Minatos Plan.... - Page 5 - Fandom Forums
Fandom Forums



Go Back   Fandom Forums > Anime & Manga > Naruto Series > Naruto Manga

Naruto Manga Talk about the manga series Naruto here! Remember, this is manga only. No anime!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-11-2011, 02:39 PM   #61
TokenSmoke
Probably Smarter Than You
 
TokenSmoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 68
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 21 Posts
TokenSmoke is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Minatos Plan....

Dude, Naruto is a fiction. There are no theories, just guesses at what might happen.

Not only are we in magical manga land where every physical science is violated repeatedly -- Kishi breaks his own rules all of the time and makes plot errors. This is not a world that makes sense, so let's not call our guesses theories and let's not dissect one another's imaginative musings using logical fallacies. Given Kishi's history, making mistakes in guessing might be more accurate...

All of these references to logical fallacies tickle me, but I think your time would be much better spent applying that scrutiny to some real science. You could probably get paid.

In the end you shouldn't be applying logical scrutiny to the structure of anybody's guesses unless you have found the premises and framework to be logically cogent in the first place. (Hint: in this manga, nothing ever makes sense. There is no reason or logic behind superpowers and ninja worlds, haha).

Anyways, keep enjoying the manga as you like, but I view this place as a fun discussion group about a nonsensical comic book. Calling guesses theories and getting flared up over lapses in logic concerning a manga that doesn't make sense in the first place is pretty dumb. In other words, you may judge KYF for his lack of logical rigor, but at least he's sharing in the manga with the rest of us. You seem to just enjoy picking fights, and your attempt to be high and mighty with some logical terms is definitely something I enjoyed laughing at (philosophy B.A.).

I realize that stupid guesses are annoying sometimes but there is no need to discourage discourse. Promoting good ideas is a far better technique than discouraging bad ones.
__________________
engage
TokenSmoke is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 11-11-2011, 04:16 PM   #62
stubborn_d0nkey
Kage
 
stubborn_d0nkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 23
Posts: 5,162
Thanks: 12,579
Thanked 3,903 Times in 2,129 Posts
stubborn_d0nkey is a jewel in the roughstubborn_d0nkey is a jewel in the roughstubborn_d0nkey is a jewel in the roughstubborn_d0nkey is a jewel in the roughstubborn_d0nkey is a jewel in the roughstubborn_d0nkey is a jewel in the rough
Re: Minatos Plan....

In need of a laugh? I have a way!

1. Read TotenSmoke's post (the first couple of lines will suffice - I couldn't be bothered to read more than 2)
2. Read TotenSmoke's custom user title.
__________________
I am THE stubborn_d0nkey, thou shalt not have other stubborn donkeys before me.

LIVE LONG AND PROSPER

Quotes for noobs (learn how to break up a quote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future
So you can post the second bit and i shouldnt be allowed to if i dont tell you? Why be so rude?

Anyways, here is a quotes for noobs guide


1. A basic quote

[*QUOTE][*/QUOTE]

(the * need to be removed for it to work, I put them in so you can see the text) is a basic quote that just wraps something in a quote without saying who quoted it who quoted so

[*QUOTE]this is a quote[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
this is a quote

Edit: there is a button for this, it looks like a speech bubble. If you select text and then press the button the selected text will automatically be wrapped with the quote tag


2. A quote that says who said it

[*QUOTE=who said it][*/QUOTE] this adds who said the post, manually putting that there can be useful when quoting something external. Example:

[*QUOTE=Mangastream]Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangastream
Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us
3. A quote that says who said it and links to the post where it was said

[*QUOTE=who said it;X][*/QUOTE]

Where X is the post number.

For the post that i originally quoted it would look like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]

That is what you get when you press the quote button.

4. Breaking up a quote

Now that you know how quotes work it all boils down to preference, how you want it to look like and how you want to do it.

One way of doing it is copying the latter part of the original quote [*/QUOTE] and then pasting it after each section you break up, write your reply, choose the text you want then paste it after that portion, repeat till you finish the go back and copy then paste the first part of the text at the beginning of each portion of text. Of course you can immediately copy and paste both parts of a poste so that you dont forget one in the end.

