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Old 08-11-2006, 02:49 AM   #46
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

ima believer of the gov. hiding things,so i believe the loose change video
even though i cant believe people still speak of this
this video is pretty old

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Old 08-15-2006, 03:10 AM   #47
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

the US governement and the CIA, made the conspiracy, in order to invade the world in the name of "war against terrorist" and "in search for Oil" they made it as if they were attacked, as a result, they US army is controlling the Oil in Afganistan, Iraq, and they want to join Iran with them for other reasons, also they are interfering with korea coz they want to play a new base for them.
if you compare what the America has lost in these 9/11 attack and the power she gained you'll see.
how many country does the America has military forces in it, Pacific Oxean, Atlantic Ocean, Israel (coz it is an extinstion of America) Iraq, Afghanistan, the Arabian Gulf, Japan.......
it is clear now I guess
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:17 AM   #48
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makoto_Duke_War_IV View Post
How dare you say that US planed an attack on their own fucking country! You should ashamed of yourself for even thinking that.

I am truly disgusted.
#1-Going out on a limb here, but guessing your a Bush person.
#2-The attacks were an excuse for us to invade somewhare so Bush would be in office again.
#3-I hate Bush.
#4-This is the second time republicans have done something immoral to get someone into office, but this one actually worked and was a lot worse.
#5-Bush Sucks.
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:18 AM   #49
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmi2004 View Post
the US governement and the CIA, made the conspiracy, in order to invade the world in the name of "war against terrorist" and "in search for Oil" they made it as if they were attacked, as a result, they US army is controlling the Oil in Afganistan, Iraq, and they want to join Iran with them for other reasons, also they are interfering with korea coz they want to play a new base for them.
if you compare what the America has lost in these 9/11 attack and the power she gained you'll see.
how many country does the America has military forces in it, Pacific Oxean, Atlantic Ocean, Israel (coz it is an extinstion of America) Iraq, Afghanistan, the Arabian Gulf, Japan.......
it is clear now I guess
YAH!(i know, 2 posts from same person touching, get over it)
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Old 08-21-2006, 05:10 AM   #50
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

Bush destroy World Trade because to get oil in the middle East. Killin it own people for oil, Bush is a sucker. I believe Bush is just a puppet. Someone is controlling all this from behind.
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Old 09-10-2006, 05:03 AM   #51
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

I am not convinced that Bush was behind all of this. Perhaps the minor explosions were a gas buildup in the pipes or something flammable. That the planes caused? What if the terrorists were actually behind all of it. But then again, I wouldn't be surprised if Bush was behind it. However, if Bush was, and that was an excuse to invade other lands, then he did a pretty poor job at it. If he was going to invade other places, why did he only choose one place of Islam. And why Iraq and Afghanistan. Why not Saudi Arabia or some other place? If Bush was actually behind this, he would have everything planned already. Where to invade, how many troops will be needed, who will be the scapegoat and how to capture him. Wouldn't Bush rather take someplace permanently instead of occupying a place and losing men by doing it? The question is, what is Bush's true motive? What's he getting at? How is he going to benefit by sitting his troops duck in the middle of nowhere? Unless if he is in a larger plot. If he is a puppet under a larger orginazation, then that orginazation that hired him might be staging other attacks as well. Remember that failed attempt with the planes going from England? All those convicted people were born and raised in England. It probably isn't by Islam. It's by an international orginazation planning to start WW3 or even worse, pure annhilation of the human race and the coming armageddon. In this case, if all the top U.S. orginizations are doing this, then who will find out the cause for this? If all I am saying is true, then it's a brilliant setup. That orginazation is making Islam the scapegoat and turning everything into a global issue. But the question remains unanswered. What are these people trying to achieve. Are they planning world domination using corrupted government means? How many people know about this and support it? Who is good? And who is bad? If this is the case, then what will we do to prevent it?

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Old 09-10-2006, 11:09 AM   #52
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

/wrist

Seriously, conspiricy theories are fun and all, but this one is just so ridiculously idiotic that it's not even funny.

