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Old 12-11-2005, 12:45 AM   #1
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is gender nature or nurture

First: difference between sex and gender
Sex is the biological characteristics that distinguish male and female
Gender is the social characteristics (behaviors, attitudes, values)

Second: difference between nature and nurture
Nature is something that is coded in your body
Nurture is something that was tought and trained (effected by ur enviroment)

so is gender nature or nurture?
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Old 12-11-2005, 01:32 AM   #2
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sex is nature, and gender is nurture..

you said that sex came from biological reasons, while gender came from social...

and nature was stated as something that is encoded in ones' body,.. body lies on biological/scientific aspects...

nurture based from what you've posted, is something that's trained and affected by the environment,...isn't it that our social life has something to do with the environment?....
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Old 12-11-2005, 03:40 AM   #3
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yes but gender can also b nature...
e.g. males are naturally aggressive
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Old 12-11-2005, 03:42 AM   #4
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gender is nature you can never truly cange that
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Old 12-11-2005, 03:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*ChizurU千鶴*~
yes but gender can also b nature...
e.g. males are naturally aggressive
from ur example...are males naturally aggressive only because the other males around them are more aggressive? people's personalities are based on environment right? so if other males around the boy were aggressive...this boy would tend to grow up to become more agressive...it'd be a cycle....
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Old 12-11-2005, 04:23 AM   #6
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*sigh* FINALLY finished typing:

The drama began in 1963, when 7-month-old identical twin boys were taken to a doctor for a routine circumcision. The inept physician, who was using a heated needle, turned the electric current too high and accidentally burned off the penis of one of the boys. You can imagine the parents’ disbelief—and then their horror—as the truth sank in.

what can be done in a situation like this? The damage was irreversible. The parents were told that their boy could never have sexual relations. After months of soul-searching and tearful consultations with experts, the parents decided that their son should have a sex-change operation. When he was 22 months old, surgeons castrated the boy, using the skin to construct a vagina. The parents then gave the child a new name, Brenda, dressed him in frilly clothing, let his hair grow long, and began to treat him as a girl. Later, physicians gave Brenda female steroids to promote female pubertal growth.

At first, the results were extremely promising. When the twins were 4 years old, the mother said (remember the children are biologically identical), One thing that really amazes me is that she is so feminine. I’ve never seen a little girl so neat and tidy. …She likes for me to wipe her face. She doesn’t like to be dirty, and yet my son is quite different. I can’t wash his face for anything …she is very proud of herself, when she puts on a new dress, or I set her hair….she seems to be daintier.

About a year later, the mother described how their daughter imitated her while their son copied his father: I found that my son, he shoes very masculine things like a fireman or a policeman…he wanted to do what daddy does, work where daddy does, and carry a lunch kit….[my daughter] didn’t want any of those things. She wants to be a doctor or a teacher….But none of the things that she ever wanted to be were like policeman or a fireman, and that sort of thing never appealed to her.

If the matter were this clear-cut, we could use this case to conclude that gender is entirely up to nurture. Seldom are thins in life so simple, however, and a twist occurs in this story. Despite this promising start and her parents’ coaching, Brenda did not adapt well to femininity. She preferred to mimic her father shaving rather than her mother putting on makeup. She rejected dolls and insisted on urinating standing up. Classmates teased her and called her a “cavewoman” because she walked like a boy. At age 14, she was expelled from school for beating up a girl who teased her. Despite estrogen treatment, she was not attracted to boys, and at age 14, in despair over her inner turmoil, she was thinking of suicide. In a tearful confrontation, her father told her about the accident and her sex change.

“All of a sudden, everything clicked. For the first time things made sense, and I understood who and what I was,” the twin says of this revelation. David (his new name) then had male hormone shots and later surgery to partially reconstruct a penis. At age 25, he married a woman and adopted her children. There is an unfortunate end to this story. In 2004, David committed suicide.

Last edited by ~*ChizurU千鶴*~; 12-11-2005 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 12-11-2005, 02:30 PM   #7
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[Btw I tried posting this last night but my internet got screwed up and erased it sooo yah]

Gender is nature.

There was a story, about 2 twin boys. When they went to the doctor to get the skin of the heads of their penises chopped off [I forgot what this was called] the doctor accidentally chopped one of the twin's penis off. Now a psychologist found out, and decided to do a test, to see if it would still work if he brought up the boy with the chopped off penis up as a girl. [the boy of course got surgery so he'd look more like a girl] Now when the 'boy' was at puberty the mom gave him 'vitamines' full of female hormones, so he'd grow boobs and stuff.