The end result would be something like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4



Which without any * would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4


Another way of doing it would be to cut and paste the second part of the quote tag after the first section of text you want to seperate then write your reply select the second part and hit he quote button (it looks like a text bubble),if you do that without anything else the end result would be

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4

Which would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4

To make it like the previous example (which wpuld be preferred, though not necessary ) copy the part that says who posted with the link to the post and paste it accordingly to the proper part in each first half of each quote tag. In my I would copy =minato uchiha;2118164 and paste it where the # is
[*QUOTE#] to get [*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] (of course with the * removed)


Of course you can use any other method you like to get to the end result, but now that you know what the end rwsult looks like I think there shouldnt be any problems

Last edited by stubborn_d0nkey; 11-11-2011 at 04:17 PM.
stubborn_d0nkey is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to stubborn_d0nkey For This Useful Post:
Gamabunta (11-11-2011), jts105 (11-14-2011), Numinous (11-11-2011), platinumrug (11-11-2011), xxMESTxx (11-11-2011)
Old 11-11-2011, 04:21 PM   #63
Numinous
Writing speed: snail
 
Numinous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Porto, Portugal
Posts: 4,783
Thanks: 8,386
Thanked 11,563 Times in 3,932 Posts
Numinous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Minatos Plan....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning View Post
i thought the "we'll save the flying thunder god for him" was a mistranslation or just kishi's oversight (much like the additional hand on rai) since tsunade was obviously talking about the mizukage and her water techs that can defeat madara's fire techs.
Perhaps Tsunade was talking about saving FTG for Kabuto or Tobi. It makes sense since she was talking about countering the enemies maneuvers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumrug View Post
You know, I almost feel bad for KYF. He comes in here, time after time posting his theories (mainly shitty, but there have been GEMS) and everyone jumps down his throat. Granted, sometimes they don't make much sense and he pulls out the bias hater card a little too often, but damn, let this man cook.
And we let him. I just hope he learns to cook someday. I mean, I think he'd be good for fiction if he at least started to include logic in his MO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TokenSmoke View Post
Dude, Naruto is a fiction. There are no theories, just guesses at what might happen.
There are no theories in the strict term, but in the colloquial term elaborate guesses are theories. But I digress

Quote:
Not only are we in magical manga land where every physical science is violated repeatedly -- Kishi breaks his own rules all of the time and makes plot errors. This is not a world that makes sense, so let's not call our guesses theories and let's not dissect one another's imaginative musings using logical fallacies. Given Kishi's history, making mistakes in guessing might be more accurate...
Sigh... everything outside of Suspension of Disbelief must follow logic, since Suspension of Disbelief is the very thing that breaks from the real world (in this case, chakra). That's because any work of fiction is based on our reality, therefore must conserve the majority of its properties for readers to relate to said fiction. That's why people hate plot holes and things of the sort, because they can detract the reader from the story.

Quote:
All of these references to logical fallacies tickle me, but I think your time would be much better spent applying that scrutiny to some real science. You could probably get paid.
Every argument can be scrutinized under logic, since logic is universal. Sorry if it tickles you, but that's how things work. You can't pretend to have a good case going for your guess/theory if it's supported upon logical fallacies.

Quote:
In the end you shouldn't be applying logical scrutiny to the structure of anybody's guesses unless you have found the premises and framework to be logically cogent in the first place. (Hint: in this manga, nothing ever makes sense. There is no reason or logic behind superpowers and ninja worlds, haha).
Anyways, keep enjoying the manga as you like, but I view this place as a fun discussion group about a nonsensical comic book. Calling guesses theories and getting flared up over lapses in logic concerning a manga that doesn't make sense in the first place is pretty dumb. In other words, you may judge KYF for his lack of logical rigor, but at least he's sharing in the manga with the rest of us. You seem to just enjoy picking fights, and your attempt to be high and mighty with some logical terms is definitely something I enjoyed laughing at (philosophy B.A.).
I just don't share your view. Yes, it's good to discuss and share our point of view, but saying horribly stupid things and pretending to be right is a big no no in my book. Be it a manga or a billion-selling novel, fiction can and should be analyzed but if you are pulling things out of your derrière while analyzing it, expect to be called upon your BS.

And if you're laughing at people appealing to logic, don't you think you're laughing for all the wrong reasons?

Quote:
I realize that stupid guesses are annoying sometimes but there is no need to discourage discourse. Promoting good ideas is a far better technique than discouraging bad ones.
And people here promote good ideas. Fan predictions and fan fiction are thanked and applauded. You just see more the bad ideas being discouraged because they seem to be more prevalent.
__________________
My writings and ramblings:

Water of Ocean Darkest Chapters: 1 - 2
Weaver Chapters: 0 - 1 - 2 - 3








Last edited by Numinous; 11-12-2011 at 06:17 AM.
Numinous is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Numinous For This Useful Post:
platinumrug (11-11-2011)
Old 11-11-2011, 06:05 PM   #64
xxMESTxx
EffYouSeeKay
 
xxMESTxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Mountains
Age: 22
Posts: 910
Thanks: 1,344
Thanked 606 Times in 300 Posts
xxMESTxx will become famous soon enoughxxMESTxx will become famous soon enoughxxMESTxx will become famous soon enough
Re: Minatos Plan....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TokenSmoke View Post
but I think your time would be much better spent applying that scrutiny to some real science.
That kind of scrutiny should be applied to everything. Not just science.
__________________


"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." -M. K. Gandhi
xxMESTxx is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to xxMESTxx For This Useful Post:
Gamabunta (11-11-2011), stubborn_d0nkey (11-12-2011)
Old 11-14-2011, 06:38 PM   #65
TokenSmoke
Probably Smarter Than You
 
TokenSmoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 68
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 21 Posts
TokenSmoke is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Minatos Plan....

