Rockshmo

It creates so many problems too..

1. More Highschool/College dropouts
2. More "white trash" towns due to lack of income
3. Abandoned females left with a child
4. Unwanted, neglected children that grow up with serious issues
5. Higher taxes for more Financial Aid/Welfare programs
6. etc etc

The list goes on but I digress..

__________________

GAma_Oyabun

exactly so the problems not abortion but people having sex without protection

__________________


FC's
owner of the Village Brawl fc ^^-----LIKE RPGS??? join Village BRAWL FC>..the original rpg fc

member of the Fruits Basket Fc

Rockshmo

Even then accidents can happen.. then again I'm sure the parent of that child would be glad to give birth to him/her/it considering the lawsuit they'll most likely get a buttload of cash from.

__________________

DarkAztek

I already have won this debate over and over again, but I might as well point out one thing:

In every country in the world where proper sexual education is given to children about when they are hitting puberty, the amount of abortions and young pregnancies is SIGNIFICANTLY less. However, in America, where sexual education is foolishly scapegoated as being the cause of all of the young pregnancies, abortion rates and teen pregnancy rates are the highest. Face it: Just saying that abstinence is best is the worst possible answer.

If the Catholic Church really wanted to put a dent into the people who get abortions, then they should just sponser safe sex. However, because they make sex out to be a horrible thing that should only occur when you want to procreate, they cause sex to become a taboo that is wanted more than anything by hormone crazed teenagers.

__________________
[CENTER]
Nam Myōhō Renge Kyō[/CENTER]
[CENTER]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/HookerBodyShots/shark.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[center][b]Filler content[/b][/center]

LightDreamer

hum hum humm I'll make this quick, I have 5 exams to study for.

Your perception of stupid and insane = different than mine

When given the choice of giving birth to an unwanted baby, and falling down a couple of steps. I would probably choose falling down a couple of steps. The later doesn't not sound stupid considering the situation I am in [not being able to get an abortion in the first place.] It may not be the smartest choice in the world, but I would not say it is a stupid one nor an insane one. You obviously have never met an insane person. I dunno wat you're going on about conscience and common sense, but sure jabber on good fella!

My points aren't relevant? I'm sorry mr CONSCIENCE MUST RULE YOU!!! OH NOEESSS!!! boo. The entire point mostly I believe is the fact that you CANNOT prove when someone falls down the stairs on purpose or not. I REALLY doubt anyone would even take the time to take a case like that into consideration with an impossible to figure out case like that, unless you find some mind reader, becuase you need consent before you can take a lie detector test in the first place. And i may not know everything about the laws here and the way things work, but I'm not the one using them in a debate. =] tada.

Noo! I don't have that much time on my hands! I'm giddy with the absurd reason that you feel it necessary to take hits on my pride =P it's funny honest. You and you're 'well you're just copying DarkAztek so there xP' speech. Cute. Well you shouldn't assume that I do read all your posts, you should use the knowledge that you already have, which is knowledge that you know I'm reading the posts directed to myself. It's easy to answer two ppl at once on a forum...maybe not in real life. I'll help you figure out how me and darkaztek are different, I have a frilly girly signature thingy, and I talk with really immature words like thingy, and other nonsense.

You spelt...madamoiselle wrong...why would you use a french word on a person from Canada...when you don't speak the language. and it's not convienient ur making me read MORE GUH! x.X

Well so technically a baby would not endanger the mother's life. But it will endanger the mother's life...in terms of her future =] tada...

=] my theory on babies are that they stop being innocent as soon as their lip touches their mother's breast, becuase they become bias towards there mother. But that's just me. ANyways that's irrelevant. How many things have you killed that are innocent? What is your definition of innocent?

Very few things get my sympathy. Why should you expect an unborn fetus to recieve it? Why not the mother of the unborn fetus? Sorry, but I give her my sympathy.

It's ironic how you want to change my perception, when it's your perception that it's 'bad' in the first place. Don't touch my perception. It will bite you.

__________________
GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (now imagine that 100 billion decibels louder than your average fire truck alarm and you will get the summation of my feelings towards your childish bickering)

--
If you gave me the letters hrt you could give me [ea] to get h[ea]rt or [u] to get h[u]rt, but I'd rather have hurt than a heart without [u]
- GOD I love that. You could give me a hundred thousand million years and I wouldn't have thought of that.

--
All this time I've spent trying to change into someone you would love, I didn't notice you changed into someone I can't love anymore. Goodbye My King .

