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Old 01-09-2006, 01:37 PM   #76
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LoL do I really need to say more? The reason behind sex is not to procreate? You seem like a smart guy but this is not rocket science... You say that there are no set defined term/standard, yet for your arguments, you base it on PEOPLE'S CASES. Hypocritical don't you think?
I do not need to have sex to procreate. As society changes, so do standards. Sex is not just for procreation. That's what I said. Please take some time to read again what I wrote.

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The way I see it... the fetus is much like a caterpillar. If you loved butterflys could you see yourself killing them in their caterpillar stage? The fetus will become a child, much like a caterpillar will become a butterfly. It is one of the most beautiful things in life in my opinion. What irks is me that people take away that chance and the fetus never has the opportunity to ever go through that beauty.
And that is pure opinion. Others do not see it as such.

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I don't see how people can live with themselves knowing they killed something that could have been beautiful. It is a selfish act in my opinion.
*BUZZER* Don't fall into this trap again. The child could be something beautiful when it matures, but it has an equal chance of being something horrible.

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I simply called it morality for lack of a better word. I suppose Common Sence would work too, but, in essence, it is the basic philosophy that there are certian acts that for what ever reason, socity conditions people to reject. Theres no denying that, for the most part, you dont want to get up and randomly commit a felony for no reason. I agree though, somtimes killing is justified, but your missing my point. Through this entire argument, ive been saying the same thing...Whos life is more important? The mothers, or that of the child?
Name the certain acts that every person, let alone every society, in the world believes in. Careful, the hyperbole police are going to get you for that one.

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So what's your fucking point about bringing up me thread? I don't care about moral or fucking philosophy. Do I look like the type of person who gives a flying fuck that a unborn baby is just a lump of flesh? No I don't, but I still think that lump of flesh should have a life before they kill them self because the kids at school pick on the poor bastard and yes you do cut and paste. Man I can't tell you how many fuckers out there that sounds just like you.
What is the point? You were the one that said it was against certain morals to abort a fetus. I proved to you that there is no such thing as a common morality. And if you don't care what an unborn baby is, then why the hell are you in the abortion thread?

Cut and paste? Please show me what I cut and pasted and from where. I never plagarize. And again, you're being reported for flaming. Keep it in your pants if you cannot debate with me.

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Mr. Aztek you are being

::IGNORED::

Thank You and good night.

Oh, and if you qoute this post you should be beaten with a skined rabbit
So you are just taking the fancy route to saying that you have no way to counter my arguments. I understand.

Was QUOTING a person a copy and paste job? In a sense, yeah. I hit ctrl-c and then ctrl-v. But I QUOTED people and then replied with my own words. That is how you HAVE A DEBATE ON A FORUM. Otherwise, people get confused as to what you are responding to if you want to take things point by point.



Abortion is legal in the United States. Roe v. Wade. People have the right to have sex however they want in the privacy of their own homes so long as it takes place between consenting adult people. That has also been made into a law by the Supreme Court.

Azumi and Makoto: Okay. You're Catholic and find it immoral. Super. I'm not. I don't find it immoral. In fact, I find forcing a woman against her will to have a child to be completely unethical. Now this comes down to "he said / she said." You might argue that God is on your side. Oopes! You immediately lose on that battle in the secular United States.


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and yeah, nii-san, your'e definitely correct on that one. life is born after a minute or so of fertilization. so when u abort a baby inside u, u r a killer! (DAMN YOU!)
That is an incorrect assumption. What separates an apple from a person? Or, for argument's sake, let's just say a tree from a person. What separates the two organisms? Do they both have living cells? Yes. Which one is sentient? A person. A tree is not sentient in the least bit. Now let us get down to the nitty gritty of WHEN a person becomes sentient. Oh, that's right! About week 3 or 4 of pregnancy does electrical impulses appear in the brain and spinal cord, allowing for the most minor and insignificant forms of thought. That is sentience. Until that point, it is no different than cutting down a tree.