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxMESTxx View Post
That kind of scrutiny should be applied to everything. Not just science.
Do you make 'theories' about care bears? No, some things just don't warrant scrutiny. On the spectrum of things that warrant scrutiny, Naruto is certainly closer to care bears than cell biology. It's just fun to talk about.

Why is it better to spend your time thinking about things in the domain of science over manga? I feel that it's pretty clear.
__________________
engage
TokenSmoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2011, 06:49 PM   #66
TokenSmoke
Probably Smarter Than You
 
TokenSmoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 68
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 21 Posts
TokenSmoke is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Minatos Plan....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post

There are no theories in the strict term, but in the colloquial term elaborate guesses are theories. But I digress

Sigh... everything outside of Suspension of Disbelief must follow logic, since Suspension of Disbelief is the very thing that breaks from the real world (in this case, chakra).

Every argument can be scrutinized under logic, since logic is universal. Sorry if it tickles you, but that's how things work.

I just don't share your view. Yes, it's good to discuss and share our point of view, but saying horribly stupid things and pretending to be right is a big no no in my book.

And if you're laughing at people appealing to logic, don't you think you're laughing for all the wrong reasons?
You think that's all that doesn't make any sense in this comic strip? It isn't just chakra. The plot has holes, matter is created out of nowhere, people fire magical powers from their mouths, hands... or whatever orifice... Given that ALL of those things are under suspension of disbelief, not much is left that really makes sense. Gravity? Nah, that one's out too. My point is: no, you're wrong. applying logic to this world makes as much sense as applying logic to alice in wonderland. Anything can happen, and frequently does, as soon as kishi decides to draw it. Making any sort of prediction is just a guess, not a theory. Invoking logical fallacies to show them why they're mistaken is using a shotgun to kill a fly.

Yeah, bozo ideas are annoying. So is quoting the back of a logic textbook in a manga forum.
__________________
engage
TokenSmoke is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TokenSmoke For This Useful Post:
Konnaha_yellow_flash (11-14-2011), pitch-a-palooza (11-14-2011)
Old 11-14-2011, 09:06 PM   #67
jts105
Eight-Tailed Jinchūriki
 
jts105's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Busy chilling w/big bro Raikage!
Posts: 365
Thanks: 616
Thanked 190 Times in 107 Posts
jts105 is on a distinguished road
Re: Minatos Plan....

Quote:
Originally Posted by stubborn_d0nkey View Post
In need of a laugh? I have a way!

1. Read TotenSmoke's post (the first couple of lines will suffice - I couldn't be bothered to read more than 2)
2. Read TotenSmoke's custom user title.
3. Then look at TotenSmoke's picture.
__________________

A total Killabeetard and PROUD OF IT! OH YEAH!
The awesome quotes of Killabee!
"I'm the only one who gets to interrupt me!"
"I've got energy to spare and sparkling charm. The eight tailed beast's a killerbee rockin the melody! OH YEAH!"
"I was right in the middle of an announcement, you stupid idiot!"
"I float... like a butterfly. And sting like a bee! 'Cause I'm the Eight-Tailed Beast!"
jts105 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2011, 09:33 PM   #68
xxMESTxx
EffYouSeeKay
 
xxMESTxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Mountains
Age: 22
Posts: 910
Thanks: 1,344
Thanked 606 Times in 300 Posts
xxMESTxx will become famous soon enoughxxMESTxx will become famous soon enoughxxMESTxx will become famous soon enough
Re: Minatos Plan....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TokenSmoke View Post
Do you make 'theories' about care bears?
No. That's also because I don't read or watch care bears.

Quote:
No, some things just don't warrant scrutiny.
Wow, bro. Did you completely ignore my last post? Everything warrants scrutiny. Do I need to elaborate on that for you?

Quote:
On the spectrum of things that warrant scrutiny
You mean everything?


Quote:
Naruto is certainly closer to care bears than cell biology.
Huh?? Smoke some more, bro.

Quote:
It's just fun to talk about.
Really? So if every naruto discussion that ever took place was completely one sided, and had no opposing point of view, and no critics, would it still be fun? We would have people running around saying completely stupid things, and everybody else agreeing with them.


