DarkAztek

A) You know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about. You cannot win a debate by stating blatant falsehoods, massive generalizations, and religious rhetoric. Try to combat people with facts... Or else I might just get medieval on your ass. (That quote you mentioned about bliss... Something tells me that you are an extremely happy person.)

B) Even if it were true that homosexuality is a sin in all religions, then you still could not forbid gay marriages. (And by the way, there are MANY religions that DO allow gay marriage and do not believe homosexuality is a sin.) Homosexuality does not harm any person in any way, shape, or form (other than homophobic reactions to gay people). We have a Separation Between Church and State and to make laws based heavily upon religious principles alone is nothing more than shit. It won't get you anywhere. Why shouldn't it be allowed outside of religious morals?

C) There is NO SUCH THING as "basic human morals." Morality is subjective, no matter how you look at it. To argue otherwise is to be ignorant of facts.

D) Gay and lesbians are creating walls in peace? It seems to me that it is you who have the big ass problem with them. As far as I can see, gay people are trying for universal acceptance of people. They are fighting for rights of the people that are mistreated. How exactly is that fighting against peace again?

You don't want peace. You want everything to be the same. That's what we like to call a distopia. Additionally, if you truly believed in religion, you'd know what Jesus said: "Love thy enemy."

__________________
[CENTER]
Nam Myōhō Renge Kyō[/CENTER]
[CENTER]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/HookerBodyShots/shark.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[center][b]Filler content[/b][/center]

Corbenk

EDIT: DA posted his post while I was typing mine, however, do not disregard it as spam or the same thing over again.
[QUOTE=Hatori_Heiji;725064] I never said you were for it


Human morals are created and followed by individuals. One's morals do not and should not apply to the entire race. I am not sure being gay is a choice. Did you decide to like some one? I actually remember I once convinced myself that I liked a girl, how ever, I knew that I really did not. Love is not something that you can decide to have. But even if it is a choice, are you saying that because you and others find it unacceptable it should be eradicated? How is that any different than saying "I think jews are evil and should be eliminated". It does not mean you have to kill any one, but suppressing others thoughts to match your own is what we call fascism. Ever heard of Joseph Stalin? He was a fascist and suppressed everyone's (under his power) thoughts. He also did this thing called "the great purge" but we wont get into that now.

No problem, I am bisexual so I get this a lot. (or I would if it ever came up in a conversation, now before you say IK am prejudice, my friends are more or less against anything to do with bisexuality or homosexuality)

How is feeling affection for another person building walls. It is people like you that build the walls. Gay people do not hate straight people. It is you people who are being unfair. Gays do not petition to end different sex marriage, gays do not consider heterosexuality to be a sin or to be wrong. (at least, none that I have met) They accept your sexual preference.

Fubukimaru Yukishimo

Just a little thing, could you refrain from using urban terms such as "smack". You could have said "Why would I be speaking out against it?" Sorry, just a little pet peeve of mine when people try and use urban terms in an intellectual conversation.

__________________

Take the Naruto character test!

Hatori_Heiji

no not peace in general. thats taking it out of proportion. Not ALL peace but more so the peace towards others. like neibors and friends. not problems of the world. THIS whole thing is what is going on in the world today "RELATIVISM". and so is the thinking of everyone in the world today. dont say im wrong on that, im right. you know how I know that for a fact is that we are at war with other countries. the gas prices continue to rise and and there is no stop to the worlds problems. the whole world thinks relativiticaly.

And really if there are no human morals than I guess killing is an ok thing to do right?! See thats relativism. its thinking whats right and whats wrong in your own mind and then making it right or wrong.

and ok im sorry for using the word smack Ill try harder not to use it. IN MY LAST WORDS ON THIS TOPIC all I have to say is, The topic of gay/lesbians is not whether or not they are right or wrong in doing what they are doing (same sex marriges). But whether or not it is right in human nature to do so. and if its right in human nature to marry someone of the same sex then, this world, the world that we live in. Is really going to die very very soon. I cant figure out what in the world would drive someone to marry someone of the same sex. But it IS a sin and really soon this world is going to die off. not physically but spiritually and morally. really turn on the news and watch what goes on. I gaurentee you that half the reports are killings and murders and all that sort of crime. We are turning our world in to something that is slowly dying in its own curruptions. and we ourselves are going to pay for it in the end. The world I once knew is dying and there is nothing I can do to stop it.