Right after an egg is fertilized, it is NO different than a cancerous cell in a person's body. Both grow and multiply. They are not separately sentient.
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Old 01-09-2006, 02:38 PM   #77
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Oh to clear it up for people I'm not Catholic of part of any major cluts/religions. I don't believe that unborn babies have souls. I don't like babies... no, I hate babies. I do believe people who get abortions are sluts and stupid whores. I do believe that you should give that lump of flesh that you carried around for nine months a chance of living be fore they become one of those emo pricks (though emo guys are cute.) and kill them selfs.
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Old 01-09-2006, 02:52 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Makoto_Duke_War_IV
Oh to clear it up for people I'm not Catholic of part of any major cluts/religions. I don't believe that unborn babies have souls. I don't like babies... no, I hate babies. I do believe people who get abortions are sluts and stupid whores. I do believe that you should give that lump of flesh that you carried around for nine months a chance of living be fore they become one of those emo pricks (though emo guys are cute.) and kill them selfs.
For your sake, I hope that there arent any women here who have had one and reads your post.

Technically your not flamming, but calm down, debating isnt a game to see who can scream obscenities the loudest, its about stating your opinion and, if possible, backing them up with facts.
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Old 01-09-2006, 03:00 PM   #79
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Technically your not flamming, but calm down, debating isnt a game to see who can scream obscenities the loudest, its about stating your opinion and, if possible, backing them up with facts.

in todays fucked up world it is.
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Old 01-09-2006, 04:29 PM   #80
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Name the certain acts that every person, let alone every society, in the world believes in. Careful, the hyperbole police are going to get you for that one.
Not EVERY Socity, but at least the ones we live in where abortions are avalable. Socity conditions people to not commit felonys. Killing is a felony, so essentally, so is abortion.
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Old 01-09-2006, 04:33 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by DarkAztek
I do not need to have sex to procreate. As society changes, so do standards. Sex is not just for procreation. That's what I said. Please take some time to read again what I wrote.



And that is pure opinion. Others do not see it as such.



*BUZZER* Don't fall into this trap again. The child could be something beautiful when it matures, but it has an equal chance of being something horrible.
You don't need to have sex to procreate? What other NATURAL way is there? Tell me please, I'd like to hear.

You're telling me that you REALLY have no feelings if you were to see an unborn baby die??

Is there REALLY that much of a difference between a child inside a womb and a child outside? How can you be okay to having something that is ALIVE and inside a womb killed but yet totally appalled when it is outside of the womb and killed. I could easily say a baby outside of a womb could also "grow up to be horrible", would you be appalled if i killed it?

Tell me, does the child inside the womb not feel just as it would outside the womb? Does it not have fingers and toes? Does it not have eyes? Does it not have the shape/body of one? Does it not suck it's thumb? Does it not have hair? Does it not move? Does it not deserve the same chance of life as everyone else?
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Old 01-09-2006, 09:58 PM   #82
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IMO don't put your twanger in a girl's jukebox till you'r ready to be a father. Go masturbate and be done with it. Once ready to be a father, go hump like a dog. A baby is a human no matter what stage of LIFE it is in. Whould it be right for me to kill a grandma of the age of 110 because she was gonna die or she is a burden to her family? Fuck no. That baby may be a burden, but think about it's feelings and don't make the decision to abort because it whould be too much trouble for you to raise it. People such as that are thoughtless and selfish.
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Old 01-09-2006, 10:33 PM   #83
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IMO don't put your twanger in a girl's jukebox till you'r ready to be a father. Go masturbate and be done with it. Once ready to be a father, go hump like a dog. A baby is a human no matter what stage of LIFE it is in.
these are the way life lessons that should be taught
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:26 AM   #84
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Not EVERY Socity, but at least the ones we live in where abortions are avalable. Socity conditions people to not commit felonys. Killing is a felony, so essentally, so is abortion.
Abortion is available in every country... It is available and often used in PRIMATE societies, so there is no way that humans are any differnet.

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You don't need to have sex to procreate? What other NATURAL way is there? Tell me please, I'd like to hear.
Masturbate into a girl's vagina. No penetration != sex.

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You're telling me that you REALLY have no feelings if you were to see an unborn baby die??
Where did I say that? Please quote me.

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Is there REALLY that much of a difference between a child inside a womb and a child outside? How can you be okay to having something that is ALIVE and inside a womb killed but yet totally appalled when it is outside of the womb and killed. I could easily say a baby outside of a womb could also "grow up to be horrible", would you be appalled if i killed it?
Yeah. There is a huge difference. One is sentient.

No, you couldn't. Because it goes both ways. It count be the next Ghandi as well as the next Hitler. I was just pointing out your logical fallacy.

