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Old 01-15-2006, 02:18 AM   #136
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at least read the link i provided (the one you mistook) before doing it (i'll assume your the person you stated). making careless decisions like that often mess up our lives even more rather than make it orderly.
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Old 01-15-2006, 02:32 AM   #137
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o.o are you saying ur more of a 15 year old girl than I am? Because if so, please take center stage on the issue of what a 15 year old girl in desperation would do. Careless decisions come in close contact with anxiety and deteriorating sensibility. Which btw comes with being pregnant at 15 when you really don't want to be.

I can't read the site you posted, there's a bunch of links all over the place, the first page is just a page that leads into more pages. I don't know WHAT you want me to read.
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Old 01-15-2006, 02:48 AM   #138
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oh come on! why would you think that way? i'm not portraying something like i'm a better 15 year-old girl than you, because seriously i'm a 19 year-old male. see, what i've said about the making careless decisions thing does not apply only to this case. but for all things, we are created with our brain above our heart, which means it should rule no matter what. i've heard many cases of making careless decisions and ending up in deep regret, and that affects more our sanity than any other.

btw, in that link, it's ok if you're not gonna read. the links on the first page were actually to direct you to the different subtopics on the effects of abortion. some of them are the biological and mental effects of abortion. i suggest you read all under the section of effects on mental health.
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Old 01-15-2006, 02:59 AM   #139
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$10 is already much. we are lucky to earn it in a day. see, only a dollar here is worth risking our lives.
Wait... If $10 is too much money, then how the hell are you on the internet? The most basic package costs at least $9.99 (see $10) a month.


The thing is, if a woman gave herself an abortion and then called it accidental, there is no way to prove her wrong. "I fell down the stairs. Here's the bruises." Okay... Now what? Not much you can do to prove her wrong. At all. If people say that she had been talking about how she didn't want the child, then that still will never stand in a court of law. "I said I didn't want it but I never would abort a child! I'm a pro-lifer!" Ta da.

And here's another question: Who the hell keeps track of people being pregnant? The police are never going to notice if a woman is pregnant and gives herself an abortion. "Excuse me ma'am, but I noticed a few days ago that you were with child and suddenly you appear to not be pregnant any longer. I'm here to investigate." No dice. (Especially because it is not their jobs to do such a thing... Even more so in the US, where abortion is LEGAL.)
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Old 01-15-2006, 03:05 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kakashi1300
oh come on! why would you think that way? i'm not portraying something like i'm a better 15 year-old girl than you, because seriously i'm a 19 year-old male. see, what i've said about the making careless decisions thing does not apply only to this case. but for all things, we are created with our brain above our heart, which means it should rule no matter what. i've heard many cases of making careless decisions and ending up in deep regret, and that affects more our sanity than any other.

btw, in that link, it's ok if you're not gonna read. the links on the first page were actually to direct you to the different subtopics on the effects of abortion. some of them are the biological and mental effects of abortion. i suggest you read all under the section of effects on mental health.

Why do I think that way...wat? I don't think about how I think before I think. If we rule with our brains over our hearts, don't you think it's more logical to get an abortion and continue on with your life, without making the same mistake again. As opposed to not getting an abortion and possibly destroying your life, just becuase ur supposed to 'take responsibility' which apparently rules over taking responsibility about your future. I think you meant heart over brain -.-

A lot of things affect your mental health, it's not like having an abortion will indefinitely effect your mental health. And there's help for that anyways.
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Old 01-15-2006, 03:28 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by DarkAztek
Wait... If $10 is too much money, then how the hell are you on the internet? The most basic package costs at least $9.99 (see $10) a month.
lol, i'm on dial-up, and i buy prepaid card. one costs $2 for 25 hours. i spend two every month.

Quote:
The thing is, if a woman gave herself an abortion and then called it accidental, there is no way to prove her wrong. "I fell down the stairs. Here's the bruises." Okay... Now what? Not much you can do to prove her wrong. At all. If people say that she had been talking about how she didn't want the child, then that still will never stand in a court of law. "I said I didn't want it but I never would abort a child! I'm a pro-lifer!" Ta da.
ta da what? so you assume it's over? abortion is a "crime" that the simple statement of the one responsible will never get her out of this. the law on abortion here is being upheld that the matter like this cannot go uninvestigated. and, like i've said, a few would choose the stairs to end their babies. it's already you who said the safest method will be in the clinics. unluckily for them it's illegal here.