Quote:
Why is it better to spend your time thinking about things in the domain of science over manga? I feel that it's pretty clear.
Uh we're all spending time thinking and posting about this manga.. That's what were doing, but every once in a while we get these little baby bitches in here, that cry about people posting their thoughts and opinions. Grow up.
__________________


"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." -M. K. Gandhi
xxMESTxx is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to xxMESTxx For This Useful Post:
Numinous (11-15-2011)
Old 11-14-2011, 10:14 PM   #69
Konnaha_yellow_flash
Kage
 
Konnaha_yellow_flash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 7,810
Thanks: 853
Thanked 2,439 Times in 1,577 Posts
Konnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to all
Re: Minatos Plan....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Guys, allow me:
I think everyone will figure out where those fallacies apply... but KYF. Oh well.
Lol, glad to see u went out of ur way to actually point out the fallacies. Oh wait, u didn't. U just made some baseless accusations yet again.

Quote:
:Minato sealed the kyuubi in naruto for a reason(even Jman recognized this).....http://www.mangareader.net/93-375-12...apter-370.html

:Minato recognizes that Madara is a threat to the world, will be a problem in the future and naruto will be the one to take care of him as the jinkchuricci to blaze the trail to the future...http://www.mangareader.net/93-55672-...apter-503.html
These are without a doubt not out of context in any way as u put in ur little category to which u failed to produce the correct context if it indeed were the case.. These were taken from the character spoken dialogue itself and in anyway not out of context u delusional freak!!!!

Why bitch at me about logic and context when u ur self thinks that the actual dialogue I quoted was out of context. HA!

Quote:
:Tsunade Implied that naruto would get to learn the FTG....http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/562/9
Tsunade did Imply naruto would learn the FTG jutsu by her reference to "we will save that for him" to which in the next panel naruto is shown.

This one is obvious IMO. UNless an awful mistranslation.

Quote:
:The spiritual energy of the kyuubi and the MS are the same as compared by the sensor ninja Karin... Sasuke power she sensed when he used the MShttp://www.mangareader.net/93-47597-...apter-484.html
The power of the kyuubi she sensed in naruto that was apparently Identical as the MS power, which sasuke was using...
#1...http://www.mangareader.net/93-49211-...apter-488.html
#2...http://www.mangareader.net/93-49211-...apter-488.html

The kyuubi compared his chakra with sasukes, but madaras as well which was said to be Identical....http://www.mangareader.net/93-314-6/...apter-309.html
These are the only two ify premises and only because I forgot to add two more.

Yes, the darkness of the chakra is whats compared, but its the darkness of the chakra that made it what it is.

:Karin says "its that really sasuke, that feels nothing like his normal chakra".
http://www.mangareader.net/93-44811-...apter-478.html
Meaning that sasukes hate chakra is completely different from his previous chakra. Its created a whole new chakra.
Look at the fact that sasuke has a dark sasanoo and itachi a red one.

And the kyuubis comment "a chakra even more sinister then my own. Not unlike Uchiha madara." The fact that the kyuubi would compare sasukes chakra with madaras and his own should say enough IMO since they were the only two to awaken the EMS.And EMS madara is the only one able to summon the kyuubi.

Mark my words, the SG and the kyuubi are linked and Im willing to bet that they share the same power that feeds and reacts to emotions.

I mean, does this not look familiar:
Naruto overtaken by the kyuubi through anger and ragehttp://www.mangareader.net/93-298-6/...apter-293.html
And then sasuke over takne by his MS with his own hate and ragehttp://www.mangareader.net/93-28731-...apter-460.html

Ill finish this argument tomorrow.

Quote:
:The FTG is the use of seals made with minatos blood that allows minatos to reverse summon himself to his seals...(its common knowledge but here....)http://imageshack.us/f/389/databookhnj6ir.jpg/
This is what the Databook says so how is this out of context?

Quote:
:The FTG is the only one of minatos jutsu that naruto hasn't learned and the last of his fathers jutsu he can use since he can't use the shiki fuujin jutsu.
Quote:
iii. Cherry picking
Occurs when someone chooses information that corroborates his/her argument while ignoring any information that contradicts it.
What contradicts this info? Naruto has learned all the known jutsu of his father except the FTG and shiki fuujin. However, the shiki fuujin jutsu can't be used by a Jinkchuricci which leaves only one logical jutsu....

I can't help but notice that u just catagorize allot of my premises then give no reason to even be in ur categories. No explanation of fallacy or contradiction. Just calling one thing another without any info to even support ur claims at all.

