You all knew it was comming... ABORTION - Page 8

Kyoko-_** · 01-13-2006, 04:21 AM

Everything about this thread is really disturbing... but I'll still write my opinion. This thread is not about us humans but about the immorality of aborting a baby human. It's just not right. And If a pregnant woman aborts her baby, she has some reasons. like for example... She can't afford to raise the baby. Or the baby, when it grows up and had a mind of its own, would probably be just too unfortunate because the family he/ she is born into is a poor one. The mother is just thinking of the baby's future. But it's still not right in choosing abortion as the only thing to do because the baby wouldn't have any future then, right?

I also have to add... the baby doesn't feel any pain. He/ she still can't use his/ her undeveloped brain yet. I know... coz my mom tried abortion when I was just in her womb. she was really sorry for what she did. you know what happened? i was born blind. The good thing was... the family I was born into wsn't a t all poor or really needy. She was just afraid of the anger that gramps might express. Good thing was when I was 10, I got my eyes transplanted. i can now see. the world was really beautiful. it was totally different when I was still blind. I was just really lucky...
Those babies that were killed... I'm really sorry for them...

I'm sorry to you, too, guyz!!! I got so sentimental about the topic...
Really sorry...
*sob*

kakashi1300 · 01-13-2006, 04:41 AM

well, i'm against abortion because (in no particular order) 1. it promotes careless sex, which might lead to widespread of STDs. i know, there are counter-measures, but are we sure that all of them are available in every society? at least without abortion, couples will still know there's still a word called committment. 2. as countless of people has already stated, i'm against it because of the future deprived out of the child. the child has just been a victim of careless choice. now is it just? 3. particularly in our country, and perhaps other countries, the availability of advanced methods of abortion is out of reach. the life of the mother will just be endangered because of false and unsanitized methods of abortion. i've heard many cases of death because of these careless choices. 4. i'm a religious person, and i observe morals. i believe abortion is a moral/religious issue. i'm against it because it is against my religion and the morals that i know.

are we debating if abortion should be allowed in the US? if so, then i'm lost. i know nothing about US laws. and they are different from our laws. one particular is that we do not promote divorce here.

sperm and egg cells are indeed potential lives. but unless those two meet, no issue occurs. because other than that (ex. menstruation) is beyond our control. that's ok if nature allows it because it really occurs naturally. but to make those two meet is within human control. the role of responsiblity now comes here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAztek

Masturbate into a girl's vagina. No penetration !=sex

funny. do you think pregnancy can occur with that?

«Artos» · 01-13-2006, 07:58 AM

There are NO good reasons other than rape to abort a baby, period. Cant support the baby? Adoption. Think the baby will have a bad future? Again adoption. Could die from giving birth? Those are the concequences of having underage sex.
Since when was this about weather it should be law in the US? I could give a shit weather its a law. The law has no say in somthing like this. I dont care if the LAW says its ok to abort a baby. Sentience begins early after conception. It can move, think, and for the most part has a fully working nervous system. It CAN feel pain, and it DOES think. Theres nothing sentient about it. As for all these pro-abortionists. What would you do in that situation?

master mazaki · 01-13-2006, 08:43 AM

i perosnnal think its wrong to abort at any stage of a pregnancy!

master mazaki · 01-13-2006, 08:44 AM

unless it were by rape!!!

master mazaki · 01-13-2006, 08:45 AM

it would be very wrong to bring a child into the world to find out that it was concived by a force entry

«Artos» · 01-13-2006, 09:03 AM

Use the EDIT button!

DarkAztek · 01-13-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

well, if your'e talking about human cows, i must have been wrong. human is an animal, yeah right, my mistake about that. but do you consider yourself animal? it is only science that says wer'e animals. it's because of evolution. but i dont believe in evolution, coz how the fuck did charles darwin knew that humans came from apes. was he an ape himself back then? but that's not the point of this thread. your'e only concern about laws of man, the laws of science. i did say a bit about science, but the morality of aborting the baby is my main point.

Yeah. We're animals. No need to glorify humans as some form of god like creatures like you seem to be doing. If you are going to disagree with evolution, you probably should do some research on it first. Try starting with Google.

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so you think without those, the baby is not considered human, right? as far as i know, the aborted child is about 3 months. that's the maximum period where symptoms of pregnancy occurs. how the hell will you abort a child less than a week or so? the baby usually aborted is about 3 months, so it has already the necessary organs. your'e talking about brains? do you think babies after birth could already send electric pulse on his brain? no. their senses are not yet developed after birth. it takes time. humans develop. that's what i'm trying to say.

