered chakra and do everything again while their mortal opponents would exhaust themselves.

However, that Minato couldn't do a specific jutsu at a specific moment is strickly plot driven circumstances, more like that not..
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Old 12-02-2013, 01:25 PM   #45
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Re: Naruto 656

Tobito using Jesus Jutsu had to happen eventually, it was clear ever since the point he was revealed to be Obito so I don't wonder about this the only thing I didn't thought of is that Black Zetsu, aka Madara intervenes. But if he hadn't it would have been kind of pointless at this point since Madara had killed a load of them again before he falls. However, Madara being alive only means he can be killed now although having Rinne'gan allows him to use Izanami and Izanagi infinitely. Let's see how the Alliance manages to get rid of him.
I have the slight feeling now will be the time that Naruto and/or Sasuke will awake the Rinne'gan as well. We'll see about it sometime next year.
__________________
It's only human to contradict yourself.

The best secret is a secret no one knows and no one cares for.

As I wander in the Darkness, I feel Strong
As I wander in the Darkness, I see Power
As I wander in the Darkness, I take the Might
As I wander in the Darkness, I loose my Sight
As I wander in the Darkness, I fuse with it
As I wandered in the Darkness, I became it
And all what is left is only deeper Darkness.


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Last edited by Freakout; 12-02-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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