Fubukimaru Yukishimo

If a person is gay and this disturbs the peace with their neighbor, it means the neighbor is close-minded and biased.

__________________

Take the Naruto character test!

Hatori_Heiji

if thats true than that must also mean that that person finds it wrong to do that thing, right? well why would they find it to be wrong in the first place? iun other words, judging that they are biased and close minded on the subject of gay marrages. why would that person find gay marriges to be wrong? what is it inside of us that finds it to be wrong? I dont know, do you? and if some people find it to be wrong and some people find it to be right then doesnt that mean that both of them are being baised in their own way? besides how can something so abnormal as gay marrige be concidered normal. because everyone found in abnormal till about 5-6 years ago. what changed everyones minds? I really have no clue on what did.



p.s. yes im well aware I had said I was going to stop posting in here. but there is nothing else to do.

Corbenk

How do gay people displace this? It because they are different? well then, I suppose everything that I dislike is disturbing the peace.

You misunderstand, we are saying there are no definitave morals. The idea of morals is based on opinion and opinion is based each persons preference. Thus, there are no definate morals. Just as there is no definition of right nor wrong. Morals are different for each person. What one may consider to be right another may consider to be wrong.

Is really going to die very very soon. I cant figure out what in the world would drive someone to marry someone of the same sex. But it IS a sin and really soon this world is going to die off. not physically but spiritually and morally. really turn on the news and watch what goes on. I gaurentee you that half the reports are killings and murders and all that sort of crime. We are turning our world in to something that is slowly dying in its own curruptions. and we ourselves are going to pay for it in the end. The world I once knew is dying and there is nothing I can do to stop it.[/QUOTE]


No, just because you see something to be immoral does not mean it is. I know this is not as much as you wrote but your logic is so flawed. You seem to thing what you believe is the one and only truth. It is impossible to debate with obdurate people such as yourself.

Maybe they got their heads out of their asses and stopped living in such ridiculous ignorance.

Fubukimaru Yukishimo

They would find it wrong because originally homosexuality was "wrong". The reason it changed is because as time passes, we slowly become more accepting and smarter. Soon, there will hopefully be a time where everyone is accepting of everyone else. Excluding people based on their orientation is unfair and unjust.

__________________

Take the Naruto character test!

Miburo

Might want to stick to your word and not say anything else regarding your opinion on this topic. Ever again. : )

But before you do, please humor me and back up anything you said in regards to 'the world is going to end' because some people who aren't you are engaging in same sex relationships. I can't imagine what kind of messed up thought process that led you to this humorous conclusion.

People tend to be dumbasses at times. They tend to dislike things and people that are different. Really, they've got no logical reasons to feel this way. It's no different than people being racist, or sexist. It's no different at all. I don't suppose you support racism, do you? If not, they why discriminate against homosexuals?

People 'changed their minds' for the same reasons they stopped discriminating against women and minorities: Like Corbenk said, they realized they're being ignorant morons and decided to call it quits.

Hatori_Heiji

is it really my wrong thinking or is it everyone elses. we will never be able to tell because we all have our different thoughts about things. so as far as I see. there is no end to this topic. And I dont see flaming other people as a very mature way to deal with your anger. it settles nothing and means nothing. This topic is an ongoing crap load of opinionated arguments. END OF STORY. really it is. nothing more, nothing less.

no I dont support racism. and no I dont support homo's. neither deserves support. they are both created by mans flawed ideas and opinions, such as the majority of the responses in this topic. Including my own. everyone is driven by their opinion, it is in human nature to stand up for what you believe in. its inevitable. and so in lies the problem. that problem being that the topic of this forum can not be concluded in whether or not it is right or wrong because nobody is willing to agree on 1 solid yes or no answer due to our opinionated thoughts. So I see no further point in argueing a topic in which people can not settle on 1 difinitive answer. In other words it is impossible to have everyone believe in the same opinion because, we all believe in our own different opinions.