Care to provide some statistics that prove this idea of yours? From all that you've written, I can tell that you are not a reliable source of information.

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1. it promotes careless sex, which might lead to widespread of STDs. i know, there are counter-measures, but are we sure that all of them are available in every society? at least without abortion, couples will still know there's still a word called committment. 2. as countless of people has already stated, i'm against it because of the future deprived out of the child. the child has just been a victim of careless choice. now is it just? 3. particularly in our country, and perhaps other countries, the availability of advanced methods of abortion is out of reach. the life of the mother will just be endangered because of false and unsanitized methods of abortion. i've heard many cases of death because of these careless choices. 4. i'm a religious person, and i observe morals. i believe abortion is a moral/religious issue. i'm against it because it is against my religion and the morals that i know.

1.) This is not your call. Sex is a private matter, as it has been ruled by the courts. Additionally, there is no proof that being able to have an abortion means that you are more likely to have careless sex.

2.) I worry about the future GIVEN to a child.

3.) No, that is only when an abortion is not done in a clinic. There are plenty of clinics across the US and in other parts of the world. It only becomes dangerous if a mother tries to take it into her own hands.

4.) You "observe morals." No, you follow the ethics set down by your religion. There is no standarized morals. But it is fine if you are against it because of your religion... But that must not be a determining factor when deciding whether or not abortion should be legal or not in the United States.

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funny. do you think pregnancy can occur with that?

Yeah. You can. People get pregnant when they have anal sex and the semen drips down into the vagina. People can get pregnant naturally in a number of ways other than vaginal penetration.

Artos: You seriously think if the mother's life were in danger, she must at least try to have the baby? So instead of one death, we get two. How is that more "moral" by your own beliefs?

«Artos» · 01-13-2006, 03:05 PM

More often then not, the mother dies AFTER birth. Babies life > Mothers, i think. A baby has a whole life ahead of it, while the mother may only have 20 - 30 years. Seems a selfish decision.

LightDreamer · 01-13-2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azumi149

my point is that two cells that united. that's conception. and what that loosing of cells every months for girls is menstruation. it's common and natural. and healthy.

Sex is also common, and natural, and very much healthy. In fact, so is death. except for the healthy part. If I met someone who was immortal, I'd probably be a little freaked out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by azumi149

well, i believe that's the consequences of premarital sex. abortion only becomes an option if premarital sex is done (if the girl is preggy)
sex is a gift from God. it is sacred. Not all ppl can produce their own baby. so we should give importance to that. babies are only given to you because you deserve it. that's your destiny. do you think God would be happy if He sees you cutting yourself with a knife to loose the baby? well, not. there's a reason behind that. because the girl commited herself to premarital sex, she had to pay its consequences, that is, to bear th child with her. no one told her to that (premarital sex), so she should face her problem.

Girl, there are way too many ppl having sex before marriage that your preaching is getting you no where. Sex is many things, sex is a stress reliever, sex is pleasure, sex is getting away from life, sex can also be a bond of love between two people. If sex is a gift from god, what are cramps and back aches? I'm sure those are gifts too. There are only few species on this planet earth that have pleasure when having sex, dolphins and monkeys are 2 of them. [I sorta think it's ironic how they come close to being as smart as us xD] Does god favour dolphins and monkeys? If sex is a gift, then god gives us a hell of a lot of other shit we don't need as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by azumi149

and do you think abortion is the perfect solution about that?
no. it may may get worst. Im 18, btw. abortion is only an option to reserve your pride. what's the problem if you got pregnant? ppl will understand. "your'e raped!" that is it. not "you are a whore"
and besides, it will haunt you for the rest of your life. what if aborting the child got you ill? what if it conplicated your health, and at the time you wanted a baby, you can never have anymore because you got ill from abortion?

Oh I see, you're gonna wear a shirt that says. "I'm not a whore, I got raped." It doesn't work that way, people can't read your mind. Unless you plan to lock yourself up in your room and never come out until there's a broadcast that specifically tells everyone you got raped so they 'don't' think you're a whore. Sorry girl, but if you had gotten raped at age 15 and had a child before your 16th birthday, people are going to think you're a whore. They're not giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Please, you don't think there is a possibility of complication when pregnant with a child? If so, you are daft. There's thousands of cases where the mother has died after giving birth to a new born baby. Personally, I don't really want children when I grow up, I suppose it comes from my background with 'family'. But even still, I doubt I'm the only one, soo...you aren't allowed to say 'it'll haunt me for the rest of my life' becuase...honestly, do you know me? AT ALL? not really!