How about u explain why something belongs in ur category opposed to randomly accusing them without any support to back ur claims.
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
Konnaha_yellow_flash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2011, 04:42 AM   #70
Numinous
Writing speed: snail
 
Numinous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Porto, Portugal
Posts: 4,783
Thanks: 8,386
Thanked 11,563 Times in 3,932 Posts
Numinous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Minatos Plan....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TokenSmoke View Post
You think that's all that doesn't make any sense in this comic strip? It isn't just chakra. The plot has holes, matter is created out of nowhere, people fire magical powers from their mouths, hands... or whatever orifice... Given that ALL of those things are under suspension of disbelief, not much is left that really makes sense.
Fire burns. Water makes things wet. And so on, so on. Suspension of Disbelief only applies to chakra and humans (and other creatures) being able to harness and use it. The moment the jutsu is formed, it no longer falls under Suspension of Disbelief. That's why fans rightfully complain about Amaterasu's streak of uselessness or Jokey Boy meeting the stupid version of gold. Because when things don't behave like they should outside of Suspension of Disbelief, you can't just scoff the mistakes under said suspension, it's the author and/or executive's fault.

Quote:
Gravity? Nah, that one's out too.
How so? Gravity in Naruto seems to behave the same way as gravity in the real world (yes, even pushing, since Einsteinian physics count with gravitational pushes, unlike Newtonian physics that thought gravity could only pull).

Quote:
My point is: no, you're wrong. applying logic to this world makes as much sense as applying logic to alice in wonderland.
And this is where your costume title "probably smarter than you" stabs you in the back in a delightfully ironic way. Alice in Wonderland is considered Literary Nonsense, that is, a piece of fiction that is intended to break linguistic and logical conventions to tell a story, so duh, you can't apply logic to Alice in Wonderland because it is design to break logic to begin with.

Now Naruto falls under the Fantasy genre that, although it has various differences from the real world (Suspension of Disbelief), it isn't based on nonsense and has to be relatable to the readers, therefore there must be a solid common ground between our world and the fictional world, and that common ground does include logic.

Quote:
Anything can happen, and frequently does, as soon as kishi decides to draw it.
I noticed how you used your semantics quite nicely for my side of the argument because if you used for your side, it'd reveal its ugly rear.

Anything can happen, since Kishi is still writing it and, like everyone of us, he's not perfect and can commit mistakes. Now that does not mean in any respectable way that anything should happen, like you're trying to advocate.

Quote:
Invoking logical fallacies to show them why they're mistaken is using a shotgun to kill a fly.
That analogy makes no sense. They commit logical fallacies, the proportional response is to indicate the logical fallacies. I don't see how that is overkill, unless you're oversensitive. This is the Internet, grow a thicker skin.

Quote:
Yeah, bozo ideas are annoying. So is quoting the back of a logic textbook in a manga forum.
"Probably Smarter than you" is annoyed by logic. Oh, the irony!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
These are without a doubt not out of context in any way as u put in ur little category to which u failed to produce the correct context if it indeed were the case.. These were taken from the character spoken dialogue itself and in anyway not out of context u delusional freak!!!!

Why bitch at me about logic and context when u ur self thinks that the actual dialogue I quoted was out of context. HA!
Wow, calm down with the ad hominem and look at the context they're in and the context you want to put them.

The panels you provided are talking about Naruto being a Jinchuuriki and how it would aid him in defeating Tobi. The context you want to put them is that they were talking how everything is set for Naruto to learn FTG. As you can see, you're putting the quotes out of context.

Quote:
Tsunade did Imply naruto would learn the FTG jutsu by her reference to "we will save that for him" to which in the next panel naruto is shown.

This one is obvious IMO. UNless an awful mistranslation.
No, it's not a mistranslation, is rather you not paying attention to what's being said. Next time, read what's being said before so you can get the context.

Tsunade's lines were "Madara is still an Uchiha. We need a way to defeat his fire techniques. We'll save the Flying Thunder God Technique for him."

This indicates Tsunade is talking about strategies against their opponents, and FTG is one of them. She did not specify who was the target, but she's clearly talking about Kabuto/Tobi's side, not Naruto.

Quote:
These are the only two ify premises and only because I forgot to add two more.

Yes, the darkness of the chakra is whats compared, but its the darkness of the chakra that made it what it is.

:Karin says "its that really sasuke, that feels nothing like his normal chakra".
http://www.mangareader.net/93-44811-...apter-478.html
Meaning that sasukes hate chakra is completely different from his previous chakra. Its created a whole new chakra.
This is a rare time when a Sleepyfans translation is better than mangastream's.

She meant Sasuke doesn't feel the same as she knew him, not that he somehow was able to produce an entirely new chakra (which would be stupid, since in Narutoverse everyone has a chakra signature and if they could change that at will sensors would be obsolete).