Pro-crazy 9/11 conspiricy believer guys: Give one, just one, intelligent reason to believe that the US government or Bush would have to attack the twin towers. So far all I've seen is:

-To get teh Oilz!!1

Yeah, because we're swimming in oil now. That's why the price of it is higher than ever, right? Because of all that oil surplus. What kind of pattern of thought are you guys using? Middle east has oil => We attack somewhere in the middle east => OMG teh bl4ck G0ldz!!11???? Seriously, what the hell guys? Please, show how you came to the assumption that anyone is getting free oil out of this deal.

-So they can wage the "war on terror"

Why? What purpose would it serve to hijack our own planes, crash them into our own buildings, then convince bin laden to release a tape saying his organization was responsible so we can attack his country? Also, note how dumb that sounds.

-So that Bush can finish what his papa started-taking down Saddam!

Funny, considering we didn't even attack Iraq in responce to the 9/11 attacks, so what was the point of us blowing up our own buildings with planes full of our own people again? >.>

-For teh powar!

The US is the most powerful country in the world, we've got naval and army bases all throughout the world. So again, why would we go through all this trouble just to add a few military bases in Iraq and Afganistan? Just a time saver? Again, what logic are you using here?

So here's where we stand so far:

Some of you guys are saying that the US is responsible for that 9/11 terrorist attacks for absolutely no logical reason what-so-ever, even though there is a extremeist terrorist organization out there taking full credit for it, has the motives to do it, has been responsible for wonton acts of violence in the past, and had the finacial backing to supply training for such an operation. I really think Bin Laden could headbutt some of you in the face and you'd be blaming the US for it, considering the headbutt of common sense to your collective faces didn't seem to faze you. >.>
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Old 09-11-2006, 06:01 AM   #53
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

Hey man, I'm told you I'm not convinced that the U.S. planned a series of attacks on it's own buildings. It's stupid if you ask me. They should have picked a better political target. However, what you don't know is whether Bush and his top aides is doing this for another purpose. If this is true, Bush is a puppet under something larger. Sure it sounds ludicrous, laugh. But I'm just suggesting something that might be true. Could Bush and the top government staff be frauds planning to cause civil unrest and globally as well? In this case, this will create tension. WW1 and WW2 started almost the same way. Buildup of tension between all countries. Acts by other countries to intimidate and begin wars with others. But now it's not against other countries. It's terror against the world. If Bush is actually a fraud and is a puppet for something larger, then it could mean trouble. If all these events like 9/11 are a distraction for something larger, then that could be the case. There is also the possibility that this is all a set up and Bush and Osama Bin Ladin and others might be working under that orginazation to create global tension. I'm not saying this is real. But it is real iffy you know what I mean? Bush might not be doing this for himself but as a tool for something larger and more sinister seriously.

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Old 09-11-2006, 11:14 AM   #54
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

Quote:
Hey man, I'm told you I'm not convinced that the U.S. planned a series of attacks on it's own buildings. It's stupid if you ask me. They should have picked a better political target. However, what you don't know is whether Bush and his top aides is doing this for another purpose. If this is true, Bush is a puppet under something larger. Sure it sounds ludicrous, laugh. But I'm just suggesting something that might be true. Could Bush and the top government staff be frauds planning to cause civil unrest and globally as well? In this case, this will create tension. WW1 and WW2 started almost the same way. Buildup of tension between all countries. Acts by other countries to intimidate and begin wars with others. But now it's not against other countries. It's terror against the world. If Bush is actually a fraud and is a puppet for something larger, then it could mean trouble. If all these events like 9/11 are a distraction for something larger, then that could be the case. There is also the possibility that this is all a set up and Bush and Osama Bin Ladin and others might be working under that orginazation to create global tension. I'm not saying this is real. But it is real iffy you know what I mean? Bush might not be doing this for himself but as a tool for something larger and more sinister seriously.
And the evidence which supports this 'theory' is where? I mean, you must have at least a bit of evidence that lead you to this belief, right? Or at the very least, you came to think this could be a possible scenario by using some sound reasoning, correct?