Corbenk

He never flamed you.

All arguments are based on opinions, all thoughts are based on opinions. It is impossible to have a debate without opinions. Opinions ARE NOT bad. Without opinions we would be like "Maybe".

Hatori_Heiji

yeah his comments were towards me in a rude fashon. and yes opinions are no bad. Im just saying with the opinions I see that all of us have. there is no way to settle this debate with a yes or no answer. thats all. anyay. I kinda think this topic is kinda old now. so im moving on to bigger and better things that arguing over opinions. it really tiring and its very pointless. and offenses to anyone durring this topic by myself I appologize to, if any.

DarkAztek

Mod Note:

Hatori_Heiji, English is obviously not your native language. It is quite unclear to me, and, I assume, most of the other people in NL, what you are trying to say. You clearly state certain things and then get upset that we are misinterpreting them. Then please, be more specific or check your grammar before you post. This might help you try and debate.



As for me... I'm done posting in here in response to what you say. I know that you are too set in your ways to sway and everyone else is doing an okay job without me. I'll continue my debate with you in PM, however.

But you are wrong when you say it is pointless to debate over opinions. On the contrary, it is VERY important to discuss these topics. How else can we change each others opinions? How else can anyone learn? If you go your whole life thinking that the world is flat, you will never find the truth without someone telling you that you are wrong.

__________________
[CENTER]
Nam Myōhō Renge Kyō[/CENTER]
[CENTER]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/HookerBodyShots/shark.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[center][b]Filler content[/b][/center]

Miburo

First off, I never made any personal attacks towards you. I found your opinion on the matter to be rather ridiculous and asked you to support it so that maybe I could better understand where you're coming from.

Secondly, no, not every argument is based on illogical opinions. For example, here are some facts that support my argument:

Fact: People engaging in homosexual relationships doesn't effect heterosexuals in any negative way. How can two people (when neither one is you) having a homosexual relationship effect you in any way that differs from two heterosexuals engaging in a relationship? It can't, I assure you.

Fact: There's no data anywhere that'll show people just being homosexual causing any sort of increase in crime, murder, whatever. Are there hate crimes commited against gays? Yeah, just like there's crimes committed out of hate of minorities. You can't blame the victim for these types of crimes though. You certainly have no reason to make statements like 'the world is ending because of homosexuals, or the acceptance of homosexuals'.

I promise you that you'll be unable to refute any of these facts. They're what support my argument, what facts support yours?

Hating someone for being homosexual is the same as hating someone for being of a different skin color or gender; there's no justification for it what-so-ever.

And there is a definite answer: Homosexuals don't deserve to be denied any rights granted to heterosexuals. There's absolutely zero logical justifications to descriminate against homosexuals in any way. If you disagree, you're either ignorant of the facts or just not too bright. Yes, that's my opinion. But it's an opinion that I can justify using simple to understand facts. I promise you that you can't provide a counter-argument towards my opinion that I couldn't crush without using even an ounce of effort. Not trying to be cocky, that's just how confident I am in the correctness of my stance concerning this matter. : )

Hatori_Heiji

most importantly people and this IS my very last post because there is one thing you can not go againsed is this fact. It is in our CONSTITUTION. "The Federal Marriage Amendment is a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution which would define marriage in the United States as a union of one man and one woman". there is no going againsed it. and bush is going agaised it by banning gay marriage. I feel this is one of the many reasons people do not like bush. No dont get me wrong im not saying any of you dont. im just done if it goes againsed our constitution. it doesnt matter what any of us think IT IS WRONG.