They went to the psychologist regularly, and the psychologist did tests on them, and tried to get them to differentiate the differences between guys and girls. Apparently the psychologist did really wierd stuff like make the two boys undress and look at each other.

So the 'boy' was put in dresses and treated like a girl, and such, but he still felt incredibly different, he felt like he didn't fit in, he didn't feel right. And he tried to be a normal girl but he couldn't, he wanted to play with his brother's friends, and wanted to do 'guy' stuff.

So eventually he went like suicidal and crazy, so his mom finally told him he's actually supposed to be a guy. ANd he was really angry, because they did this stupid experiment on him. SO he took a gun and tried to kill the doctor that cut off his penis, he eventually decided against it though. He had himself get a fake penis made. And he lived the rest of the life as a guy.

Thus proving the psychologist wrong, on his test to see whether a guy can be brought up a girl and still be normal.

Our gender is embedded into our genetic code, and if not physcially, its still there mentally.

EDIT: [Oops sorry didn't realize you already posted this story o.o COOL!]
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Old 12-11-2005, 05:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*ChizurU千鶴*~
*sigh* FINALLY finished typing:

The drama began in 1963, when 7-month-old identical twin boys were taken to a doctor for a routine circumcision. The inept physician, who was using a heated needle, turned the electric current too high and accidentally burned off the penis of one of the boys. You can imagine the parents’ disbelief—and then their horror—as the truth sank in.

what can be done in a situation like this? The damage was irreversible. The parents were told that their boy could never have sexual relations. After months of soul-searching and tearful consultations with experts, the parents decided that their son should have a sex-change operation. When he was 22 months old, surgeons castrated the boy, using the skin to construct a vagina. The parents then gave the child a new name, Brenda, dressed him in frilly clothing, let his hair grow long, and began to treat him as a girl. Later, physicians gave Brenda female steroids to promote female pubertal growth.

At first, the results were extremely promising. When the twins were 4 years old, the mother said (remember the children are biologically identical), One thing that really amazes me is that she is so feminine. I’ve never seen a little girl so neat and tidy. …She likes for me to wipe her face. She doesn’t like to be dirty, and yet my son is quite different. I can’t wash his face for anything …she is very proud of herself, when she puts on a new dress, or I set her hair….she seems to be daintier.

About a year later, the mother described how their daughter imitated her while their son copied his father: I found that my son, he shoes very masculine things like a fireman or a policeman…he wanted to do what daddy does, work where daddy does, and carry a lunch kit….[my daughter] didn’t want any of those things. She wants to be a doctor or a teacher….But none of the things that she ever wanted to be were like policeman or a fireman, and that sort of thing never appealed to her.

If the matter were this clear-cut, we could use this case to conclude that gender is entirely up to nurture. Seldom are thins in life so simple, however, and a twist occurs in this story. Despite this promising start and her parents’ coaching, Brenda did not adapt well to femininity. She preferred to mimic her father shaving rather than her mother putting on makeup. She rejected dolls and insisted on urinating standing up. Classmates teased her and called her a “cavewoman” because she walked like a boy. At age 14, she was expelled from school for beating up a girl who teased her. Despite estrogen treatment, she was not attracted to boys, and at age 14, in despair over her inner turmoil, she was thinking of suicide. In a tearful confrontation, her father told her about the accident and her sex change.

“All of a sudden, everything clicked. For the first time things made sense, and I understood who and what I was,” the twin says of this revelation. David (his new name) then had male hormone shots and later surgery to partially reconstruct a penis. At age 25, he married a woman and adopted her children. There is an unfortunate end to this story. In 2004, David committed suicide.
That's the "John Joan" case, and you've got at least one thing wrong:
"One thing that really amazes me is that she is so feminine. I’ve never seen a little girl so neat and tidy. …She likes for me to wipe her face. She doesn’t like to be dirty, and yet my son is quite different. I can’t wash his face for anything …she is very proud of herself, when she puts on a new dress, or I set her hair….she seems to be daintier." His mother never said that, Dr. Money lied to make it look like his experiment was succesful.

Gender is NATURE. No question about it.
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Old 12-11-2005, 06:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*ChizurU千鶴*~
*sigh* FINALLY finished typing:

The drama began in 1963, when 7-month-old identical twin boys were taken to a doctor for a routine circumcision. The inept physician, who was using a heated needle, turned the electric current too high and accidentally burned off the penis of one of the boys. You can imagine the parents’ disbelief—and then their horror—as the truth sank in.

what can be done in a situation like this? The damage was irreversible. The parents were told that their boy could never have sexual relations. After months of soul-searching and tearful consultations with experts, the parents decided that their son should have a sex-change operation. When he was 22 months old, surgeons castrated the boy, using the skin to construct a vagina. The parents then gave the child a new name, Brenda, dressed him in frilly clothing, let his hair grow long, and began to treat him as a girl. Later, physicians gave Brenda female steroids to promote female pubertal growth.