If not, then I want to add some things to jazz it up, since we're just pulling things out our asses here. How about we change the "ultra powerful evil organization hell bent on starting the next world war for some unknown reason" to just "Aliens from the planet Zibot" and let's just say they're pissed because of us shooting down one of their ships and hauling it off to Area 51. They're trying to start the next world war to thin or numbers down a bit before they attack, and Bush is just a tool they're controlling through a device they impanted in his anus. (Which explains the poor use of the english language and inability to debate intelligently, OMG!) These aliens are actually all mentally retarded though, so instead of instigating a war between the superpowers of the world, they just focus on some third-world-countries in the middle east. Wow, making up stories is fun! >.>;

Come on, at least the morons who think the government is responsible for the 9/11 attacks made a video. ^^;
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:20 PM   #55
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
And the evidence which supports this 'theory' is where? I mean, you must have at least a bit of evidence that lead you to this belief, right? Or at the very least, you came to think this could be a possible scenario by using some sound reasoning, correct?

If not, then I want to add some things to jazz it up, since we're just pulling things out our asses here. How about we change the "ultra powerful evil organization hell bent on starting the next world war for some unknown reason" to just "Aliens from the planet Zibot" and let's just say they're pissed because of us shooting down one of their ships and hauling it off to Area 51. They're trying to start the next world war to thin or numbers down a bit before they attack, and Bush is just a tool they're controlling through a device they impanted in his anus. (Which explains the poor use of the english language and inability to debate intelligently, OMG!) These aliens are actually all mentally retarded though, so instead of instigating a war between the superpowers of the world, they just focus on some third-world-countries in the middle east. Wow, making up stories is fun! >.>;

Come on, at least the morons who think the government is responsible for the 9/11 attacks made a video. ^^;


You're the man, ahaha, you completely shut him down.

But seriously No valid evidence has been given to show that 9/11 was gov doing, Plus IF the gov was behind the attacks how do you explain the plane in PA crashing, the goverment is MUCH better than that.

It's dissappointing to see all of these people so influenced by a video, so if i make a video and comeup with random stupid suggestions people will think i am right, we thats awsome.
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Old 09-12-2006, 09:42 PM   #56
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

^What plane in PA? You mean flight 93?

About the evidence supporting this conspiracy, most of it is based on suggestive situational circumstance. For example, in the beginning of the video, it outlined operation northwoods, created by Lyman Lemnitzer, joint cheif of staff at the time. It was a plan that suggested staging terrorist attacks, switching planes, etc, in order to have a reason to go to war with Cuba (this is 1962). The plan was rejected, though, and Lemnitzer was removed as the chief of staff by Kennedy. A document like this suggests that the government could possibly do the things suggested in later parts of the video. Another example, many eyewitnesses report explosions from within the twin towers before their collapse, and a few weeks before 9/11, drills were conducted in the twin towers and WT7 (the three buildings that happened to have collapsed) that included evacuating the building and the removal of bomb sniffing dogs from the buildings for "security reasons," ordered by Marvin Bush. This suggests that bombs could have been planted before hand and later detonated.

After 9/11, companies profited from insurance and put options. Later, Bush goes to war with terrorism, which makes more profit. Oil is stopped in Iraq, even more profit. As you can see, a valid reason for planning 9/11 is to make tons of money for everyone (except the middle to lower class).

However, evidence such as this isn't concrete. The most it should do is rouse suspicion. The facts are off just slightly from eyewitness reports, coincidences with financial things (insurance and put options prior to 9/11), and security in the towers adds fuel to the suspicion. Without concrete evidence, though, people must look at the video from an innocent until proven guilty standpoint. Also, the average person have a building structure's physics and intricate economics masters degree, so one should not jump to conclusions too quickly.

The video just makes me think "...eh? why's that?" It doesn't make me think "zomgbbq, i hate bush therefore i must jump to conclusions without concrete evidence and say he did it...!!1"


@optimus, Optimus Prime rules :P. But the points in the video were far from random stupid suggestions. I think they were well organized, and thought out (a little). It's not suprising that it can convince people who have a slight degree of gullibility. As for me, I want to look into the facts mentioned in the video and check it's accuracy before I jump to a conclusion.