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Tell me, does the child inside the womb not feel just as it would outside the womb? Does it not have fingers and toes? Does it not have eyes? Does it not have the shape/body of one? Does it not suck it's thumb? Does it not have hair? Does it not move? Does it not deserve the same chance of life as everyone else?
No, it cannot feel. That's impossible when you're not SENTIENT. No, it does NOT have fingers and toes. It does NOT have eyes. It does not even really have the shape of a human. It doesn't have a thumb to suck. It does not have hair. It is not really all muscle movement. It is not alive. Why? Because this is 3-4 weeks into a pregnancy maximum. Guess what that means! It is not SENTIENT.

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Whould it be right for me to kill a grandma of the age of 110 because she was gonna die or she is a burden to her family?
A grandmother is sentient. Unborn fetus... Not quite even near where the lowest form of sentience can be considered. Hm.

FreshGrease, you also need to consider that not every abortion is even because it is hard on the mother and/or father. Ever think it could be for the child's benefit?
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:36 AM   #85
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Its called adoption dude. lol
as for the last paragraph...HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHA! Thats fuckin jks
ahaha I'm sure it's hilarious. But you realize the girl has to be pregnant 9 months before she gives birth? 9 months is a long time. She'll have to drop out of school, she'll be ridiculed and other horrible things by horrible people. And then when she does give birth to the baby, there are high chances she'll become emotionally attached to the baby. So now what, now she's a teenage girl with a baby, with cut short education, and possibly no counter part to help her. Is she gonna live with her parents forever? Become a prostitute maybe. Because that's so much better than being given a second chance at life, and being successful. I doubt if she gets an abortion she'll make the same mistake of getting unwantedly pregnant again. And what of the baby of the prostitute? Well if social services find out, they'll prolly end up taking her now emotionally attached child, give it to a relative or something. But that poor child is going to be juggled around a lot, and wat are they gonna tell it when they grow up. Oh your mom got knocked up when she was about 15, gave birth to you, then disowned you. Yup, that would make me feel good too.

Getting an abortion is a little more discrete then wearing a lot of sweaters to cover up your new bulge, she'll be able to continue highschool, or whatever education she was getting, and if she wasn't getting one, well at least now she has the chance to restart that.

See you guy's keep saying that this baby could become something beautiful, well what about the mother? She could become something wonderful too, maybe an actor, maybe a singer, maybe she'll travel the world helping those less fortunate, like the kids in Africa. How much of a chance do you think she'll have now that she has a child? She's 15 years old, she's still got her whole life ahead of her too.
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:38 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by DarkAztek
Azumi and Makoto: Okay. You're Catholic and find it immoral. Super. I'm not. I don't find it immoral. In fact, I find forcing a woman against her will to have a child to be completely unethical. Now this comes down to "he said / she said." You might argue that God is on your side. Oopes! You immediately lose on that battle in the secular United States.




That is an incorrect assumption. What separates an apple from a person? Or, for argument's sake, let's just say a tree from a person. What separates the two organisms? Do they both have living cells? Yes. Which one is sentient? A person. A tree is not sentient in the least bit. Now let us get down to the nitty gritty of WHEN a person becomes sentient. Oh, that's right! About week 3 or 4 of pregnancy does electrical impulses appear in the brain and spinal cord, allowing for the most minor and insignificant forms of thought. That is sentience. Until that point, it is no different than cutting down a tree.

Right after an egg is fertilized, it is NO different than a cancerous cell in a person's body. Both grow and multiply. They are not separately sentient.
NOT IMMORAL? in what sense? will you be happy if your mother aborted you? will you say " I'm proud of you mama, papa, coz you made me and let me slipped on a toilet bowl.. Oh.. it's really nice down here!" HUH? Is it fair for the child in the mother's womb to let him die "defenseless" againsts his oaf of a mother? well, you may never know, the one you are killing is the future president of your country and might bring the fortune you sorely want to have in the future.

and btw, maybe you're talking about "miscarriage", that for sure is immoral, in the sense that the mother is "unconscious" of hers and her baby's condition.

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Abortion is legal in the United States. Roe v. Wade. People have the right to have sex however they want in the privacy of their own homes so long as it takes place between consenting adult people. That has also been made into a law by the Supreme Court.
that's bullshit.... sex is only done by married people who had plans for their family, on when to be pregnant, and when not to be pregnant. the problem is that the people in your place are so into S-E-X that even the morality of premarital sex is taken for granted...
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:49 AM   #87
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Think about it. Q&A

Q. If you are anti-abortion and your kid has a uncurable dease that will eat away at there body. Whould you get an abortion?