At first, the results were extremely promising. When the twins were 4 years old, the mother said (remember the children are biologically identical), One thing that really amazes me is that she is so feminine. I’ve never seen a little girl so neat and tidy. …She likes for me to wipe her face. She doesn’t like to be dirty, and yet my son is quite different. I can’t wash his face for anything …she is very proud of herself, when she puts on a new dress, or I set her hair….she seems to be daintier.

About a year later, the mother described how their daughter imitated her while their son copied his father: I found that my son, he shoes very masculine things like a fireman or a policeman…he wanted to do what daddy does, work where daddy does, and carry a lunch kit….[my daughter] didn’t want any of those things. She wants to be a doctor or a teacher….But none of the things that she ever wanted to be were like policeman or a fireman, and that sort of thing never appealed to her.

If the matter were this clear-cut, we could use this case to conclude that gender is entirely up to nurture. Seldom are thins in life so simple, however, and a twist occurs in this story. Despite this promising start and her parents’ coaching, Brenda did not adapt well to femininity. She preferred to mimic her father shaving rather than her mother putting on makeup. She rejected dolls and insisted on urinating standing up. Classmates teased her and called her a “cavewoman” because she walked like a boy. At age 14, she was expelled from school for beating up a girl who teased her. Despite estrogen treatment, she was not attracted to boys, and at age 14, in despair over her inner turmoil, she was thinking of suicide. In a tearful confrontation, her father told her about the accident and her sex change.

“All of a sudden, everything clicked. For the first time things made sense, and I understood who and what I was,” the twin says of this revelation. David (his new name) then had male hormone shots and later surgery to partially reconstruct a penis. At age 25, he married a woman and adopted her children. There is an unfortunate end to this story. In 2004, David committed suicide.
*yawn* Been heard about that...

Anyway gender is nature
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Old 12-11-2005, 08:43 PM   #10
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its got both nature and nuture .
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:24 PM   #11
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Gender is purely nurture. Take tribes in Africa where being "masculine" is to be more stereotypically feminine in our own culture. The women there are more masculine by our standards. Any sociological text or psychological text you study will tell you that. There is no debate.
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:50 PM   #12
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your sex (i.e. male or female) is genetic, due to having x or y chromosome. however, gender is the role that societies place on one's sex that would identify a sex-male or female fit a specific gender role. first of all, there are other genetic "sexes" out there, as in xxy, xxyy, xxxy, and so on (some are not so uncommon), and in some tribes, there are third genders. people think that gender and your biological make-up go hand in hand, but that is a stereotypical societal "norm" that we either consciously or unconsciously place on a male or female. and the reason that men are more aggressive than women has roots in biology, because men have a natually higher level of testosterone (duh) and lower levels of seratonin which are both chemicals that are incharge of aggressiveness and other emotions associated with that. (FYI, one theory of why there are less women serial killers than men is because they natually have a higher level of seratonin - about 30 percent higher that men - so their aggressiveness is kept at a much lower level than men.....which is genetic and not gender associated, since gender is not genetic).

I can go more in-depth if u'd like, but i don't think u'd want to read it all
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Old 06-04-2007, 12:06 AM   #13
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Re: is gender nature or nurture

I took Sociology last semester and it was hell. So much of memorizing things, but I've learned a lot things including this topic. Gender is Nurture,and Sex is Nature. Our environment,neighbors,friends,parents,re latives,surroundings, will influence us and it is a very big part of us. example? Gender can change over time. how? Imagine you have a son, but you always work and your wife always take cares of your son and she always bring him to the beauty parlor most of the day/week because she works there. what you think your son's gender will be like later on after few years having the same routine?

We tend to like to avoid bringing back dead threads... However this one might spark up some good debate and you did add a bit of new information. I'll let it slide this time. ;-) ~DA

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Old 06-07-2007, 12:18 AM   #14
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Re: is gender nature or nurture

He'll be a metrosexual (by the old definition) and in touch with "his feminine side".

As I said a year and a half ago, gender is nature.

Here's a link to the Wikipedia page for "John Joan", whom I mentioned at the same time and who's real name is David Reimer.
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Old 06-12-2007, 03:14 PM   #15
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Re: is gender nature or nurture

I'll say that gender is nature all the way. It was meant for us to be.
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