---

The adulation of strangers.

Azumi

well, it's the woman's fault that she got pregnant. why do you think women take abortion? because she's afraid. why is she afraid? because she know she did something wrong, that is, pre-marital sex. why is it wrong? because she and her partner aren't married. so that's it. a pregnent woman as young as 18 should take the consequences of having pre-marital sex. pre-marital sex is absolutely wrong, for according to the church, no two people cannot have sex without marriage. (but of course,if you have a religion as liberated as dark aztek's you wouldn't consider that)
scientifically, as what you guys are trying to say, the babies that are being aborted are not alive. ok fine.
but morally, the one your'e trying to terminate is a gift from God. it has life. we come from a fertilized egg, and it follows development until it reached the age of what we are now. in our country, most aborted babies are being thrown in garbage cans or toilet bowl. and they are all fetus! a fetus has already life! do you think that is fair for those unborn babies? conscience man, conscience. ppl are being hypocrite for accepting abortion because morality is being ignored. they just want to have an easy life, like having sex without any excuse, that's human selfishness. greediness for flesh satisfaction. and the one who's to endure and suffer the consequences is the baby. socially it is accepted, but morally, it is not. it is only human greediness and selfishness that accepts abortion.
you didn't... your'e just imagining you had won, but you didn't.

__________________

DarkAztek

A) Why is it the woman's fault? Did the man suddenly not have sex with her and she got emaculately pregnant?

B) Are people not allowed to be afraid any more? I suppose human emotions should hold no sway over decisions?

C) Pre-marital sex is not for you to say wrong. According to the US Supreme Court, sex is a private matter in which the government cannot interfere so long as it only involves people who are of the age of consent. To use that pre-marital sex is wrong only undermines your own argument.

D) She is dealing with the consequences in quite a mature manner by having an abortion. Who says is is running? That's pure speculation. She got pregnant and because she knows she is not capable of raising a child in any way, she has an abortion.

E) God. Oopes! You already lost your argument right there. Sorry, laws are not, and cannot be made in the United States based upon religious principles. We have declared ourself a secular country and have a separation of church and state to prove it.

And yeah, I have won. You have yet to prove any point I have made wrong. I will readily admit when I am proven wrong and I'm usually the first to say so. If you knew how to properly debate this topic, you could possibly win. However, you just keep screaming about morals and religion, which is political suicide when having a debate about current laws.

__________________
[CENTER]
Nam Myōhō Renge Kyō[/CENTER]
[CENTER]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/HookerBodyShots/shark.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[center][b]Filler content[/b][/center]

sheik

ADOPTION!!!!!!!!



If they can't do that then leave the baby on steps of a loving family instead of killing him with a hanger!

__________________

What happened to Typhoon_4434?
made by rasenganfox

typhoon_4434

that happens in stories Shiek, people will give their child to an adoption agency, then a loving family will adopt him/her.

sheik

Let the gay people adopt the children since they want children really bad.

__________________

What happened to Typhoon_4434?
made by rasenganfox

DarkAztek

Ah. Because of the adoption compromise, I find it very hard to argue against abortion. I wonder... If we can allow abortion within the first few weeks, would it then be okay? Any time after that, adoption can and should be used, eh? I don't see anyone debating against the Morning After Pill (which works for a long time after only the morning after).

__________________
[CENTER]
Nam Myōhō Renge Kyō[/CENTER]
[CENTER]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/HookerBodyShots/shark.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[center][b]Filler content[/b][/center]

kakashi1300

just want to defend myself, ok? first of all i'm not discussing morals. i was clearly illustrating the difference of conscience and common sense. and about the last part. LOL up to a million decibels. you have nothing to do with my conversation with others. we were discussing so many points that i need to defend every statement of mine. and no rule in this forum states that i have no right to quote everyone i like.

since someone is complaining about me, i'll just quote what's important. others are nonsense.

what differentiates negligent homicide from murder? that's right, the intention to kill. why do we have to differentiate them? because murder is subject to reclusion perpetua or in worst cases, death penalty, while in negligent homicide only a lighter sentence. how do we prove the intention to kill? impossible? the principles on how they investigate the matter must also apply here. seriously personal consent or intention is not that impossible to prove.

just like i thought, you would say that. you really are sooo naive. i'm talking about the danger to the PHYSICAL LIFE of the mother, and not futures or anything. haven't heard about ectopic pregnancy? if you do then you know what i mean.

the basis of that added exception is this:
"The State recognizes the sanctity of family life and shall protect and strengthen the family as a basic social institution. It shall equally protect the life of the mother and the life of the unborn from conception ..."