Quote:
And here's another question: Who the hell keeps track of people being pregnant? The police are never going to notice if a woman is pregnant and gives herself an abortion. "Excuse me ma'am, but I noticed a few days ago that you were with child and suddenly you appear to not be pregnant any longer. I'm here to investigate." No dice. (Especially because it is not their jobs to do such a thing... Even more so in the US, where abortion is LEGAL.)
a very lame question. did you even consider in the question how old the baby is already when the police noticed the mother's pregnancy? "i'm no longer pregnant because my child is already born. here he is! now get lost, a$$h0l3!" lol don't take this seriously. j/p

assuming you meant what you really meant, the police isn't stupid enough to do that. he must be careful because we have also libel case here. the fetus must truly be found so that an investigation can occur.

please, don't ask me questions like "how do we find out..." or "how do we know...", because i'm not an INVESTIGATOR. what's important is that intentional/induced abortions are illegal. they have ways to investigate on that.
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Old 01-15-2006, 03:33 AM   #142
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So =T how do you differentiate between a mother who actually did fall down the stairs accidentally and a mother who did it on purpose? Or are both going to be found 'disgusting'. You forget how simple the matter of falling down stairs is. Heck you could even say someone bumped into her at the top of the stairs which caused her to tumble down accidentally.
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Old 01-15-2006, 03:39 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by LightDreamer
Why do I think that way...wat? I don't think about how I think before I think.
lol i only asked you that because you assumed i'm acting a better 15 yr old girl than you. funny thought, if you ask me.

Quote:
If we rule with our brains over our hearts, don't you think it's more logical to get an abortion and continue on with your life, without making the same mistake again. As opposed to not getting an abortion and possibly destroying your life, just becuase ur supposed to 'take responsibility' which apparently rules over taking responsibility about your future. I think you meant heart over brain -.-

A lot of things affect your mental health, it's not like having an abortion will indefinitely effect your mental health. And there's help for that anyways.
seriously, if you let your brain rule over your heart you wouldn't attempt on letting yourself fall of the stairs to abort your child. and why would allowing the child to be born destroy your life? whereas if you allowed abortion, the effects which i'm talking about will also become your problem.

indeed, a lot of things affect our mental health. some of them are regret and conscience. don't deny you don't have it. well, the main problem is that conscience attacks us only after we had done the act and it cannot be undone. in that way we wouldn't know whether we have conscience or none. and about the help thing, i've rarely heard cases of a person recovering from insanity.

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Originally Posted by LightDreamer
So =T how do you differentiate between a mother who actually did fall down the stairs accidentally and a mother who did it on purpose? Or are both going to be found 'disgusting'. You forget how simple the matter of falling down stairs is. Heck you could even say someone bumped into her at the top of the stairs which caused her to tumble down accidentally.
well, if a mother was found to have fallen from the stairs everyone would presume it would be accidental, because neither of us here will think that anyone who is sane enough will never try to abort by intentionally falling from it. if proven to be intentional, she will go directly under mental examinations. if proven to be sane, she will suffer the penalties imposed on our penal laws.
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Old 01-15-2006, 12:15 PM   #144
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lol, i'm on dial-up, and i buy prepaid card. one costs $2 for 25 hours. i spend two every month.
And yet you said it was worth risking your life for ONE dollar. So yeah, something about you just doesn't add up.

Quote:
ta da what? so you assume it's over? abortion is a "crime" that the simple statement of the one responsible will never get her out of this. the law on abortion here is being upheld that the matter like this cannot go uninvestigated. and, like i've said, a few would choose the stairs to end their babies. it's already you who said the safest method will be in the clinics. unluckily for them it's illegal here.
1) It is not a crime here.

2) My point was that in your country, where abortion is not allowed, there is no way to prove if a woman gave herself an abortion on purpose or not. Hell, even an eye witness to a woman falling down stairs would have trouble saying whether she did it on purpose or not.

Quote:
a very lame question. did you even consider in the question how old the baby is already when the police noticed the mother's pregnancy? "i'm no longer pregnant because my child is already born. here he is! now get lost, a$$h0l3!" lol don't take this seriously. j/p

assuming you meant what you really meant, the police isn't stupid enough to do that. he must be careful because we have also libel case here. the fetus must truly be found so that an investigation can occur.

please, don't ask me questions like "how do we find out..." or "how do we know...", because i'm not an INVESTIGATOR. what's important is that intentional/induced abortions are illegal. they have ways to investigate on that.
It actually is a very good question. A) IF the police notice (and that is a big fuckin' IF) that a woman is pregnant and suddenly she is not, then all the woman has to say, with tears in her eyes, that she fell down really hard and the child was aborted. B) You cannot tell a woman is pregnant for the first few weeks by physically looking at her. C) There is NO WAY to prove that the fetus was not aborted by accident less than a woman getting caught in the act with a coat hanger.