Quote:
Look at the fact that sasuke has a dark sasanoo and itachi a red one.
Hummm... you do realize people have different chakra colors, right? Naruto has yellow chakra, Sasuke is purplish (if you go by volume covers), the Kyuubi is red, etc. So it's obvious Sasuke and Itachi's Susanoo have different colors, they're different people.

Quote:
And the kyuubis comment "a chakra even more sinister then my own. Not unlike Uchiha madara." The fact that the kyuubi would compare sasukes chakra with madaras and his own should say enough IMO since they were the only two to awaken the EMS.And EMS madara is the only one able to summon the kyuubi.

Mark my words, the SG and the kyuubi are linked and Im willing to bet that they share the same power that feeds and reacts to emotions.
Yes, they are linked since the Kyuubi was already victim of SG, but there's no evidence they are one and the same, unless you pull things out of context. Just like you did.

Quote:
I mean, does this not look familiar:
Naruto overtaken by the kyuubi through anger and ragehttp://www.mangareader.net/93-298-6/...apter-293.html
And then sasuke over takne by his MS with his own hate and ragehttp://www.mangareader.net/93-28731-...apter-460.html

Ill finish this argument tomorrow.
Hummm... I knew the name of what you're seeing... oh right, apophenia! We don't even know what the hell is in Sasuke's panel. To me, it looks a lot more like his second-stage Susanoo than the Kyuubi. Others might say it's a deformed version of the Juubi. Even others might say Glenn Beck. Sorry, but you can't extrapolate like that unless you have the certainty (that everyone but Kishi doesn't have) of what is in Sasuke's panel.

Quote:
This is what the Databook says so how is this out of context?
*Sigh*

"It is not comparable to the movement speed of Shunshin. The principle is similar to that of Kuchiyose."

This means FTG is not abnormally high speed, but rather bending of the time/space continnum, just like Kuchiyose. You somehow pulled it out of context and stated that FTG requires a blood seal (like Kuchiyose) to work where nowhere in the manga such is stated.

Oh wait, I now see I've misread what you said. You said it's common knowledge BUT in the databook? I think I'll stick to contextomy because at least you sound more intelligent committing said contextomy rather than what you're committing right now.

Quote:
What contradicts this info? Naruto has learned all the known jutsu of his father except the FTG and shiki fuujin. However, the shiki fuujin jutsu can't be used by a Jinkchuricci which leaves only one logical jutsu....
Minato also knew:
  • The Space/Time Barrier he used to redirect the Kyuubi's Bijuu Ball
  • Eight Trigrams Sealing Style
  • Four Symbols Seal
  • Keiyaku Fuuin (the seal he used to lock Tobi's ability to control the Kyuubi)
While you might be right on "that jutsu" being FTG, your criteria are flawed because just now I showed you 4 jutsu Minato knew and Naruto doesn't know (as far as we know)

Quote:
I can't help but notice that u just catagorize allot of my premises then give no reason to even be in ur categories. No explanation of fallacy or contradiction. Just calling one thing another without any info to even support ur claims at all.

How about u explain why something belongs in ur category opposed to randomly accusing them without any support to back ur claims.
I did what I did because I had the vain hope you actually realized where you committed said fallacies instead of me patronizing you to the answer, but nope, you're the same primadona that can't take no for an answer. Grow up.



EDIT: Only now I noticed the Care Bears talk. Well, Token Smoke, the Nostalgia Critic did not rip apart one Care Bears movie, nor two, but three. So... "probably smarter than you", meet irony for the third time.
__________________
My writings and ramblings:

Water of Ocean Darkest Chapters: 1 - 2
Weaver Chapters: 0 - 1 - 2 - 3








Last edited by Numinous; 11-15-2011 at 07:31 AM.
Numinous is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Numinous For This Useful Post:
Human Rasengan (11-16-2011), kael03 (11-15-2011), xxMESTxx (11-15-2011)
Old 11-15-2011, 05:48 PM   #71
Konnaha_yellow_flash
Kage
 
Konnaha_yellow_flash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 7,810
Thanks: 853
Thanked 2,439 Times in 1,577 Posts
Konnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to all
Re: Minatos Plan....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Wow, calm down with the ad hominem and look at the context they're in and the context you want to put them.

The panels you provided are talking about Naruto being a Jinchuuriki and how it would aid him in defeating Tobi. The context you want to put them is that they were talking how everything is set for Naruto to learn FTG. As you can see, you're putting the quotes out of context.
And thats what I wrote. "naruto will be the jinchurriki that blazes to the future". Minato putting faith in his son. In no way was I saying that meant minato was implying naruto would learn the FTG. Please show me where I could've suggested such a thing?
Only tsunade suggested that naruto will actually learn the FTG.

what other panel are u referring to? U put panels, but referenced only one....