Quote:

Originally Posted by azumi149

religion is to be considered here because wer'e talking about humans here. morality should one of the basis of our life. not just human laws.

o.O...of all the human's in the entire world, do you honestly think the majority of them are christian and see things your way? I'm just thinking randomly here, but of 5 of my friends, I'd say 1 of them believes in god. and if I asked her if she thinks it's okay to get an abortion, she'd probably say yes. and I believe this is do you think abortion is right yes or not and state your reason why, debate/thread. Not, after considering each and every religion do you think abortion is right. Just because religion plays a big part in your life, doesn't mean it has to play one in mine. Besides, even if morality is one of the basis of our life, doesn't mean my morality is the same as yours. perhaps I think it is 'immoral' to force a girl to be pregnant 9 months before pushing a football sized creature from her mouth sized uterus opening. She may or may not have psychological problems afterwards.

Makoto_Duke_War_IV · 01-13-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by master mazaki

i perosnnal think its wrong to abort at any stage of a pregnancy!

Quote:

unless it were by rape!

Quote:

it would be very wrong to bring a child into the world out that it was concived by a force entery

You do know that you could have put in to one post and not THREE!

And don't you think that's closed minded? Would you like it if your mom had aborted you because your father raped her? No you wouldn't so

STFU N00B!

DarkAztek · 01-13-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:

More often then not, the mother dies AFTER birth. Babies life > Mothers, i think. A baby has a whole life ahead of it, while the mother may only have 20 - 30 years. Seems a selfish decision.

Says who? First off, a mother can die months in advance before she gives birth. Secondly, who says that the baby's life is worth more than the child's life? The mother, during those times, could have children and could have as much as 70 years left to live. Who the hell are you to say that some woman's life does not matter?

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yes, it's natural. but you can have it daily, weekly, monthly or not one in ten years. you can or can't have it, depending on the circumsances. we consciously control it, thus, making us responsible for the circumstances it will bring. our bodily processes, on the other hand, cannot be undone regardless of the circumstances.

One can argue that conscious choices in life determine when we die... Maybe I shouldn't have gone on that bacon cheeseburger diet for five years, hmm?

The fact of the matter is that sex does not and should not have to lead to a child.

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@darkaz: i believe you said something about the OT stating it's right to have abortion. can you please give the book and verse so i'll have something to read?

If I had a good way to quickly look it up, I would give it to you right now. Give me a bit of time to try and find it. Deal?

kakashi1300 · 01-13-2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAztek

1.) This is not your call. Sex is a private matter, as it has been ruled by the courts. Additionally, there is no proof that being able to have an abortion means that you are more likely to have careless sex.

2.) I worry about the future GIVEN to a child.

3.) No, that is only when an abortion is not done in a clinic. There are plenty of clinics across the US and in other parts of the world. It only becomes dangerous if a mother tries to take it into her own hands.

4.) You "observe morals." No, you follow the ethics set down by your religion. There is no standarized morals. But it is fine if you are against it because of your religion... But that must not be a determining factor when deciding whether or not abortion should be legal or not in the United States.

1. that's in the US. things are different here. you must be careful especially if you're a male and not yet married to your partner, and her parents don't agree to your affair. chances are you'll be sued for rape, even with consent.

2. if you worry, i care.

3. yeah, but the main problem is that more abortions are done outside clinics, especially here. the services inside the clinic are still not affordable. the mother's life is put into more risk.

4. first of all, are we really debating whether or not it should be legal in the US? because hell, i don't care if it is. same thing with divorce. it's legal in your country and not in mine but i don't whine about it. i will care if abortion will become legal here. again, i will say i don't know your constitution nor any of your laws.

Quote:

Yeah. You can. People get pregnant when they have anal sex and the semen drips down into the vagina. People can get pregnant naturally in a number of ways other than vaginal penetration.

i don't disagree to the possibility. but the probabilty of having conception is greatly reduced, because the number of sperm cells are also reduced. why do you think some men care about sperm counts? because a certain number is required to achieve conception. i heard cases of conception without penetration, but that's very rare. i don't even know if it's true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightDreamer

Sex is also common, and natural, and very much healthy. In fact, so is death. except for the healthy part. If I met someone who was immortal, I'd probably be a little freaked out.

yes, it's natural. but you can have it daily, weekly, monthly or not one in ten years. you can or can't have it, depending on the circumsances. we consciously control it, thus, making us responsible for the circumstances it will bring. our bodily processes, on the other hand, cannot be undone regardless of the circumstances.