Now back to the US: Despite the pleas of religious protestors (get your rosearies off my ovaries!), the fact of the matter is that since the fetus is not BORN yet, it is not a living person in the eyes of the law. Therefore, we can conclude that the mother has the right to do whatever she wishes.
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Old 01-15-2006, 01:44 PM   #145
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lol i only asked you that because you assumed i'm acting a better 15 yr old girl than you. funny thought, if you ask me.
Only because you acted like you understood the circumstance better than me.

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Originally Posted by kakashi1300
seriously, if you let your brain rule over your heart you wouldn't attempt on letting yourself fall of the stairs to abort your child. and why would allowing the child to be born destroy your life? whereas if you allowed abortion, the effects which i'm talking about will also become your problem.
I don't think it's 'just' your heart that freaks out when you find out you're pregnant. Like I said, you forget how simple falling down stairs is. I never said many flights of stairs, I just said stairs. If I really felt like it, I could probably make myself fall down stairs too, just for kicks! I said it could possibly destroy your life, if you're really well off and your parents don't mind nurturing you and taking care of you for the rest of your life perhaps it's not ruined. But you could be 15 years old! You would have to drop out of school at grade 9 or 10, there is no future for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kakashi1300
indeed, a lot of things affect our mental health. some of them are regret and conscience. don't deny you don't have it. well, the main problem is that conscience attacks us only after we had done the act and it cannot be undone. in that way we wouldn't know whether we have conscience or none. and about the help thing, i've rarely heard cases of a person recovering from insanity.
Not true, conscience can also stop you from doing something you'll regret later. You're going too into Macbeth, they killed real people to put them higher in rank. This is about keeping your life together. There may be cases where the girl has fallen in the state of mental health, but there's also a lot of girls who don't.

Uhh it's called depression [that's usually what the mothers go into] and yes many recover.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kakashi1300
well, if a mother was found to have fallen from the stairs everyone would presume it would be accidental, because neither of us here will think that anyone who is sane enough will never try to abort by intentionally falling from it. if proven to be intentional, she will go directly under mental examinations. if proven to be sane, she will suffer the penalties imposed on our penal laws.
=T are you saying I'm insane, becuase I did think of it in the first place. So how exactly would you get the consent of the mother to even start the investigation. Get a warrant, becuase this girl fell down the stairs! Like I said, if many people fell down the stairs, how would you know which one to investigate into? Would you do all of them? And how would it weigh on your 'conscience' if you sent an innocent clumsy person to jail?
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--
If you gave me the letters hrt you could give me [ea] to get h[ea]rt or [u] to get h[u]rt, but I'd rather have hurt than a heart without [u]
- GOD I love that. You could give me a hundred thousand million years and I wouldn't have thought of that.

--
All this time I've spent trying to change into someone you would love, I didn't notice you changed into someone I can't love anymore. Goodbye My King .

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Old 01-16-2006, 03:15 AM   #146
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And yet you said it was worth risking your life for ONE dollar. So yeah, something about you just doesn't add up.
lol, when did i ever say I'M prepared to risk my life for a dollar? but i'd tell you there are very few ones like me here. i'm speaking in general terms when i said that. i listen, read and watch the news everyday, you know.


Quote:
1) It is not a crime here.

2) My point was that in your country, where abortion is not allowed, there is no way to prove if a woman gave herself an abortion on purpose or not. Hell, even an eye witness to a woman falling down stairs would have trouble saying whether she did it on purpose or not.



It actually is a very good question. A) IF the police notice (and that is a big fuckin' IF) that a woman is pregnant and suddenly she is not, then all the woman has to say, with tears in her eyes, that she fell down really hard and the child was aborted. B) You cannot tell a woman is pregnant for the first few weeks by physically looking at her. C) There is NO WAY to prove that the fetus was not aborted by accident less than a woman getting caught in the act with a coat hanger.