@Miburo, mad props to the aliens who're racist against middle easterns :P. The conspiracy theorists that you're referring to are the extreme ones. Those are the ones that are quick to jump to any conclusion that sounds somewhat feasible, which is rather annoying. However, don't let the image of these theorists persuade you to automatically brush off any conspiracy theory. Because there's usually different versions of a conspiracy theory, varying from extreme to logical. And if you brush off the logical theories too quickly (not... sure if there are any anyway), then you're the same as the extremist conspiracy theorists who believe Dick Cheyney is an alien, as you both would be jumping to conclusions too quickly (although, brushing off a theory is much more logical than being super gullible).
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:38 PM   #57
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

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@Miburo, mad props to the aliens who're racist against middle easterns :P. The conspiracy theorists that you're referring to are the extreme ones. Those are the ones that are quick to jump to any conclusion that sounds somewhat feasible, which is rather annoying. However, don't let the image of these theorists persuade you to automatically brush off any conspiracy theory. Because there's usually different versions of a conspiracy theory, varying from extreme to logical. And if you brush off the logical theories too quickly (not... sure if there are any anyway), then you're the same as the extremist conspiracy theorists who believe Dick Cheyney is an alien, as you both would be jumping to conclusions too quickly (although, brushing off a theory is much more logical than being super gullible).
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the goverment hides details of what happened, and I know they're not saints. But in this particular scenario there's a much more logical alternative to "teh goverment did the 9-11 terrorist attacks." And it's that the terrorist did actually do it.

The "Loose Change" video his been debunked rather well already by numerous sources, I can post links in necessary, so I'm just going to ignore that digital chunk of stupidity for the moment.

There's still no intelligent motive for the American government to destroy it's own buildings and kill it's own people. You can say "to make an extremely small percentage of people richer" but that doesn't make much sense at all. There's plenty of other currupt ways to make money that doesn't involve killing thousands of your own people and making a world-wide display of it all, not to mention the fact that it would take a shitload of people to pull it off-all of which would have to keep their mouths shut about it. Let's not forget that an extremist terrorist organization who have both the means and the motives to do such a thing admitted to doing it....

And the cost of cleanup, reconstruction, improvements in security, and training probably offsets a lot of the money the goverment as a whole would've hoped to make. The war itself hasn't been very cheap either.

So I'm not just saying "Nah, that's stupid, the goverment wouldn't do that" without even thinking about it. I'm actually thinking it through using a bit of common sense and coming to the conclusion that this particular conspiracy is pretty stupid for what I would think to be obvious reasons.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:47 PM   #58
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the goverment hides details of what happened, and I know they're not saints. But in this particular scenario there's a much more logical alternative to "teh goverment did the 9-11 terrorist attacks." And it's that the terrorist did actually do it.
I despise you Miburo. You said what I was going to say.

Conspiracy theories, I think, are maintained by the lack of evidence as well as the presence of evidence. But this lack of evidence is wholesome and can be proven wrong to the point where it is illogical to think so without further proof.

I also do not think the government is perfect, but I do know that there are better alternatives then doing a highly complicated staged maneuver to secure bases of oil or riches. Killing your icons for tradings/economy (think about it World TRADE Center) AND travel (which is how America influences other countries btw) is simply foolish for a government to consider.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:54 PM   #59
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

Ah, yes. Good point. They could've made money other ways. Though, that's taking in the fact that I don't know how much money government leaders made off of 9/11 and it's related (and semi related... well not really) wars. All I can suggest is that the amount of money made was a damn good amount, an amount that couldn't be made as easily any other way. Can you provide an example where government leaders can make a very large profit out of something?

However, about your point that many people would have to keep their mouths shut, I don't think applies to this conspiracy theory. Bush (or, whoever) could just call up Bin Laden and say "crash some planes into some places," and the only people that need to keep their mouths shut are Bush and Bin Laden. The Loose Change video suggests that planes were switched, but I don't buy that. Why switch planes to save the small number of lives on the planes, just to smash said planes into some buildings, costing a larger number of lives (how many lives were lost exactly? I forget)? Therefore, without conducting something like this, we can factor out the bunch of FBI agents, officials, and civilians involved that would have to keep their mouths shut. As for the bombs in the twin towers, the video shows many eyewitnesses and reporters reporting explosions within the towers, so everyone's mouth isn't completely shut.

Also, the cost of reconstruction and etc comes out of the government's pocket, not the leaders of the government's pockets (auu, wtf, too many plurals), I believe. Politicians make money while the nation gains debt. People making money off of thousands of deaths sounds incredibly cold hearted, and it's unthinkable that many of our politicians would do such a thing. But, although improbable, it's still possible.


Oh, and I agree that "the terrorists did it" is much much more logical. I'm just saying that this theory is out there as well, and could maybe-possibly be the real explanation.