Quote:
No, it's not a mistranslation, is rather you not paying attention to what's being said. Next time, read what's being said before so you can get the context.

Tsunade's lines were "Madara is still an Uchiha. We need a way to defeat his fire techniques. We'll save the Flying Thunder God Technique for him."

This indicates Tsunade is talking about strategies against their opponents, and FTG is one of them. She did not specify who was the target, but she's clearly talking about Kabuto/Tobi's side, not Naruto.
Lol, wait wait wait!!!

So, ur denying that tsunade was obviously not referring to naruto by clumping all the dialogue of the page together????? Ur suggesting that tsunade is so retarted she believes the FTG is needed to counter fire jutsu....

And I quote:"we will save the FTG for HIM" notice kishi bolded it..... And in the next panel who does it showhttp://www.mangareader.net/naruto/562/9
NARUTO!!!!
The context is obvious IMO. We will see soon won't we.

Quote:
This is a rare time when a Sleepyfans translation is better than mangastream's.
She meant Sasuke doesn't feel the same as she knew him, not that he somehow was able to produce an entirely new chakra (which would be stupid, since in Narutoverse everyone has a chakra signature and if they could change that at will sensors would be obsolete).
What evidence do u have that sleepyfans is the better translation?

Hell, even sleepy fans said this, Karin: "his chakras are different"
http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-460/15/

Not rare obviously... She meant that sasukes chakra was actually changing. Becoming a completely different chakra and thats how she knows people as a sensor. Through chakra.
Can't argue with the manga. Sasukes Hatred with the MS power gave sasuke a chakra darken then even curse seal chakra level 2. And don't tell me that sasukes chakra plus CS power didn't create a completely different chakra.

Quote:
Hummm... you do realize people have different chakra colors, right? Naruto has yellow chakra, Sasuke is purplish (if you go by volume covers), the Kyuubi is red, etc. So it's obvious Sasuke and Itachi's Susanoo have different colors, they're different people.
Sasukes chakra is dark, showing his hatred in his chakra and how its changed. Just as of now, sasuke has his and itachis MS power as one which is a whole new chakra as well.

Quote:
Yes, they are linked since the Kyuubi was already victim of SG, but there's no evidence they are one and the same, unless you pull things out of context. Just like you did.

Hummm... I knew the name of what you're seeing... oh right, apophenia! We don't even know what the hell is in Sasuke's panel. To me, it looks a lot more like his second-stage Susanoo than the Kyuubi. Others might say it's a deformed version of the Juubi. Even others might say Glenn Beck. Sorry, but you can't extrapolate like that unless you have the certainty (that everyone but Kishi doesn't have) of what is in Sasuke's panel.
Sasuke is shown in the clutches of his power due to his hatred and rage, just as narutos shows. We don't need to know exactly what that thing is because only one kind of power laches onto hate and takes over its uer. THE KYUUBIS POWER......http://www.mangareader.net/93-50180-...apter-490.html

The more sasuke hated the more powerful his chakra got and sasanoo grew. The same way the more naruto hated Oro for taking sasuke the more his power grew.

Denying a connection between the two powers at this point in the manga is ridiculous.

*Sigh*

Quote:
"It is not comparable to the movement speed of Shunshin. The principle is similar to that of Kuchiyose."

This means FTG is not abnormally high speed, but rather bending of the time/space continnum, just like Kuchiyose. You somehow pulled it out of context and stated that FTG requires a blood seal (like Kuchiyose) to work where nowhere in the manga such is stated.
Look at the damn kunaihttp://www.mangareader.net/93-55464-...apter-502.html
look at the jutsu shiki on madaras back. Theres blood present yet the tobi body doesn't bleed so that means its minatoshttp://www.mangareader.net/93-55672-...apter-503.html

:With blood contracts being what allows for summonings...

:And blood needed to summon

:Its most likely blood is what the shiki/seal is made of on the enemy and on the kunai as well since the jutsu is a form of summoning. obviously reverse summoning.

Quote:
Oh wait, I now see I've misread what you said. You said it's common knowledge BUT in the databook? I think I'll stick to contextomy because at least you sound more intelligent committing said contextomy rather than what you're committing right now.
It should be common knowledge that the jutsu shiki/seal on the kunai and whats placed on the enemy is how he transports himself.