Quote:

o.O...of all the human's in the entire world, do you honestly think the majority of them are christian and see things your way? I'm just thinking randomly here, but of 5 of my friends, I'd say 1 of them believes in god. and if I asked her if she thinks it's okay to get an abortion, she'd probably say yes. and I believe this is do you think abortion is right yes or not and state your reason why, debate/thread. Not, after considering each and every religion do you think abortion is right. Just because religion plays a big part in your life, doesn't mean it has to play one in mine. Besides, even if morality is one of the basis of our life, doesn't mean my morality is the same as yours. perhaps I think it is 'immoral' to force a girl to be pregnant 9 months before pushing a football sized creature from her mouth sized uterus opening. She may or may not have psychological problems afterwards.

christianity is the most common and widespread religion, and roman catholicism is the most widespread denomination in christianity. combined with islam, who also consider abortion as a grave sin, i'll presume the majority is against it. i have hundreds of friends and all of them believe in God. i know this is not the issue. i just want to bring this one.

care for some facts? read this: http://www.abortionfacts.com/effects/effects.asp

@darkaz: i believe you said something about the OT stating it's right to have abortion. can you please give the book and verse so i'll have something to read? and also sorry for the post i deleted. this is actually the message i intended to post but i edited lots of mistakes of mine.

LightDreamer · 01-13-2006, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makoto_Duke_War_IV

You do know that you could have put in to one post and not THREE!

And don't you think that's closed minded? Would you like it if your mom had aborted you because your father raped her? No you wouldn't so

STFU N00B!

Uhh that's where you're wrong, I don't have a choice in the matter do I. But yes I rather would have been aborted if my dad was a rapist. YOu know why? Because my dad was an EFFING RAPIST. That's why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kakashi1300

yes, it's natural. but you can have it daily, weekly, monthly or not one in ten years. you can or can't have it, depending on the circumsances. we consciously control it, thus, making us responsible for the circumstances it will bring. our bodily processes, on the other hand, cannot be undone regardless of the circumstances.

Ahh you see that's where you're wrong. Science has brought us a long way you see. You can now have your ovaries removed, taking all chances of getting pregnant away, and thus removing the process of menstration. But you see, by doing this you ALSO take many chances of human life away, for you might have had 5 thousand children for all you know had you not had the procedure done. Abortion is immediately taking the life away. One is post pregnancy, one is before.

When someone has sex, [like I said before] it could be for many reasons, one for pleasure, or 2 becuase they want a child. Just becuase you have sex does not mean you do it because you want a child. The child could be the result of a torn condom or slipped condom. Therefore, in such a case you do not control the circumstances. When you can control every single factor affecting the result of pregnancy. Ranging from, sperm fertility, ovulation, to 100% for sure birth control, then MAYBE when you control for certain whether or not the girl gets pregnant, will I admit you're right. Becuase it's ALL UNDER CONTROL!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kakashi1300

christianity is the most common and widespread religion, and roman catholicism is the most widespread denomination in christianity. combined with islam, who also consider abortion as a grave sin, i'll presume the majority is against it. i have hundreds of friends and all of them believe in God. i know this is not the issue. i just want to bring this one.

care for some facts? read this: http://www.abortionfacts.com/effects/effects.asp

If christianity was sooo world wide spread, why is abortion even legal? Well?

Christianity is the most world wide spread religion. Agreed. My statement wasn't do you think christianity is dominant of the religions. It was, do you think the majority of people in the world think the way you do. My answer? No. Clearly shown by just the legalization of the process.

What was the site for? How does that in any way back up your statement? You were talking about religion and then you give me a site on what an abortion does to you. No thanks, I'm good.

DarkAztek · 01-13-2006, 10:21 PM

Quote:

1. that's in the US. things are different here. you must be careful especially if you're a male and not yet married to your partner, and her parents don't agree to your affair. chances are you'll be sued for rape, even with consent.

I don't care. I'm debating for the legality of abortion in the United States. My reason still stands.

Quote:

2. if you worry, i care.