Article II, Section 12 of the 1987 Constitution of the Philippines



off-topic: and fyi i got the correct spelling of mademoiselle. and why i used that? just felt like it. even if i'm not french i have the right to say that, since no law prohibits me to do so. and you seem to got fired up after my cute little line "which hit your pride". sorry 'bout that. i don't know you're too sensitive.

@darkaztek: i really admire the way you defend your points, so i have here another one and let me see what you're gonna say(this link might also be interesting not just for darkaztek but to any other pro-choicers out there):http://www.morningafterpill.org/whendoes.htm the most interesting parts are the myth-facts part.

__________________
Hey Language Gringos Check This Out:
fsi-language-courses.com

DarkAztek

Now, I know that the morning after pill is an abortion in its earliest stages. I have no problem with it. Do you?

I agree with parts of that article, but it assumes quite a bit. Yeah, a person who is brain dead is a person genetically. However, because they cannot think and have to rely upon outer influences to keep it alive, I do not even consider it to exist. Until the fetus has the remotest of brain synapses, then it can be started to be called a human being. A human genetically is different than a human actually. Unfortunately, now we are getting into more of a philosophical debate.

The article comments on my thoughts on this... But it makes the mistake by saying brain "death." It is not a dying brain, it is a non-functioning brain, which IS no different than someone who is brain dead. Also, I know that it is not the actual brain when neurons are forming and starting to work. The brain is much more complex than that. But the article questions my logic asking if certain people who have some form of brain abnormality are only human beings and not human persons.

Yeah. They are only human beings. (Although I'm not sure I understand the diabetes, parapalygics, and physically disabled ones. This only applies for those who are completely incapable of sentience, such as people in a persistant vegetative state and the brain dead.) That is why I supported the Terri Schiavo case in allowing her to die. But I'd like to ask that we not go into that area to debate when talking about abortion.

__________________
[CENTER]
Nam Myōhō Renge Kyō[/CENTER]
[CENTER]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/HookerBodyShots/shark.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[center][b]Filler content[/b][/center]

kakashi1300

of course i know you know about the MAP. it just happens that the article is on a site on MAP. the only argument about it is that whether it's actually an abortion pill or a contraceptive. since this is an abortion thread, and you're a pro-abortion, then no argument about that.

i don't agree brain death is similar to being brain dead. brain death, according to that article, is a natural and continuous process as a person grows old. it is continuous degenaration, so it explains why persons in their old years are suffering from memory loss, etc. brain dead, on the other hand, is a condition reported to persons wherein their cerebrum is not functioning anymore. they have no rational attributes and sentience. anyway this is not the point.

and i don't think a distinction between human "persons" and human "beings" should be made. first of all do we distinguish between the two when making laws? that the state must only protect those who are categorized as human "persons" more than those who are considered only as human "beings"? i don't know about your laws but this is perfectly clear on our laws.

@all pro-choicers: i also want to hear your say on this, so you might also want to read that. here again is the link: http://www.morningafterpill.org/whendoes.htm

__________________
Hey Language Gringos Check This Out:
fsi-language-courses.com

DarkAztek

Oh no, no. You are misinterpreting me a bit. I did not say "brain death" = "brain dead." The article just uses brain death INSTEAD of brain dead to argue their point, which is not the same. It is not death because it is not dying. It is dead. Past tense. It does not exist. Just because it CAN exist is not a reason to keep it going in my own opinion. At least (I know I am a bit of a hypocrite in this sense) not in all cases.

Well shouldn't we distinguish when we make laws? It is, after all, an extremely important call to make. A person can tip onto either side of this debate depending upon their definition of a person and of a being. If the government can come up with a way to define each one well enough, then we can probably change the abortion laws in one way or another. Yes?


Unfortunately, there is another problem you have to deal with kakashi. Women's. Choice. She can decide what she thinks is best, for she IS the mother, after all, so she DOES get the final say. Despite what we know genetically, as we see the law currently, until the baby is born (a change of enviornment), it is just a part of her. She then gets to choose whether or not she wants it to remain a part of her.

__________________
[CENTER]
Nam Myōhō Renge Kyō[/CENTER]
[CENTER]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/HookerBodyShots/shark.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[center][b]Filler content[/b][/center]