Quote:
Minato also knew:
  • The Space/Time Barrier he used to redirect the Kyuubi's Bijuu Ball
  • Eight Trigrams Sealing Style
  • Four Symbols Seal
  • Keiyaku Fuuin (the seal he used to lock Tobi's ability to control the Kyuubi)
While you might be right on "that jutsu" being FTG, your criteria are flawed because just now I showed you 4 jutsu Minato knew and Naruto doesn't know (as far as we know)
All is seals, which the FTG uses. So mastering seals will be a requirement for mastering the FTG dont' ya thunked.....

Quote:
I did what I did because I had the vain hope you actually realized where you committed said fallacies instead of me patronizing you to the answer, but nope, you're the same primadona that can't take no for an answer. Grow up.
No, u made claims u were not willing to back up. The so called fallacies u spoke of were not pointed out, merely context errors to which there was only one with the DB info on the FTG.
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
Konnaha_yellow_flash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2011, 06:08 PM   #72
Numinous
Writing speed: snail
 
Numinous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Porto, Portugal
Posts: 4,783
Thanks: 8,386
Thanked 11,563 Times in 3,932 Posts
Numinous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Minatos Plan....

Sorry, AOTK, but I'll paraphrase one of your lines.

You know, I could try to have an intelligent refuting post about the validity of the points presented, but I know KYF would just derail it into his usual rant about how I'm intentionally blind to what is "obvious" and haters.

Do you really believe what you write, KYF? I mean, really?!
__________________
My writings and ramblings:

Water of Ocean Darkest Chapters: 1 - 2
Weaver Chapters: 0 - 1 - 2 - 3







Numinous is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Numinous For This Useful Post:
kael03 (11-15-2011), xxMESTxx (11-15-2011)
Old 11-15-2011, 06:17 PM   #73
Konnaha_yellow_flash
Kage
 
Konnaha_yellow_flash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 7,810
Thanks: 853
Thanked 2,439 Times in 1,577 Posts
Konnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to allKonnaha_yellow_flash is a name known to all
Re: Minatos Plan....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numinous View Post
Sorry, AOTK, but I'll paraphrase one of your lines.

You know, I could try to have an intelligent refuting post about the validity of the points presented, but I know KYF would just derail it into his usual rant about how I'm intentionally blind to what is "obvious" and haters.

Do you really believe what you write, KYF? I mean, really?!
U made me reply to that heaping pile of a repost that was ungodly long and u give me this....

With no use of "haters" or "being blind" it looks like u just need to make a random BS mouth fart off topic because u can't disprove a thing I said in my last post. U can just take the low road and scurry off without so much as replying to even one of my points.
__________________
KNOWLEDGE TO LIVE BY...

No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


ITACHI UCHIHA
Konnaha_yellow_flash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2011, 06:20 PM   #74
Spiegel
Pirate King
 
Spiegel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grand Line (New World)
Age: 26
Posts: 5,093
Thanks: 1,108
Thanked 1,770 Times in 928 Posts
Spiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to allSpiegel is a name known to all
Re: Minatos Plan....

walls of fucking text in every thread. Naruto isn't that complicated -_____-

This is why I don't walk into this section much. Maybe once or twice a week.
__________________
“Pirates are evil? The Marines are righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!”
― Donquixote Doflamingo
*Ex-Kakashi87*
Spiegel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2011, 06:23 PM   #75
Numinous
Writing speed: snail
 
Numinous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Porto, Portugal
Posts: 4,783
Thanks: 8,386
Thanked 11,563 Times in 3,932 Posts
Numinous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of lightNuminous is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Minatos Plan....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
With no use of "haters" or "being blind" it looks like u just need to make a random BS mouth fart off topic because u can't disprove a thing I said in my last post. U can just take the low road and scurry off without so much as replying to even one of my points.
Quote:
iii. Argument from silence
Occurs when someone assumes the silence of others means the argument s/he made is irrefutable. Most of times, the other person just doesn’t know how to overcome the sheer stupidity of the argument being made.
Ain't I a stinker?
__________________
My writings and ramblings:

Water of Ocean Darkest Chapters: 1 - 2
Weaver Chapters: 0 - 1 - 2 - 3







Numinous is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Numinous For This Useful Post:
kael03 (11-15-2011)
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Idea By Stubborn Donkey..Minato's Plan jericho Uzimaki Naruto Manga 18 01-07-2011 04:32 PM
HomePlanSoft Home Plan Pro 5.2.23.8 tungnguyen.tk Graphics Design 0 07-01-2010 08:05 AM
HomePlanSoft Home Plan Pro 5.2.23.8 tungnguyen.tk Computers 0 06-27-2010 02:34 AM
so what is akatsukis plan now?!?! freedom07 Naruto Manga 17 05-30-2009 01:05 PM
What kind of plan do you think Shikamaru has? The Darkness Naruto Manga 5 01-02-2007 07:01 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.