Ohx2, request to links of the debunking? And if I recall, there are debunkings of Popular Mechanics debunkings. I can get a link if you want.
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:44 PM   #60
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Re: The 9/11 Conspiracy

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I despise you Miburo. You said what I was going to say.

Conspiracy theories, I think, are maintained by the lack of evidence as well as the presence of evidence. But this lack of evidence is wholesome and can be proven wrong to the point where it is illogical to think so without further proof.

I also do not think the government is perfect, but I do know that there are better alternatives then doing a highly complicated staged maneuver to secure bases of oil or riches. Killing your icons for tradings/economy (think about it World TRADE Center) AND travel (which is how America influences other countries btw) is simply foolish for a government to consider.
Haha, sorry man. ; ;

Great points though, let's not forget the huge blow that America takes by showing a great deal of incompetence and lack of security by allowing their own planes to be captured and flown into their own buildings. I'm sure that left quite a few powerful people with some egg on their faces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja48
Ah, yes. Good point. They could've made money other ways. Though, that's taking in the fact that I don't know how much money government leaders made off of 9/11 and it's related (and semi related... well not really) wars. All I can suggest is that the amount of money made was a damn good amount, an amount that couldn't be made as easily any other way. Can you provide an example where government leaders can make a very large profit out of something?
Bribes, drug/weapon trafficking, money laundering, whatever. Whatever currupt politicians do to make money without drawing huge amounts of attention to themselves. Very unlike making a huge spectacle in front of the entire world of it. I'm sure they can make a "good amount" of money using a method above, or doing something similar. You'll have to specify the amount of money these government officals could have made through the 9/11 attacks, or atleast show they could have made any money at all on a individual basis.

Quote:
However, about your point that many people would have to keep their mouths shut, I don't think applies to this conspiracy theory. Bush (or, whoever) could just call up Bin Laden and say "crash some planes into some places," and the only people that need to keep their mouths shut are Bush and Bin Laden. The Loose Change video suggests that planes were switched, but I don't buy that. Why switch planes to save the small number of lives on the planes, just to smash said planes into some buildings, costing a larger number of lives (how many lives were lost exactly? I forget)? Therefore, without conducting something like this, we can factor out the bunch of FBI agents, officials, and civilians involved that would have to keep their mouths shut. As for the bombs in the twin towers, the video shows many eyewitnesses and reporters reporting explosions within the towers, so everyone's mouth isn't completely shut.
It would take a huge amount of people to set it up the Loose change way, I'm sure you wouldn't deny that. Your "Bush call up Bin Laden" way is still pretty silly, considering why would Bin Laden not mention Bush's involvement, let alone go along with him at all? Both have a lot to lose from the deal, and I doubt either one would trust each other to any reasonable degree. And you'd still have to show what motive Bush would have to do so.

Quote:
Also, the cost of reconstruction and etc comes out of the government's pocket, not the leaders of the government's pockets (auu, wtf, too many plurals), I believe. Politicians make money while the nation gains debt. People making money off of thousands of deaths sounds incredibly cold hearted, and it's unthinkable that many of our politicians would do such a thing. But, although improbable, it's still possible.
By using some basic philosophy I can show that you possibly don't even exist if I felt like it. Lots of things are possible, that doesn't make them completely ridiculous and stupid as hell, you know? Not to mention the risk vs. reward in this scenario makes the "a few un-named political leaders might have possibly hoped to gain a large amount of money from this deal" argument extremely unlikely, at best.
Quote:
Oh, and I agree that "the terrorists did it" is much much more logical. I'm just saying that this theory is out there as well, and could maybe-possibly be the real explanation.
Like I said, possible =/= probable. Hell, aliens could've done it. That doesn't change the fact that common sense alone smacks this conspiracy theory silly.

Quote:
Ohx2, request to links of the debunking? And if I recall, there are debunkings of Popular Mechanics debunkings. I can get a link if you want.
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

I'll admit the only one I actually bothered reading was half the PM one, I just grabbed these off the Maddox page to tell the truth. ^^;

If you're going to post a pro-conspiracy theory link, try to post one that actually has a non-retarded motive for the goverment doing it. I still haven't found one of those, though I haven't really been looking since it's painfully obvious that Al Qaeda was responsible. >.>;
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