Now back to the US: Despite the pleas of religious protestors (get your rosearies off my ovaries!), the fact of the matter is that since the fetus is not BORN yet, it is not a living person in the eyes of the law. Therefore, we can conclude that the mother has the right to do whatever she wishes.

only one response to all of this: you have no right to question how we uphold our laws here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LightDreamer
Only because you acted like you understood the circumstance better than me.
lol.


Quote:
I don't think it's 'just' your heart that freaks out when you find out you're pregnant. Like I said, you forget how simple falling down stairs is. I never said many flights of stairs, I just said stairs. If I really felt like it, I could probably make myself fall down stairs too, just for kicks! I said it could possibly destroy your life, if you're really well off and your parents don't mind nurturing you and taking care of you for the rest of your life perhaps it's not ruined. But you could be 15 years old! You would have to drop out of school at grade 9 or 10, there is no future for you.
ok, ok, i'm over with this. you seem to take our argument into an emotional warfare. there are many girls younger or older than you who don't think that way. as for parental relationships, things like underage pregnancy is not enough reason to banish their child. at least here.

Quote:
Not true, conscience can also stop you from doing something you'll regret later. You're going too into Macbeth, they killed real people to put them higher in rank. This is about keeping your life together. There may be cases where the girl has fallen in the state of mental health, but there's also a lot of girls who don't.

Uhh it's called depression [that's usually what the mothers go into] and yes many recover.
true, but in most cases it's the other way around. and to note, macbeth is fiction.



Quote:
=T are you saying I'm insane, becuase I did think of it in the first place. So how exactly would you get the consent of the mother to even start the investigation. Get a warrant, becuase this girl fell down the stairs! Like I said, if many people fell down the stairs, how would you know which one to investigate into? Would you do all of them? And how would it weigh on your 'conscience' if you sent an innocent clumsy person to jail?
i've said this already to darkaztek, never question how we uphold our laws here. as long as it's illegal, then that's it. period. no matter how i explain, you'll never understand.

@darkaztek: remember my point about the causal relation of STD and abortion? you might want to consider this: http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:4...relation&hl=en
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Old 01-16-2006, 11:49 AM   #147
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lol, when did i ever say I'M prepared to risk my life for a dollar? but i'd tell you there are very few ones like me here. i'm speaking in general terms when i said that. i listen, read and watch the news everyday, you know.
Great. You made your country out to look like it was extremely poor, but you are obviously not poor. That was a mistake on my part.

Quote:
only one response to all of this: you have no right to question how we uphold our laws here.
Telling me this is retarded. Come on, we're in the DEBATE forum. You've been questioning why the US has legal abortion, which is why you're scolding me now for questioning how you can keep abortion illegal.

So yeah, as long as you keep posting in here, I DO have a right to question your ways.


The study you posted is inherently flawed, seeing as how they create values that are not standard for the world, let alone the country being studied. It also assumes causation to be the same as correlation, which is extremely far from the truth. STD increase, according to the books that I've read, is due mainly to prostitution getting more and more rampant.

Another statistical flaw in the analysis of the correlation between STDs and abortions is the time frames that they used. The latest they go is to the 80s, despite the fact they are quoting and using research that was done more than 20 years after that. 30 years for the siph part. During the 70s and 80s, there was a large increase in the amount of people getting STDs. Don't believe me? Google it yourself.

STD counts have dropped considerably. Gonorhea and siphylus are not quite as prevelant today. Today's #1 STD is chylmidia, which is cureable and occurs mostly with really young kids who are too foolish to understand the importance of using a condom.

Even the conclusion is not a real conclusion. For you see, "While much attention has been focused on its effect with respect to the reduction in unwanted pregnancies, there has been little work that examines the consequences of the increase in sexual activity that likely followed legalization." Emphasis mine.

But finally, I have to throw out your little research on the grounds that the government does not care about STD increase or decrease. It has been PROVEN by studies that if prostitution were legalized, the STDs would go down by as much as 50% in the first 10 years. It is funny how we're not going to do that.
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Old 01-16-2006, 12:05 PM   #148
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lol.

ok, ok, i'm over with this. you seem to take our argument into an emotional warfare. there are many girls younger or older than you who don't think that way. as for parental relationships, things like underage pregnancy is not enough reason to banish their child. at least here.

true, but in most cases it's the other way around. and to note, macbeth is fiction.

i've said this already to darkaztek, never question how we uphold our laws here. as long as it's illegal, then that's it. period. no matter how i explain, you'll never understand.
The majority of 'girls' [not women] who will not freak out when they find out they're pregnant when they're not planning to be, is a lot less than the amount of girls who will.