Me. Yes I would get an abortion I don't want my kid to grow up knowing nothing but pain. It would hurt that I no longer have my unborn child but it whould brake my heart to see them in pain every waking hour.

Q. So you want abortion to be banned but are you for the death penalty?

Me. Yes. I know i'm a hippocratic yadda yadda yadda.

Q. If you are for the death penalty, why do you want the death penalty?

Me. Because in my mind I beleive that if you killed and raped 20 young boys that you should be beheaded but they don't do that anymore *sigh*.

Q. You are for the death penalty but agianst abortion. Are they not the same?

Me.No they are not. The person who is going to die by hanging or whatever had a life of which they fucked up. A unborn baby however did not at least let that lump of flesh have a lfe even if they grow up to be an asshole. (like some one that has lots of enmies on this thread but I'm not going to say names.)
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Old 01-10-2006, 01:22 AM   #88
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NOT IMMORAL? in what sense? will you be happy if your mother aborted you? will you say " I'm proud of you mama, papa, coz you made me and let me slipped on a toilet bowl.. Oh.. it's really nice down here!" HUH? Is it fair for the child in the mother's womb to let him die "defenseless" againsts his oaf of a mother? well, you may never know, the one you are killing is the future president of your country and might bring the fortune you sorely want to have in the future.

and btw, maybe you're talking about "miscarriage", that for sure is immoral, in the sense that the mother is "unconscious" of hers and her baby's condition.
According to the teachings of Judaism, it is not taking a life. In fact, at one point in the OT, it says that a baby's soul enters it durings its first breath. Additionally, from my more scientific outlook that I have upon the world, I do not believe what biology tells me that it is not sentient until later on.

You are asking loaded questions that are fallacies. I have addressed all of them before. But keep making them, they don't prove your point.

No, I am not talking about just shocking the mother to abort the child. Taking 3 of the estrogen pills used as birth control and it will be aborted. Have you never heard of the multiple ways that people abort it? If they CHOOSE to give themselves a miscarriage, then that is an abortion... Or do you think that if abortions could be okay if we just pushed the mom down some stairs?

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that's bullshit.... sex is only done by married people who had plans for their family, on when to be pregnant, and when not to be pregnant. the problem is that the people in your place are so into S-E-X that even the morality of premarital sex is taken for granted...
That's opinion. The United States, as I have already cited, has (follow me here please) NO CONTROL OVER WHAT HAPPENS IN THE BEDROOM SO LONG AS IT IS BETWEEN CONSENTING ADULTS.

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No they are not. The person who is going to die by hanging or whatever had a life of which they fucked up. A unborn baby however did not at least let that lump of flesh have a lfe even if they grow up to be an asshole. (like some one that has lots of enmies on this thread but I'm not going to say names.)
Ah, then if you really believe that, then don't just say that you are against murdering fetuses. That is completely different from what you said here with THIS reasoning: The unborn child deserves a chance at living.

Okay... And what next? If the child has its chance and messes it up as well as all of the people around it, THEN it is okay to kill?

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(like some one that has lots of enmies on this thread but I'm not going to say names.)
*Giggle!* Whomever could you mean? Would you like some more tea? I have assam!
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Old 01-10-2006, 02:11 AM   #89
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You know there are many forms of abortion, such as Saline poisoning, that happen late in pregnacy, where the baby can feel, think, and move. It isnt that far gone from a born baby and is certanly sentient.

@ MDW
Exactly! A baby has committed no crimes. It doesnt deserve to be killed.
Thats what makes me NOT a hypocrite when i say death sentences for abortions, because sometimes a death is justified.
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Old 01-10-2006, 02:43 AM   #90
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You know there are many forms of abortion, such as Saline poisoning, that happen late in pregnacy, where the baby can feel, think, and move. It isnt that far gone from a born baby and is certanly sentient.

@ MDW
Exactly! A baby has committed no crimes. It doesnt deserve to be killed.
Thats what makes me NOT a hypocrite when i say death sentences for abortions, because sometimes a death is justified.
Please just call me Makoto.

Like I stated before I really don't babies but I do think they are weird and cute (like me) but I really don't think they should be cut up in to peaces before they can even hear their mothers voice.

When you get the chance watch NeoGeo's In The Womb.
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