I worry BECAUSE I care. I would never want my child to grow up in squalor and that is why my wife and I won't try to have a baby until we're well enough off to support it. However, you have no right to say that we cannot have sex. And should she get pregnant now and choose that she does not want a child yet, then it is completely within her rights not to have one for the reasons that we would not be able to support one quite yet.

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3. yeah, but the main problem is that more abortions are done outside clinics, especially here. the services inside the clinic are still not affordable. the mother's life is put into more risk.

Prove me wrong and show me where it says that more abortions occur outside of clinics than in them and then I might believe you. I've visited clinics and talked to the doctors before and I'm fairly sure that they are a good source of information. As for the price of an abortion? The first trimester (the time that most abortions occur) is about $200 or so. However, medical insurance in most states actually COVER abortion. Sorry. That's capitalism.

But guess what? There are also prescribed abortions that within the first week or two a mother can take... Probably later too. All the mother has to do is take enough estrogen pills. The morning after pill is actually an abortion. It pumps so much estrogen into the mother than the zygote is aborted. They are fairly cheap. If you don't have one, you can even just take four or so of the pills used for preventing menstruation in women.

Quote:

4. first of all, are we really debating whether or not it should be legal in the US? because hell, i don't care if it is. same thing with divorce. it's legal in your country and not in mine but i don't whine about it. i will care if abortion will become legal here. again, i will say i don't know your constitution nor any of your laws.

I am. I've said that. Multiple times in the past bunch of my posts.

(Divorce isn't legal in your country? Where are you from?)

As for the OT quote, see the post above yours. (Why did you delete your post and not just use the EDIT button?)

01-13-2006, 04:21 AM	#106
Kyoko-_** Special Jounin Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: On a little floating dot in a place called space... Age: 21 Posts: 2,036 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts	Everything about this thread is really disturbing... but I'll still write my opinion. This thread is not about us humans but about the immorality of aborting a baby human. It's just not right. And If a pregnant woman aborts her baby, she has some reasons. like for example... She can't afford to raise the baby. Or the baby, when it grows up and had a mind of its own, would probably be just too unfortunate because the family he/ she is born into is a poor one. The mother is just thinking of the baby's future. But it's still not right in choosing abortion as the only thing to do because the baby wouldn't have any future then, right? I also have to add... the baby doesn't feel any pain. He/ she still can't use his/ her undeveloped brain yet. I know... coz my mom tried abortion when I was just in her womb. she was really sorry for what she did. you know what happened? i was born blind. The good thing was... the family I was born into wsn't a t all poor or really needy. She was just afraid of the anger that gramps might express. Good thing was when I was 10, I got my eyes transplanted. i can now see. the world was really beautiful. it was totally different when I was still blind. I was just really lucky... Those babies that were killed... I'm really sorry for them... I'm sorry to you, too, guyz!!! I got so sentimental about the topic... Really sorry... sob __________________ ~ ... (">3<) Last edited by Kyoko-_; 01-13-2006 at 04:29 AM.

01-13-2006, 07:58 AM	#108
«Artos» Genin Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 67 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	There are NO good reasons other than rape to abort a baby, period. Cant support the baby? Adoption. Think the baby will have a bad future? Again adoption. Could die from giving birth? Those are the concequences of having underage sex. Since when was this about weather it should be law in the US? I could give a shit weather its a law. The law has no say in somthing like this. I dont care if the LAW says its ok to abort a baby. Sentience begins early after conception. It can move, think, and for the most part has a fully working nervous system. It CAN feel pain, and it DOES think. Theres nothing sentient about it. As for all these pro-abortionists. What would you do in that situation? __________________

01-13-2006, 09:03 AM	#112
«Artos» Genin Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 67 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Use the EDIT button! __________________

01-13-2006, 03:05 PM	#114
«Artos» Genin Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 67 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	More often then not, the mother dies AFTER birth. Babies life > Mothers, i think. A baby has a whole life ahead of it, while the mother may only have 20 - 30 years. Seems a selfish decision. __________________

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01-13-2006, 08:43 AM	#109
master mazaki Genin Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, UK Age: 22 Posts: 207 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	i perosnnal think its wrong to abort at any stage of a pregnancy!

01-13-2006, 08:44 AM	#110
master mazaki Genin Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, UK Age: 22 Posts: 207 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	unless it were by rape!!!

01-13-2006, 08:45 AM	#111
master mazaki Genin Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, UK Age: 22 Posts: 207 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	it would be very wrong to bring a child into the world to find out that it was concived by a force entry

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