I don't see a fetus as a child yet, so there.

No my conscience stops me from doing stupid things all the time!

Then why did Banquo's sons become kings?

But it's legal here, and you're still jabbering on and on about why abortion shouldn't be allowed, aren't you being hypocritical? If you're so content with obeying every single law ever made, then if you come here then is abortion suddenly okay? We're allowed to question whatever law we want, whether it applies to us or not.

What makes us think you understand us? I get it, you see a human as something as soon as sperm hits egg, I don't. It all depends on your perception, just becuase my perception doesn't match yours doesn't mean I 'don't understand'
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Last edited by LightDreamer; 01-16-2006 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 01-17-2006, 03:01 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAztek
Great. You made your country out to look like it was extremely poor, but you are obviously not poor. That was a mistake on my part.
oh yeah. every country, no matter how poor it is, still has rich, middleclass, and poor people. luckily i'm on the middleclass side.

Quote:
Telling me this is retarded. Come on, we're in the DEBATE forum. You've been questioning why the US has legal abortion, which is why you're scolding me now for questioning how you can keep abortion illegal.

So yeah, as long as you keep posting in here, I DO have a right to question your ways.
so what if i answer every query you have in mind? does it prove your point? i mean what point is there to prove if intentional abortions like in that case cannot be proven? (don't mistake me for saying that it can't really be proven). our laws are constructed following certain principles. and one of them is "what cannot be done directly cannot be also done indirectly". and i never questioned why it's legal in your country. did you forget? I DON'T CARE if it is.

now when i really want to answer your query the investigators might look into how the woman who got aborted in that case got pregnant. and of course her past. then the courts can just put all the events and facts constructively to arrive in a conclusion. still has some loopholes? of course, no law is ever perfect.

i'm still waiting for the biblical quote, you know.

and about the research thing, i just brought it to you so can see what you'll gonna say. i don't care if you squash it with facts that i don't if it's really true but still it makes sense to me. now if you think you're smarter than the researchers go conduct your own.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LightDreamer
The majority of 'girls' [not women] who will not freak out when they find out they're pregnant when they're not planning to be, is a lot less than the amount of girls who will.

I don't see a fetus as a child yet, so there.
did i ever say they will never freak out? ALL of them will. still, not enough to let themselves fall from the stairs. brain over heart. you say it's easy? well i don't. there's risk of getting your neck broken. i said you think of trying it when you're pregnant. huh?

Quote:
No my conscience stops me from doing stupid things all the time!
that's not conscience. that's common sense.


Quote:
Then why did Banquo's sons become kings?
i don't have any idea on who the hell they might be. i don't know macbeth. it has no relevance here because it's FICTION.

Quote:
But it's legal here, and you're still jabbering on and on about why abortion shouldn't be allowed, aren't you being hypocritical? If you're so content with obeying every single law ever made, then if you come here then is abortion suddenly okay? We're allowed to question whatever law we want, whether it applies to us or not.

What makes us think you understand us? I get it, you see a human as something as soon as sperm hits egg, I don't. It all depends on your perception, just becuase my perception doesn't match yours doesn't mean I 'don't understand'
is it hypocrisy? if ever i become a citizen in your country (which i would love to) then i have to follow every laws in your country. if ever i'll whine about your laws don't you think i can do something about it? it's just being practical. and personally i think your perception is very odd, considering how you could compare killing a fetus like killing a fly. i'm sorry to tell you this and not meant to offend you or something but i really felt sick when i thought about it.
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Last edited by kakashi1300; 01-17-2006 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 01-17-2006, 04:49 AM   #150
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you guys are really into different views.. well, these are few facts about abortion....
webster's dictionary
abortion n: the spontaneous or induced termination of pregnancy, accompanied by, resting in, or closely followed by deathof the embryo or fetus...

so if your'e saying, dark aztek, that i do not have any valuable information, eat dung.

embryo n: a living thing at its earliest stages of development

so if you are saying, dark aztek, that an embryo is not alive, eat shit....

same goes to..
fetus n: a developing human being in the uterus from usually 3 months afterpregnancy occurs to birth.

so again, if a fetus being aborted is not a human, well, your'e a cow.

you wouldnt know your'e pregnant unless you are 3 months pregnant. and in that 3 months, a baby is already a fetus. and a fetus is a human. what can you say about that?
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